Drill, baby, drill!

[Foeofthelance]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

You're not at all alone. Life tends to be pretty dang persistent in it's will to carry on, is all. Actually killing people, animals, and plants is quite a bit tougher then the average, "civilized", western person assumes it is.
(injuring is a completely different question, of course)

Nah, I'm aware of that. I just happen to live in a major suburban area less than forty minutes outside of New York City. So if there is a major incident, I'm smack dab in the path of a panicking herd of 18,000,000 souls. I figure the amount of collateral damage to infrastructure would make piecing anything back together interesting to say the least.

Hmmm, typical doomsday scenario, say infection based? I'd say maybe 5,000 survivors for the entire area. We could get by on salvage for maybe two or three years, five at the most. By that time, though, we should have a decent grasp on farming again. There's plenty of seed stores and nurseries to raid for supplies, and the Jersey dairy farms aren't too far away.

[ohms_law]

Originally Posted by Foeofthelance

and the Jersey dairy farms aren't too far away.

Unless you actually have to walk there...


Seriously though, there's a real reason that Jersey is nicknamed "The Garden State". It's not actually a misnomer.

[2 Inch Jake]

Originally Posted by Foeofthelance

Nah, I'm aware of that. I just happen to live in a major suburban area less than forty minutes outside of New York City. So if there is a major incident, I'm smack dab in the path of a panicking herd of 18,000,000 souls. I figure the amount of collateral damage to infrastructure would make piecing anything back together interesting to say the least.

Hmmm, typical doomsday scenario, say infection based? I'd say maybe 5,000 survivors for the entire area. We could get by on salvage for maybe two or three years, five at the most. By that time, though, we should have a decent grasp on farming again. There's plenty of seed stores and nurseries to raid for supplies, and the Jersey dairy farms aren't too far away.

Ever been to a commerical dairy farm? Disease and starvation would wipe out most of those diary cows in a very short amount of time. By the time the few surviving people got to the dairy farms the dry lots and free stalls would be littered with dead cows and the ones still alive would be sickly on their way to death.

[Foeofthelance]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Unless you actually have to walk there...


Seriously though, there's a real reason that Jersey is nicknamed "The Garden State". It's not actually a misnomer.

Actually, that would be something for me to count on. Southern New York isn't exactly known as a major agricultural center. Presuming a massive breakdown in logistics, having some neighbors who not only have the tools but the knowledge to use them is a good thing. The only question would be what we could use in terms of trade with them. Fuel wouldn't be much of a problem since they would also have the Jersey tank farms and refineries, and there wouldn't be much call for the Wall Streeters... I suppose worse case scenario we all go share-cropper. Better to work for beans than starve.

[Foeofthelance]

Originally Posted by 2 Inch Jake

Ever been to a commerical dairy farm? Disease and starvation would wipe out most of those diary cows in a very short amount of time. By the time the few surviving people got to the dairy farms the dry lots and free stalls would be littered with dead cows and the ones still alive would be sickly on their way to death.

Depends on how fast we could get out there. The good news is that a lot of Jersey farms tend to be free range to a certain extent; they don't lockbar the cattle into stalls and fatten them up the way a beef farm does. Providing the herds were let out before the owners died, I'd say we have about a 35-50% chance of getting enough stock to survive. Actually, my biggest concern would be the bulls. From what I've been told most dairy farms don't keep more than a handful in stock for breeding purposes (you know, since bulls don't produce milk). If we didn't get enough bulls to breed with it wouldn't matter how many cows we rescue; they'd all die off anyway, with no replacements.

For the record, yes, I think about these kinds of things waaaaaay too much. It goes with the writing, I'm afraid. If you ever need to put a character through it, you need to know how'd you react first...

[ohms_law]

Originally Posted by 2 Inch Jake

Ever been to a commerical dairy farm? Disease and starvation would wipe out most of those diary cows in a very short amount of time. By the time the few surviving people got to the dairy farms the dry lots and free stalls would be littered with dead cows and the ones still alive would be sickly on their way to death.

That actually hits at the heart of the problem. People don't really think about it, but we really are completely dependent on fossle fuels. All of those cows are dependent on the support provided by massive amounts of energy.

Originally Posted by Foeofthelance

Actually, that would be something for me to count on. Southern New York isn't exactly known as a major agricultural center. Presuming a massive breakdown in logistics, having some neighbors who not only have the tools but the knowledge to use them is a good thing. The only question would be what we could use in terms of trade with them. Fuel wouldn't be much of a problem since they would also have the Jersey tank farms and refineries, and there wouldn't be much call for the Wall Streeters... I suppose worse case scenario we all go share-cropper. Better to work for beans than starve.

I doubt that there would be much fuel around for long. Shit'll burn, literally. There are a lot of safety mechanisms in those plants, but they definitely rely on human monitoring...

[Foeofthelance]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

I doubt that there would be much fuel around for long. Shit'll burn, literally. There are a lot of safety mechanisms in those plants, but they definitely rely on human monitoring...

Again, depends on who dies and when. Assuming some survivors of a plague, there's a chance that at least someone knows how to run them, or at least keep them from imploding. Hell, that might actually be what we trade; knowledge for food, until we can get everything work at sustainable levels. Not modern ones, but sustainable.

Hmmm, if you want a good example of what I'm talking about try and find a copy of Last Centurion by John Ringo. It's more than a little one sided politically, but if you stomach the constant Hillary-bashing he has some interesting ideas on how a plague would hit the country.

[ohms_law]

Yea, true. We're certainly not defining the situation very well...

[Foeofthelance]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Yea, true. We're certainly not defining the situation very well...

Well, I've been assuming plague, since its more survivable than, say, global nuclear holocaust. In that case a place like New Jersey has a better shot than a state like New York. Easier for a plague to find a vector in a more densely populated region, even assuming an airborne pathogen. So those hypothetical dairy farmers are the most likely to survive, assuming they keep their heads down. The refinery guys not so much, considering their job. My friends and I in the city and suburbs? Well, 'lest ya have a good immune system, start digging your own grave now, because there won't be anyone left to do it for you.

[deidre79]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

So, we shouldn't do anything that is inherently dangerous?

...Do you drive? At all?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Remember back a year or two ago when we were being told that offshore oil drilling was perfectly safe, environmentally sound, and all that? Remember when Sarah Palin was exhorting her rabid crowds with chants of "DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!"?

Now we have a grim reminder of what can happen. A drilling rig off the Gulf Coast near New Orleans sank caught fire and sank into the Gulf, spewing untold amounts of crude oil into the water. Eleven people are missing and likely dead. Nice work.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36683314...s-environment/

I tried to tell everyone that President Obama advocating to grant the conservative/Republicans wish to drill off shore was a stroke of genius. Sure isn't blocking it is he? No. Instead even though the oil companies and their cheerleaders swear up and down they can drill safely and technological advances has made blowouts like we've got right now a thing of the past.

Now, let's see how those mostly Republican eastern seaboard states like the idea of drilling off their shores. It will be so refreshing to see them back peddling and saying Drill Baby Drill someplace else.

Originally Posted by Kimiko

The fact that it's inherently dangerous is exactly the point.

Its a little more than inherently dangerous. What this "blowout" proves is that drilling oil and gas wells is inherently fallible. The reason for that is there are too many variables as far as formations, fractures, pressures, and of course equipment failure and human error. This well is blowing out in the middle of a proven area where they have already drilled thousands of oil and gas wells.

Looks like they should know how to do it safely and environmentally soundly by now doesn't it? And they do. But you just never know what you're going to hit or how everything will work. And that's why they are bullshitting when they say they can drill off shore without causing any damage.

[love_chocolate]

Originally Posted by Foeofthelance

Well, I've been assuming plague, since its more survivable than, say, global nuclear holocaust. In that case a place like New Jersey has a better shot than a state like New York. Easier for a plague to find a vector in a more densely populated region, even assuming an airborne pathogen. So those hypothetical dairy farmers are the most likely to survive, assuming they keep their heads down. The refinery guys not so much, considering their job. My friends and I in the city and suburbs? Well, 'lest ya have a good immune system, start digging your own grave now, because there won't be anyone left to do it for you.

Maybe the guys in the coal mines might survive, wouldn't that be a kick in the ass, that is if the fucking mine doesn't cave in on them!

[Kimiko]

I'm glad your here, Stumbler...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

[deidre79]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I'm glad your here, Stumbler...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

pissed off would not be the term I would use. just the opposite.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by prtndr

How very Luddite of you, Kimi. Any industrial concern has the potential for disaster. An exloding paint factory can do the same amount of damage. Want some serious environmental damage? Look up chemical factory explosions.

Boy for someone who has such an impressive vocabulary you sure use it to say some stupid shit with.

What kind of chemical factory prtndr? A petro-chemical factory per chance where they separate chemicals from oil or bond chemicals with petroleum products? Got a pain factory that going to explode and pump out 300 barrels a day for weeks and months? I doubt it prtndr.

Want some environmental damage well then you got it. And you're right its no big deal on a global basis. But I'm betting if that oil slick washes up on your beach front you'd be screaming like my hysterical old grandma about it.

And incidentally this one is just getting started. Unless it bridges off down hole this one is going to blow for a long time because they lost their rig and about the only way they can kill it now is to start over, drill another well bore to a safe depth, and then try to directional drill into the well bore that's blowing out and pump on it that way. It could take months. And could also be two fires for the price of one if they aren't way more careful than they were this time.

Originally Posted by Lookn4awillin1

Natural Seepage Inputs More Oil Into the Marine Environment than Spills
The biggest pollution risk involved in offshore drilling is in transporting the oil
back to shore -- by pipeline, barge or tanker. In 2002, the National Research Council
(NRC) of the National Academy of Sciences completed its third examination of
petroleum inputs into marine waters worldwide. The report found that marine
transportation was responsible for one-third of worldwide petroleum spillage, about eight
times the amount caused by drilling platforms and pipelines; however, only 3 per cent of
inputs in North American waters are due to marine transportation.16
Total petroleum input estimates decreased from 43 million barrels per year in
1975 to 9 million barrels per year by 2002. According to the 2002 report, worldwide
offshore oil and gas development is responsible for only 4 percent of the petroleum in the
world’s marine environment. The report goes on to say that natural seepage is the largest
single source of petroleum in the worldwide marine environment, contributing more than
4 million barrels per year. In North America, natural seepage is the largest input,
contributing 63 percent of total inputs to the marine environment. Municipal and
industrial waste is responsible for 12 percent of worldwide petroleum inputs and 22
percent of petroleum inputs in North American marine waters.

16

U.S. Department of the Interior, Minerals Management Services, OCS Oil Spill Facts,

September 2002

Yes, yes, you're so brilliant Lookn. But let me ask you one question. Is this natural seepage? Or is an uncontrolled blowout from pressurized formations?

By the way. Where did it say this natural seepage occurred? On the sea floor or the surface? There's kind of a world of difference there you know.

Originally Posted by Lookn4awillin1

Offshore Oil Drilling Truths vs. Myths
Another myth, according to Tyler, is that oil companies currently have 68
million acres of leased public lands that contain large amounts of economically
recoverable oil, which could generate 4.8 million barrels a day, so opening up
more land is not necessary. He refutes this, saying, “The estimates on the amount
of oil available in the 68 million acres assume that the unused area can produce
the same amount as those acres being used. However, much of the land leased to
oil companies has already been explored and determined not to carry enough
recoverable oil to justify drilling.”
Tyler also advocates drilling for unconventional sources, such as tar sands
or shale oil. He says that the idea that the United States only has a small
percentage of the world’s oil supplies does not hold up to scrutiny. In oil shale
alone, he says, “the U.S. has approximately 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil,
over three times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. In the past oil shale was
considered too costly to extract, but according to Tyler, “If the cost of a barrel of
oil was as high as $90, current technology would make oil shale competitive in
the market.”
The potential economic benefits of offshore drilling are significant. If the
Energy Information Administration’s estimate of 16 billion barrels of projected
16
total recoverable oil off of the east and west coasts of Florida is correct, Floridians
stand to generate billions of dollars in revenue from drilling. Tyler estimates
somewhere between a low of $35 billion and a high of $147 billion.
17

Let me put this in oilfield terminology. Your Tyler buddy is a lying motherfucker. The oil and gas companies bid on these leases. Some they never plan to drill and others they are planning to drill an entire mountain range if the BLM and Forest Service will let them get away with it.

The major oil and gas producers already have their drilling and production plans laid out by the decades, and there is a lack of pipeline and refinery capacity to help keep supplies low and demand high.

The main reason these huge tracks of land are leased is for future speculation, locking up acreage to keep their competitors from competing with them, and the all time favorite oilfield game; "Let's shuffle paper for millions, on leases we hold."

Here's the truth about your offshore drilling. One, if they started drilling tomorrow it would be eight years before they could have significant production. Significant in making a profit. Completely insignificant in terms of energy independence or lower prices. If we magically could produce all the oil offshore including the east coast, west coast, and Arctic National Wildlife Refuge at our current rates of consumption it would last us 3 years.

Its so stupid to even be talking about oil at this point. Oil's not dead but its dying fast and nothing but converting to other sources of fuel is going to solve that problem.

And that's one of the things that makes President Obama one of the smartest presidents in our history.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I'm glad your here, Stumbler...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

Good. I knew I could count on you while I was gone.

Great thread baby.

Drill Baby Drill. Or was that Burn Baby Burn. Sometimes I get my political cliches confused.

[Kimiko]

How ironic that this would occur on Earth Day...especially given the fact that the oil spill that occurred in the Santa Barbara Channel gave birth to the original Earth Day forty years ago, and arguably to the environmental movement itself.

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php/lat...-of-earth-day-

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I'm glad your here, Stumbler...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

Shall we just fuck in front of them and scare the children?

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Shall we just fuck in front of them and scare the children?

Funny you should say that...they're running in and out of here every three seconds or so.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

How ironic that this would occur on Earth Day...especially given the fact that the oil spill that occurred in the Santa Barbara Channel gave birth to the original Earth Day forty years ago, and arguably to the environmental movement itself.

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php/lat...-of-earth-day-

WOW! Ok now that is something. I remember the spill quite well but never made the connection between when this one blew out. You know I can't help but think that kind of irony is easily understood and long remembered by the public.

And from my perspective one reason I was not overly concerned about actually opening up more off shore drilling was because I knew they were long over due for a major fuckup and it would prove once again the oil, companies, the technology, the equipment, the humans and mother nature (don't ever forget her) can not be trusted and so you have to figure the worst case scenario and weigh the risks before drilling. I think this one will make a lot of those advocates for drilling off shore think again.

[Rockprincess]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I'm glad your here, Stumbler...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

Not me, I couldn't get mad at you...

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Funny you should say that...they're running in and out of here every three seconds or so.

I think we could probably scare them off.

[ohms_law]

Free Cracker Jack prize to the first person who posts the name of the President who started the Environmental Protection Agency.

Who can name the President who protected the most land, by making it all National Parkland?

ps.: You two are more likely to get this perv's absolute attention then scaring me away...
There's a little black spot on the Sun today

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Free Cracker Jack prize to the first person who posts the name of the President who started the Environmental Protection Agency.

Who can name the President who protected the most land, by making it all National Parkland?

ps.: You two are more likely to get this perv's absolute attention then scaring me away...
There's a little black spot on the Sun today

Richard Nixon.

But that was only after rivers in the US started catching fire and little things like Love Canal

Sorry I missed the question referring to Teddy Roosevelt.

Testing the edit limits here.

Who gives a shit about your attention?

[ohms_law]

Maybe not you, but I thought the point was to scare myself and others away? Gotta know your audience, dude.

The only reason I mentioned those things was because it just shows how pliable views on these things are. People get caught up in their identities, and the hear and now. History really does teach some important lessons, we simply need to be open minded enough to accept those lessons.

Obama reminds me quite a bit of Nixon actually (minus the paranoid schizophrenia... hopefully). They share quite a few political views, despite a couple of obvious differences.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Maybe not you, but I thought the point was to scare myself and others away? Gotta know your audience, dude.

The only reason I mentioned those things was because it just shows how pliable views on these things are. People get caught up in their identities, and the hear and now. History really does teach some important lessons, we simply need to be open minded enough to accept those lessons.

Obama reminds me quite a bit of Nixon actually (minus the paranoid schizophrenia... hopefully). They share quite a few political views, despite a couple of obvious differences.

Don't give me you psycho mumbo jumbo were the answers right or not?

'Cause I'm all about getting right down to the pliable views and people getting caught up in conservative/Republican irrational, illogical, false and often impossible arguments.

That's the reason I'm bringing this up.

PS Richard Nixon was the political equivalent of a used car salesman.

[ohms_law]

Of course they were right! You mean, you really weren't sure? Those things are easy enough to look up, you know.

[Pussy Patrol]

Originally Posted by stumbler

PS Richard Nixon was the political equivalent of a used car salesman.

Says who?

Please state your evidence to support this claim.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Of course they were right! You mean, you really weren't sure? Those things are easy enough to look up, you know.

I didn't look them up. I accepted your challenge and answered your questions to establish that I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Let's see if you do.

Do you believe off shore drilling operations can be conducted without major environmental damage?

How much oil is "projected" to be available on our east coast, west coast and coast of Alaska?

How long would it take to bring it into production?

How long would it take to convert to biofuels?

Is it worth the potential environmental Damage? In other words will drilling offshore have any impact what so ever on the price of oil or our dependence on foreign oil?

[ohms_law]

Sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to answer those questions. I know that you want to tell us all the answers yourself though, so.. here's the mike. Have fun!

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Pussy Patrol

Says who?

Please state your evidence to support this claim.

How old are you, kid? Old enough to be here?

Where would like to start. Disastrous economic policies that blew up in his face? How about not the war in Vietnam but the illegal war in Cambodia and Laos as well as the bombing of North Vietnam. All of which was technically illegal and supposed to be secret.

How about Watergate? Ever heard of that? Did you know it also included plots to kill American journalists on the Enemy List including three choices given by G Gordon Liddy to President Nixon to kill Jack Anderson.

How about Al Hague calling Henry Kissinger in the middle of the night to tell him they had a potential national emergency because the President of the United States of American was drunk and babbling to the portraits of past presidents hanging in the halls of the White House.

How about hours of secret tapes made of discussions in the White House? Better yet how about an 18 minute gap in those tapes? How about; 'I'm not a crook."

And the fact that we know all that about President Nixon is proof that when it came to politics he was just as honest and every bit as effective as a used car salesman.

One of the cliches of the time was; my god if they tried all this and got caught at it imagine what they could have done if they weren't a bunch of bumbling used car salesmen.,

[slavehack]

I though this thread was about the porno.

MY BAD.

I am well informed of the facts from both sides on this issue, however :P

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Sorry, I'm too much of an idiot to answer those questions. I know that you want to tell us all the answers yourself though, so.. here's the mike. Have fun!

No, see this is pretty much a standard routine. People come on all the time spouting a bunch of brainwashed right wing conservative/republican propaganda and think they know things.

Its good to admit you don't. Remember that the next time you think you do.

[ohms_law]

I keep trying to explain to you guys that I've seen all of this shit before, and I know people who are much better at these discussions then y'all. That was just lame, dude. I'm disappointed (although, hardly surprised). Keep working at it though, you'll get better with practice (and eventually maybe I'll quit laying the fat pitches down the pipe to ya...).

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

I keep trying to explain to you guys that I've seen all of this shit before, and I know people who are much better at these discussions then y'all. That was just lame, dude. I'm disappointed (although, hardly surprised). Keep working at it though, you'll get better with practice (and eventually maybe I'll quit laying the fat pitches down the pipe to ya...).

Naw I'm calling a bullshit right now Ohms old buddy. If you've got something to say then say it. Don't show up spouting a bunch of painfully redundant brainwashed bullshit and then try to tell us you know people so much smarter than us you won't even discuss it with us.

Fuck what your friends know. What do you know? And if you don't know then why are you talking?

[ohms_law]

I didn't say smarter, I said better. There's a difference.
but, meh...

[Pussy Patrol]

Originally Posted by stumbler

How old are you, kid? 48

Old enough to be here?

Where would like to start. Disastrous economic policies that blew up in his face? How about not the war in Vietnam but the illegal war in Cambodia and Laos as well as the bombing of North Vietnam. All of which was technically illegal and supposed to be secret.

How about Watergate? Ever heard of that? Did you know it also included plots to kill American journalists on the Enemy List including three choices given by G Gordon Liddy to President Nixon to kill Jack Anderson.

How about Al Hague calling Henry Kissinger in the middle of the night to tell him they had a potential national emergency because the President of the United States of American was drunk and babbling to the portraits of past presidents hanging in the halls of the White House.

How about hours of secret tapes made of discussions in the White House? Better yet how about an 18 minute gap in those tapes? How about; 'I'm not a crook."

And the fact that we know all that about President Nixon is proof that when it came to politics he was just as honest and every bit as effective as a used car salesman.

One of the cliches of the time was; my god if they tried all this and got caught at it imagine what they could have done if they weren't a bunch of bumbling used car salesmen.,

So you think anything has changed?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Pussy Patrol

So you think anything has changed?

You God Damned right I do. Nixon was a bumbling used car salesman but no where near the destructive mouth piece and traitor Ronald Reagan was. Sure, sure, we used to the conservative/Republicans getting into power and ripping us off whether its in wars or the stock markets, or Savings and loans and what ever. But you know what? We always had our jobs to pay for the lie that conservatism is as it is preached and practiced in this nation but when Regan got done we didn't even have our fucking jobs anymore and we Reagan and the Boys turned us into a nation of fucking paper pushers and burger flippers.

But nothing, and I mean literally nothing, has brought the United States of American down further and turned us into a fascist police state and a prison nation than eight years of George W Bush who racked up $6 Trillion fucking dollars in national debt and sold our economic asses to the Chinese so they can wipe us out without firing a shot.

So now lets see you do one of two things or both.

Prove what I just said is false and/or inaccurate.

Show me where liberal/Democratic administrations have fucked anything as bad as what I've just pointed out to you.

[Pussy Patrol]

I'm not here to debate politics.I wanted to know your opinion.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Pussy Patrol

I'm not here to debate politics.I wanted to know your opinion.

Yes quite a bit has changed both short and long term.

One we got a soft landing and there would be much more howling and suffering right now if President Obama's stimulus package had not got passed because lets face it the millionaire stock brokers, bankers, hedge fund operators had already been bailed out to the tune of $4 Trillion dollars.

On the international front the "war on terror' has been completely redefined as has been the world opinion of the US and the US is actually resuming its position as a world leader instead of bully and exploiter.

Next, one of the most important things and ironically enough not even a single republican could deny it was not mathematically necessary, our health care system has been reformed for the first time in 100 years.

Finally most everything President Obama and the Democrats have done have benefited me. Everything from cutting my taxes, to helping me with my unemployment, to helping subsidize my COBRA have been a life saver to me. And you know what? If nothing else and all politicians lie cheat and steal. At least this time I damned glad I've got politicians that are at least lying, cheating and stealing in my favor.

PS If you're not here to discuss politics what are you doing here in the first place? Big forum man. Something for everyone you know.

[richief]

Another tradegy. I can still remember Piper Alpha going bang.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/w...00/3036510.stm

[tenguy]

The worst industrial accident in the US occurred onshore, it centered on a boat load of fertilizer bound for a war-torn Europe in 1947. It apparently involved a careless smoker, nearly 600 people died as a result and Texas City was never again the same.

And then there was Bhopal, India, estimate of from 2,500 to 16,000 were dead from a leak at a pesticide factory. The factory was located in a region of the world where disease from pestilence was the leading cause of death.

We are the leading consumer of petroleum products, a great percentage consumed to preserve our creature comforts. The reason we need the increased oil supplies is to reduce our dependency on foreign sources. The reason we haven't cut our demand for oil is our selfish attitude about using it.

Yet, some people in here see fit to look at this current tragic accident as some sort of work of evil. It is our own personal indifference that is the cause.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

...I seem to have pissed everyone else off.

I hardly think that you are capable off pissing me off, I can predict what you liberals are going to do before you even do it..........

[ThornyRose]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Remember back a year or two ago when we were being told that offshore oil drilling was perfectly safe, environmentally sound, and all that? Remember when Sarah Palin was exhorting her rabid crowds with chants of "DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!"?

Now we have a grim reminder of what can happen. A drilling rig off the Gulf Coast near New Orleans sank caught fire and sank into the Gulf, spewing untold amounts of crude oil into the water. Eleven people are missing and likely dead. Nice work.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36683314...s-environment/

These kind of things are real sad. But in my writing about crude oil, and now natural gas, it seems that after a period of time, the workers get careless. The recovery of Natural Gas in the Shale of the Application Basin. and the coal mine desasters in that part of the Methane belt sort of gives me the feeling the two industries are not communicating

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Remember back a year or two ago when we were being told that offshore oil drilling was perfectly safe, environmentally sound, and all that? Remember when Sarah Palin was exhorting her rabid crowds with chants of "DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!"?

Now we have a grim reminder of what can happen. A drilling rig off the Gulf Coast near New Orleans sank caught fire and sank into the Gulf, spewing untold amounts of crude oil into the water. Eleven people are missing and likely dead. Nice work.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36683314...s-environment/

Actually I think that it is rather sad that an accident like this needs to be portrayed as you are trying to do, it's a tragic accident and may or may not of been preventable, and here you are capitalizing on it for the environmentalists. That's the way you liberals work.


11 people missing and proposed to be dead, I feel for their families, the workers were just trying to provide a good living for their families and a goods and service for the nation.

Industrial accidents happen.

[prtndr]

As an aside, it was announced this morning that the rig has sunk due to the damage from the fire. Remember that the next time one of the 9/11 "truthers" tells you that fire can't damage structural steel.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by prtndr

As an aside, it was announced this morning that the rig has sunk due to the damage from the fire. Remember that the next time one of the 9/11 "truthers" tells you that fire can't damage structural steel.

You do realize, don't you, that this was a floating platform?

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

Actually I think that it is rather sad that an accident like this needs to be portrayed as you are trying to do, it's a tragic accident and may or may not of been preventable, and here you are capitalizing on it for the environmentalists. That's the way you liberals work.


11 people missing and proposed to be dead, I feel for their families, the workers were just trying to provide a good living for their families and a goods and service for the nation.

Industrial accidents happen.

I think it's rather said that you conservatives can chalk up a tragedy like this as somewhere between business as usual and "shit happens".

[love_chocolate]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I think it's rather said that you conservatives can chalk up a tragedy like this as somewhere between business as usual and "shit happens".

But that is exactly what it is, money makes the world go round!

[love_chocolate]

Originally Posted by love_chocolate

But that is exactly what it is, money makes the world go round!

No matter what party they are from, like most people drop some bread in front of them, and get out of the way!