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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    Not all of us. Both of my daughters and I were 18 or older when we lost our virginity. But then, things were different then.
    That's cool ejls you weren't supposed to take it literally! The point is loads of people under 16 have a great time with sex and aren't damaged by it in the slightest. So 15 is an extreme, for something to be considered paedophilia.

    So my point was the range is babies to 15. Where do you draw the line? Or REALLY not at all? With stories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard3200 View Post
    Understand one thing up front about pedophilia; these monsters, and yes they are monsters are among the worst of the worst in humanity ever. I have dealt both with the surviving victims of them - the physical and psychological damaged wrecks who are trying to put their lives togeather; and interviewed the very monsters many a time who inflict this most sadistic of evil on the most innocent.

    Stories of the underage is often enough to WANT them to seek and hunt their next vicitim(s) down; these monsters know exactly what they are doing, they choose to do so, and continue to do so. Many times I have heard the same cycle of madness going round and round until finally I had to give up dealing with these monsters for the sake of my own sanity.

    If you want to know true evil unleashed by humanity; look at the minds of these monsters - and look at the damage they inflict not just on their victims, on their families and the communities as a whole. To see them as they see themselves is to understand the mind of a injured, starved, rabid wolf.
    Hey there... I just have one word for you, that is ignorant!

    You have no idea what you're talking about, first of all you are referring to people who enjoy underage stories as monsters? I can let you know that you have tunnel vision. As the OP said no one talks about incest, necrophilia or rape. Underage sex that the OP is discussing has nothing to do with the other 3

    Why don't you go on a thread about rape? This is about underage sex stories with consent, some preteen boys or girls would probably love to experience sex. When I was younger I know did, and some people enjoy thinking about it because it brings back memories. Just because someone has a fetish for that doesn't mean they will go out an rape someone, you sound like an idiot.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornyelk View Post
    If anyone knows a site that will publish underage stories, please let me know so I can publish them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    People are inspired to support charities and do sports and so on by reading about other people doing those things. Writing is one of the main ways people influence each other in fact.

    So why wouldn't pedo stories have that influencing effect, if they're written in a way that approves it?

    "This little boy feels great on my cock" is promoting it, isn't it? Makes it seem enjoyable and acceptable.
    Doing charity work is seen by society as virtuous, and sports as a perfectly normal thing to do, unlike child molestation which is viewed, justifiably, as morally, and ethically repugnant so that comparison doesn't really wash.

    Do you honestly believe that banning underage stories from here is going to stop one singe pedophile from acting on it?
    Because I just think that is ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    That's similar to the excuses they used for the Columbine shootings. It never would have happened if the families hadn't had shotguns (for hunting) in the house. My father had guns. We knew where they were, we knew where the ammo was kept and we were taught how to load, cock and shoot. Would we ever have touched them on our own? Hell no!

    Are you going to say if we watch Silence of the Lambs we will become serial killers? If we watch cartoons we are apt to hit a coyote in the head with a frying pan? If a girl watches Pretty Woman she'll become a hooker?

    I've read tons of books in my many years. None of the fiction has influenced me to do anything other than want to continue reading. No - just because it's written and someone reads it doesn't make them think it's okay in real life. Will there be a small few that might? Oh yeah, but that's true of anything in society.
    Couldn't have said better myself tbqh.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard3200 View Post
    To Angel Eyes 15 - on the money, the fact is that any such story supporting or even giving the impression of supporting the pedofiles - aberrations of nature to the extreme - is used by them to justify their every action in the demented nightmare worlds they live within.
    But don't you think the show Toddlers & Tiaras is used that way?
    Do we, as a society, really want to ban art, and/or entertainment based on what the mentally unbalanced might do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enticing_Vixen View Post
    For years I was molested/raped by several "so called men" in my life. It originally started with my own paternal grandfather when I was only five or six years old. Next it was my older brother's best friend just two years later. After my parents divorced, my mother's boyfriend and his roommate would trade me back and forth when either of them would "baby-sit" me. Which started just a vicious cycle of of my mother's choice in men to ultimately using my body for their own sexual gradifcation, a couple even used me as a punching bag. It was because of one of these guys, though I am not able to remember who exactly, that was never given the opportunity, nor the choice, to later in life give my virginity to the man I have been married to for several years now. My husband knows just about everything about past, at least what I can remember, and he has never expressed a problem with accepting a wife who came to him as "damaged goods."
    Now I will admit that over recent years I have developed a fetish, sort a speak, of role-playing with my husband. Just about every time I take on the role of a very young teen-aged girl who is caught up in "the world of vice" and he is the older man who "takes advantage of me."
    Yes, I do read the stories that do contain the following themes: young, teen, pregnant, older male-teen female, rape, and fiction (just to name a few). Neither of us go out and "seeks" out young girls, but rather we use the scenarios as a kind of therapy for me. One reason to help me reach climax and the other is to assist me in dealing with my past on a more intimate level in a completely safe and loving environment.
    If there are people out there who think that my husband and I are "sick fucks" then that is their opinion and they are welcome to it. But just remember one thing, "Do not judge... lest ye be judged." and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Besides, we are not hurting anyone nor will we ever hurt anyone.
    Thank you so much for posting this.
    It takes guts to lay it on the line like that, and I admire guts.
    I posted a thread about an experience that I had behind writing this kind of stuff.

    It was almost an accident that I fell into writing daddy/daughter incest stories, but once I started really talking to these women I realized that for a lot of them this was very cathartic, and the idea that I could help them to heal was a very attractive one to me.
    Easing the pain of others is just one of those things that I always aspire to do in any way that I can.

    One day I was at this church function, feeding the homeless, and there was this girl there who sometimes volunteers from another church.
    She's one of those people that are pretty to look at, but what makes her truly beautiful is the way that she is.
    So kind, and compassionate that she makes you look at people in a more kindly manner.
    She just has that kind of presence.
    She also has the kind of personality that makes you want to tell her everything about yourself, and so I got onto the subject of my writing, and needless to say she was a little surprised when I told her what I wrote about, but not judgmental at all.
    So I said, "It's kind of twisted, and dark, but at the same time there's sweetness to it."

    Without missing a beat she said, "Because you understand the pain that it comes from." and it was in a tone that said, "How kind of you to help those poor women."

    I've never felt so good about writing smut in my life.

    Whenever I try to bring up the perfectly understandable reasons why someone might be into this kind of stuff it gets very little attention, and I think that's kind of sad.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer View Post
    I just don't think that the current administrator gives a shit what we think. All PM's (sent to him) are totally ignored and HE has never posted anything (on the forums) about an age limit. We only have a second-hand account posted about how he "is hesitant to place a firm limit on the ages of the sexual characters in the stories" but "feels" that starting with age 16 is fair.

    I agree that it was a nice place to "start" but now let's have HIM post a FIRM EDICT lowering it to age 13 so that the writers can produce more realistic stories that still are not pedophile in nature.
    First off, the only reason we even "have a second-hand account posted about how he "is hesitant to place a firm limit on the ages of the sexual characters in the stories" but "feels" that starting with age 16 is fair" is that a mod got tired of the speculation, bickering, and name-calling, and pressed for an answer. She got one, and since the admin didn't seem like he was going to log-on and post it himself, and since she probably got it as a PM which she obviously couldn't share, the only thing she could do was paraphrase it -- share the gist of it -- a second-hand account.

    Be thankful for that. It's a helluva lot better than nothing.

    You're absolutely correct, ELP, he/she/it doesn't give a flying fuck about the forum, as long as it's not getting spammed or hosting content that someone, somewhere, for some reason, deems inappropriate.

    So, we deal with it.

    Haven't we been through this before?
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Red View Post
    Doing charity work is seen by society as virtuous, and sports as a perfectly normal thing to do, unlike child molestation which is viewed, justifiably, as morally, and ethically repugnant so that comparison doesn't really wash.

    Do you honestly believe that banning underage stories from here is going to stop one singe pedophile from acting on it?
    Because I just think that is ridiculous.
    I put the comparison there Eric because with charity work it's easy to accept that reading influences us. It seems obvious to me that this is the case.

    So why would it NOT influence readers in the case of child molestation? In a story as I said where it's portrayed as enjoyable to the adult and acceptable.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    I put the comparison there Eric because with charity work it's easy to accept that reading influences us. It seems obvious to me that this is the case.

    So why would it NOT influence readers in the case of child molestation? In a story as I said where it's portrayed as enjoyable to the adult and acceptable.
    I'm sorry, but you missed my point entirely.
    Let me put this another way.
    No one reads anything in a vacuum, which is to say that there are other, much more pressing influences on our behavior.
    Our upbringing, which includes not only what our parents taught us, but the basic community standards that we learned from teachers, other adults, and even other children, especially our siblings if we had them.

    Now I don't know where you live, but where I come from we are taught that molesting children is not okay, and it would take a hell of a lot more then a story to reverse all that education.

    And hey, you didn't answer my question.
    Do you really believe that banning stories from here is actually protecting any children?
    I mean, seriously.
    Last edited by Eric the Red; 01-08-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Red View Post
    I'm sorry, but you missed my point entirely.
    Let me put this another way.
    No one reads anything in a vacuum, which is to say that there are other, much more pressing influences on our behavior.
    Our upbringing, which includes not only what our parents taught us, but the basic community standards that we learned from teachers, other adults, and even other children, especially our siblings if we had them.

    Now I don't know where you live, but where I come from we are taught that molesting children is not okay, and it would take a hell of a lot more then a story to reverse all that education.

    And hey, you didn't answer my question.
    Do you really believe that banning stories from here is actually protecting any children?
    I mean, seriously.
    Well there are influences against child abuse and they're strong, I agree. And for some tiny minority they're not enough, they have impulses that are too strong.

    At any time there have to be people who can just resist the impulses and people who can't quite.

    So if you add an influence to that situation, it can ONLY change the number of people either side of the line.

    So the answer to your question is that promoting-type pedo abuse stories OBVIOUSLY are going to lead to more damaged children. We just don't know who they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Well there are influences against child abuse and they're strong, I agree. And for some tiny minority they're not enough, they have impulses that are too strong.

    At any time there have to be people who can just resist the impulses and people who can't quite.

    So if you add an influence to that situation, it can ONLY change the number of people either side of the line.

    So the answer to your question is that promoting-type pedo abuse stories OBVIOUSLY are going to lead to more damaged children. We just don't know who they are.
    I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I must disagree.
    The complete ignorance of human psychology, and I don't mean text book stuff here, I mean the practical stuff that we all learn, and apply through our interactions with other humans, and pathological lack of empathy it takes to ever think that molesting a child is okay is something you either have in you or you don't.
    I just think you are giving fiction way to much credit as an influence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Red View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I must disagree.
    The complete ignorance of human psychology, and I don't mean text book stuff here, I mean the practical stuff that we all learn, and apply through our interactions with other humans, and pathological lack of empathy it takes to ever think that molesting a child is okay is something you either have in you or you don't.
    I just think you are giving fiction way to much credit as an influence.
    Okay Eric I respect your opinion. I see it as a continuous thing, is the difference between us - I think there are always some people on the threshold of being active paedophiles, and any form of approval and encouragement can tip them over. In the same way that many people think 13 years old is OK, a bit fewer 12, fewer again 11, fewer 10 and so on and so on.

    But anyway...I'm not gonna change your mind I know so everyone can read what we've said and make up their minds .
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Okay Eric I respect your opinion. I see it as a continuous thing, is the difference between us - I think there are always some people on the threshold of being active paedophiles, and any form of approval and encouragement can tip them over. In the same way that many people think 13 years old is OK, a bit fewer 12, fewer again 11, fewer 10 and so on and so on.

    But anyway...I'm not gonna change your mind I know so everyone can read what we've said and make up their minds .

    As someone who works with hundreds of kids on a daily basis ifirst have to say i consider myself far from an expert. However i have spoken to and dealt with kids who are victims of all manner of abuse. Various substances, emotional, physical and sexual. While it breaks my heart and i do all i can to help remove them from harmful situations i beleive that prevention as far as offenders are concerned is to the most part up to themselves. Sure they can get help when they admit to having a problem but until then they are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off (offend) and i do not beleive reading 1 story or 1 hundred will impact on that.

    Are we going to remove all violence from stories?
    Are we going to remove all alcohol consumption?
    All manipulation and yelling?

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    Sorry Angel i thought that would quote yours and Eric's bit but it only quoted yours. Was not a reaction to yours alone but the whole topic really. FJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer Joe View Post
    As someone who works with hundreds of kids on a daily basis ifirst have to say i consider myself far from an expert. However i have spoken to and dealt with kids who are victims of all manner of abuse. Various substances, emotional, physical and sexual. While it breaks my heart and i do all i can to help remove them from harmful situations i beleive that prevention as far as offenders are concerned is to the most part up to themselves. Sure they can get help when they admit to having a problem but until then they are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off (offend) and i do not beleive reading 1 story or 1 hundred will impact on that.

    Are we going to remove all violence from stories?
    Are we going to remove all alcohol consumption?
    All manipulation and yelling?

    Just my thoughts FJ
    Alright FJ well I'm amazed you're in a condition to have this debate lol but if you wanna play the thin end of the wedge card let me go back to this question:
    What about baby rape stories? Written let's say in a way that advocates it as being great fun and feeling sooo good. Publish? Or not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer Joe View Post
    Sorry Angel i thought that would quote yours and Eric's bit but it only quoted yours. Was not a reaction to yours alone but the whole topic really. FJ
    No worries Joe I can have a debate without going to war
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    Since I'm a writer of underage stories, I figure I should probably weigh in here.

    First, we need to make a distinction between adolescents and children in stories. There's nothing magical about the age 18 that makes a girl suddenly sexy when she was completely asexual before. In certain times in history and in some cultures, if a girl is unmarried by the time she's 18, she's considered an old maid. Anthropologically speaking, puberty is really the minimum line to draw for when a girl can be considered sexy. So I think it's perfectly normal for a healthy, heterosexual man to occasionally look at a 16 year old girl, or even occasionally younger, and think she's attractive.

    On the other hand, the same thing cannot be said about a girl who's 6. There is something different and wrong about a man who is sexually attracted to a 6-year-old.

    I would not, however, condemn someone for their desires. It's their actions that count. What differentiates us from animals is our ability to deny our instincts and urges. We, of all the creatures on the earth, can make a conscious choice. We don't lock up a person for wanting to commit murder; we lock them up for acting on that desire. Likewise, we shouldn't punish a man for being a pedophile; but we should certainly punish him for acting on those tendencies. Those are the true monsters and I support maximum penalties for that.

    That brings us back to the stories. First, I don't think there should be any rules against stories about adolescents, because, frankly, there's nothing wrong with being turned on by that. It's perfectly natural, as long as it doesn't become an obsession.

    When the characters are even younger, i.e. prepubescent, it becomes a gray area. There seem to be 3 schools of thought on that:

    1. Underage stories encourage people to become pedophiles and/or act out those tendencies on real children.

    2. Underage stories have no effect on people one way or the other.

    3. Underage stories provide a safe outlet for satisfying the fantasies of pedophiles.

    I would guess that there's probably a mixture of all 3. There are probably some people who fall into each category. The problem is that without hard numbers to back these up, any opinion we give is just a guess. My personal opinion is that #2 is the most common, then #3, then #1. Which means that allowing those stories on sites like this is a net benefit to society. I'm perfectly willing to be persuaded otherwise, but with all due respect to snowleopard3200, it will take more than hot tempers or passionate pleas. I will accept nothing less than actual studies and statistics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Okay Eric I respect your opinion. I see it as a continuous thing, is the difference between us - I think there are always some people on the threshold of being active paedophiles, and any form of approval and encouragement can tip them over. In the same way that many people think 13 years old is OK, a bit fewer 12, fewer again 11, fewer 10 and so on and so on.

    But anyway...I'm not gonna change your mind I know so everyone can read what we've said and make up their minds .
    This is the stumbling block for me Angel.....The threshold of being an active paedophile....
    That person is a paedophile, he just hasn'r comsummated the act...Regardless of what he does or doesnt read, he will become one.
    It could be the oppurtunity of approaching a child when its all right.
    It could be a programme
    a book
    a magazine
    a picture
    a child saying hello
    a laugh
    a news item
    It could be anything or nothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotsmitch2001 View Post
    This is the stumbling block for me Angel.....The threshold of being an active paedophile....
    That person is a paedophile, he just hasn'r comsummated the act...Regardless of what he does or doesnt read, he will become one.
    It could be the oppurtunity of approaching a child when its all right.
    It could be a programme
    a book
    a magazine
    a picture
    a child saying hello
    a laugh
    a news item
    It could be anything or nothing
    The way I see it Mitch is that in every way I can think of people are shades of grey. Take anything - 'kind' 'tall' 'clever' 'sexy' whatever - there's a continuous progression: if you lined up the population of the world there'd always be people who are 'almost', 'slightly' 'very' and so on.

    So with 'paedophile' how likely is it that in that ONE way people are suddenly in two totally different groups that don't have people in between? I don't think it can be like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddycums View Post
    Since I'm a writer of underage stories, I figure I should probably weigh in here.... I will accept nothing less than actual studies and statistics.
    Nice post DC. I've looked for studies but not found anything.

    For me, having no effect is the least likely, on the basis that everyone writes for effect and all the other reading I can think of has an effect, like to inspire or amuse or inform or whatever.

    With your other options I could see Paedophile A writing as a release and hoping to get nearly-Paedophile B to be influenced and join him. Then they're a little gang who tell each other it's OK...

    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!

    So while we wait for statistics my assumption is that it'd be safer not to publish.

    Totally agree about adolescents, the 16 limit muddles up the issue I think as that's completely different.
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    My apologise Angel x
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotsmitch2001 View Post
    My apologise Angel x
    No worries dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Alright FJ well I'm amazed you're in a condition to have this debate lol but if you wanna play the thin end of the wedge card let me go back to this question:
    What about baby rape stories? Written let's say in a way that advocates it as being great fun and feeling sooo good. Publish? Or not?

    1. Condition?
    2. Yes it is very blurry where the line is. It just seems a hell of a lot of people enjoy incest and underage sex stories but a lot of that group would deem it unacceptable and would not act on it (thankfully) in real life. It is hard in many ways. Personally i would not go near babies in stories but many would not go where i have gone in stories. I just don't want to be labelled a criminal for trying to entertain people i guess.

    Hope you didn't feel i was having a dig at you Angel. I wouldn't FJ
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    I must apologize for the following very long post. However, I do believe that the information you are about to read has become a necessity within this thread for one very big reason. Some of the individuals who have left posts within the past few days have been debating back and forth as to what exactly makes a person a pedophile. Is it the action of molesting/raping a child? Or, is the simple fact of have the desire to do so? The added "argument" of whether or not the reading of an underage story will influence someone to commit the crime of pedophilia? I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting the following from Psychology Today. Again, I apologize for the long post.


    Pedophilia
    Pedophilia is sexual attraction to children.

    Definition
    Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies. Perpetrators often delude themselves into viewing their actions as helpful to children. They might tell themselves they are contributing to a child's development or that the child is enjoying the act; however, they do tell their victims not to alert their parents or authorities. An estimated 20 percent of American children have been sexually molested, making pedophilia the most common paraphilia. Offenders are usually family friends or relatives. Types of activities vary and may include just looking at a child or undressing and touching a child. However, acts often do involve oral sex or touching of genitals of the child or offender. Studies suggest that children who feel uncared for or lonely may be at higher risk.

    Symptoms

    Recurrent, intense sexual fantasies, urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger) for a period of at least 6 months.
    The disorder causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
    The person is at least age 16 and at least 5 years older than the child in the first category.
    However, this does not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.
    There are a number of difficulties with the diagnosis of pedophilia. People who have the disease rarely seek help voluntarily—counseling and treatment are often the result of a court order. Interviews, surveillance, or Internet records obtained through the criminal investigation can be helpful evidence in diagnosing the disorder.
    Paraphilias as a group have a high rate of co-morbidity with one another and an equally high rate of co-morbidity with anxiety, major depression or mood disorders, and substance abuse disorders.

    Causes

    The causes of pedophilia (and other paraphilias) are not known. There is some evidence that pedophilia may run in families, though it is unclear whether this stems from genetics or learned behavior.
    Other factors, such as abnormalities in male sexual hormones or the brain chemical serotonin, have not been proven as factors in the development of paraphilias or pedophilia. A history of childhood sexual abuse is also a potential factor in the development of pedophilias but this, too, has not been proven.
    Behavioral learning models suggest that a child who is the victim or observer of inappropriate sexual behaviors learns to imitate and is later reinforced for the behavior. These individuals are deprived of normal social sexual contacts and thus seek gratification through less socially acceptable means. Physiological models focus on the relationship between hormones, behavior, and the central nervous system with a particular interest in the role of aggression and male sexual hormones.

    Treatment

    Medications may be used in conjunction with psychotherapy. Such medications include antiandrogens (to lower sex drive), medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) and leuprolide acetate (Lupron). Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) may be prescribed to treat associated compulsive sexual disorders and/or to gain benefit from libido-lowering sexual side effects. Higher doses than are typically administered for depression are usually used. These include sertraline (Zoloft), fluoxetine (Prozac), fluvoxamine (Luvox), citalopram (Celexa), and paroxetine (Paxil).

    Intensity of sex drive is not consistently related to the behavior of paraphiliacs and high levels of circulating testosterone do not predispose a male to paraphilias. Hormones such as medroxyprogesterone acetate and cyproterone acetate decrease the level of circulating testosterone thereby reducing sex drive and aggression. These hormones reduce the frequency of erections, sexual fantasies, and initiations of sexual behaviors including masturbation and intercourse. Hormones are typically used in tandem with behavioral and cognitive treatments. Antidepressants such as fluoxetine have also successfully decreased sex drive but have not effectively targeted sexual fantasies.
    Research suggests that cognitive-behavioral models are effective in treating paraphiliacs. Such models may include aversive conditioning, confrontation of cognitive distortions which is especially effective in groups, victim empathy (show videos of victims and consequences to victims), assertiveness training (social skills training, time management, structure), relapse prevention (identifying antecedents to the behavior [high-risk situations] and how to disrupt antecedents), surveillance systems (family associates who help monitor patient behavior) and lifelong maintenance.
    Aversive conditioning involves using negative stimuli to reduce or eliminate a behavior. One such therapy is covert sensitization which involves the patient relaxing and visualizing scenes of deviant behavior followed by a negative event such as getting his penis stuck in the zipper of his pants. Assisted aversive conditioning is similar to covert sensitization except the negative event is real, such as in the form of a foul odor pumped in the air by the therapist. The goal is for the patient to associate the deviant behavior with the foul odor. Aversive behavioral reversal is commonly known as "shame therapy;" the goal is to humiliate the offender into ceasing the deviant behavior. For example, the offender might watch videotapes of their crime with the goal that the experience will be distasteful and offensive to the offender.
    There are positive conditioning approaches that center on social skills training and alternate, more appropriate behaviors. Reconditioning, for example, is giving the patient immediate feedback, which may help him change his behavior. For instance, a person might be connected to a biofeedback machine connected to a light, he is taught to keep the light within a specific range of color while he is exposed to sexually stimulating material.
    Cognitive therapies include restructuring cognitive distortions and empathy training. Restructuring cognitive distortions involves correcting a pedophile's thoughts that the child wishes to be involved in the activity. A pedophile observing a young girl wearing shorts may erroneously think, "She wants me." Empathy training involves helping the offender take on the perspective of the victim and to identify with the victim and understand the harm.
    The prognosis for pedophilia is difficult to determine. For pedophiles, these longstanding sexual fantasies about children can be very difficult to change. The practitioner can attempt to reduce the intensity of pedophiliac fantasies and develop coping strategies for the abuser but they must be willing to recognize that a problem exists and be willing to participate in treatment which is not always the case. Dynamic psychotherapy, behavioral techniques, chemical approaches, and surgical interventions yield mixed results. Lifelong maintenance may be a pragmatic and realistic approach.
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    My thoughts about this are simple:

    Underage themes are already limited to 16 years old, and I think it's ok that way. I know pedophilia is a hard subject, as it is well known that some girls of 13 years old, for example, do have sex and are completely fit to it. But the limit is welcome. We can avoid legal issues and the apology to something that can be really misunderstood as rape. Not all preteen girls are able to have sex without suffering harsh consenquences. No baby should be brought to this kind of stuff...
    Concerning the other themes, I think the writer just have to tag them, expliciting what the stories are about to not fool someone who could feel offended in any way for reading it.
    I can ready everything, any kind of stuff, and enjoy most of them, but it's not for everyone and we should care about it.

    Sorry to intrude on the conversation that way. I just wanted to share my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    What is negrophilia? Sex with negroes?

    That's illegal? Doesn't sound so bad. Might be nice for a change of hue.
    I think its how they have sex in Montenegro
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhaWhaWha View Post
    I think its how they have sex in Montenegro

    LOL.

    I know my levity rings like a brash bell, amid all this high discourse.

    Know what I really can't stand? What I'd like to burn dead with fire? Those stories where Grampa Joe hoists little Katie over the crib rail and sets her on the changing table; teases her diaper off with his tobacco-stained teeth; fondles pretty Katie's hairless little cunny slit until it opens like a blushing coral-pink lollyflower; pulls the anxious little angel open by her knobby little knees, and bashes his third leg up her virginal wee-hole, way past her belly button, and fills her cute little tummy with slippery babysauce while she cries for Momma and bleeds all over her diaper. Then Grampa Joe says, "Happy High School Graduation, my pretty Katie-Cum-Quat!" and Katie says, "Thanks, Grampa! Look at me! Out of diapers, and off to college!"

    Sheesh. Give me a frickin' break.
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    Where do I begin... I had sex with a 28 year old woman at the ripe age of 13... Hell I was 8th grade I think? Did it make me a bad person? No I don't think so... Do I have bad dreams about it or anything? No... was it probably a bad thing... I suppose that depends on who you are and how you look at it.

    That was the first time I had sex... in a parking lot on the back of a flatbed trailer...

    If you can still read the Marquis de Sade and I recommend that both Snowleapord and ANgeleyes do... Not because of the content but because it is there, and he was really quite a good writer most of the time. He kind of sucked when he was rushing. I also recommend that you bone up on your anias nin. Is the 16 age limit sufficient? I don't know people break it and I don't really care. It is the guideline for the forum, I'll leave it alone and won't post on the forum stories that might impede the guideline.

    Those writers who do write about younger characters perhaps want to relive their youth vicariously through fiction. As opposed to those who write hate or want hate in their stories... we know those folks are out there. I'll write about anything whatever tickles my fancy at any one time
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    LOL.

    I know my levity rings like a brash bell, amid all this high discourse.

    Know what I really can't stand? What I'd like to burn dead with fire? Those stories where Grampa Joe hoists little Katie over the crib rail and sets her on the changing table; teases her diaper off with his tobacco-stained teeth; fondles pretty Katie's hairless little cunny slit until it opens like a blushing coral-pink lollyflower; pulls the anxious little angel open by her knobby little knees, and bashes his third leg up her virginal wee-hole, way past her belly button, and fills her cute little tummy with slippery babysauce while she cries for Momma and bleeds all over her diaper. Then Grampa Joe says, "Happy High School Graduation, my pretty Katie-Cum-Quat!" and Katie says, "Thanks, Grampa! Look at me! Out of diapers, and off to college!"

    Sheesh. Give me a frickin' break.
    Fuck, that was hot
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    Scotsmitch! tsk tsk...lol

    "She was 13, she was a real beauty standing there naked,

    on all 4 legs eating out of her dog dish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueheatt View Post
    Scotsmitch! tsk tsk...lol

    "She was 13, she was a real beauty standing there naked,

    on all 4 legs eating out of her dog dish.
    Did she like it "ruff" or is that a rumor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.
    Correct. But what is? Vaccine? Genetic programming? Food additives?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.

    +1

    I would go one step further by suggesting that good writers do not allow themselves to be constrained by mere fantasies. Good writers conjure characters out of thin air, like alchemists teasing immortality from the eldritch sighs of the dead and dying.

    Fantasies are easy. Fiction is hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejls View Post
    And when I write out my fantasies it has not made me want to go out and actually do them. That's because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most of the people in this world do. There will always be a small number that act out deviant fantasies, but banning books or stories is not the way to stop them.
    Well put.
    There are always risks when living in a free society, but I'm not convinced that curtailing our freedom of speech will make us safer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelEyes15 View Post
    Nice post DC. I've looked for studies but not found anything.

    For me, having no effect is the least likely, on the basis that everyone writes for effect and all the other reading I can think of has an effect, like to inspire or amuse or inform or whatever.

    With your other options I could see Paedophile A writing as a release and hoping to get nearly-Paedophile B to be influenced and join him. Then they're a little gang who tell each other it's OK...

    Though the 'release' thing is questionable in my tiny experience. When I've written out my fantasies it's made me want to go out and actually do them MORE!

    So while we wait for statistics my assumption is that it'd be safer not to publish.

    Totally agree about adolescents, the 16 limit muddles up the issue I think as that's completely different.
    By your reasoning, prisons shouldn't have windows because if someone is being locked inside of a building as punishment, what need do they have to see outside?

    If a woman cannot have children due to some health issue or plainly as a result of personal choice, or otherwise, it is right and just to force everyone else not to take their offspring into the public eye because it might upset those who cannot conceive.

    Vegetarians don't consume as much if any red meat compared to the rest of our population. To assume that the rest of us have a right to eat freely as we so choose is wrong.

    Does anyone here remember what happened to a rather renowned member of the Nazi party? Hitler? He wanted a perfect race, one solely constituted by blond haired and blue eyed Germans. He himself did not match the description of a "perfect" German but wanted everyone else to fit his ideal.

    These arguments remind me of this, of a self appointed leader who wishes everyone to fit into a narrow idyllic disposition. To not be so apt to refuse the changes being put upon it by its oppressors.

    That's exactly the "one size fits all" world I want to live in

    We all have the same size hands and feet, are the same height and weight. Answer to the same name.

    Why even bother trying to establish our own identities?
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarise View Post
    +1

    I would go one step further by suggesting that good writers do not allow themselves to be constrained by mere fantasies. Good writers conjure characters out of thin air, like alchemists teasing immortality from the eldritch sighs of the dead and dying.

    Fantasies are easy. Fiction is hard.

    clarise
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    And what really bugs me?...really really fucking bugs me?..is the hypocrites.....the ones that jump and scream about how disgusting it is..that men are wanting to, dreaming of, needing to fuck kids, how disgusting it is....then go to the bathroom and shave of their pubes so they can look like a good little girl for their man...so they can look super sexy in that little schoolgirl outfit he bought because...aw baby (yes calling her baby! lets fucking infantile her while we are there) you look so special in that outfit..maybe just this once you can call me daddy?.......
    and as you lie there and marvel at how hard your man is...how strong he thrusts between your naked thighs...you can tell yourself its ok....just don't wonder (heaven forbid) who it is your husband or partner is thinking about as he thrusts deep, eyes closed, lips silently moving.....

    Then again, maybe you just shave or wax cause it feels , oh so good getting your pubes ripped out
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    I have looked back over the discussions on this thread, and wish to add this much on the matter - ultimatly I do, personally, find underage stories to be reprehenible, that is my opinion and I will respect anyone elses who agrees or disagrees.

    HOWEVER, what I think does need to be done is that any rules on the matter laid down at this sight need to be followed; the rules also need to be clear, concise and easy for everyone to understand.

    Know this much from my own experiences; I have talked with those who are pedophiles, looked into the eyes of madness and darkness of humanity at the most perverse and dealt with the damage they have inflicted on so many others. In harming even one child they shatter more than that one life, they shatter the lives of their families, their communities and so much more done.

    Also, something I seldom tell of to others is I did survive the experience of years of molestation first hand by a uncle trusted by the family. So I am able to understand both sides of the nightmare. And that is what it truly is, a nightmare across all boundaries of lives shattered and torn asunder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard3200 View Post
    I have looked back over the discussions on this thread, and wish to add this much on the matter - ultimatly I do, personally, find underage stories to be reprehenible, that is my opinion and I will respect anyone elses who agrees or disagrees.

    HOWEVER, what I think does need to be done is that any rules on the matter laid down at this sight need to be followed; the rules also need to be clear, concise and easy for everyone to understand.

    Know this much from my own experiences; I have talked with those who are pedophiles, looked into the eyes of madness and darkness of humanity at the most perverse and dealt with the damage they have inflicted on so many others. In harming even one child they shatter more than that one life, they shatter the lives of their families, their communities and so much more done.

    Also, something I seldom tell of to others is I did survive the experience of years of molestation first hand by a uncle trusted by the family. So I am able to understand both sides of the nightmare. And that is what it truly is, a nightmare across all boundaries of lives shattered and torn asunder.
    Well I am truly sorry that happened to you, but with all due respect, unless you are claiming that your uncle was reading stories about it, and that was a causative factor, I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.

    I am in no way attempting to minimize you're suffering, I just don't see what it has to do with fictional stories.
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    *sighs* Are we beating the dead horse again? Well, allow me to poke it for a brief moment before I go back into 'lurking' mode.

    No one here is arguing over the fact that the act itself is an immoral, vile, disgusting, monstrous thing and a nightmare for all those involved. What some are saying is that the written word holds no more or less bearing on those with the mental defect than any other theme or media outlet has on any other person with a mental defect. To put it simply, the written word does not persuade a pedophile to commit an act any more than it persuades someone with homicidal tendencies to commit murder or someone who has thought about rape to go out and rape. Bonanza did not cause a sudden wave of train and stagecoach robbers, SAW did not create a string of serial killers, and Smallville did not see an increase in caped crusaders running around dishing out their own type of protection to the citizens of this great land. Independence Day and Pearl Harbor did have people lining up in droves to join the armed forces. What did give people a cause to rise was 9/11, actions by others, not something put together for entertainment purposes by the media. Because that is what the stories on here, and fiction in general, are meant to do: entertain. It is fiction, it is fantasy, it is make-believe. To quote The Never Ending Story, "It's only a story." If we start banning one type of immoral behavior from fictional media, then we will have to ban it all. Then we would have to start censoring the news. Pretty soon it would all be about the same 3 themes/stories over and over again and that, my friends, would make for some very, very, boring books/movies/graphic novels/lives. And some pretty pissed-off out-of-work actors too .
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    Supporters of ban on pedophile stories
    You all must be incredibly desperate for entertainment
    Ban on violence on women
    Fantasies Can be used against you in Court

    Here is some reading for the newer people.

    Of course I had to give my opinion of this issue because some of our newer members think they are the first to bring this to anyone's attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola Matthews View Post
    Independence Day and Pearl Harbor did have people lining up in droves to join the armed forces.
    Actually, after I saw Independence Day, I immediately set out in my fleet of giant spaceships and invaded another planet with an energy ray that torched their cities, only to be stopped by a computer virus that the primitive life forms somehow managed to make compatible with my advanced computer network that brought down my ships' shields and allowed a drunken cropduster that I had previously captured and experimented on to fly the alien equivalent of a biplane into my flagship kamikaze style and take it down before it could destroy their main base. But now I'm glad for that suspiciously unlikely chain of events, because it forced me to reevaluate my life, and now I see the error of my ways. If not for those primitive aliens that had the courage to do the right thing, I might still be out there among the stars, conquering planet after planet. Curse you, Independence Day, and your addicting glorification of interstellar warfare!
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