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Thread: Burma Cyclone

  1. #1
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    Default Burma Cyclone

    I haven't seen another thread on this subject yet....so I'm starting one.

    What the fuck is up with this world?

    A nation is in danger of losing 1.5 million of its inhabitants.....and 4 army type blokes in charge of that nation are refusing outside help.

    That's fucking mad.

    And, ok, before anyone starts calling me politically naive, I'm aware that those 4 army type blokes are probably not too keen to have outsiders crawling all over their domain.....and that China probably isn't too keen on that either.....

    BUT

    It's 1.5 million people at stake here......so I say fuck the politics and mobilise every air force available and just invade its airspace....and bomb the place with kindness.....ie food and fresh water for starters......

    What are the 4 army type blokes going to do?

    Order all planes illegally entering their airspace to be shot down because they are coming to help those stricken?

    Ha ha....I think not somehow.

    Cut the red tape into pretty ribbons.....and just get the fuck on with the business of saving lives.
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    You may be interested in Stumbler's "Anyone Watching Myanmar?" thread.

    Myanmar is the country formerly known as Burma.
    Last edited by x__orion; 05-11-2008 at 07:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by x__orion View Post
    You may be interested in Stumbler's "Anyone Watching Myanmar?" thread.

    Myanmar is the country formerly known as Burma.
    Ok...ta for the pointer....

    You could have posted a link you lazy bastard!!!
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    I noticed that also but am actually encouraged that someone else thinks this mess is so fucked up it deserves a thread.

    So TCL yeah this is one strange deal and the more we look into it the more complicated it gets. But you make a couple of really good points here. One being the amount of people at risk (some of which are bound to be really beautiful women just to show I will never change) and the other is the suggestion that we bomb them with kindness and life giving supplies.

    Someone even put up the CIA stats on the other thread and they do have an air force but not for long if they decided to go up against the US or UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbler View Post
    I noticed that also but am actually encouraged that someone else thinks this mess is so fucked up it deserves a thread.

    So TCL yeah this is one strange deal and the more we look into it the more complicated it gets. But you make a couple of really good points here. One being the amount of people at risk (some of which are bound to be really beautiful women just to show I will never change) and the other is the suggestion that we bomb them with kindness and life giving supplies.

    Someone even put up the CIA stats on the other thread and they do have an air force but not for long if they decided to go up against the US or UK.
    Apologies for stealing your thunder as such, but thanks for the reply.

    It certainly is one strange deal indeed.

    I've read reports that all aid and resources are being aimed at those connected with the military regime and the rest of the 'peasants' can just basically just fuck off and die.

    It's too appalling for words.

    Ok...Burma has no real financial (bottom line) value to anyone....but what better way to fuck those 4 generals up the arse with a broomstick than to just invade the place and give help where it's needed....without a shot being fired.

    And to think those same 4 generals went about business as normal and held a fucking referendum that would guarantee them same 4 sad sacks of shit to be voted back into power again?

    I'm in the mood to kick ass.

    Can't you tell?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tightcuntlover View Post
    Apologies for stealing your thunder as such, but thanks for the reply.

    It certainly is one strange deal indeed.

    I've read reports that all aid and resources are being aimed at those connected with the military regime and the rest of the 'peasants' can just basically just fuck off and die.

    It's too appalling for words.

    Ok...Burma has no real financial (bottom line) value to anyone....but what better way to fuck those 4 generals up the arse with a broomstick than to just invade the place and give help where it's needed....without a shot being fired.

    And to think those same 4 generals went about business as normal and held a fucking referendum that would guarantee them same 4 sad sacks of shit to be voted back into power again?

    I'm in the mood to kick ass.

    Can't you tell?
    You got all that right and only one thing wrong.

    The military fuckers are using this as a way to force people to support their constitutional referendum which makes their military power official.

    In addition what little aid they are allowing into the country is being seized, and repackaged with the General's name on the packages to make it look like they are the ones doing.

    The point of clarification however is that Burma/Myanmar appears to have some pretty good oil and natural gas reserves with all the major oil companies having a stake in them both from the US and the UK. That's what is starting to make this whole deal smell more than a little fishy.
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    Yes, Stumbler's thread has been on the front page for 4 days now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbler View Post
    You got all that right and only one thing wrong.

    The military fuckers are using this as a way to force people to support their constitutional referendum which makes their military power official.

    In addition what little aid they are allowing into the country is being seized, and repackaged with the General's name on the packages to make it look like they are the ones doing.

    The point of clarification however is that Burma/Myanmar appears to have some pretty good oil and natural gas reserves with all the major oil companies having a stake in them both from the US and the UK. That's what is starting to make this whole deal smell more than a little fishy.
    Ok....but, end of the day, 4 guys parading themselves around in military uniform.......

    WTF is going on there?

    I can go down the local shops and buy a pair of combats for a fiver.

    And yes.....Burma has oil....I know that......

    What I don't fully understand is why they will not let outside help in given such a crisis.

    And my point still remains clear.....

    What would those 'generals' do if Burma's airspace was invaded.....unilaterally.....with aid?

    And why isn't it happening?
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    yea, when you don't allow suffering people to recieve aid, that's pretty fucked up
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    why not further destabilize the country through overwhelming force in the name of good intentions?

    what could possibly go wrong?
    I'm just saying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incubus View Post
    why not further destabilize the country through overwhelming force in the name of good intentions?

    what could possibly go wrong?
    Get real mate.....

    We are talking about a nation whose inhabitants have no clue as to what is going on in the rest of the world....

    Go spend the rest of YOUR life growing rice.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tightcuntlover View Post
    Get real mate.....

    We are talking about a nation whose inhabitants have no clue as to what is going on in the rest of the world....

    Go spend the rest of YOUR life growing rice.......
    incase you haven't been watching the news, there's this country called Iraq....
    I'm just saying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incubus View Post
    incase you haven't been watching the news, there's this country called Iraq....
    I'm quite geographically aware ....thank you.......

    I think you'll find the people of Iraq are in receipt of a lot more information than those in the rice fields of Burma.

    When will you stop being an asshole?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tightcuntlover View Post
    I'm quite geographically aware ....thank you.......

    I think you'll find the people of Iraq are in receipt of a lot more information than those in the rice fields of Burma.

    When will stop being an asshole?

    look who's talking. its not right to call someone an asshole because they disagree with you.

    its all well and good to send in the big guns and take over the place but what's the exit strategy? post war? who's gonna establish order and be responsible for the country's economy and social structure?

    think outside the box. no country wants to add babysitting a third world post military control communist back water country to their things to do list.

    politics is alot more complicated
    I'm just saying.



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    some people are just to proud to take help!!
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    http://www.mizzima.com/

    NARGIS' IMPACT An eyewitness account of situation in Rangoon division
    An eyewitness account of situation in Rangoon division Mizzima News Monday, 12 May 2008 21:29
    Rangoon - Despite the government's restriction on journalists and foreign aid workers traveling to places in the Irrawaddy delta and parts of Rangoon division, which were the worst hit by Cyclone Nargis, Mizzima's correspondent in Rangoon was able to sneak into the Rangoon division's Kunchankone and Kwunchaung towns.

    An eyewitness account of Mizzima's correspondent:

    "Help us." read a signboard on the road leading to Kunchankone. Little else really needs to be said. Ten days since Cyclone Nargis tore through Burma's low lying delta region, the relief that has arrived cannot match the sheer enormity of the needs of the victims.

    In Kunchankone, the local Red Cross run disbursement centre allots each family a single egg and a packet of instant noodles per day. Elsewhere, people who walk to distribution centres from villages off the main road report receiving 4.2 kilograms of rice per family per week. This failure to adequately meet the needs of Burma's cyclone-affected population is not simply a function of the government's actions or inactions - but more than anything a testament to the plight of millions of people.

    As a result of the burgeoning humanitarian crisis in the wake of Nargis, the length of the main road between the town of Kunchankone in Rangoon Division and Dardaye in Irrawaddy Division - the country's worst hit, is now lined with groups of people desperate for additional aid from private donors who drive in vehicles loaded with rice, water, food and medical supplies. Thus far at least, the authorities have not attempted to disrupt such disbursements. As a truck or car stops along the route, crowds of survivors - often led by sprinting children - run to receive whatever assistance may be forthcoming. For a population in need, the people are remarkably well-behaved, for the most part waiting with discipline their turn and refraining from physically impeding traffic that does not stop.

    The private aid itself, some funded by Burmese residing abroad, arrives mainly as a result of Rangoon's civilian, business and religious communities - with a truckload of rice from a Muslim organization welcomed at the steps of a monastic complex now in shambles, the once sloping and sheltered stairway up to the pagoda is a mass of twisted metal and jagged concrete.

    Yet this umbilical chord of relief also points to another fact - villages removed from the main road and its vicinity stand virtually ignored. The road to the Irrawaddy River village of Kwunchaung is a journey of sadness. A woman walks the road still searching for five members of her family lost in the chaos of the storm. Empty space is all that remains of clusters of huts and homes - the un-retrieved full sacks of rice an ominous indication as to the fate of the former inhabitants. The occasional overwhelming stench of rotting flesh distinctly points to what lies beneath the debris and amidst flooded rice paddy now inundated with saltwater.

    In the village of Kwunchaung, having lost at least 57 persons out of the pre-cyclone population of some 800, rebuilding has already begun. With the monsoon rains quickly approaching, shelter is at a premium. We are the first aid convoy to arrive in Kwunchaung, nine days after the cyclone, and re-hydration supplements are in desperate need if the tragedy of the cyclone is not to be repeated in the disease - some families are already said to be suffering from diarrhea.

    Fishermen, a short walk from the village to the Irrawaddy, speak of clinging to mango trees as the storm raged. Receding waters have left behind a river shore dotted with decomposing carcasses of humans and animals alike - several grossly disfigured. From a shallow boat, the sight of the occasional fisherman along the muddy embankment is dominated by what is otherwise a verifiable wasteland - the former greenery and its inhabitants simply swept away. The heart of Burma's rice bowl, once known as the rice bowl of Asia, is devastated. And such devastation bodes of heretofore untold, negative consequences for Burma's domestic rice supply in a global environment already witnessing an appreciable increase in the price of rice.

    As for the family with the "Help Us." signboard, the government has since ordered the placard removed, as it presumably does not portray an image of the delta in the aftermath of Nargis the government wishes to be seen.
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    http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=489

    Edge on the Disaster

    Burma’s Generals—Blending Nazi-like Thought, Astrology, Brutality and Greed

    Benedict Rogers May 12th 2008 Burma's Generals
    Over a week since Cyclone Nargis struck Burma, the death toll is estimated to be at least 100,000—and still rising. Yet as the bodies decompose, Burma’s ruling Generals continue to refuse access to international aid workers. The limited aid supplies that have reached Burma have been seized by the military, either to distribute themselves for propaganda purposes or, according to some reports, to sell on the streets. And now the regime has taken a three-day public holiday and closed its embassies, causing another delay for international aid workers trying to find a way in to help.
    Who are these Generals who are prepared to stand by and watch while thousands of their people die and more than 1.5 million are left homeless? How could they ignore the warnings they received of the cyclone’s advance? India issued 41 warnings from April 26 but the regime did nothing. Why?
    The regime is the latest in a succession of military juntas which have ruled Burma since Ne Win took power in a coup in 1962. In 1990, following a mass uprising two years earlier which was violently suppressed, the military held elections. Despite the junta’s efforts to intimidate and harass voters into supporting their continued rule, the opposition’s National League for Democracy (NLD) led by Nobel Laureate Aung San Suu Kyi won 82 percent of the parliamentary seats. The military, however, disregarded the results, imprisoned the victors, and intensified its grip on power.
    This regime, known as the State Peace and Development Council (SPDC), consists of a cluster of Generals. The top leader, Senior General Than Shwe, in his seventies and in failing health, is reclusive and intransigent. He has refused to enter into talks with Aung San Suu Kyi, the NLD, or any of the major ethnic nationalities in Burma—a call they have repeatedly made in vain. He and his colleagues are guided primarily not by any political ideology, but simply by a desperate determination to hold onto power at all costs.
    There are, however, two other guiding sets of beliefs behind the regime besides simply power. The first is an extreme Burman Buddhist nationalism, expressed in a phrase which has echoes of the Nazis—“One race, one language, one religion.”
    The Generals are ultra-nationalist and have a xenophobic, racist hatred of non-Burmans—within the country and abroad. That is why the regime is carrying out a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Karen, Karenni, and Shan ethnic groups in eastern Burma, and cultural genocide against the Chin people in western Burma. Ethnic groups are unable to teach or speak their own languages in government-run schools. Even ethnic groups that no longer fight armed resistance struggles, such as the Kachin and the Mon, continue to suffer forced labour, land confiscation, religious persecution, rape, and sexual violence.
    The Generals are ostentatiously Buddhist—when it is politically convenient. But in truth, they manipulate the whole concept of religion, propagandistically appearing on television visiting monasteries, praying, and giving alms. Their charade convinced the new Thai Prime Minister who, following his recent visit to Burma, declared that he thought the Generals were “good Buddhists” because they “meditate.”
    The regime uses its distorted, perverted form of Buddhism as a tool to suppress non-Buddhists. Christians, particularly among the Chin and Kachin, face severe restrictions and discrimination. Chin Christians have been forced at gunpoint to tear down crosses on hill-tops, and build Buddhist pagodas in their place—often contributing the costs and material for construction themselves. Children have been lured from Christian families and placed in Buddhist monasteries, where they are forced to become novice monks. Churches face serious difficulties in obtaining permission to build a new church, renovate or extend an existing church, or hold meetings other than their Sunday services. Christians are denied promotion in government service. Muslims among the Rohingya ethnic group face similar persecution—their mosques are destroyed, access to education denied and permission to marry refused.
    Yet despite the Generals’ overt Buddhism, last September they did not hesitate to brutally crush protests led by tens of thousands of Buddhist monks. The military beat, arrested, jailed, tortured, and killed monks—and while the number of those killed is unknown, it is believed to have been in the hundreds.
    The second guiding thought behind the regime is astrology. Than Shwe has a personal astrologer, just as Ne Win did before him. One of the reasons the regime moved the capital from Rangoon to the remote jungle location of Naypidaw was, according to speculation, that Than Shwe’s astrologers advised him to do so. In 1988, Ne Win demonetised much of the currency because his astrologers told him his lucky number was nine—and so he invalidated notes which were not multiples of nine, causing millions of people to lose savings overnight.
    The Generals live in luxury while their people starve. Two years ago Than Shwe spent $300,000 on his daughter’s wedding, where wedding presents amounted to $50 million. Recent reports indicated that the regime has only put $5 million into helping the victims of the cyclone. More than $40 million has been pledged by various other countries, but the Generals are still only permitting a trickle to get through.
    On May 10, the regime went ahead with a referendum on a new constitution, despite the devastation that the country was dealing with following the cyclone. The referendum was a complete sham—millions were already disenfranchised, and those who could vote were intimidated or forced into voting “yes.” In some cases, local officials even cast the ballots on behalf of voters—ensuring the result the regime desired. The constitution itself will enshrine military rule. The military will hold 25 percent of the parliamentary seats, but its proxy parties will doubtless contest elections and probably rig them to win. According to the constitution, the President must be someone with military experience, who has not been married to a foreigner, and does not have children who have foreign citizenship. On all three counts, Aung San Suu Kyi—whose husband was British—is excluded.
    The regime is guilty of every possible human rights violation, amounting to crimes against humanity, and possibly a case of genocide. The Generals have presided over campaigns involving the widespread, systematic use of rape as a weapon of war, forced labour, forced relocation, and the destruction of over 3,200 villages in eastern Burma since 1996. Over a million people are internally displaced as a result of military offensives against civilians. And all this was going on before Cyclone Nargis. This is a regime which has only one care—self-preservation and control—and as long as they perceive an international presence in Burma as a threat, they will continue to refuse access and manipulate aid.
    Benedict Rogers is the author of A Land Without Evil: Stopping the Genocide of Burma's Karen People (Monarch, 2004), and has visited Burma and its borderlands more than 20 times. He also serves as Deputy Chairman of the UK Conservative Party Human Rights Commission.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumbler View Post
    You got all that right and only one thing wrong.

    The military fuckers are using this as a way to force people to support their constitutional referendum which makes their military power official.

    In addition what little aid they are allowing into the country is being seized, and repackaged with the General's name on the packages to make it look like they are the ones doing.

    The point of clarification however is that Burma/Myanmar appears to have some pretty good oil and natural gas reserves with all the major oil companies having a stake in them both from the US and the UK. That's what is starting to make this whole deal smell more than a little fishy.
    Please don't fall into the media traps. Try some of this "GOP leader quits over Myanmar Junta Ties" See the Newsweek Story on Doug Goodyear. Man pick by McCain to run Convention.
    Thiland was given explor rights for parts of Burma this week.
    The firm that Goodyear worked for was responsible for devising Media releases .
    I think you will find that Bush spends more on professional advertising and media, than all of health care.
    Last edited by ThornyRose; 05-13-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tightcuntlover View Post
    Ok....but, end of the day, 4 guys parading themselves around in military uniform.......

    WTF is going on there?

    I can go down the local shops and buy a pair of combats for a fiver.

    And yes.....Burma has oil....I know that......

    What I don't fully understand is why they will not let outside help in given such a crisis.

    And my point still remains clear.....

    What would those 'generals' do if Burma's airspace was invaded.....unilaterally.....with aid?

    And why isn't it happening?
    Some points. The need for aid is a media hype. They refused to pay for outside aid for it carried with it the military. UN was the cover, but all the staff that wanted to come in with the aid was US military, and thier own media and camera people to get credit for UN and USA for the aid.. Read the articles out today about Doug Goodyear (John McCain convention manager) resigns because of his firm and it's connections with Burma Military.
    Some one needs to start a thread about the money made off of supplying aid the countrys..
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