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  1. #51
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    Sorry Angel i thought that would quote yours and Eric's bit but it only quoted yours. Was not a reaction to yours alone but the whole topic really. FJ
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer Joe View Post
    As someone who works with hundreds of kids on a daily basis ifirst have to say i consider myself far from an expert. However i have spoken to and dealt with kids who are victims of all manner of abuse. Various substances, emotional, physical and sexual. While it breaks my heart and i do all i can to help remove them from harmful situations i beleive that prevention as far as offenders are concerned is to the most part up to themselves. Sure they can get help when they admit to having a problem but until then they are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off (offend) and i do not beleive reading 1 story or 1 hundred will impact on that.

    Are we going to remove all violence from stories?
    Are we going to remove all alcohol consumption?
    All manipulation and yelling?

    Just my thoughts FJ
    Alright FJ well I'm amazed you're in a condition to have this debate lol but if you wanna play the thin end of the wedge card let me go back to this question:
    What about baby rape stories? Written let's say in a way that advocates it as being great fun and feeling sooo good. Publish? Or not?
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer Joe View Post
    Sorry Angel i thought that would quote yours and Eric's bit but it only quoted yours. Was not a reaction to yours alone but the whole topic really. FJ
    No worries Joe I can have a debate without going to war
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  4. #54
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    Since I'm a writer of underage stories, I figure I should probably weigh in here.

    First, we need to make a distinction between adolescents and children in stories. There's nothing magical about the age 18 that makes a girl suddenly sexy when she was completely asexual before. In certain times in history and in some cultures, if a girl is unmarried by the time she's 18, she's considered an old maid. Anthropologically speaking, puberty is really the minimum line to draw for when a girl can be considered sexy. So I think it's perfectly normal for a healthy, heterosexual man to occasionally look at a 16 year old girl, or even occasionally younger, and think she's attractive.

    On the other hand, the same thing cannot be said about a girl who's 6. There is something different and wrong about a man who is sexually attracted to a 6-year-old.

    I would not, however, condemn someone for their desires. It's their actions that count. What differentiates us from animals is our ability to deny our instincts and urges. We, of all the creatures on the earth, can make a conscious choice. We don't lock up a person for wanting to commit murder; we lock them up for acting on that desire. Likewise, we shouldn't punish a man for being a pedophile; but we should certainly punish him for acting on those tendencies. Those are the true monsters and I support maximum penalties for that.

    That brings us back to the stories. First, I don't think there should be any rules against stories about adolescents, because, frankly, there's nothing wrong with being turned on by that. It's perfectly natural, as long as it doesn't become an obsession.

    When the characters are even younger, i.e. prepubescent, it becomes a gray area. There seem to be 3 schools of thought on that:

    1. Underage stories encourage people to become pedophiles and/or act out those tendencies on real children.

    2. Underage stories have no effect on people one way or the other.

    3. Underage stories provide a safe outlet for satisfying the fantasies of pedophiles.

    I would guess that there's probably a mixture of all 3. There are probably some people who fall into each category. The problem is that without hard numbers to back these up, any opinion we give is just a guess. My personal opinion is that #2 is the most common, then #3, then #1. Which means that allowing those stories on sites like this is a net benefit to society. I'm perfectly willing to be persuaded otherwise, but with all due respect to snowleopard3200, it will take more than hot tempers or passionate pleas. I will accept nothing less than actual studies and statistics.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Okay Eric I respect your opinion. I see it as a continuous thing, is the difference between us - I think there are always some people on the threshold of being active paedophiles, and any form of approval and encouragement can tip them over. In the same way that many people think 13 years old is OK, a bit fewer 12, fewer again 11, fewer 10 and so on and so on.

    But anyway...I'm not gonna change your mind I know so everyone can read what we've said and make up their minds .
    This is the stumbling block for me Angel.....The threshold of being an active paedophile....
    That person is a paedophile, he just hasn'r comsummated the act...Regardless of what he does or doesnt read, he will become one.
    It could be the oppurtunity of approaching a child when its all right.
    It could be a programme
    a book
    a magazine
    a picture
    a child saying hello
    a laugh
    a news item
    It could be anything or nothing
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotsmitch2001 View Post
    This is the stumbling block for me Angel.....The threshold of being an active paedophile....
    That person is a paedophile, he just hasn'r comsummated the act...Regardless of what he does or doesnt read, he will become one.
    It could be the oppurtunity of approaching a child when its all right.
    It could be a programme
    a book
    a magazine
    a picture
    a child saying hello
    a laugh
    a news item
    It could be anything or nothing
    The way I see it Mitch is that in every way I can think of people are shades of grey. Take anything - 'kind' 'tall' 'clever' 'sexy' whatever - there's a continuous progression: if you lined up the population of the world there'd always be people who are 'almost', 'slightly' 'very' and so on.

    So with 'paedophile' how likely is it that in that ONE way people are suddenly in two totally different groups that don't have people in between? I don't think it can be like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddycums View Post
    Since I'm a writer of underage stories, I figure I should probably weigh in here.... I will accept nothing less than actual studies and statistics.
    Nice post DC. I've looked for studies but not found anything.

    For me, having no effect is the least likely, on the basis that everyone writes for effect and all the other reading I can think of has an effect, like to inspire or amuse or inform or whatever.

    With your other options I could see Paedophile A writing as a release and hoping to get nearly-Paedophile B to be influenced and join him. Then they're a little gang who tell each other it's OK...

    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!

    So while we wait for statistics my assumption is that it'd be safer not to publish.

    Totally agree about adolescents, the 16 limit muddles up the issue I think as that's completely different.
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  8. #58
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    My apologise Angel x
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotsmitch2001 View Post
    My apologise Angel x
    No worries dude
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Alright FJ well I'm amazed you're in a condition to have this debate lol but if you wanna play the thin end of the wedge card let me go back to this question:
    What about baby rape stories? Written let's say in a way that advocates it as being great fun and feeling sooo good. Publish? Or not?

    1. Condition?
    2. Yes it is very blurry where the line is. It just seems a hell of a lot of people enjoy incest and underage sex stories but a lot of that group would deem it unacceptable and would not act on it (thankfully) in real life. It is hard in many ways. Personally i would not go near babies in stories but many would not go where i have gone in stories. I just don't want to be labelled a criminal for trying to entertain people i guess.

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  11. #61
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    I must apologize for the following very long post. However, I do believe that the information you are about to read has become a necessity within this thread for one very big reason. Some of the individuals who have left posts within the past few days have been debating back and forth as to what exactly makes a person a pedophile. Is it the action of molesting/raping a child? Or, is the simple fact of have the desire to do so? The added "argument" of whether or not the reading of an underage story will influence someone to commit the crime of pedophilia? I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting the following from Psychology Today. Again, I apologize for the long post.


    Pedophilia
    Pedophilia is sexual attraction to children.

    Definition
    Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies. Perpetrators often delude themselves into viewing their actions as helpful to children. They might tell themselves they are contributing to a child's development or that the child is enjoying the act; however, they do tell their victims not to alert their parents or authorities. An estimated 20 percent of American children have been sexually molested, making pedophilia the most common paraphilia. Offenders are usually family friends or relatives. Types of activities vary and may include just looking at a child or undressing and touching a child. However, acts often do involve oral sex or touching of genitals of the child or offender. Studies suggest that children who feel uncared for or lonely may be at higher risk.

    Symptoms

    Recurrent, intense sexual fantasies, urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger) for a period of at least 6 months.
    The disorder causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
    The person is at least age 16 and at least 5 years older than the child in the first category.
    However, this does not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.
    There are a number of difficulties with the diagnosis of pedophilia. People who have the disease rarely seek help voluntarily—counseling and treatment are often the result of a court order. Interviews, surveillance, or Internet records obtained through the criminal investigation can be helpful evidence in diagnosing the disorder.
    Paraphilias as a group have a high rate of co-morbidity with one another and an equally high rate of co-morbidity with anxiety, major depression or mood disorders, and substance abuse disorders.

    Causes

    The causes of pedophilia (and other paraphilias) are not known. There is some evidence that pedophilia may run in families, though it is unclear whether this stems from genetics or learned behavior.
    Other factors, such as abnormalities in male sexual hormones or the brain chemical serotonin, have not been proven as factors in the development of paraphilias or pedophilia. A history of childhood sexual abuse is also a potential factor in the development of pedophilias but this, too, has not been proven.
    Behavioral learning models suggest that a child who is the victim or observer of inappropriate sexual behaviors learns to imitate and is later reinforced for the behavior. These individuals are deprived of normal social sexual contacts and thus seek gratification through less socially acceptable means. Physiological models focus on the relationship between hormones, behavior, and the central nervous system with a particular interest in the role of aggression and male sexual hormones.

    Treatment

    Medications may be used in conjunction with psychotherapy. Such medications include antiandrogens (to lower sex drive), medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) and leuprolide acetate (Lupron). Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) may be prescribed to treat associated compulsive sexual disorders and/or to gain benefit from libido-lowering sexual side effects. Higher doses than are typically administered for depression are usually used. These include sertraline (Zoloft), fluoxetine (Prozac), fluvoxamine (Luvox), citalopram (Celexa), and paroxetine (Paxil).

    Intensity of sex drive is not consistently related to the behavior of paraphiliacs and high levels of circulating testosterone do not predispose a male to paraphilias. Hormones such as medroxyprogesterone acetate and cyproterone acetate decrease the level of circulating testosterone thereby reducing sex drive and aggression. These hormones reduce the frequency of erections, sexual fantasies, and initiations of sexual behaviors including masturbation and intercourse. Hormones are typically used in tandem with behavioral and cognitive treatments. Antidepressants such as fluoxetine have also successfully decreased sex drive but have not effectively targeted sexual fantasies.
    Research suggests that cognitive-behavioral models are effective in treating paraphiliacs. Such models may include aversive conditioning, confrontation of cognitive distortions which is especially effective in groups, victim empathy (show videos of victims and consequences to victims), assertiveness training (social skills training, time management, structure), relapse prevention (identifying antecedents to the behavior [high-risk situations] and how to disrupt antecedents), surveillance systems (family associates who help monitor patient behavior) and lifelong maintenance.
    Aversive conditioning involves using negative stimuli to reduce or eliminate a behavior. One such therapy is covert sensitization which involves the patient relaxing and visualizing scenes of deviant behavior followed by a negative event such as getting his penis stuck in the zipper of his pants. Assisted aversive conditioning is similar to covert sensitization except the negative event is real, such as in the form of a foul odor pumped in the air by the therapist. The goal is for the patient to associate the deviant behavior with the foul odor. Aversive behavioral reversal is commonly known as "shame therapy;" the goal is to humiliate the offender into ceasing the deviant behavior. For example, the offender might watch videotapes of their crime with the goal that the experience will be distasteful and offensive to the offender.
    There are positive conditioning approaches that center on social skills training and alternate, more appropriate behaviors. Reconditioning, for example, is giving the patient immediate feedback, which may help him change his behavior. For instance, a person might be connected to a biofeedback machine connected to a light, he is taught to keep the light within a specific range of color while he is exposed to sexually stimulating material.
    Cognitive therapies include restructuring cognitive distortions and empathy training. Restructuring cognitive distortions involves correcting a pedophile's thoughts that the child wishes to be involved in the activity. A pedophile observing a young girl wearing shorts may erroneously think, "She wants me." Empathy training involves helping the offender take on the perspective of the victim and to identify with the victim and understand the harm.
    The prognosis for pedophilia is difficult to determine. For pedophiles, these longstanding sexual fantasies about children can be very difficult to change. The practitioner can attempt to reduce the intensity of pedophiliac fantasies and develop coping strategies for the abuser but they must be willing to recognize that a problem exists and be willing to participate in treatment which is not always the case. Dynamic psychotherapy, behavioral techniques, chemical approaches, and surgical interventions yield mixed results. Lifelong maintenance may be a pragmatic and realistic approach.
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  12. #62
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    My thoughts about this are simple:

    Underage themes are already limited to 16 years old, and I think it's ok that way. I know pedophilia is a hard subject, as it is well known that some girls of 13 years old, for example, do have sex and are completely fit to it. But the limit is welcome. We can avoid legal issues and the apology to something that can be really misunderstood as rape. Not all preteen girls are able to have sex without suffering harsh consenquences. No baby should be brought to this kind of stuff...
    Concerning the other themes, I think the writer just have to tag them, expliciting what the stories are about to not fool someone who could feel offended in any way for reading it.
    I can ready everything, any kind of stuff, and enjoy most of them, but it's not for everyone and we should care about it.

    Sorry to intrude on the conversation that way. I just wanted to share my opinion.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    What is negrophilia? Sex with negroes?

    That's illegal? Doesn't sound so bad. Might be nice for a change of hue.
    I think its how they have sex in Montenegro
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhaWhaWha View Post
    I think its how they have sex in Montenegro

    LOL.

    I know my levity rings like a brash bell, amid all this high discourse.

    Know what I really can't stand? What I'd like to burn dead with fire? Those stories where Grampa Joe hoists little Katie over the crib rail and sets her on the changing table; teases her diaper off with his tobacco-stained teeth; fondles pretty Katie's hairless little cunny slit until it opens like a blushing coral-pink lollyflower; pulls the anxious little angel open by her knobby little knees, and bashes his third leg up her virginal wee-hole, way past her belly button, and fills her cute little tummy with slippery babysauce while she cries for Momma and bleeds all over her diaper. Then Grampa Joe says, "Happy High School Graduation, my pretty Katie-Cum-Quat!" and Katie says, "Thanks, Grampa! Look at me! Out of diapers, and off to college!"

    Sheesh. Give me a frickin' break.
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  15. #65
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    Where do I begin... I had sex with a 28 year old woman at the ripe age of 13... Hell I was 8th grade I think? Did it make me a bad person? No I don't think so... Do I have bad dreams about it or anything? No... was it probably a bad thing... I suppose that depends on who you are and how you look at it.

    That was the first time I had sex... in a parking lot on the back of a flatbed trailer...

    If you can still read the Marquis de Sade and I recommend that both Snowleapord and ANgeleyes do... Not because of the content but because it is there, and he was really quite a good writer most of the time. He kind of sucked when he was rushing. I also recommend that you bone up on your anias nin. Is the 16 age limit sufficient? I don't know people break it and I don't really care. It is the guideline for the forum, I'll leave it alone and won't post on the forum stories that might impede the guideline.

    Those writers who do write about younger characters perhaps want to relive their youth vicariously through fiction. As opposed to those who write hate or want hate in their stories... we know those folks are out there. I'll write about anything whatever tickles my fancy at any one time
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    LOL.

    I know my levity rings like a brash bell, amid all this high discourse.

    Know what I really can't stand? What I'd like to burn dead with fire? Those stories where Grampa Joe hoists little Katie over the crib rail and sets her on the changing table; teases her diaper off with his tobacco-stained teeth; fondles pretty Katie's hairless little cunny slit until it opens like a blushing coral-pink lollyflower; pulls the anxious little angel open by her knobby little knees, and bashes his third leg up her virginal wee-hole, way past her belly button, and fills her cute little tummy with slippery babysauce while she cries for Momma and bleeds all over her diaper. Then Grampa Joe says, "Happy High School Graduation, my pretty Katie-Cum-Quat!" and Katie says, "Thanks, Grampa! Look at me! Out of diapers, and off to college!"

    Sheesh. Give me a frickin' break.
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  17. #67
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    Scotsmitch! tsk tsk...lol

    "She was 13, she was a real beauty standing there naked,

    on all 4 legs eating out of her dog dish.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueheatt View Post
    Scotsmitch! tsk tsk...lol

    "She was 13, she was a real beauty standing there naked,

    on all 4 legs eating out of her dog dish.
    Did she like it "ruff" or is that a rumor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.

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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.
    Correct. But what is? Vaccine? Genetic programming? Food additives?
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.

    +1

    I would go one step further by suggesting that good writers do not allow themselves to be constrained by mere fantasies. Good writers conjure characters out of thin air, like alchemists teasing immortality from the eldritch sighs of the dead and dying.

    Fantasies are easy. Fiction is hard.

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.
    Well put.
    There are always risks when living in a free society, but I'm not convinced that curtailing our freedom of speech will make us safer.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Nice post DC. I've looked for studies but not found anything.

    For me, having no effect is the least likely, on the basis that everyone writes for effect and all the other reading I can think of has an effect, like to inspire or amuse or inform or whatever.

    With your other options I could see Paedophile A writing as a release and hoping to get nearly-Paedophile B to be influenced and join him. Then they're a little gang who tell each other it's OK...

    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!

    So while we wait for statistics my assumption is that it'd be safer not to publish.

    Totally agree about adolescents, the 16 limit muddles up the issue I think as that's completely different.
    By your reasoning, prisons shouldn't have windows because if someone is being locked inside of a building as punishment, what need do they have to see outside?

    If a woman cannot have children due to some health issue or plainly as a result of personal choice, or otherwise, it is right and just to force everyone else not to take their offspring into the public eye because it might upset those who cannot conceive.

    Vegetarians don't consume as much if any red meat compared to the rest of our population. To assume that the rest of us have a right to eat freely as we so choose is wrong.

    Does anyone here remember what happened to a rather renowned member of the Nazi party? Hitler? He wanted a perfect race, one solely constituted by blond haired and blue eyed Germans. He himself did not match the description of a "perfect" German but wanted everyone else to fit his ideal.

    These arguments remind me of this, of a self appointed leader who wishes everyone to fit into a narrow idyllic disposition. To not be so apt to refuse the changes being put upon it by its oppressors.

    That's exactly the "one size fits all" world I want to live in

    We all have the same size hands and feet, are the same height and weight. Answer to the same name.

    Why even bother trying to establish our own identities?
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    +1

    I would go one step further by suggesting that good writers do not allow themselves to be constrained by mere fantasies. Good writers conjure characters out of thin air, like alchemists teasing immortality from the eldritch sighs of the dead and dying.

    Fantasies are easy. Fiction is hard.

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    And what really bugs me?...really really fucking bugs me?..is the hypocrites.....the ones that jump and scream about how disgusting it is..that men are wanting to, dreaming of, needing to fuck kids, how disgusting it is....then go to the bathroom and shave of their pubes so they can look like a good little girl for their man...so they can look super sexy in that little schoolgirl outfit he bought because...aw baby (yes calling her baby! lets fucking infantile her while we are there) you look so special in that outfit..maybe just this once you can call me daddy?.......
    and as you lie there and marvel at how hard your man is...how strong he thrusts between your naked thighs...you can tell yourself its ok....just don't wonder (heaven forbid) who it is your husband or partner is thinking about as he thrusts deep, eyes closed, lips silently moving.....

    Then again, maybe you just shave or wax cause it feels , oh so good getting your pubes ripped out
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    I have looked back over the discussions on this thread, and wish to add this much on the matter - ultimatly I do, personally, find underage stories to be reprehenible, that is my opinion and I will respect anyone elses who agrees or disagrees.

    HOWEVER, what I think does need to be done is that any rules on the matter laid down at this sight need to be followed; the rules also need to be clear, concise and easy for everyone to understand.

    Know this much from my own experiences; I have talked with those who are pedophiles, looked into the eyes of madness and darkness of humanity at the most perverse and dealt with the damage they have inflicted on so many others. In harming even one child they shatter more than that one life, they shatter the lives of their families, their communities and so much more done.

    Also, something I seldom tell of to others is I did survive the experience of years of molestation first hand by a uncle trusted by the family. So I am able to understand both sides of the nightmare. And that is what it truly is, a nightmare across all boundaries of lives shattered and torn asunder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard3200 View Post
    I have looked back over the discussions on this thread, and wish to add this much on the matter - ultimatly I do, personally, find underage stories to be reprehenible, that is my opinion and I will respect anyone elses who agrees or disagrees.

    HOWEVER, what I think does need to be done is that any rules on the matter laid down at this sight need to be followed; the rules also need to be clear, concise and easy for everyone to understand.

    Know this much from my own experiences; I have talked with those who are pedophiles, looked into the eyes of madness and darkness of humanity at the most perverse and dealt with the damage they have inflicted on so many others. In harming even one child they shatter more than that one life, they shatter the lives of their families, their communities and so much more done.

    Also, something I seldom tell of to others is I did survive the experience of years of molestation first hand by a uncle trusted by the family. So I am able to understand both sides of the nightmare. And that is what it truly is, a nightmare across all boundaries of lives shattered and torn asunder.
    Well I am truly sorry that happened to you, but with all due respect, unless you are claiming that your uncle was reading stories about it, and that was a causative factor, I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.

    I am in no way attempting to minimize you're suffering, I just don't see what it has to do with fictional stories.
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    *sighs* Are we beating the dead horse again? Well, allow me to poke it for a brief moment before I go back into 'lurking' mode.

    No one here is arguing over the fact that the act itself is an immoral, vile, disgusting, monstrous thing and a nightmare for all those involved. What some are saying is that the written word holds no more or less bearing on those with the mental defect than any other theme or media outlet has on any other person with a mental defect. To put it simply, the written word does not persuade a pedophile to commit an act any more than it persuades someone with homicidal tendencies to commit murder or someone who has thought about rape to go out and rape. Bonanza did not cause a sudden wave of train and stagecoach robbers, SAW did not create a string of serial killers, and Smallville did not see an increase in caped crusaders running around dishing out their own type of protection to the citizens of this great land. Independence Day and Pearl Harbor did have people lining up in droves to join the armed forces. What did give people a cause to rise was 9/11, actions by others, not something put together for entertainment purposes by the media. Because that is what the stories on here, and fiction in general, are meant to do: entertain. It is fiction, it is fantasy, it is make-believe. To quote The Never Ending Story, "It's only a story." If we start banning one type of immoral behavior from fictional media, then we will have to ban it all. Then we would have to start censoring the news. Pretty soon it would all be about the same 3 themes/stories over and over again and that, my friends, would make for some very, very, boring books/movies/graphic novels/lives. And some pretty pissed-off out-of-work actors too .
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    Supporters of ban on pedophile stories
    You all must be incredibly desperate for entertainment
    Ban on violence on women
    Fantasies Can be used against you in Court

    Here is some reading for the newer people.

    Of course I had to give my opinion of this issue because some of our newer members think they are the first to bring this to anyone's attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola Matthews View Post
    Independence Day and Pearl Harbor did have people lining up in droves to join the armed forces.
    Actually, after I saw Independence Day, I immediately set out in my fleet of giant spaceships and invaded another planet with an energy ray that torched their cities, only to be stopped by a computer virus that the primitive life forms somehow managed to make compatible with my advanced computer network that brought down my ships' shields and allowed a drunken cropduster that I had previously captured and experimented on to fly the alien equivalent of a biplane into my flagship kamikaze style and take it down before it could destroy their main base. But now I'm glad for that suspiciously unlikely chain of events, because it forced me to reevaluate my life, and now I see the error of my ways. If not for those primitive aliens that had the courage to do the right thing, I might still be out there among the stars, conquering planet after planet. Curse you, Independence Day, and your addicting glorification of interstellar warfare!
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  31. #81
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    What are we doing here? Are we trying to get admin to drop the age restriction or just trying to win an arguement? I really want to know.

    I support consistancy. If you are going to ban stories with children surely you have to ban rape, snuff etc. I think the age limit is a fair and reasonable approach as it allows adolescant involvement which to many is far more acceptable than infants,toddlers and children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Great question FJ! lol. Who knows really, nothing's going to change it's been said.

    I got into it arguing against someone saying stories don't make any difference, which doesn't seem likely to me at all.

    I think the age limit is silly, personally. You only have to check Wikipedia to see the age of consent is way lower in a lot of countries, like 12 in Angola or 13 in Japan. So obviously sex need not be damaging under 16.
    Very true and they still fall within that adoelscent range.
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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    We all know the difference between fantasy and reality. You're not suggesting you do and I don't, I hope!

    If paedophiles don't then that would mean stories definitely have an effect, wouldn't it?

    Though anyway it must make a difference what the fantasy is. The ones that I was saying apply to me and to the paedophiles are ones (different but) that we WANT to do. For me, writing them makes them more vivid and attractive, and why wouldn't it for anyone? Reading them too. Are yours ones that you don't want to do then? Or ones you'd like to do but can't? Why do you write them out?

    But it's not about 'stopping' paedophiles, it's whether stories influence them at all.
    And by making that statement:

    Murderers would go out and murder after reading the likes of Patricia Cornwell and James Patterson. Rapists would rape, thieves would steal more, terrorists would be blowing up whole cities all over the world. You really give too much credit to the power of the written word. If you know the difference between fantasy and reality, why would you think that pedos would not. That sick thing that's in them is in them when they see a child at the zoo. Should we close every business that caters to children? After all, by looking at them, it will cause pedos to want to commit acts.

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  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    We all know the difference between fantasy and reality. You're not suggesting you do and I don't, I hope!

    If paedophiles don't then that would mean stories definitely have an effect, wouldn't it?

    Though anyway it must make a difference what the fantasy is. The ones that I was saying apply to me and to the paedophiles are ones (different but) that we WANT to do. For me, writing them makes them more vivid and attractive, and why wouldn't it for anyone? Reading them too. Are yours ones that you don't want to do then? Or ones you'd like to do but can't? Why do you write them out?

    But it's not about 'stopping' paedophiles, it's whether stories influence them at all.
    Interesting. I'm not sure what starts a male on the road to paedophilia- no doubt its someone else's fault(it always is) but I would think the urge would be there well before he was old enough to read the "young" stories on our forum.

    As for fantasy or reality well it doesn't matter in their case. They want to have their way with their target victim and they know the consequences of getting caught so they're sneaky, cunning, manipulative but above all driven.

    So would reading a story with a girl under ten, say, having sex be the spark that turns the suppressed desire into something they can't resist?

    And if that then might also ,as has been suggested, a photo of a child in a swim suit or underwear or fully dressed and smiling, frowning, pulling faces.

    Just about anything can set them off but the only one I encountered didn't watch kiddy porn he watched adult porn, with her hand on his cock (3.5 years), and his cock in her mouth (7 years). Those were the sentences , he did it over 5 years from age 7 to 11.

    So if anything can get them off and I suspect that's the case then why bother removing the stories from here?

    As for 16, which is as low as any of the other story sites I've seen go, well:

    Juliet was 13,14? Mary mother of Jesus was, 13 and a half, maybe 14.

    Moslem girls can be married at 7, just blow jobs for their much older husbands and full sex at 9.

    And think they're not keen? Think again.

    helpful post,huh?

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  35. #85
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    we are living ina society that is in the process of mass sexualisation of the young. In adverising, in programming. We dress them up as adults, expect them to act like adults and then get all high and mighty when they are treated as adults.
    Am I to assume, because there was no comment to my previous post that I am right? that I am stating the bleeding obvious?
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  36. #86
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    Clarice - Fantasies are the embodiment of dreams; fiction is the written personification of thsoe dreams made reality in our world. Unlike the alchemists of old trying to tease out immortality stories hold power in the mind of those monsters who believe their fantasies ARE REALITY. Part of their madness is they seek to impose their version of fantasy onto the rest of the world that does not want it; with great harm coming about.

    When it comes to this thread this is all I will say in the end - the written word has power to those who decide to use it for good or for bad; everyone knows now where I stand, so there it will stay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    We all know the difference between fantasy and reality. You're not suggesting you do and I don't, I hope!

    If paedophiles don't then that would mean stories definitely have an effect, wouldn't it?

    Though anyway it must make a difference what the fantasy is. The ones that I was saying apply to me and to the paedophiles are ones (different but) that we WANT to do. For me, writing them makes them more vivid and attractive, and why wouldn't it for anyone? Reading them too. Are yours ones that you don't want to do then? Or ones you'd like to do but can't? Why do you write them out?

    But it's not about 'stopping' paedophiles, it's whether stories influence them at all.
    It's not whether stories influence them at all. It's what kind of influence the stories have. As I mentioned before, are there some cases where pedophiles satisfy their urges by reading young stories, which prevents them from acting out their urges on real children? Because that's an influence, but it's a positive one. If you're opposed to publishing fictional stories about children, you have to address that possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    So if I interpret that correctly PP kiddy porn videos would be OK, as far as you're concerned? Nothing matters? It seems quite an extreme view tbh.
    Kiddy porn videos involve horrible acts against real children. I think we can all agree that this is crossing the line no matter where we draw it.
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    The running debate about what kiddie-porn causes is beside the point. The problem HERE is the "guideline" enforcement of the suggested age of 16 as a limit. I feel that age should be 13 in order to make "discovery" and "coming of age" stories seem more believable. I think that there should be a petition drawn up, for that request, to the administrator and that HE should then post a firm RULE for stories on the forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer View Post
    The running debate about what kiddie-porn causes is beside the point. The problem HERE is the "guideline" enforcement of the suggested age of 16 as a limit. I feel that age should be 13 in order to make "discovery" and "coming of age" stories seem more believable. I think that there should be a petition drawn up, for that request, to the administrator and that HE should then post a firm RULE for stories on the forum.
    I would be willing to sign that petition. I'd even be willing to write the petition up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname View Post
    I would be willing to sign that petition. I'd even be willing to write the petition up.
    Pushing this to the top of the next screen, since it is important, and doesn't need to be buried at the bottom of the second page.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    So if I interpret that correctly PP kiddy porn videos would be OK, as far as you're concerned? Nothing matters? It seems quite an extreme view tbh.

    Um Duh.

    How did I say that?

    I said what he watched wasn't kiddy porn.He watched adult porn with a child.




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  42. #92
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    AngelEyes;

    I wrote a story where a character was an 18 year old female. One of the comments written about it by someone was they liked the story but it would have been better if the girl was 6 or 7.

    If someone has pedophile thoughts they can use anything to stimulate them.
    Personally I think those child beauty contests would stimulate them more than stories but the fact is they will use whatever is available. Banning stories won't stop them only a bullet in the head.
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    The petition is now up on the story forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Fair point about the videos DC. Though some posters seem to think if the kids don't seem to mind that's OK. But I'll stick with the glorifying-baby-raping stories then, what do you think? Publish?


    On the influence, we have to make an assumption based on something. What other examples are there of urges being satisfied by reading?

    For me personally it works the opposite way. And I can think of lots of examples of people being inspired to do things by reading about them.

    But not like "I read about someone climbing a mountain so I don't need to any more." Or whatever urge, I can't think of one being satisfied. Quite interested if there is one . Apart from like a problem being solved obviously.
    I can't give you any examples of pedophiles satisfying their urges by reading stories, because that's not the kind of thing anyone would admit to. It's hard to identify and quantify what someone does in the privacy of their own home. We can only derive information from the victims of abuse and known sex crimes. So any case where the potential abuser does not act on those desires will by nature never show up in the statistics.

    The best I can do is point to something equivalent.

    The argument has been made that sports are a substitute for warfare. They're a way of blowing off steam, of satisfying the urge for violence and competitiveness in a (mostly) safe environment. That, perhaps, is a concept that can be debated with real numbers and other evidence. If we accept the general idea that bad tendencies can be channeled into harmless activities, then it is logical to assume that we can apply that idea to the specific case of pedophilia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Fair point about the videos DC. Though some posters seem to think if the kids don't seem to mind that's OK. But I'll stick with the glorifying-baby-raping stories then, what do you think? Publish?


    On the influence, we have to make an assumption based on something. What other examples are there of urges being satisfied by reading?

    For me personally it works the opposite way. And I can think of lots of examples of people being inspired to do things by reading about them.

    But not like "I read about someone climbing a mountain so I don't need to any more." Or whatever urge, I can't think of one being satisfied. Quite interested if there is one . Apart from like a problem being solved obviously.
    I'm surprised I haven't seen you active on this thread

    http://forum.xnxx.com/showthread.php...56#post4719056

    Or do you find writing about underage sex more obnoxious than encouraging people to commit suicide?

    I've grown weary of life, and as they say, misery loves company. I made a pro suicide forum to meet up with people who feel the same. It's bran new (as of Jan 5, 2012) so it doesn't have a whole lot of members or posts yet. I plan to take my own life someday, once I have done all the proper research and have taken care of all my life commitments. The longest journey starts with a single step. My mom committed suicide in 2009, and I want to join her.


    What do you feel about a site that promotes pro suicide discussion and suicide pacts?
    Or could it be that, living in a country where assisted suicide is legal, the idea that young children can get onto a forum and get advice about killing themselves doesn't shock you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    OK I'm right with you on the bullet. But the way your story was less appealing to him with being too old for his pedo side was good, wasn't it? It sounds like it stimulated him less.
    Maybe, its not like I could ask him but I'm guessing in his mind he just changed the character's age. It isn't like in every sentence I wrote I said her eighteen year old breast or her eighteen year old blue eyes or whatever.

    And by your logic if I write a story where someone gets away with murder then that shouldn't be allowed because someone then might think If it worked in the story then I'll try it myself.

    Don't get me wrong I have no desire to write about babies being raped but what if someone writes about a cult sacrificing a baby to the devil or a demon. Would you allow that? Remember words don't make anyone do anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Wot? This crappy personal attack is the best you can do? Really.
    It might have made things easier for everyone if you had stated this from the beginning

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    I agree. 16 is ridiculous as the youngest age.
    Instead, you come onto a thread discussing underage sex with a limit of 16 and start to talk about paedos. It wasn't just me who got the wrong end of your posts. So what do you consider as the cut-off age of stories?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Stories don't make a critical difference to every pedo, sure. The question is do promoting-type stories increase pedo activity overall? Even for one child?

    We have to infer. But since media generally influences people, I infer that promotion promotes it.

    If someone writes about baby-eating as a bad thing that's art I have no problem with it. Likewise with pedo sex, as a bad thing.

    What I object to is people writing stories that pedos enjoy and cluster round, telling each other it's great (and they should do more).
    Perhaps you should sit back and think about things.

    In the case of a rapist he is not interested in his victim. He just needs to fulfil his sexual needs and does not care about the profile of the victim. In this case it would be possible to put forward the argument that a story might encourage a rapist to attack someone. He is interseted in one attack and is not looking for a continuing relationship.

    However the paedophile is a different matter. Why has every child in the world not been the focus of a paedo? Because it isn't just a case of sexual need but desire. Why otherwise would paedos spend hours grooming victims on the web? They are attracted to certain children for specific reasons. Perhaps they see themselves in the children. Perhaps the young boy looks like the school chum who first wanked him off. A blond like his first girlfriend. The same traits as the serial killer in other words. Except for the fact that the serial killer feels the need to kill his victim and therefore has to move on to someone else.

    The paedophile is looking for a relationship which he cannot have with an adult so has to pass it on to a child. However he will focus on one or perhaps a small number of children whom he has seen or knows.

    However the key to this continuing argument is perhaps something I read a while ago and I would ask our lady friends to confirm or negate the point.

    When men masturbate they have an idea of the woman (or man) in their head. Whatever is written in a story they will always see a woman (or man) they know and put her in the situation. Though it may put an idea in a paedophile's mind or lead to a final attack it is only a small part in the whole process.

    On the other hand, and here I need the feedback from the ladies, I have read that when women masturbate they imagine a man without putting a face to him. Perhaps this explains why so many women misunderstand the male psyche.

    I often think back to when I saw my 14 year-old cousin naked (she's 56 now) and it excites me but it doesn't make me a paedophile. However I'm not permitted to write a story about it.

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  49. #99
    Precious princess clarise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    I'm not sure if this was still responding to me clarise but I certainly don't claim to be a good writer! But anyway if a potential paedophile is reading a story it's not going to matter how creative the author has been; the question is whether a story that presents pedo in a favourable way encourages him to be a bit more pedo, or if it really makes no difference at all.


    I do not think I ever responded to you. Maybe I did. I don't know.

    As to your post (above), I'm perplexed. I made a general remark about the inadequacy of fantasy as inspiration for well-crafted fiction, and the practice of good writers to assiduously craft characters and plot with attention paid to every word. I made the point metaphorically, and some have told me, artfully. You've twisted it into some kind of psychotic polemic against psychos. Or something. Whatever.

    You're kind of funny. Wanna be my XNXX friend?
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  50. #100
    Porn Star ahorsewithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wee Hector View Post
    I often think back to when I saw my 14 year-old cousin naked (she's 56 now) and it excites me but it doesn't make me a paedophile. However I'm not permitted to write a story about it.
    Sure you can, dude. You just can't post it here (yet). You can write it and post it in the Stories section. So, um, do it.
    Writing Contest! Calling All Writers #19

    CAW 7 Winner: Best Little Whorehouse on XNXX
    CAW 11 Winner: The White
    CAW 18 Winner: The Light
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