Is political reform sweeping through the middle east

[origen01]

That being said, DL, Israel is a little bit of an asshole. They stood idly by while the Phalangists slaughtered Muslims in Lebanon. They did nothing while Hafez al Assad and King Hussein lined thousands against walls to be shot. Not to mention the Israeli state is the product of ethnic cleansing and massacres...

Israel also doesn't make an effort to get along with its Arab neighbors. There is ZERO cooperation among them...

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by origen01

That being said, DL, Israel is a little bit of an asshole. They stood idly by while the Phalangists slaughtered Muslims in Lebanon. They did nothing while Hafez al Assad and King Hussein lined thousands against walls to be shot. Not to mention the Israeli state is the product of ethnic cleansing and massacres...

Israel also doesn't make an effort to get along with its Arab neighbors. There is ZERO cooperation among them...

The Palestinians the Phalangists killed in Lebanon would have loved to kill the Jews. Israel had no obligation and no real option to stop the killings committed by Hafez al Assad and King Hussein. When I was in high school I learned not to be judgmental about the character of the boys who backed me up against bullies.

[origen01]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

The Palestinians the Phalangists killed in Lebanon would have loved to kill the Jews. Israel had no obligation and no real option to stop the killings committed by Hafez al Assad and King Hussein. When I was in high school I learned not to be judgmental about the character of the boys who backed me up against bullies.

Israel had EVERY option to stop the Phlangists in Lebanon. They could have also condemned Jordan and Syria for their repressive massacres... Instead they secretly cheered.

Violence begets violence. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by origen01

Do you think the Russians or Chinese would attack Israel militarily if they attacked Iran? I don't think so. Russia, China, and Iran aren't in a military alliance like NATO...

No I think they would arm Iran and let Iran do it.

But China and Russia will both certainly stop Israel and the US from taking over the middle east and they will surely back their satellites like Iran and Syria just like they are doing now by blocking any UN actions and moving ships into the Persian Gulf as a show of strength.

And don't forget China at least can cripple if not destroy the US without firing a shot by simply selling off an the US Treasurery notes they have which would devalue our dollar to being all but worthless.

[origen01]

Originally Posted by stumbler

And don't forget China at least can cripple if not destroy the US without firing a shot by simply selling off an the US Treasurery notes they have which would devalue our dollar to being all but worthless.

Only to economically cripple their own manufacturing industry? I don't think so. The PRC wouldn't even do that if we sold nuclear missiles to Taiwan.

[stumbler]

OK now I'm getting tired of hearing Assad is on his last legs or his regime is crumbling so I'll believe it when I see it but this is the latest reason for saying it.

US says PM's exit shows Assad rule crumbling

Riad Farid Hijab, Syria's prime minister who defected on Monday, has accused President Bashar al-Assad of carrying out "genocide" against his own people, prompting Washington to say the regime was "crumbling from within".


Patrick Ventrell, the US State Department's acting deputy spokesman, said the defections "indicate that the regime is crumbling and losing its grip on power".

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...425222591.html

[origen01]

Egypt's President Morsi removes Defense Minister Tantawi, chief of staff



Ok. This might be the end of Nasserite Egypt as we know it...

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by origen01

Egypt's President Morsi removes Defense Minister Tantawi, chief of staff



Ok. This might be the end of Nasserite Egypt as we know it...

I saw that a little while ago and wondered about that.

But in the meantime what the hell is going on out on the Sinai Peninsula? There's sure been a lot of action there killing "militants" but who the hell are these militants supposed to be and what are they fighting for?

[origen01]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I saw that a little while ago and wondered about that.

But in the meantime what the hell is going on out on the Sinai Peninsula? There's sure been a lot of action there killing "militants" but who the hell are these militants supposed to be and what are they fighting for?

As a native friend told me, in Egypt, there are a lot of neighborhoods and villages controlled by radical Islamists. They exist mostly in the arid, sparsely populated areas of the country--like the Sinai (however, major cities have neighborhoods controlled by Islamist gangs). Israel has been complaining for years that Egypt is too lenient on an Islamist presence in the Sinai but it's always been kept in check with the understanding that if the Islamists use their position to attack Israel, the Egyptian military would hammer them. The Islamists thought they had a "brother" in the presidency and he would not retaliate. They thought wrong.

[Hunter-Seeker]

Originally Posted by origen01

They did nothing while Hafez al Assad and King Hussein lined thousands against walls to be shot.

Unlike everyone else, who rushed in to help!

Originally Posted by origen01

Instead they secretly cheered.

If they did it secretly, how do you know they cheered?

Originally Posted by origen01

Israel also doesn't make an effort to get along with its Arab neighbors. There is ZERO cooperation among them...

It's the other way around. And I'm pretty sure I heard of cooperation with Egypt.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by origen01

As a native friend told me, in Egypt, there are a lot of neighborhoods and villages controlled by radical Islamists. They exist mostly in the arid, sparsely populated areas of the country--like the Sinai (however, major cities have neighborhoods controlled by Islamist gangs). Israel has been complaining for years that Egypt is too lenient on an Islamist presence in the Sinai but it's always been kept in check with the understanding that if the Islamists use their position to attack Israel, the Egyptian military would hammer them. The Islamists thought they had a "brother" in the presidency and he would not retaliate. They thought wrong.

Thank you and I mean that. You not only provided a perfectly logical explanation I'd have never thought of it matched perfectly with what I've actually seen developing over the past couple months or more.

One of which has been just HOW wrong they were.

[origen01]

Originally Posted by Hunter-Seeker

Unlike everyone else, who rushed in to help!

touché

still, the Israelis could have stopped the Phalangists in Lebanon...

[CS natureboy]

[origen01]

Originally Posted by origen01

Ok. This might be the end of Nasserite Egypt as we know it...

Egypt's Morsi cleans house. But a coup? Hardly

...

But still, no: Morsi has not, in fact, liquidated his toughest opponents, as Michael did in the famous Godfather sequence showing his henchman slaughtering his enemies while he attends his son's baptism and promises to "renounce Satan and all his works." The new heads of Egypt's military branches come from within the system, and the outgoing old guard retains both influence and the great wealth that Egypt's senior officer class has long been rewarded with.
The various articles that write of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood somehow executing a "coup" likewise miss the mark. At the moment, Morsi is the only Egyptian politician with any electoral legitimacy. When SCAF was running the show, the elected parliament was dissolved under a court order. SCAF itself? A group of generals, all of whom owed their position to Mr. Mubarak, who had sought to keep Egypt's civilian politicians under wraps. He has simply exchanged some of the personalities within the bureaucratic and military pyramid.
This is not to say that Morsi and the Brothers aren't seeking to solidify their political position. That's clearly the objective from recent moves and the whole political dance that continues to unfold in Egypt. Marc Lynch turned his keen eye to events in Egypt over the weekend, arguing this is at most a mid-game gambit, not a master stroke.

"My general take is still that the current phase of Egyptian politics is going to be a long, grinding institutional war of position. That kind of politics can be deeply frustrating for an engaged public sphere, since so much of it takes place behind the scenes and in indirect maneuvers rather than in thrilling street protests or the realm of public debate. For example, presumably Morsi and his team have been carefully preparing the ground for this weekend's moves during the weeks where his administration appeared to be passive, floundering, and ineffective. In this arena, Morsi's moves were a bold and unexpected frontal assault on the senior military leadership, but not a decisive one. His appointment of the respected jurist Mahmoud Mekki as Vice President could be seen as another such bold move in institutional combat, by potentially co-opting or intimidating the judiciary. But bold as the moves were, they don't instantly wipe away the real power centers in Egyptian politics. Morsi today is more of a President, but Egypt is a long way from the "Islamic Republic" being bandied about by the Brotherhood's critics"

Long and grinding indeed. Hosni Mubarak was forced from power in February 2011. Today, the country does not have a sitting parliament, a new constitution, or a clear sense of political direction. When will parliamentary elections be held, and who will win? Will Morsi try to use his new powers to ram a new constitution through that will enrage secular forces in society, or try to appoint a more inclusive body to write the new rules of the game? Actions on those matters, hopefully soon, will begin to add some clarity to what has just happened.

[stumbler]

This is one of the most positive signs I've coming out of Egypt since the revolution.

Crowds in Cairo praise Morsi's army overhaul
Thousands gather in Tahrir Square to support move to replace defence minister and army chief by President Mohamed Morsi.

The Egyptian president has ordered the powerful head of the army and defence minister, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, and several senior generals into retirement and canceled constitutional amendments issued by the military restricting presidential powers.


Mohamed Morsi announced through a spokesman on Sunday the dismissal of Tantawi and his appointment as a presidential adviser.


According to state television, Abdul-Fatah al-Sessi would replace Tantawi as defence minister and the general commander of the army.


Morsi also sent into retirement the chief of army staff, General Sami Anan, and appointed him as a presidential adviser.


Lieutenant-General Sidki Sayed Ahmed was named as Anan's replacement.


Morsi further appointed a senior judge, Mahmoud Mekki, as vice-president. All decisions are effective immediately.


Thousands of Egyptians celebrated the announcement on Sunday night in Cairo’s Tahrir Square that played home to the protests that ousted Mubarak.


"The people support the president's decision," the crowd chanted.
Others mocked Tantawi's departure, presented officially as a retirement.


"Marshal, tell the truth, did Morsi fire you?" they said.


Al Jazeera’s Rawya Rageh, reporting from Cairo, said: "The country may be without a constitution, but there are constitutional declarations that specify the job description of the president, and it is perfectly within the realm of his authority to hire and fire senior government officials."


"But I guess the talk about all of this is emanating from the fact that this was such a surprising and bold move," she said.


"Morsi who did not want to defy the military initially, seized on the opportunity of the border attack to end the political career of one of the longest serving military men in the country.


"But whether it was about political score or really an issue of accountability, irrespective of the motives, this indeed was a political earthquake."


"After all, both Tantawi and Anan, the two most powerful members of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), long appeared invincible - both during the period SCAF took control over the country and even after President Morsi’s election in June," she said.


Besides Tantawi and Anan, Morsi also ordered the retirement of the commanders of the navy, air defence and air force.


The latest moves are seen as escalating the power struggle between Morsi, who took office on June 30, and the military.


Morsi's address
In an address to the nation on Sunday evening, Morsi said that his move was not directed at individuals.

"The decisions I took today were not meant ever to target certain persons, nor did I intend to embarrass institutions, nor was my aim to narrow freedoms," he said.


"I did not mean to send a negative message about anyone, but my aim was the benefit of this nation and its people."


Morsi praised the work of the armed forces, saying his decision would free them to focus on their professional tasks.


Tantawi was the head of SCAF, which ruled the country after Hosni Mubarak was toppled as president in February 2011.


He was defence minister for nearly two decades under Mubarak.
Morsi, from the Muslim Brotherhood, and his Islamist allies did not hide their displeasure with the amendments issued by the military in mid-June curtailing the president's role and granting the army massive powers, including legislative control.


Earlier this week, Morsi sacked the head of the intelligence service.
The retired navy commander, Lieutenant-General Mohan Mameesh, was named as chairman of the Suez Canal, the strategic waterway linking the Red Sea and the Mediterranean and a major source of revenues for the country.


Earlier, Al Jazeera's correspondent, Sherine Tadros, reporting from Cairo, said: "There will be a lot of questions asked, especially if Morsi is able to do this.


"In the coming hours, we will find out how this decision came about. All of this has happened very fast, and it was unexpected."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...511142445.html

[stumbler]

Even though Bahrain is somewhat protected from bad press in the US because of all our military and business interests the protests are obviously still going on and getting worse.

Husam Al Hadad Dead: Bahrain Teenager Dies In Clashes With Police

MANAMA, Bahrain -- Late night clashes with riot police in the divided Gulf nation of Bahrain have left a 16-year-old boy dead.


Yousef al-Muhafedha, of the Bahrain Center for Human Rights, said Husam al-Hadad was beaten by security forces late Friday and died from his injuries. The Ministry of Interior confirmed al-Haddad died but only after attacking police with molotov cocktails.


At least 50 people have died since February 2011 on the island nation which is home to the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. The Kingdom's Shiite majority are fighting for greater political rights from the Sunni monarchy.


Opposition forces are likely to rally behind the killing, especially since it comes a day after prominent activist Nabeel Rajab was sentenced to three years in prison for instigating and participating in anti-government rallies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1800851.html

[stumbler]

Things are really heating up in Egypt again as moderates push back against the Islamic constitution written by the Muslim Brotherhood majority in Parliament and supported by President Morsi.

Egypt deploys tanks outside Morsi palace


At least six people have been killed and more than 650 injured in clashes outside the presidential palace in Cairo.

At least five tanks were deployed outside the Egyptian presidential palace in a street where supporters and opponents of President Mohamed Morsi had been clashing into the early hours of the morning, witnesses said.


The state news agency said the military deployment on Thursday around the palace was to "secure" the building. Nine armoured troop carriers were also reported on the street outside the palace.
The violence that had stretched from Wednesday afternoon into the early hours of Thursday had abated by morning, and the streets were calm. The soldiers were members of the Republican Guard, whose duties include protecting the president and his offices.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...141734397.html

[xnxxbob]

The situation in Syria is getting interesting. Assad has loaded bombs with Sarin(WMD'S)............................what will obama do?

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by xnxxbob

The situation in Syria is getting interesting. Assad has loaded bombs with Sarin(WMD'S)............................what will obama do?

Nothing, I hope.