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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone watching Pakistan

    Seems like our democratic ally Pakistan is being placed under marshal law to keep from losing power. These guys have nukes, they are trying to keep former Prime minister Bhutto (a woman out of office) and they have been safe haven for Osama Bin Lauden. Should we still be backing their preisdent Musharif?
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    From a purely pragmatic standpoint, I don't have a clue what should be done about this...keep propping this idiot up or throw him to the angry mob. I smell another genocide coming, or at least a revolution that will put some other crazy thug in power. The idealist in me says that at the very least, we should be cutting off aid, and using every bit of leverage we have available. Instead, all I see is kissy-kissy softballs.

    For what it's worth, Musharref certainly makes a mockery of the Bush Administration's "spread democracy all over the world" meme. It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that Musharref has been harboring Bin Laden and aiding the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

    And while we're at it, why is it that we think it's an unmitigated disaster for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons (for which I've still seen no hard evidence), but we think it's just fine that Pakistan, the second most populous Muslim country in the world and an unstable regime to boot, has them?

    It's a world gone mad.
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    well Mushareff (probably spelled it wrong) got into power through miltary force in the first place. he was the Leader of the army. So this is not surprising. He feels backed against a wall and retaliates the only way he knows how. Brute force.

    Due to their strategic location in the middle east Pakistan made a good, yet not properly utilized ally. That's why Bush was all kissy kissy with him. But he was never democratic in the true sense of the word.
    I'm just saying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incubus View Post
    well Mushareff (probably spelled it wrong) got into power through miltary force in the first place. he was the Leader of the army. So this is not surprising. He feels backed against a wall and retaliates the only way he knows how. Brute force.

    Due to their strategic location in the middle east Pakistan made a good, yet not properly utilized ally. That's why Bush was all kissy kissy with him. But he was never democratic in the true sense of the word.
    If he's such a great ally, why didn't he assist us in capturing Bin Laden? Or could it be that the Bush Administration doesn't want to capture him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    If he's such a great ally, why didn't he assist us in capturing Bin Laden? Or could it be that the Bush Administration doesn't want to capture him?
    that's what i mean by not properly utilized ally. he does not want a large population of armed forces parading around in his country starting wars, unrest & killing thousands of people. This stuff is all deeply rooted in geopolitics & strained diplomacy. incase you haven't notice diplomacy is not this administration's forte.
    I'm just saying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incubus View Post
    that's what i mean by not properly utilized ally. he does not want a large population of armed forces parading around in his country starting wars, unrest & killing thousands of people. This stuff is all deeply rooted in geopolitics & strained diplomacy. incase you haven't notice diplomacy is not this administration's forte.
    Yeah, if I look real hard, I sometimes notice that.
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    and plus Bin Laden is a mega important religious leader of millions, has money coming out his ass and ties with who's who in world politics and business. to most he is better of alive than dead so that's no walk in the park. this administration along with, the 'unified coalition' quote unquote know very well that capturing or killing bin laden would not stop terrorism in the least. rather it would escalate aggression across the world.
    I'm just saying.



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    Don't be fooled. Pakistan's political infrastructure still exists, much like Israel's because the U.S. wants it to. They need friendly shores in the middle east. Ironically, the Taliban would have no power if it weren't for idiots like carter and Reagan arming them and helping them fight the Russians who were smart enough to try and stop them when they would have been powerless to resist in 1980-1981.

    And it is a Genocide ocurring in Pakistan right now. Ambushing and arresting their "political activists" (i.e. women, educated people, anyone who isnt a murderous mental case), controlling, the media, attacking their leader, and harboring Al Qeda. Positioning Pakistan as another Afghanistan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    From a purely pragmatic standpoint, I don't have a clue what should be done about this...keep propping this idiot up or throw him to the angry mob. I smell another genocide coming, or at least a revolution that will put some other crazy thug in power. The idealist in me says that at the very least, we should be cutting off aid, and using every bit of leverage we have available. Instead, all I see is kissy-kissy softballs.

    For what it's worth, Musharref certainly makes a mockery of the Bush Administration's "spread democracy all over the world" meme. It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that Musharref has been harboring Bin Laden and aiding the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

    And while we're at it, why is it that we think it's an unmitigated disaster for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons (for which I've still seen no hard evidence), but we think it's just fine that Pakistan, the second most populous Muslim country in the world and an unstable regime to boot, has them?

    It's a world gone mad.
    "No reason to get excited the thief he kindly spoke, there are many here among us who think that life is but a joke. But you and I have been through that and that is not our fate, so let us not speak falsely now the hour is getting late," Dylan of course.

    And now ladies and gentlemen I would like to direct your attention away from Pakistan and Iraq, and Iran, and Israel, and the entire middle east to India. Who we have no control over and will not tolerate more nuclear and miltary threats from Pakistain. Nuclear war is nuclear war no matter starts or finishes it. That's one.

    At the Tin Foil Hat Society Meeting we see the CIA's finger prints all over Musariff to keep that liberal way to truthful bitch form getting in there again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incubus View Post
    well Mushareff (probably spelled it wrong) got into power through miltary force in the first place. he was the Leader of the army. So this is not surprising. He feels backed against a wall and retaliates the only way he knows how. Brute force.

    Due to their strategic location in the middle east Pakistan made a good, yet not properly utilized ally. That's why Bush was all kissy kissy with him. But he was never democratic in the true sense of the word.
    Or President Cheney/Bush could be stacking the deck and setting up the connections for the next couple of decades of string pulling and getting premission from the American public to use torture in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    If he's such a great ally, why didn't he assist us in capturing Bin Laden? Or could it be that the Bush Administration doesn't want to capture him?
    I put this up. I bet Bin Laden had to have a kidney transplant and he probably had it done in the US.
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    M did one good thing......arrest all the lawyers. They are the troublemakers
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    M did one good thing......arrest all the lawyers. They are the troublemakers If this is a double post sorry, it took too long and I stopped it, but maybe it went anyway.
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    Bush doesn't want Bin Laden captured. No way in hell... He provides the perfect recurrring scapegoat for Bush's regime. The Regiment (SAS to Americans) went into Afghanistan to try and root him out, and - this isn't common knowledge, I don't believe) British Administration was told in no uncertain terms to remove the Regiment from their counter-terrorist ops in Afghanistan, for reasons of 'national security and safety.' In other words, Bush was scared that they'd actually get Bin Laden, show up his regime and the American special forces, and remove his leverage over the American population.

    Wanker.
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    Unfortuatly the U.S. Govt. has a long history of propping up dictatorships that abuse their own people.
    Then when the people finally rise up and overthrow the dictators, they remember who sid ewe were on.
    If we hadn't supported the Shah of Iran (a poster child for crimes against humanity) then the extremist in hte middle east wouldn't have been able build the support of the masses.
    Not to paint him in a good light but Hitler gained popularity by "creating" a common enemy for people to blame their problems on.
    As some one once said about Idi Amin (a know cannible and u.s. ally) He might be a son of a bitch but he's our son of a bitch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbler View Post
    I put this up. I bet Bin Laden had to have a kidney
    transplant and he probably had it done in the US.
    I just knew there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the U.S. health care issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakeasy View Post
    Unfortuatly the U.S. Govt. has a long history of propping up dictatorships that abuse their own people.
    Then when the people finally rise up and overthrow the dictators, they remember who sid ewe were on.
    If we hadn't supported the Shah of Iran (a poster child for crimes against humanity) then the extremist in hte middle east wouldn't have been able build the support of the masses.
    Not to paint him in a good light but Hitler gained popularity by "creating" a common enemy for people to blame their problems on.
    As some one once said about Idi Amin (a know cannible and u.s. ally) He might be a son of a bitch but he's our son of a bitch.
    Or, as was once said about a banana republic tinhorn during the Cold War:

    "No, he's just his own son-of-a-bitch."
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    I like the absurdity of Musharref declaring martial law on . . . himself! Does anyone believe there is a real opposition there now?

    Then basically saying he has no interest in leading his country to democracy.

    Then having our own folks characterize his declaration as "extraconstitutional measures" . . . a new high in euphemistic linquistic license.

    lol

    how deliciously embarrassing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by old tool View Post
    I like the absurdity of Musharref declaring martial law on . . . himself! Does anyone believe there is a real opposition there now?

    Then basically saying he has no interest in leading his country to democracy.

    Then having our own folks characterize his declaration as "extraconstitutional measures" . . . a new high in euphemistic linquistic license.

    lol

    how deliciously embarrassing!
    Meanwhile, George Bush, upon being told that Musharref had suspended the Constitution and declared martial law, said: "Wow....you can DO that??"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    Meanwhile, George Bush, upon being told that Musharref had suspended the Constitution and declared martial law, said: "Wow....you can DO that??"
    You're joking?!

    Oh, shit...
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    If free and fair elections were held today in Pakistan, fundamentalist Islamic groups would take control of the country and it would be another state like Iran.

    Frankly I think we're better off with Musharraf in power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    You're joking?!

    Oh, shit...
    Yes, I'm joking...maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukkake Bunny View Post
    If free and fair elections were held today in Pakistan, fundamentalist Islamic groups would take control of the country and it would be another state like Iran.

    Frankly I think we're better off with Musharraf in power.
    Which is exactly what we did in Iran...prop up an wildly unpopular dictator (the Shah, in this case), until the revolutionaries threw him out, and ever since then, we've been The Great Satan. Will we never learn?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    Which is exactly what we did in Iran...prop up an wildly unpopular dictator (the Shah, in this case), until the revolutionaries threw him out, and ever since then, we've been The Great Satan. Will we never learn?
    To the Muslim extremists we are always the Great Satan. It doesn't matter what we do. They don't need a reason or an excuse. Their faith gives them all the justification they need to hate anyone that is not Muslim. Often times even that is not good enough since they spend more time fighting amongst themselves then with the West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukkake Bunny View Post
    If free and fair elections were held today in Pakistan, fundamentalist Islamic groups would take control of the country and it would be another state like Iran.

    Frankly I think we're better off with Musharraf in power.
    And then we have fundamentalists with Nukes. Not a recipe for peaceful relations. There should be some kind of clause in the treaties or something. If you have nukes and your country is overthrown by unstable or hostile elements, or it's in danger of it, other countries have the right to come in and secure your nuclear arsenal and/or remove it to a more secure location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeZula View Post
    To the Muslim extremists we are always the Great Satan. It doesn't matter what we do. They don't need a reason or an excuse. Their faith gives them all the justification they need to hate anyone that is not Muslim. Often times even that is not good enough since they spend more time fighting amongst themselves then with the West.

    -S-
    It probably won't surprise you when I say I don't believe that for a minute. To the extent that they hate us, it has nothing to do with our being infidels, it has everything to do with our foreign policy. We've given the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Saudis (other than the members of the royal family) and the Pakistanis lots of great reasons to hate the United States.

    Now go ahead and make your case for holy war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeZula View Post
    And then we have fundamentalists with Nukes. Not a recipe for peaceful relations. There should be some kind of clause in the treaties or something. If you have nukes and your country is overthrown by unstable or hostile elements, or it's in danger of it, other countries have the right to come in and secure your nuclear arsenal and/or remove it to a more secure location.

    -S-
    I'm a lot more worried about the U.S. nuclear arsenal...followed by the Russian one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    It probably won't surprise you when I say I don't believe that for a minute. To the extent that they hate us, it has nothing to do with our being infidels, it has everything to do with our foreign policy. We've given the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Saudis (other than the members of the royal family) and the Pakistanis lots of great reasons to hate the United States.

    Now go ahead and make your case for holy war.
    Typical leftist apologetic response. I expected no less. But I don't need to make the case, their holy book does it for me. It is preached by Mullahs and Imams all over the world that Jihad is the duty of all Muslims. Fact, I'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    I'm a lot more worried about the U.S. nuclear arsenal...followed by the Russian one.
    Naturally. Because America has a long history of threatening nuclear response when it doesn't get it's way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeZula View Post
    Typical leftist apologetic response. I expected no less. But I don't need to make the case, their holy book does it for me. It is preached by Mullahs and Imams all over the world that Jihad is the duty of all Muslims. Fact, I'm afraid.

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    And it's your fear that threatens the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeZula View Post
    Naturally. Because America has a long history of threatening nuclear response when it doesn't get it's way.

    -S-
    I have it on good authority that the U.S. doesn't always just threaten.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    I have it on good authority that the U.S. doesn't always just threaten.
    Mhmm. And when's the last time they used a nuke as a threat for non-compliance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    And it's your fear that threatens the world.
    No, it's their genocidal hatred that threatens the world. Even a casual study of their history backs up these things I say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeZula View Post
    No, it's their genocidal hatred that threatens the world. Even a casual study of their history backs up these things I say.

    -S-
    Really? For a billion or so people bent on genocide, they haven't inflicted much damage. Nowhere near the damage we've inflicted on Iraq, for example.

    And if what you say is true, explain to me the Bush Administration's policy of supplying weapons, nuclear or otherwise, to the likes of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

    Your fear-mongering, on the other hand, threatens to start World War III.
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    Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about cricket!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunky View Post
    Damn, I thought this thread was going to be about cricket!
    No Chunky that's Polo,,,,,,,,remember,,my stick and gogggles,,lmao
    Ok gals lets get down to business, you suck me and I eat you,and we toast to good fucking.
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    why is our administraition, and the free-press for that matter, so worried about a guy who is president and commander of the army?

    why is Bush telling another leader that it is wrong to be both a president and that country's armed-forces ultimate commander?

    we in the US have the very same situation. the only difference is our president never served in the armed forces he is commanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeway View Post
    why is our administraition, and the free-press for that matter, so worried about a guy who is president and commander of the army?

    why is Bush telling another leader that it is wrong to be both a president and that country's armed-forces ultimate commander?

    we in the US have the very same situation. the only difference is our president never served in the armed forces he is commanding.
    Maybe it's kind of a Castro hangover.

    But now that I think about it, Saddam Hussein used to wear a military uni too. So there it is.
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    also, in the history of politics, which is millinum-long and filthy, Bhutto is perhaps the most corrupt politician there ever was. What is she even doing back in her country of victims? has she already spent the billion dollars worth of bribes she accepted?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimiko View Post
    Maybe it's kind of a Castro hangover.

    But now that I think about it, Saddam Hussein used to wear a military uni too. So there it is.
    but explain the western-press's hypocracy! And our govt's...

    Our president is also the commander-in-chief, for chri$t sakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeway View Post
    but explain the western-press's hypocracy! And our govt's...

    Our president is also the commander-in-chief, for chri$t sakes.

    If you are looking for impossible answers, any one of the 'god' threads would be less of a challenge than explaining our hypocrisy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeway View Post
    but explain the western-press's hypocracy! And our govt's...

    Our president is also the commander-in-chief, for chri$t sakes.
    Don't give him any ideas. Next thing you know, he'll don his flight suit and codpiece.
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