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  1. clarise

    clarise Precious princess Banned!

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    Maybe a gun or two in the room might have helped. I tend to doubt it. Not without combat training. One of the problems with guns is that they are so often taken and turned on their owners.

    But I do know this: the POSSIBILITY of guns in the vicinity might have made the psycho think twice about going in there in the first place. They say Dylan Roof at first wanted to hit a school, but he knew they were guarded and chose that church instead. This GUN FREE ZONE bullshit has to end.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #61
  2. ace's n 8's

    ace's n 8's Porn Star

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    #62
  3. deviousdave

    deviousdave Title request rejected

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    There's an epidemic of violence, but it isn't a result of guns. Look where the gun crime is in the US, it's predominantly in the places with the strictest controls and laws. The places which have the most guns per capita have by far the lowest amount of gun violence.

    What people do is they look outside the US, then point a finger at the UK and say "look, nobody there can buy guns, that's why they aren't shooting people left right and centre. We have guns, we are killing people left right and centre, therefore it must be the guns, let's get rid of them." But that would be completely ignorant of the fact that the UK has never had a gun problem. Even when practically all guns were completely legal, gun violence in the UK was still NEVER a thing. It also ignores the fact in a country like Switzerland all males age 18-34 are issued with an assault rifle and a pistol in case they need to be drafted. As a result, Switzerland has roughly 1 gun per every 2 people, which isn't as high as the US, but it's 8x as many guns per capita as the UK. Yet Switzerland is probably the safest country in the world in which to live.

    The US is typically unfavourably compared to western Europe. But the US is not Europe, it does not have the same demographics, it does not have the same history or culture. Comparing the US to Europe, and concluding it's the difference in gun law that explains the difference in gun violence completely ignores a hundred other countries which do have very strict, European style gun laws, yet, have vast amounts more gun violence and murder than the US. Why is it that central America, and South America are ignored when making such comparisons? Places like El Salvador and Honduras have strict restrictions on guns, and people there are killing each other at a different order of magnitude to the US.

    I'm not going to say I can explain the actual cause of the violence, but let's take a look at some candidates.

    First off, DistantLover aside, no one likes to talk about race. It's no secret that blacks in the US make up 13% of the population yet account for 53% of murders. DL likes to think it's genetic, and based on inherent violent tendencies, and lack of intelligence. I don't subscribe to any of those positions. What is crystal clear is the breakdown of the family unit, and regardless of race, this is the leading cause of people getting involved in either drugs or crime. Families where no male role model is present leads to a significant rise in the likelihood of a male child going down a path of a life of crime. What is also true that if you plot the rate of single mothers across the races, through blacks, latinos, whites and asians, you will see that it matches up very accurately with the rate of crime between the races. This to me sees like a far more likely cause than any inherent racial violent tendencies, which if anything can be refuted by the fact the majority of black people are good honest people, which would not be the case if they were somehow "inferior".

    Okay next up, let's look at the typical 'nut job', high school massacre style shootings, not your average gang banger shit. What's clear is here the perpetrator is nearly always white, with a few exceptions like Vester Flanagan and Seung-Hui Cho. And they are almost always male. So what's the thing they nearly all have in common? Well typically they never have a girlfriend. You know that if all of these murderous scum bags had some hottie waiting at home for them they would not be out on these suicidal murderous rampages. I'm not blaming women, I can see very clearly why women stay away from such people, and that's because they are life's losers. America and the American dream is all about instilling in people the belief that you can be anything you want to be, and there is a lot of social pressure, particularly in white families for you to go to college and live up to those expectations. If you're some washed up loser, a nobody, no friends, in a giant country, when those around you are happy and succeeding, and you can't understand why you are a fucking failure, that is going to lead to animosity. Throw in some bullying, constant advertisement for self medication, access to weapons, and 24 hour news showing the amount of attention mass murders get, is an unhealthy combination. No one ever remembers the names of the victims, but the perpetrators go down in history, they get their place on the wall, they get their wikipedia page, they get their "don't fuck with me" moment, and they get their revenge against the society that let them become failures.
    Britain is different, you basically get it drilled into you that you will never live up to anything, be sceptical of happiness, and know your place in society. Government will be there for you to leach off if things inevitably go badly, and you can always blame your problems on those in the class of society above you. As a result we are a people with low expectations, so if things are going shitty, no need to go on a killing spree, this is just the way things are, conversely, if things are going well, that's just an incredible bonus. Black people in America know this kind of upbringing. The country is racist, expect things to be harder for you every step of the way, as a result people have lower expectations of you, and low and behold, the blacks aren't the ones going on massacres at schools.


    Now I'm not saying my two explanations for the two very different types of gun crime are infallible, in fact they are likely wrong, but I just thought I would offer my two cents. What is certainly true though is you can't square the blame for these crimes on guns, the statistical evidence is too overwhelming for it to be the case.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
    1. mlc101n
      Very well said, most interesting take on this I've read. Thanks for your insight
       
      mlc101n, Oct 3, 2015
      ace's n 8's and clarise like this.
    #63
  4. clarise

    clarise Precious princess Banned!

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    In a post above I called it "pressure."

    Didn't express the idea as eloquently as DeviousDave.

    Part of the pressure comes from resentment. We are barraged by images of what it means to be successful. Most of us don't achieve it and constantly wonder whether there is something wrong with us, since so many are winning and we are not. Meanwhile we have a pervasive trend of "failing up." Connected people or people in officially anointed victim classes always seem to achieve distinction, promotions, office, power, no matter how egregious their failures. People with no qualifications whatsoever achieve power. Fools and idiots achieve power. We have theories as to why. We think it is affirmative action. Or we think it is pull. Or connectedness.

    We are not the most corrupt place on earth, far from it, but we are corrupt enough. This, combined with our freedoms, and the expectations for success, contribute to the pressure.

    Another big problem is that we have this myth of the "melting pot." A nation of immigrants. But myth is all it is. The melting pot is broken. People are flooding the country as never before, but it is different now. They are not coming to be Americans. They are not coming to assimilate. Unlike Sweden, unlike Norway, unlike Switzerland, and even unlike England, we as a people are surrounded by strangers. And our distrust of them is not irrational xenophobia. It is well-founded, because an unfortunate fact is that the newcomers to this country disproportionately commit the violent crime. But over and above the stats, the hard simple fact is that they don't want to a part of the American experience. They are here, because we are marks.

    Another problem is the endemic ignorance, as to the difference between rights and liberties. The definitions for fairness and equality. The idea behind America is that it is a place that provides equal opportunity to succeed. But that idea has been diluted over the generations to the point now where it means that everyone should be afforded the same standard of living, regardless of their effort. This redefinition of equality comes from the very top, and it has become pervasive.

    Nearby I suggested that mandatory military service might help. I really believe that. To most Americans, the mere notion is unimaginable. The pleasure principle. The pursuit of happiness. Pacification is peace, and peace is happiness. Achieve peace by eliminating aggression. Emasculation Desensitization.

    The most popular solution? Not mandatory military service. Oh, no. Only the crazies mention it! ;) No, the most popular idea is to confiscate all the guns. Eliminate aggression. Pacification. Peace.

    There is most likely no escape from the cycle. Pressure sums it up. We are living in a civilization that is declining. How can we not expect to feel it, as we live it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    1. mlc101n
      Another very interesting and ( to me ) relatable theory. I too have for a while believed that immigrants have come to this country not to live the American dream, to blend but to take advantage of. And not only here, its a familiar site to see enclaves of nationalities, not interested at all of accumulating but rather establishing their respective culture and expanding it. Sorry if fell of the thread a bit.
       
      mlc101n, Oct 3, 2015
    #64
  5. cumhubby

    cumhubby Sex Lover

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    If making guns illegal would work....thwn so would making crystal meth illegal. Oh wait...crystal meth IS illegal....yet people still get it. Hmmmm darn bad guys going around the law to get what they want...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #65
  6. clarise

    clarise Precious princess Banned!

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    I don't know how to respond to comments, so this is a response on mlc101n's comment to my post #64.

    I agree with everything he says. But I just want to make clear that when I bring up immigrants in that post I am not suggesting that they are responsible for the mass shootings. As others have pointed out, the nuts who are shooting up schools and churches are almost always young white male losers.

    I am only saying that immigration contributes to the pressure. That is all.

    And one more clarification: by and large I would say it is the illegal immigrants, for the most part, who are not here to assimilate. The LEGAL immigrants who stand in line, acquire legal work permits, and participate actively in the economy are here to assimilate, and in my view we need to speed up the line and we should have more of them.

    But sadly, even the legal immigrants-- which personally I am all for-- do exert stress and foster resentment. Too many jobs have dried up. 90 million working age adults have exited the labor force and aren't even counted among the unemployed. That's a lot of animus.
     
    1. anon_de_plume
      There's a link with the word 'comment'... I would think someone who claims to be a programmer would be intelligent enough to see these changes.
       
      anon_de_plume, Oct 4, 2015
    #66
  7. clarise

    clarise Precious princess Banned!

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    Sweet and courteous help from Anon de Plume:

    First of all smarty-pants, Comment itself doesn't work for me, because I have Javascript disabled. I can't even see the text editor. Presently I'm typing in an ordinary HTML TextArea, and I have to do bold and italic with BBCODE tags.

    Second of all doofus, one can comment a thread, but one can neither comment nor quote a comment. The comments form a linear (unthreaded) chain.

    But you and DL are right, I'm a fraud with a useless poetry degree and it's only fair because my books suck and I don't deserve to be in the one percent and besides it wouldn't be fair to Microsoft programmers who only average $159,666 per year or whatever.

    Thanks so much for your help.
     
    #67