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  1. #1
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    Default Help with the 14 year old girl (women's opinion)

    Hey sorry this isn't going where you think it is. I am a fairly liberal guy when it comes to sex and I'm more than willing to accept a multitude of opinions and values but here's a situation I see a problem in.

    My 14 year old niece is a great girl away from her friends and mother. She's obviously facing a world of challenges in her home life that my wife and I aren't going to be able to fix magically by going back into the past so we have to work with what we have. What do we have?

    14 year old girl that not only has an 18 year old boyfriend... wait for it... wait for it... but has been having regular threesomes with him and his friend whose apparently even a little older. ... Hurray!?!? I've told her I want to talk to her on the phone if she wants to, she's got some respect for me and thinks I have some brains and I'd like to get her to settle down with her sex life.

    FOR THE WOMEN: What do you think of me phrasing the "talk" like this:
    I. "I know you probably guessed this but I don't agree with your current decisions about your body at this age. You're jumping into a very risky lifestyle right off the bat."
    II. "You've attained the normative sexual experience of a woman five years older, so if you stopped right now (and you should), you could coast on your laurels for the next 5 years and not miss a minute of experience".
    III. "I know you'll be upset about breaking up with this guy, and so will he, but this is part of growing up. Yes that means break up with him tonight even if you are in love. You're suppose to be in love with your first, that's normal, however this is your first. You have a lot of maturity to gain before you really understand love and if you love this man." Worst case here, she says this isn't her first and it's a lot more sex than I thought.
    IV. "Life is about having fun AND hard work. You've been doing all the fun stuff and no hard work. You need to seek a balance and that means a few years of catching up on the work stuff. I'm sorry but that's just life"
    V. "Yes you're mother is an idiot, sorry you can't change that. You can always talk to your aunt (my wife) about how that's going to play out over time and the many ways life can evolve because of it. You don't want to be like your mother, and you are nearly there and you will become her if you keep going down this path."

    Obviously if this was my child... well let's face it, it wouldn't be, but if it was I would handle things differently. I'm her uncle and would like to play the "soft power" or "uncle that treats me like an adult" angle.

    In no world does this end with me banging my niece, but if you need to write a story about it be my guest. Do the women reading this agree with my tactic? I sure would like her to get to thinking about something other than sex and what she's doing tonight. She needs to start thinking long term (one year, five year, ten year), and I want to push her that way.

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. #2
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    Wow, that's a really tough decision you're making. I really don't have any advice that's worth anything, but here's my reaction to your "talk." Starting with #1 is good. But I might then jump to #5. Let her know how much you care about her and will continue to care about her no matter what.

    I appreciate the fact that you're trying to treat her like an adult. However, she's not an adult, despite her activities. She might hate you for this, but seriously consider calling the police and reporting the boyfriend's "friend" for having sex with a minor. You can prove your love for her by protecting her from predators.
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  3. #3
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    im not female by any manner of the term but i do think that you are on the right path but i think that you need to reorder your points

    i agree start with point 1 then go to 5
    4,3 2 back to 5
    you realy do need to show her mainly that you want the best for her and not just for your own morality over her life

    i would also mention almost in passing that this situation could end up with the guy(s) in prison, her pregnant not knowing by who, or even AIDS infected

    my oldest brother has a 16 year old duaghter that comes to stay with me and my wife from time to time
    the girl loves to flirt with the brothers in the club
    but they know that they touch her and ill feed em to the gators
    the club sees my 4 girls as the clubs kids and anyone who as much as thinks of hurting them will not make the first step towards them
    luckily my oldest is only 9 but is 2 grades ahead in school so i have to worry earlier than most do
    but all of my kids know that they can come to me with anything
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    why worry ? you'll probably see her on Suicide Girls . com in a few years

    god bless her
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    Who is she living with who is allowing this to take place? I mean if you know it as her uncle, obviously the parent she lives with knows it, right? I don't know what state she lives in, but I think in most states this is illegal for one thing. These guys are more than 2 years older than her, so "Romeo and Juliet" laws don't apply. They are having sex with a minor and it's illegal and needs to be stopped. It will be up to her parent whether or not to report them.

    You know your relationship with her and how you can talk to her but I think there are some things that need to be addressed since she's decided to be sexually active. She needs to get the Gardasil vaccine to protect her from the HPV virus that causes genital warts and cervical and other cancers. She needs to be on reliable birth control, preferably something she can't forget, so I would recommend the birth control implant. It's about the size of a matchstick and is inserted in the skin under the arm. It releases the same kind of hormones as birth control pills but last for a year and she won't have to remember to take a pill. She does NOT want to be a teenage mother. That's just a ticket to poverty.

    She also needs to use condoms EVERY TIME. HIV is out there and yes it's rare in straight people but is it worth risking her life? Herpes is still out there and while condoms aren't 100% protection, they're a lot better than nothing. 20% of sexually active people in the US have herpes and most are silent carriers. I've had it for 30 years and while it's not the end of the world, it's not fun either. Even gonorrhea is making a comeback and this time there are antibiotic resistant strains.

    Girls get into these situations because they have low self esteem and the attention makes them feel better about themselves. If it were my niece I would talk to her custodial parent about her getting some therapy. She's 14. She shouldn't even be DATING 18 year old MEN. If her custodial parent doesn't take you seriously and the other parent might be better, I'd call the other parent. Maybe she needs to go live with them.

    I'm a former high school teacher so I feel VERY strongly about this.
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    just call the cops on him boom game over
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoxo3922 View Post
    why worry ? you'll probably see her on Suicide Girls . com in a few years

    god bless her
    or she will be a star on MTV, teens with babies...
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    Quote Originally Posted by the fox View Post
    just call the cops on him boom game over
    That's a good way to have your niece disown you and never speak to you again, and start taking her advice from exactly the sort of guys she's currently sleeping wtih instead.
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    What are the laws in your area? Is it illegal to have sex with a 14 year old child? If it is, then your question is answered. You can turn your back and allow her to continue, possibly damaging her for life, or you can protect the child. This is a child we're talking about - not a young woman. I believe the term, although it appears to be consensual, is rape.

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  10. #10
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    ejls with concideration for your position as a mod i will be as tactful as i can be
    what you suggested as to "You can turn your back and allow her to continue" what kind of fucking dope are you smoking, swallowing, and shoving up your ass

    the girl is 14 and is being used like an adult





    call the childrens protective services and open your home
    gain legal gaurdianship and press charges


    this bullshit about any state in the US allowing 14 is complete bullshit
    16 is federal
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  11. #11
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    How do you know about your child niece's sex life?
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  12. #12
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    I'll try to knock out all the questions in one post.
    -"I know her sex life" or variants of because her mother snoops her phone. I approve by the way. Her mother is snooping on the phone because that's her easy way out. In fairness she's a single mother and there are two more children to worry about. Mother is out of rehab... so that's something.
    -Honestly this is my wife's side of the family I'm fairly new to them, but they went through a rough time with the mother in rehab (time #3 now I've been told) and there were kids to pickup from school and homework to do and all of us got in on the act and helped out. I'm gone half the month and my wife is full time plus 50% so we aren't the closest to these children, but they are never far from our thoughts.
    -The 18 year old is apparently getting a come to jesus meeting, followed by a standing threat to call the cops. I'm a little more concerned with my niece than the 18year old moron.
    -Yes her self esteem is low, it gets compounded by a mother who is half in and half out. She doesn't get along with the rest of the family very well, but she knows we worry about the kids so we hear about things when it get's tough.

    I just want my niece to get some good advise from someone she respects, and there are many of the family trying to grab her ear. We'll see if she's open to advise and criticism.

    To the comment about her being on SG.com I don't care as long as she's 18. She's getting lazy and screwing herself out of a good future I think, and that's what I'm trying to head off at the pass.
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  13. #13
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    If there are a lot of family members trying to grab her ear she's going to be defensive and wary. When you're fourteen the last thing you want is advice from people who are so much older than you that they're essentially another species. You need to find some way of approaching her that's different from the standard 'we need to chat because you are a child and I am an adult!' that's so easy to do.

    Perhaps invite her over for a weekend or something, on the grounds that it'll be a nice break for her? Think pizza and movies and veg-on-the-sofa stuff. It gives a chance for her to unwind enough to listen to you -- and it also shows her that you're interested enough, and care enough, to really take a significant amount of time out of your lives to make her feel good.

    She probably wouldn't be able to to articulate that you doing that is appreciated -- who can at fourteen? -- but it will be.

    Good luck, mate. It's a right screwy situation.
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    Ship her off to an all girls school. Do something but you have to come down on her like a ton of bricks. Screw your "relationship". You are not her friend, you are her uncle. She'll get over it.

    ...

    Unless you really don't feel like you should do anything. 14 yr old girls have sex all the time. Sure studies link female teenage promiscuity to higher rates of depression in later life but she'll turn out fine.

    She could also be saddled with a baby. Is she on the pill? She better be or else you'll be taking care of another kid...
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    Ship her off to an all girls school. Do something but you have to come down on her like a ton of bricks. Screw your "relationship". You are not her friend, you are her uncle. She'll get over it.
    Ah, yes, because it's perfectly possible to 'ship her off' like it ain't no thang.

    The girl is fourteen. Her mother almost certainly cannot afford such a school and who's to say she'd take kindly to the idea of an uncle - by marriage, not blood - making that kind of decision?

    And I don't think you've met many wilful fourteen year old girls. Coming down on them 'like a ton of bricks' is a recipe for disaster, deceit, and disgrace.
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    Easy fix take a prybar to her boyfriends face and make it known that if he so much as looks at her again you'll be back with a bannding ring for his balls to castrat him like a bull.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    Ah, yes, because it's perfectly possible to 'ship her off' like it ain't no thang.

    The girl is fourteen. Her mother almost certainly cannot afford such a school and who's to say she'd take kindly to the idea of an uncle - by marriage, not blood - making that kind of decision?

    And I don't think you've met many wilful fourteen year old girls. Coming down on them 'like a ton of bricks' is a recipe for disaster, deceit, and disgrace.

    My cousin is fourteen. You better believe I would lose my mind if she did any of the aforementioned crap. Her privacy would be gone.

    But the OP doesn't have to do anything.

    Women's lives are ruined by teenaged pregnancy. The pill is not for everyone and may include some extreme side effects.

    If the OP doesn't have the will to tell her what she is doing is wrong, he better make sure she's on the pill...
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    Honestly, taking her to church works. This is an area where religion can make a difference.
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    You'd force yourself into her life and lifestyle like that, and you're not even her parent? Either you've got a family dynamic that's unfathomable to me, or you're the epitome of pushy and overbearing.

    Instituting draconian parenting methods on a wilful fourteen year old won't work, because she doesn't see herself as a child any more. She needs to be approached in another manner entirely; a manner that doesn't say, "You're doing it wrong and I am going to stop you!" but a manner that says, "You need to understand the consequences of the road you're going down, and part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your future and making changes."

    But sure. Remove her choices, her freedoms, her privacy, entirely. See where that gets you -- apart from a girl who's screaming like a scalded cat and quite likely to simply abscond one night. Sounds like a fucking brilliant idea.

    [Edit] You say you'd 'lose your mind'. I think the clue to the usefulness of that reaction is in the phrase itself.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    You'd force yourself into her life and lifestyle like that, and you're not even her parent? Either you've got a family dynamic that's unfathomable to me, or you're the epitome of pushy and overbearing.
    Not unfathomable. She's like my sister. I'm an only child. I'm very close to her mother and she and I were like PB&J when I was growing up.

    If my cousin were having under-aged sex, it would hurt my aunt very much because that's the same mistake she made and it really DESTROYED her self esteem and her life.

    Being overbearing works sometimes. Or it doesn't. Either way, I don't want things going down without anyone doing anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    Not unfathomable. She's like my sister. I'm an only child. I'm very close to her mother and she and I were like PB&J when I was growing up.

    If my cousin were having under-aged sex, it would hurt my aunt very much because that's the same mistake she made and it really DESTROYED her self esteem and her life.

    Being overbearing works sometimes. Or it doesn't. Either way, I don't want things going down without anyone doing anything.
    I'd like to see the part where the OP suggested 'doing nothing'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    I'd like to see the part where the OP suggested 'doing nothing'.
    Lecturing her in a calm manner might work, but it probably would not. Then what would you do? Plus, she might even try to play you and act like she's followed your advice when she hasn't.

    I'm just saying what I would do. The OP can do whatever he likes. There's no blood relation either so who gives a fuck, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgerunner View Post
    ejls with concideration for your position as a mod i will be as tactful as i can be
    Don't worry about consideration of position as a mod; just worry about actually understanding what was posted before you reply to it.

    what you suggested as to "You can turn your back and allow her to continue" what kind of fucking dope are you smoking, swallowing, and shoving up your ass
    Where does ejls say that it's a good idea? All I can see is that's an available option - well, not doing anything is ALWAYS an available option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodtime2 View Post
    Easy fix take a prybar to her boyfriends face and make it known that if he so much as looks at her again you'll be back with a bannding ring for his balls to castrat him like a bull.
    How does that fix HER desire to be in a sexual relationship?
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    Lecturing her in a calm manner might work, but it probably would not. Then what would you do? Plus, she might even try to play you and act like she's followed your advice when she hasn't.

    I'm just saying what I would do. The OP can do whatever he likes. There's no blood relation either so who gives a fuck, right?
    And you'll notice my suggesting didn't involve 'lecturing', and neither did the OP's. You've got your back up about something that's not even been suggested. The moment you try and 'lecture' a child you've failed. They don't respond well to being told what to do and how to think, because they want to feel like their opinions and viewpoints are valid considerations. Lecturing them also goes no way to teaching them how to act like adults.

    And the snippy comment about being blood relation is just laughable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    And you'll notice my suggesting didn't involve 'lecturing', and neither did the OP's. You've got your back up about something that's not even been suggested. The moment you try and 'lecture' a child you've failed. They don't respond well to being told what to do and how to think, because they want to feel like their opinions and viewpoints are valid considerations. Lecturing them also goes no way to teaching them how to act like adults.

    And the snippy comment about being blood relation is just laughable.
    I disagree. The OP can do whatever. My views are posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    I disagree. The OP can do whatever. My views are posted.
    Were you lectured as a child, or did you parents sit you down and talk candidly not about the 'shoulds' and 'should nots' but the reasons, the consequences, and the importance of self-discipline and making well-reasoned decisions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    Were you lectured as a child, or did you parents sit you down and talk candidly not about the 'shoulds' and 'should nots' but the reasons, the consequences, and the importance of self-discipline and making well-reasoned decisions?
    Children do usually need to be lectured; they're too young to understand the reasons and consequences. But we are not talking about a child; nobody aged 14 is still a child. She will be two or three years into adolescence, at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyesey View Post
    Children do usually need to be lectured; they're too young to understand the reasons and consequences. But we are not talking about a child; nobody aged 14 is still a child. She will be two or three years into adolescence, at least.
    I should have been more explicit in the age range I was referring to, yeah. See the 'she doesn't view herself as a child' comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    ;...did your parents sit you down and talk candidly not about the 'shoulds' and 'should nots' but the reasons, the consequences, and the importance of self-discipline and making well-reasoned decisions?
    Actually, they did exactly this. My other cousins were not raised this way. Their mother told them to do something, she threatened them with force and used a profound amount of insults and shame. My cousins are so much stronger and more disciplined than I am today. One of my cousins (aged 27) had a rebellious phase in her early 20s that landed her in a psychiatric hospital for several instances--but even today she is way more successful than me.

    Being hard on your kids induces success. What good is reason if one doesn't have the virtue to utilize it?
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    I actually just talked to my mother about this thread topic. She said yelling at the girl is useless. Go after the boys and threaten them with the law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    I actually just talked to my mother about this thread topic. She said yelling at the girl is useless. Go after the boys and threaten them with the law.
    How does threatening the boys with anything, affect HER desire to be in a sexual relationship?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyesey View Post
    How does threatening the boys with anything, affect HER desire to be in a sexual relationship?
    It doesn't. it just takes one dick out of the picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    Actually, they did exactly this. My other cousins were not raised this way. Their mother told them to do something, she threatened them with force and used a profound amount of insults and shame. My cousins are so much stronger and more disciplined than I am today. One of my cousins (aged 27) had a rebellious phase in her early 20s that landed her in a psychiatric hospital for several instances--but even today she is way more successful than me.

    Being hard on your kids induces success. What good is reason if one doesn't have the virtue to utilize it?
    First: it's not your parent's/parents' fault that you didn't acquire the lessons in self-discipline they were teaching. Second: 'rebellious phases', at the normal level, do not result in psychiatric treatment. They result in hangovers, and perhaps the occasional night in the cells if you're a real tearaway.

    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    It doesn't. it just takes one dick out of the picture.
    This is wallpapering over the cracks, not solving the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    First: it's not your parent's/parents' fault that you didn't acquire the lessons in self-discipline they were teaching.
    Absolutely not. We are all individuals. But being hard on your adolescents and imposing selective amounts of shame is more effective than rational suggestion. My two cents.
    Even Charles Murray agrees that environment does play a substantial role in determining IQ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    This is wallpapering over the cracks, not solving the problem.
    The problem of her desire is not one for anyone to solve.
    Even Charles Murray agrees that environment does play a substantial role in determining IQ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    Absolutely not. We are all individuals. But being hard on your adolescents and imposing selective amounts of shame is more effective than rational suggestion. My two cents.
    Well, I'm more interested in the idea that you teach your children to grow up to be adults who don't have rebellious phases, who are able to externalise what's going on inside maturely and productively, and who -- ultimately -- are your friends, and well-rounded people who don't resent you for your actions as a parent. My parents certainly didn't let me run around the streets at midnight, but they very rarely laid down the law with an iron fist, they never tried in any way to make me feel that I was worth any less than I am, and encouraged me in almost everything I did. Now, they're my friends first and my parents second. I do not believe for a moment that we would have been so close if they'd 'imposed selective amounts of shame'. There's a difference between being reasonable and firm, and being 'hard'.

    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    The problem of her desire is not one for anyone to solve.
    Correct! But how she reacts to it is a problem. I don't for a second imagine that she was pressured into having sex with this eighteen-year-old. Quite the contrary. It would be a social status symbol in many circles, and an affirmation (to her) of how adult she is. She can have an adult, sexual relationship with an adult, so she believes!

    She needs to be advised on how to react appropriately to sexual urges.
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    The problem is one needs to have virtue to heed rational advice. If one has an excessive amount of hubris, the advice is forsaken...

    For people who are deficient in virtue, domination is best. It does not have to be a permanent dynamic though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by origen01 View Post
    The problem is one needs to have virtue to heed rational advice. If one has an excessive amount of hubris, the advice is forsaken...

    For people who are deficient in virtue, domination is best. It's not a permanent solution dynamic though...
    Are you really trying to rationalise the likelihood of this girl listening to someone treating her like a young adult (as opposed to a recalcitrant child) using the ideas of virtue and hubris?!

    My mind is blown.

    The girl is not 'deficient in virtue', the girl is fourteen. And, frankly, saying that it's not a permanent solution once again proves that you're papering over the cracks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    Are you really trying to rationalise the likelihood of this girl listening to someone treating her like a young adult (as opposed to a recalcitrant child) using the ideas of virtue and hubris?!

    My mind is blown.

    The girl is not 'deficient in virtue', the girl is fourteen. And, frankly, saying that it's not a permanent solution once again proves that you're papering over the cracks.
    She is deficient in virtue. She is not making an honest mistake. She knows she's upsetting the family...

    Now if discourses on ethics were sufficient in themselves to make men virtuous, ‘large fees and many’ (as Theogonis says) ‘would they win’ quite rightly, and to provide such discourse would be all that is wanted. But as it is, we see that although theories have power to stimulate and encourage generous youths, and, given an inborn nobility of character and a genuine love of what is noble, can make them susceptible to the influence of virtue, yet they are powerless to stimulate the mass of mankind to moral nobility. For it is the nature of the many to be amenable to fear but not to a sense of honor, and to abstain from evil not because of its baseness but because of the penalties it entails; since, living as they do by passion, they pursue the pleasures akin to their nature, and the things that will procure those pleasures, and avoid the opposite pains, but have not even a notion of what is noble and truly pleasant, having never tasted true pleasure. What theory can reform the natures of men like these? To dislodge by argument habits long firmly rooted in their characters is difficult if not impossible. We may doubtless think ourselves fortunate if we attain some measure of virtue when all the things believed to make men virtuous are ours.

    Aristotle
    Book IV, Nicomachean Ethics

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