The Library - A place for conversation

[ejls]

Recently, so many threads have been derailed by our angst, rants, and overall complaints. I am establishing this thread in hopes that anyone will feel free to come here and discuss whatever they wish, leaving threads like Recommended Writers and Story Reviews to their original goals. If you want to discuss your all-time favorite book, do it here. If you want to talk about your current work, go right ahead. If you would like to announce the validation of a new submission, post the link here so that we can readily find it, before it's been buried. This is for you - to talk about whatever you wish. My wish is that everyone will feel free to come to the Library.

[ejls]

I am probably alone in this, but the hardest thing for me to write are the sex scenes. I know that most think I have too much story and not enough sex, but honestly they are so difficult for me. I'm so afraid they will all sound the same, that I will repeat the same descriptions and acts in each story. Maybe this comes from growing up in an era where you did not talk about sex with your mother, or even with close girl friends. It was all whispered. Maybe it's because I married my high school sweetheart, without having been with another. I don't know. I do know I'm trying and hope that I succeed. No, my stories are not going to be like everyone elses, but isn't that what makes this place great?

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

No Ejls your not alone I dread writing sex scenes, because I know I have a particular way that I write them. Its not so much that it was taboo it was more that well there are only so many ways you can describe it, you can freshen it up differant ways but still it can be pretty fucking tedious.

[Wimmers]

Shush

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Wimmers

Shush

The nice thing about this library is that I envision it in a home. You know the kind - panelled walls, books on every shelf, comfortable chairs and sofas, maybe a bar in the corner. Come in and stay a while.

[ssalo]

ejls-

I think this is a good idea. Thank you.

ssalo

[donb9033]

I enjoyed the visit and, in the words of whatshisname "I'll be back".

You always come up with a wonderful idea.

[donb9033]

I'm back. And I didn't even raise taxes.

Ellen, this is a very comfortable place you have designed for us and I want to thank you. I hope your cold is doing better.

I am still insisting that I will write no more stories, but I am trying to get myself out of the doldrums and get back to actively supporting this site. That also means encouraging all of our authors, good, bad, or indifferent.

Speaking of encouragement, JackassTales seems like he needs some encouragement to finish his latest story. I tried by promising to paint a picture (written) of a 21 year old bent over his knee for a spanking, but I don't know if that will do it. Any suggestions?

I have very high hopes for this thread. Thank you.

[Mark Twayn]

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

No Ejls your not alone I dread writing sex scenes, because I know I have a particular way that I write them. Its not so much that it was taboo it was more that well there are only so many ways you can describe it, you can freshen it up differant ways but still it can be pretty fucking tedious.

You nailed it CJ, there are only so many different ways to describe it physically and writing pretty much the same thing can get boring and I suppose reading the same thing can get boring too. I guess that's one of the reasons why so many writers rely on incest and underage to add some zest.

These days I try to concentrate more on the build-up or seduction and what's going on in the couple's minds. After all they say the brain is the biggest sex organ after skin.

And surfers who come here to read rather than go to the videos are looking for sex stimulation through their imaginations.

A great idea to have a thread like this Wammy ejls. I hope it works keeping other threads clean and that it doesn't become a repository for mindless rubbish.

[cassandra789]

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

No Ejls your not alone I dread writing sex scenes, because I know I have a particular way that I write them. Its not so much that it was taboo it was more that well there are only so many ways you can describe it, you can freshen it up differant ways but still it can be pretty fucking tedious.

well jag, after getting hooked on urs i can say uve done well. now go write part 15 of the plane crash so i can get off to it like i have for the others!!

[donb9033]

Originally Posted by Mark Twayn

You nailed it CJ, there are only so many different ways to describe it physically and writing pretty much the same thing can get boring and I suppose reading the same thing can get boring too.

This from the undisputed master of the incredibly beautiful and inspiring sex scenes! Of course, referring to them as only 'sex' is belittling.

I, on the other hand, can barely remember what it was like, so have to gloss over those scenes.

[ejls]

I just spent the afternoon and evening finishing my new story, including two sex scenes. God I hate those. I'll let you know when I'm ready to submit.

And to all - this is a place where you can say whatever you want, talk about whatever you want, or simply sit back and read.

Now, what can we do to inspire Jack? I think I'm too old to inspire anyone.

[donb9033]

Originally Posted by ejls

Now, what can we do to inspire Jack? I think I'm too old to inspire anyone.

In the immortal words of that famous bard, donb9033, 'horse puckey' dear lady. You are an inspiration to us all.

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by ejls

I am probably alone in this, but the hardest thing for me to write are the sex scenes.

You are SOOOOOO not alone in this. I also find it difficult to write sex scenes, for 3 reasons:

1. Having grown up in a very staunch religious household and still retaining a lot of the puritan-style beliefs of my church, I used to have a real mental block with sex scenes. Although the morality of it doesn't bother me any more, I still retain a bit of the block because I've spent too long convincing myself that they're difficult to write.

2. They're great in fantasy but tend to be the same sequence of steps repeated with minimal variation when I'm trying to write them.

3. Until the past few years, I wrote in a very different genre. Creativity and originality are always foremost on my mind when I write, so anything that limits such creativity, such as #2 above, tends to compound itself in my mind.

In short, I find myself uninspired when trying to write sex scenes.

If there's anyone who can write a sex scene and make it feel alive and vibrant, however, it's DeGuru. After reading Morning Workouts and Romance in the Forest (both of which aren't really stories so much as individual scenes), I was tempted to hire him to write my sex scenes for me. Not really, but I joked around about it in PM's with him.

By the way, here are links to those stories:

Morning Workouts
Romance In the Forest!

Originally Posted by Mark Twayn

These days I try to concentrate more on the build-up or seduction and what's going on in the couple's minds. After all they say the brain is the biggest sex organ after skin.

That's like me. The best part of a sex story to me is the foreplay. By that, I don't necessarily mean in the bedroom, but all of the stuff that goes on leading up to the event. The flirting, teasing, "will they or won't they" scenes, especially if they push the boundaries. Nudity, ambiguous touching, etc. That's far more interesting than the consummation of the relationship.

Originally Posted by Mark Twayn

You nailed it CJ, there are only so many different ways to describe it physically and writing pretty much the same thing can get boring and I suppose reading the same thing can get boring too. I guess that's one of the reasons why so many writers rely on incest and underage to add some zest.

Incest is one of my favorites exactly for the reason described above. Family members can be intimate with each other in ambiguous ways that can have a hint of the sexual without being overtly sexual. A girl sleeping in her brother's bed. A girl sitting on her daddy's lap. Brothers and sisters wrestling. A good-night kiss on the lips. These are all perfectly acceptable inside the family relationships but downright sexy when that relationship is removed.

I'm actually working on a story that takes this as a primary theme and explores it in detail in an artistic setting. It will probably be a while before it's finished, but I promise those of you who have read Allison and the Primdales a pleasant surprise.

[donb9033]

Originally Posted by Daddycums

That's like me. The best part of a sex story to me is the foreplay. By that, I don't necessarily mean in the bedroom, but all of the stuff that goes on leading up to the event. The flirting, teasing, "will they or won't they" scenes, especially if they push the boundaries. Nudity, ambiguous touching, etc. That's far more interesting than the consummation of the relationship.

Like the first 60 chapters of Allison and the Primdales. I honestly believe that it is 'cruel and inhumane punishment' to make me wait so long to see if Jeff and Brit are actually going to do 'it'.

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

I wanted you all to know that I found some stories I wrote a long long time ago... I'm SO happy three or four computers later I turn up old hard copies!!!!

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Mark Twayn
These days I try to concentrate more on the build-up or seduction and what's going on in the couple's minds. After all they say the brain is the biggest sex organ after skin.

Originally Posted by Daddycums

That's like me. The best part of a sex story to me is the foreplay. By that, I don't necessarily mean in the bedroom, but all of the stuff that goes on leading up to the event. The flirting, teasing, "will they or won't they" scenes, especially if they push the boundaries. Nudity, ambiguous touching, etc. That's far more interesting than the consummation of the relationship.

I agree with both of you. I wish I could write like MT and discuss the actual thoughts of the couple. I think I use my whole story as the seduction. Hopefully, through the actions of the couple, you will want to read the sex scenes.

Lately, I've spent some time removing the scenes from a couple of stories, and glossing over the acts - making them very PG rated and sharing them with friends. They seem to like the mainstream versions.

[dominatemeplease]

Originally Posted by ejls

I just spent the afternoon and evening finishing my new story, including two sex scenes. God I hate those. I'll let you know when I'm ready to submit.

And to all - this is a place where you can say whatever you want, talk about whatever you want, or simply sit back and read.

Now, what can we do to inspire Jack? I think I'm too old to inspire anyone.

Ejls...you are wrong on so many levels. One you're sex scenes are incredibly beautiful because the reader is able to experience the feelings that brought them to that place. And two, your words of encouragement, your wit, and even those few bouts of near-temper I've seen (and enjoyed) have inspired several people, including me, to take up the pen (or the Word 2007).

And thank you again, for yet another brilliant idea.

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by donb9033

Like the first 60 chapters of Allison and the Primdales. I honestly believe that it is 'cruel and inhumane punishment' to make me wait so long to see if Jeff and Brit are actually going to do 'it'.

Muahahahahahahahaha! I know. I'm evil. But the ride along the way is so fun, wouldn't you say?

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

I wanted you all to know that I found some stories I wrote a long long time ago... I'm SO happy three or four computers later I turn up old hard copies!!!!

Any chance of posting them here?

Originally Posted by ejls

Lately, I've spent some time removing the scenes from a couple of stories, and glossing over the acts - making them very PG rated and sharing them with friends. They seem to like the mainstream versions.

I've noticed that about your stories. In several of them, the sex is incidental; you could cut it out entirely without hurting the story.

Do I foresee a new mainstream fiction writer in the future? As long as you still provide us with the "dirty" versions, I'd love to see you get published.

[CallMeRave]

This is a very good idea. I like it being a real place in your head, can we put in a big fireplace so I can read by its light.

You are right about sex, it is basically the same thing over and over I am not sure how many different ways you can write it. Admittedly I have spelling mistakes in different places each time to keep people guessing.

Right something to talk about... does anyone know how the Authors list is worked out on average rating, is it worked out by just adding up the ratings and dividing by the number of stories or do you think it works on the total number of positive and negative votes? Ejls, who is a much better writer than me, is on page four when all her stories are in the 80% range and I am on page 3 when I have stories at 50%. I don’t see how I could have a higher average, so is it broken or what?

I would also like to ask the real authors on here what they feel about changing the name of a series mid way into it. The rise and fall of a boy called Rave is now at part 24, I do intend to keep writing my story but I feel I am at a point in it where it is no longer The rise and fall. Should I change but keep it along the same lines (I was thinking The damnation and salvation of a soul call Rave) or is this bad form? And if I do should I do it as part 25 or go back to part 1? Will this confuse my fans (all 3 of them) and should I not bother?

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Daddycums

I've noticed that about your stories. In several of them, the sex is incidental; you could cut it out entirely without hurting the story.

Do I foresee a new mainstream fiction writer in the future? As long as you still provide us with the "dirty" versions, I'd love to see you get published.

I started a book last year and put it down when I went to Scotland. I haven't returned to it yet. And I have the entire story in my head - it's just a matter of applying the butt glue to my ass and working.

As far as my mainstream versions - I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to have a collection of short story romances, just in case. But I don't think I could ever give up the erotic stories, or this place. This is just too much fun.

Originally Posted by CallMeRave

Right something to talk about... does anyone know how the Authors list is worked out on average rating, is it worked out by just adding up the ratings and dividing by the number of stories or do you think it works on the total number of positive and negative votes?

I would also like to ask the real authors on here what they feel about changing the name of a series mid way into it. The rise and fall of a boy called Rave is now at part 24, I do intend to keep writing my story but I feel I am at a point in it where it is no longer The rise and fall. Should I change but keep it along the same lines (I was thinking The damnation and salvation of a soul call Rave) or is this bad form? And if I do should I do it as part 25 or go back to part 1? Will this confuse my fans (all 3 of them) and should I not bother?

CallMeRave:

The author rating is weighted by story length. I do not know the exact formula, but long stories achieve a higher boost in the score. Several of us who write novel length work (myself included) have remarked on this dynamic in the past. I am listed among the top 11 or 12 writers on Page One, by average score, yet almost no one has bothered to read my work. So, size most definitely matters.

I am a "real writer," yet I do not feel qualified to answer your question with respect to changing story titles. I know exactly how my books will end before I start them, and every scene ultimately serves the ending in some way. I imagine that to writers who just "let it flow," knowing the ending from the very beginning must sound rather tedious. I guess it all comes down to what one is used to.

As to the running conversation about writing sex scenes, I do enjoy writing them. Although I am no judge (I am not a porn writer by vocation), my readers tell me that the sex in my stories is pretty good. My books are very long, yet I try to avoid repetition. I do not think any of the sex scenes in my two books are the same. I vary the locations. I put considerable planning into the situations that bring the characters together. Most importantly, I try to get into the heads of the characters, and write the narrative in their voices. I don't mean letting them narrate in first person (my books are written in past third person omniscient). I mean I modify the sentence structure and lexicon, so that the narrative "sounds like" the characters. A couple of the characters are geniuses, and when they are featured, the narrative is elevated. One chacter is a poet. Her scenes are written in poetical stream-of-consciousness, often with sentences that run for pages on end. Then there are a couple high school aged characters who are just plain ditzy. When those characters are featured, the sentences are short and choppy, with more periods than conjunctions, and, like, you know, lots of, like, vernacular.

In the end, it is true that sex is just sex, "the old in-out in-out," as Anthony Burgess called it in Clockwork Orange. For me, keeping it fresh and alive is the essence of the challenge- and the fun- of writing it. Sheesh. Maybe I should be a porn writer, after all.

A.P.

[donb9033]

Originally Posted by CallMeRave

I would also like to ask the real authors on here what they feel about changing the name of a series mid way into it. The rise and fall of a boy called Rave is now at part 24, I do intend to keep writing my story but I feel I am at a point in it where it is no longer The rise and fall. Should I change but keep it along the same lines (I was thinking The damnation and salvation of a soul call Rave) or is this bad form? And if I do should I do it as part 25 or go back to part 1? Will this confuse my fans (all 3 of them) and should I not bother?

The only occurance of that of which I am aware is 'hot4fam' changed the title of his story when there was a transition (i.e., different location). Worked really well for me, but I haven't checked to see if his ratings/hits dropped or increased. In my humble opinion, if you have something of a transition, you could easily change to another title.

Enjoy the fireplace.

[donb9033]

Originally Posted by ejls

I started a book last year and put it down when I went to Scotland. I haven't returned to it yet. And I have the entire story in my head - it's just a matter of applying the butt glue to my ass and working.

I am in possession of an over-abundance of butt-glue in case you need some. It seems that's about all I do is sit on my butt.

[drewz]

Finally!! A place where we can hang out and be talking about the second best thing we on this forum do.......write about the best thing we do!! (Well, for me it's the best thing I do!! I'm not judging anybody!)

Miss E, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for starting this thread!! And if Don has the glue, I'll lend you the rope to tie your butt down........just a little extra security!! (Heh Heh)

[ejls]

Originally Posted by dominatemeplease

Ejls...you are wrong on so many levels. One you're sex scenes are incredibly beautiful because the reader is able to experience the feelings that brought them to that place. And two, your words of encouragement, your wit, and even those few bouts of near-temper I've seen (and enjoyed) have inspired several people, including me, to take up the pen (or the Word 2007).

And thank you again, for yet another brilliant idea.

You are incredibly kind. I'm so glad that writers like you and JayneyRedd have joined us. We are in need of new blood, new ideas, fresh talent. This will be a great place to let us know when you post your next story.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by drewz

Finally!! A place where we can hang out and be talking about the second best thing we on this forum do.......write about the best thing we do!! (Well, for me it's the best thing I do!! I'm not judging anybody!)

Miss E, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for starting this thread!! And if Don has the glue, I'll lend you the rope to tie your butt down........just a little extra security!! (Heh Heh)

Thanks a lot, friend. I thought you liked me, but not in a BDSM way. LOL

[Mark Twayn]

Originally Posted by ejls

As far as my mainstream versions - I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to have a collection of short story romances, just in case. But I don't think I could ever give up the erotic stories, or this place. This is just too much fun.

Writing mainstream and getting published?

I'm writing a "REAL" book. There's 300 pages written already. I gave them to two people whose opinions I valued, an author and a sub ed on a newspaper. Both agreed that 50 pages were real class, 50 pages might be OK with more work and that the rest was crap.
Only problem was the 50 pages one had as class the other thought was crap and vice versa.
I doubt I'll finish it. If I do there's a less than 10% chance it'll be published and if it's published there's a 99% chance it'll be read by less than 10,000 people.

I wonder why I'm spending so much time on it. There's a better chance of winning the lottery than making it rich as an author, even if it gets finished. On this site there's a 100% guarantee of being published and a chance it might be read by over 250,000 people. And even enjoyed by some of them.

WOW. As ejls says - now THAT IS FUN

[ELaken-Palmer]

If you write for fun, write for fun. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Why else would we do it?

[Eric the Red]

Originally Posted by Mark Twayn

You nailed it CJ, there are only so many different ways to describe it physically and writing pretty much the same thing can get boring and I suppose reading the same thing can get boring too. I guess that's one of the reasons why so many writers rely on incest and underage to add some zest.

OMG! I so do that.
And, although it does add spice, it does not relieve one of the burden of some kind of physical description.
What I do is envision it in my head, and then just describe what I see.
But sometimes it can really hang me up in the middle of writing a story, because if I can't turn my own crank with a sex scene, how could I expect anyone else to find it hot?

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by Eric the Red

OMG! I so do that.
And, although it does add spice, it does not relieve one of the burden of some kind of physical description.
What I do is envision it in my head, and then just describe what I see.
But sometimes it can really hang me up in the middle of writing a story, because if I can't turn my own crank with a sex scene, how could I expect anyone else to find it hot?

One thing I find myself doing too often that I'm trying to break out of is writing sex scenes as if they're in a porn movie. If you read my stories, you'll notice that there's usually a clear delineation between the sex scenes and the non-sex scenes. It's like at a certain point, the music comes up and the characters get it on. Then at the end, the characters lie in bed for a while, then get up and go on with their lives.

One way to spice it up that I have explored just a little is to get out of that rut and blur the distinction between the sex and non-sex parts of the story. Why do the characters have to, at a certain point, decide they're going to have sex and then immediately do it? Why can't the seduction take place over hours or even days? (Or even months, like in Allison and the Primdales)

I find it much more fulfilling when the characters first take their clothes off and spend some time getting used to being naked together, then spend some time getting used to touching each other, then finally consummating their relationship.

Most of the stories I have planned in the near future use this method.

[Empress Lainie]

Don't miss reading the only 3 books that Stieg Larsson will ever write. He died before publication at age 49.

These are HOT books, in a literary sense, the plots and the descriptions etc. I could not put them down.

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO

THE GIRL WHO PLAYED WITH FIRE

THE GIRL WHO KICKED OVER THE HORNET'S NEST

Same girl, same people each book each is a continuation of the previous.
Lisbeth Salander the girl.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Empress Lainie

Don't miss reading the only 3 books that Stieg Larsson will ever write. He died before publication at age 49.

These are HOT books, in a literary sense, the plots and the descriptions etc. I could not put them down.

THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO

THE GIRL WHO PLAYED WITH FIRE

THE GIRL WHO KICKED OVER THE HORNET'S NEST

Same girl, same people each book each is a continuation of the previous.
Lisbeth Salander the girl.

Barnes & Noble advertised these books, it's nice to get a real reccommendation from you Lainie.

[drewz]

Originally Posted by ejls

Thanks a lot, friend. I thought you liked me, but not in a BDSM way. LOL

Sorry, dearest. I wasn't meaning anything in a BDSM sort of way. Unless you want it to be!! (heh heh)

Originally Posted by Daddycums

One way to spice it up that I have explored just a little is to get out of that rut and blur the distinction between the sex and non-sex parts of the story. Why do the characters have to, at a certain point, decide they're going to have sex and then immediately do it? Why can't the seduction take place over hours or even days? (Or even months, like in Allison and the Primdales)

Most of the stories I have planned in the near future use this method.

You have touched on a dynamic that is difficult to achieve.

I try to build the tease into the plot. In Nascent, the main protagonists do not "do it" in the literal sense until somwhere around the six hundredth page (hardcover equivalent). Everything theretofore is a slow tease, but I try to make it very sexual, through situation and dialogue. The main characters also play ordinary games and engage in "ordinary" pursuits, which are conveyed erotically (jogging, swings, Barbies, chess, movie nights). All of the teases serve a dual purpose, by also revealing the characters, and by advancing the underlying plot.

In fact my "fans" (admittedly there are only a handful) corroborate this view. The few people who enjoy my books have related to me that they favor the "full immersion" experience of epic length novels, for the richness of the characters and the plausibility of the plot.

Of course I am not recommending that anyone else try to accomplish so much within a given scene. My books are l--o--n--g. In the short story format, one must advance the action quickly. I think that is why it is harder to make a sex scene sound and feel "fresh" in the short story format. In the long novel format, one has the time and luxury of being able to develeop rich characters and a plot. Short story writers do not have the luxury, and therefore have a more difficult job.

Some of my vignettes are paced quickly. In some instances the characters are less complex, and there is less work for me, as the author, to do. One example would be the vignette called Cazzie and Colleen at Bathtime. That one is pretty cut-and-dried. Two high school aged kids, in the bath, with the water and suds more or less to themselves. Another vignette, which on this forum I have called "Absence makes the heart grow...", is set a bit more in the context of the story, and makes the case that the setting and situation matter. Sex is just sex, ultimately, but the situation in which it occurs can amplify its significance and make it sound fresh.

Anyway, back to my reason for responding. I concur. The non-sex parts are just important as the sex-parts. However, I would add that only in the long novel format does the author have the luxury of being able to build rich characters and situations. In that sense, DC, you and I are spoiled.

AP

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

The one sex scene that really stands out to me was in William Gibson's Neuromancer... It was like you could almost taste it and that was pretty damn good.
As far as pots and storylines that I really like it'll have to be David Webber's Honor Harrington Series though his other series is quite good too, not too much in the way of sex he sort of either implies it or teases, which I think is good and all but GODs I hate his Villians they are so EVIL you want them so badly to die horribly and its painful literally when they dont die soon enough.

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by aesexual pseudonym

You have touched on a dynamic that is difficult to achieve.

I try to build the tease into the plot. In Nascent, the main protagonists do not "do it" in the literal sense until somwhere around the six hundredth page (hardcover equivalent). Everything theretofore is a slow tease, but I try to make it very sexual, through situation and dialogue. The main characters also play ordinary games and engage in "ordinary" pursuits, which are conveyed erotically (jogging, swings, Barbies, chess, movie nights). All of the teases serve a dual purpose, by also revealing the characters, and by advancing the underlying plot.

In fact my "fans" (admittedly there are only a handful) corroborate this view. The few people who enjoy my books have related to me that they favor the "full immersion" experience of epic length novels, for the richness of the characters and the plausibility of the plot.

Of course I am not recommending that anyone else try to accomplish so much within a given scene. My books are l--o--n--g. In the short story format, one must advance the action quickly. I think that is why it is harder to make a sex scene sound and feel "fresh" in the short story format. In the long novel format, one has the time and luxury of being able to develeop rich characters and a plot. Short story writers do not have the luxury, and therefore have a more difficult job.

Some of my vignettes are paced quickly. In some instances the characters are less complex, and there is less work for me, as the author, to do. One example would be the vignette called Cazzie and Colleen at Bathtime. That one is pretty cut-and-dried. Two high school aged kids, in the bath, with the water and suds more or less to themselves. Another vignette, which on this forum I have called "Absence makes the heart grow...", is set a bit more in the context of the story, and makes the case that the setting and situation matter. Sex is just sex, ultimately, but the situation in which it occurs can amplify its significance and make it sound fresh.

Anyway, back to my reason for responding. I concur. The non-sex parts are just important as the sex-parts. However, I would add that only in the long novel format does the author have the luxury of being able to build rich characters and situations. In that sense, DC, you and I are spoiled.

AP

I agree completely. It's much easier in an epic length novel to draw out the seduction and make the actual sex just the end of a series of erotic events, thus keeping it creative and fresh. It worked well in Allison and the Primdales, not so much in some of my shorter stories.

Take one of my latest stories "Love at Second Sight," for instance. There's a little flirting, a little kissing, and then one of the characters suggests they go to the bedroom. It's like at that point I hit a light switch and "turn on" the sex scene. Later I turn it off even more abruptly with a scene change. That's what I'm trying to get away from.

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

When I was first trying to seriously write erotica, My Girlfreind at the time made me read a shitload of Anias Nin, She complained about the same thing. And when I read 101 Nights of Soddom, I found the sex scenes to be tedious at worst, and mostly disturbing at best.

[ejls]

How do you feel about posting a story here with no sex? Are the ratings too important?

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

I've been seriously considering it ... I have one that I really want to write out as soon as I'm done with my monstrosity... I may just do it... I have a good serial with good or at least fair ratings.

Originally Posted by Daddycums

I agree completely. It's much easier in an epic length novel to draw out the seduction and make the actual sex just the end of a series of erotic events, thus keeping it creative and fresh. It worked well in Allison and the Primdales, not so much in some of my shorter stories.

Take one of my latest stories "Love at Second Sight," for instance. There's a little flirting, a little kissing, and then one of the characters suggests they go to the bedroom. It's like at that point I hit a light switch and "turn on" the sex scene. Later I turn it off even more abruptly with a scene change. That's what I'm trying to get away from.

I voted for "Love at Second Sight" in the contest, largely due to my admiration for the beautiful prose. (The sex was yummy, too.) Yet it got my vote by one short-and-curly. I almost did not vote for it, for the very reasons that you have cited. The abrupt scene changes made the flow a bit choppy.

On the other hand, I gave the pacing some latitude, because I know that you are a long-form writer, and I know how difficult the short format can be for novelists. (Note that in the end I chickened out, neglected to compete, and used onset carpal tunnel as a lame excuse!)

I almost voted for another story (which I will not name). It had simply gorgeous lines, and I had to read it two and a half times before deciding in the end that its plot was too crowded with superfluous events that slowed it down and detracted from the flow, rather than moved the story forward. I guess I might be giving the story away. Ahh, well. I am just trying to (constructively) make the point that ultimately every line in fiction matters, and that in short fiction one has less space within which to achieve one's aims. This is true as much for "filth" as for "literature."

A.P.

[Empress Lainie]

I read "From the Heart" by Laura Bush. I am very impressed with that woman.
She and I did many of the same things when we were little and as teens.
Sort of gave me a connection to her. But honestly she accomplished much in the entire world for women during her period as First Lady.

I recommend the book highly. She never mentioned by agreement the battles with G over his drinking, but it is a very interesting picture of life as a first lady.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

I've been seriously considering it ... I have one that I really want to write out as soon as I'm done with my monstrosity... I may just do it... I have a good serial with good or at least fair ratings.

I am assuming you read Danni's Revenge by drewz. It was an outstanding story of revenge, and no sex. I don't mind reading story without the "act".

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by ejls

I am assuming you read Danni's Revenge by drewz. It was an outstanding story of revenge, and no sex. I don't mind reading story without the "act".

It was a good story, Not exactly along those lines though, less emotionally motivated I think.

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by ejls

I am assuming you read Danni's Revenge by drewz. It was an outstanding story of revenge, and no sex. I don't mind reading story without the "act".

I have to admit, I didn't really like that story. It was decently written, but I thought wholly inappropriate for the site. I don't mind a story on a sex stories site missing the "act" as long as it's still erotic. I've read a few like that and enjoyed them.

Danni's Revenge, however, had nothing erotic, and didn't even make up for it with a creative plot or likable characters. In the end, I felt nothing. No pathos, no relief, no pity, no sense of justice, nothing. That was because the story spent no time trying to convince me to care about the characters. Even the protagonist was just a faceless victim whose defining characteristic was the fact that she was willing to commit murder under certain circumstances. Not exactly the most admirable trait.

Sorry, drewz. I just call it like I see it.

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

That last statment you made DC and in reading this thread has given me pause, and brought me to wonder what if we had a set plot line, and characters discriptions all of that were the exercize. Would anyone be interestied in following a plot and seeing how we would each tell the same story?

[donb9033]

Been there, done that and it sucks.

[Nicola Matthews]

Originally Posted by ejls

How do you feel about posting a story here with no sex? Are the ratings too important?

Two of my favorite writers are Anne Rice and Laurell K. Hamilton, but for different reasons. Anne's characters are so well rounded and believable, and I love that she hints at the erotic rather than it actually happening. Remember in the move Interview with the Vampire when Louie (played by Brad Pitt) and Armand (Antonio Banderez) were talking and Armand had Louie by the back of the neck and their lips were like 2 mm apart and the whole time you are thinking to yourself "Kiss him! Kiss him damn it!" because you just know that is about to happen and you are on the edge of the seat but then they don't! That is exactly how Anne Rice writes. Everything erotic is hinted at rather than being expressly written and I just love it! And yet at the same time I feel so unfullfilled at times. It's weird.

On the flipside of that coin is Laurell K. Hamilton's work. There is a ton of action and adventure and enough sex to satisfy just about any taste. And it's not all wine and roses either, some of it is down right vulgar and nasty. But you just love it!

So it makes me wonder if I could walk a line in between these two styles with the latest manuscript I've been working on. I had toyed with the idea since 2007 and began writing on the manuscript in 2008. Unfortunately it's been sitting on the backburner since then, but I had hoped to begin writing on it again this summer. In the beginning I had not planned on having any sex in it at all, but then I decided to go back and add some in. Now I am trying to decide on rather I want to hint at the erotic, get down and dirty with it, or change things up and have both styles in it, depending on what's going on at the time.

As for ratings, they don't mean much to me because I'm not a sought after writer on here. But I would like to see what others can come up with if the sex element was taken out. I think it would really force people as writers to see what they are made of. Writing porn is not like writing erotica. So I for one would definately like to see what some of the writers could come up with if the erotic/sex element was taken out and they were forced to just write a story. I would also like to see that taken one step further and force writers to take a step out of the normal realm of the real world and have them write about something other than real life situations to see just how creative they can get.

[Eric the Red]

Originally Posted by ejls

How do you feel about posting a story here with no sex? Are the ratings too important?

I've written stories with no sex in them, but that's not really what I'm interested in right now, or to put it another way, I don't write porn because I post here, I post here because I write porn.
There are lot's of places to post stories on the Internet, but xnxx lets me post stuff that I would have a hard time getting away with anywhere else, and I love not having to censor myself in the same manner as I would on another site.

As for ratings, well I'd be lying if I said I didn't like having my ego stroked, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure I'd get better ratings if I avoided certain subject matter that provokes a knee-jerk reaction in some people, but that's what I'm interested in writing right now.
I write the stuff I do because, to me, it's interesting to write about.
On this site I've found a lot of people who share that interest, and that's great, but if the audience wasn't there, I'd still be writing it, there'd just be a lot fewer people reading it.

[Daddycums]

Originally Posted by Nicola Matthews

So it makes me wonder if I could walk a line in between these two styles with the latest manuscript I've been working on. I had toyed with the idea since 2007 and began writing on the manuscript in 2008. Unfortunately it's been sitting on the backburner since then, but I had hoped to begin writing on it again this summer. In the beginning I had not planned on having any sex in it at all, but then I decided to go back and add some in. Now I am trying to decide on rather I want to hint at the erotic, get down and dirty with it, or change things up and have both styles in it, depending on what's going on at the time.

My suggestion is to consider your audience. If you're writing for an audience expecting porn, give them at least some sex. Drawing it out with teasing and flirting is fine, in fact I love it when authors do that, but in the end you have to deliver on the promise or you risk alienating your readers. You might be able to pull it off, but then, you might not.

Originally Posted by Nicola Matthews

As for ratings, they don't mean much to me because I'm not a sought after writer on here. But I would like to see what others can come up with if the sex element was taken out. I think it would really force people as writers to see what they are made of. Writing porn is not like writing erotica. So I for one would definately like to see what some of the writers could come up with if the erotic/sex element was taken out and they were forced to just write a story. I would also like to see that taken one step further and force writers to take a step out of the normal realm of the real world and have them write about something other than real life situations to see just how creative they can get.

I probably wouldn't involve myself in anything where the sex was taken out. Not because I don't write non-sexual stories, but because I do. If I'm going to write something non-sexual, I'm going to do it under my own name. And since I don't want anyone to link Daddycums to the real me, it won't show up anywhere near this site.

Likewise, if I want to read something non-sexual, I'm going to go elsewhere.

As far as taking it out of the real world, I have no problem with that. I've written both erotic and non-erotic science fiction and fantasy before, so it wouldn't be a big stretch for me.