Is political reform sweeping through the middle east

[richief]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Why do the events of this period of time, seem so remarkably like the run up to the Iraq war?

Dictator killing civilians, UN issuing resolutions, Western countries promising to aid the revolutionaries, said dictator become more belligerent, defector issuing statements about said dictators involvement in international terrorism.

Here I thought the progressives were going to handle foreign policy differently, this time.

I wouldn't call our government progressive, more centre right. But yep it does resemble the Iraqi build up, are the CIA involved any where in this?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by richief

I wouldn't call our government progressive, more centre right. But yep it does resemble the Iraqi build up, are the CIA involved any where in this?

No that I'm aware of, did the defector surrender to MI6?

[richief]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603259

The man is a loon, sectionable under the our mental health act, but I fear blood will be let if he can keep control of his mercenaries, fuckers, I really hate mercenaries.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by richief

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603259

The man is a loon, sectionable under the our mental health act, but I fear blood will be let if he can keep control of his mercenaries, fuckers, I really hate mercenaries.

One story I read today mentioned the danger to African foreign workers who are trapped in Libya, can't get out of the country, and are very likely to be mistaken as mercenaries. I would hate to be one of those folks.

I also wonder just what all the US or UN can do? I'm seeing reports of air-strikes so I bet a no-fly zone is going to go up. But its not like we can just invade Libya. That would be as big a mistake as invading Iraq and Afghanistan were.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by richief

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603259

The man is a loon, sectionable under the our mental health act, but I fear blood will be let if he can keep control of his mercenaries, fuckers, I really hate mercenaries.

He probably really believes that bullshit.

Just like Saddam, he was groomed by the West and now bites that hand. Since the 1970's he was a CIA & MI6 favorite, how many Presidents & PM's have their hands in this?

[richief]

Well so far they have frozen all the Gaddafi foreign accounts, and a embargo on weapons trade is now in place, a little late, and economic sanctions are going to start to hit soon.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by richief

Well so far they have frozen all the Gaddafi foreign accounts, and a embargo on weapons trade is now in place, a little late, and economic sanctions are going to start to hit soon.

Ok and now this is a problem that could escalate and drag out the killing. Russia is saying they will not approve a no-fly zone above Libya.

That's a huge stumbling block to something that could all but cripple Gaddafi and really cut down on the killing, and be relatively easy to do. NATO or the UN could call for it and the US could and would be happy to enforce it I bet.

But not if the Russians are going to block it. And it also indicates that we may start playing international politics while people are dying.

Here's the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/...ibya_diplomacy

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

And it also indicates that we may start playing international politics while people are dying.

It was the lack of that which earned your disdain for Bush.

[Ed Itor]

I just like that we are sending a frigate + helicopter + 240 troops to help Canucks still stuck there BUT it will take the ship a week to get there.

Oops some one must have noticed in PMO & now state it is for humanitarian reasons & to ensure any embargo's.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Ed Itor

I just like that we are sending a frigate + helicopter + 240 troops to help Canucks still stuck there BUT it will take the ship a week to get there.

Oops some one must have noticed in PMO & now state it is for humanitarian reasons & to ensure any embargo's.

Try this one.

Petroleum and Empire in North Africa. NATO Invasion of Libya Underway
Muamar Gaddafi Accused of Genocide

Pentagon Invasion Already Underway

The US will use any propaganda necessary to whip up American fervor over Gaddafi and justify Pentagon or MI6 or NATO operations. US and British warships sit off the coast of Libya -- and they don't sit there idly. The imposition of a 'no-fly' zone means that US/NATO planes can do as they like, with the understanding that what we are really talking about are possible bombing and fighter sorties against Libya.

US troops have already moved ashore in Libya, joining the 'opposition ' and 'rebel' forces in 'rebel' controlled territories. The US, France and Britain have already set up Bases in Libya.
The recent report noted that British and US special forces entered Libyan port cities of Benghazi and Toburk on February 23 and 24.

US covert operatives have been on the ground for weeks, in not much longer, whether they have entered by sea (SEALS) or by way of Niger, where the US has openly published information about its covert operations. (See, for example, the travelology reports by former U.S. Special Forces now 'journalist' Robert Kaplan in America's African Rifles a Pentagon massaged and approved propaganda feature in the pro-war Atlantic Monthly). Any opportunity to attack, destabilize, invade will be exploited by the Pentagon.

Of course, as this is written the US media is preparing the ground for the English news consuming masses to see the Pentagon invasion as a "humanitarian" mission in Libya. There is nothing humanitarian about the Pentagon, and there has never been.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23481



And I suspect this is actually what is going to happen next.
Arabs consider a no-fly zone over Libya

CAIRO – Arab foreign ministers on Wednesday condemned Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's bloody crackdown on his own people, and said they would consider imposing a no-fly zone over the country in the turmoil continues.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110302/...ml_arab_summit

Of course the US and NATO can't launch and maintain a no fly zone of an independent Arab nation like Libya.

But you know .............. if the Arabs League imposes a no fly zone and asks for our help I'm sure we would give it to them immediately in quantities of shock and awe.

[stumbler]

I knew this was going to happen and its another really good opportunity to see that Saudi Arabia is not treated like any other nation in the Middle East by the US or the West.

The same rules and standards just don't seem to apply to the Saudis.

Saudi Arabia imposes ban on all protests

All protests and marches are to be banned in Saudi Arabia, the interior ministry has announced on state TV.



Its statement said security forces would use all measures to prevent any attempt to disrupt public order.


The announcement follows a series of protests by the kingdom's Shia minority in the oil-producing eastern province.


Last month, King Abdullah unveiled a series of benefits in an apparent bid to protect the kingdom from the revolts spreading throughout many Arab states.



"Regulations in the kingdom forbid categorically all sorts of demonstrations, marches and sit-ins, as they contradict Islamic Sharia law and the values and traditions of Saudi society," the Saudi interior ministry statement said.


It added that police were "authorised by law to take all measures needed against those who try to break the law".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12656744

[stumbler]

This just sucks in my opinion.

It looks like everyone inside and outside Libya is settling in for a long civil war and this is going to be casting dice for death.

You can bet factions will be competing with each other in a power struggle separate from getting rid of Gaddafi and those with vested interests will be arming those factions. Which means even if they get rid of Gaddafi the fighting and dying is liable to continue.

And who knows how this might turn out. It could easily end up being a lot worse than Gaddafi was.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_831924.html

[stumbler]

Allow me to illustrate and highlight why Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now under fire by Fox News for saying the US mainstream media is losing the information wars to new media outlets like Al Jazeera. Which she said does a much better job of informing its viewers and readers with actual facts than the US media's talking heads with opposing views format.

The statements marked with asterisks are facts that I was unaware of and haven't heard or read anywhere else.

Libya pushes oil to 30-month high
US considers releasing oil from emergency stockpiles as crude prices top $106 on Libyan and Middle Eastern concerns.

The price for US crude oil has risen to a 30-month high amid renewed fears over the conflict in Libya and possible unrest in Saudi Arabia, the world's top exporter and home to most of OPEC's spare capacity.


US crude oil was up $1.79 early on Monday, rising above $106 a barrel and adding to concerns that high energy costs may derail the global economic recovery.


This year's 16 per cent rally in US crude oil has prompted the Obama administration to consider releasing emergency oil stockpiles as policymakers seek ways to contain a negative spillover to the world's biggest economy.


"The concern is that with what we are seeing in Libya, it's purely fear driving the market," said Jonathan Barratt, managing director at Commodity Broking Services in Sydney.


Gaddafi has lost control of most of the country's east, the main oil producing region in the OPEC member nation, to his opponents. Many oil facilities are idle or working at well below capacity.


Libya usually produces 1.6 mn bpd, but output has been slashed by as much as 1 million bpd, according to the IEA.


Supply gap

Saudi Arabia has pledged to fill any supply gap caused by the disruption of exports from Libya.


The kingdom is pumping around 9 mn barrels per day (bpd) and has spare capacity of around 3.5mn bpd, a senior Saudi source told the Reuters news agency last.


But some investors fear unrest elsewhere in the Arab world could also spread inside Saudi Arabian borders. *Saudi Shias last week staged small demonstrations in the Eastern Province,* which holds much of the kingdom's oil wealth, leading clerics to ban protests at the weekend.


*Saudi security forces also detained at least 22 minority Shias who protested last week against discrimination,* activists said on Sunday.
*More than 17,000 people backed a call on Facebook to hold two demonstrations in Saudi Arabia this month, the first one this coming Friday.*


Prices 'may slip back'

But oil prices may slip back to more "realistic" levels around $80 later this year, Barratt said.


"Each time the price moves up a little, people are forced into the market. Once it's feeding itself, it will continue to rise," Barratt said, adding $120 may be the peak without further supply disruptions.


*European equities also dropped on Monday, while high oil prices also threaten Asian economies.*


"At $120 a barrel, we estimate oil prices to shave off 1.5 percentage point from baseline growth" for Asia excluding Japan, Sanjay Mathur and Erik Lueth, RBS economists said.


*South Korea, the world's number five crude oil importer, may lower its three per cent crude oil import tariff to curb inflation*, Yoon Jeung-hyun, country's finance minister said on Monday.


"(Regarding oil prices) we are thinking of a scenario of lowering import tariffs first, if necessary, although we will wait and see more," Yoon told parliament.


*In Spain, fears of a shortage in the oil supply has caused the government to lower the speed limit on highways from 120 km/h to 110 km/h.*


Emergency reserves

William Daley, White House chief of staff, said on Sunday that the US was considering tapping into the country's strategic petroleum reserve (SPR) as a way to lower prices, adding that "a bunch of factors have to be looked at", not just prices.


*One of those factors is coordinating with the other 27 member countries of the International Energy Agency (IEA),* which hold emergency stockpiles equivalent to at least 90 days of net oil imports, counting both government and industry stocks.


As the world's biggest oil consumer, the United States holds the largest emergency oil stockpiles in the SPR.


Current levels of government-owned supplies are equivalent to about 1,000 times Libya's pre-crisis daily crude output of 1.6mn bpd. The proportion of crude and products in storage varies across countries.


Four storage sites in Texas and Louisiana hold a total of 726.6 mn barrels of crude, enough to cover the nation's needs for more than a month.
Japan and South Korea, among the world's top 5 crude oil importers, have no immediate plans to release oil from strategic reserves to fill any shortfall left by the unrest in Libya, industry and government officials said.


But news about the potential use of US emergency oil stocks has failed to dampen prices.


"It doesn't matter what they say because it's fear," Barratt said, referring to the Obama administration's possible use of the SPR. "We have ample supplies after OPEC, led by Saudi Arabia, stepped in."


OPEC is assessing the oil market to determine whether it should hold an emergency meeting, Mohammed Saleh al-Sada, Qatar's Energy Minister, said on Monday, but added that there is no shortage of supply in the market.


David Buik, a London-based senior market analyst told Al Jazeera, "The recovery is on the way and we don't need a setback like this.


"If we hadn't had this little local difficulty, out of the middle east, I suspect that we would see European industries probably 250 points better than they are at the moment.


"Obviously, when you get geopolitical problems, we tend to underestimate the damage they do to sentiments, and they certainly take the cream off the top."

http://english.aljazeera.net/busines...328409379.html

[thestartmmo]

I want to have many posts

[stumbler]

While pro-Gaddafi forces pound Libyan rebels with planes and tanks and reports of military personnel being shot for refusing to fire on civilians begin to surface, there are also reports of Gaddafi trying to negotiate his and his family's departure from Libya.

That would be an amazingly good thing considering the death toll the civil war is creating must be into the thousands by now I would think.

Here's a story on what the rebels are demanding and what they think Gaddafi is negotiating for.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...847222111.html

[origen01]

Originally Posted by stumbler

While pro-Gaddafi forces pound Libyan rebels with planes and tanks and reports of military personnel being shot for refusing to fire on civilians begin to surface, there are also reports of Gaddafi trying to negotiate his and his family's departure from Libya.

That would be an amazingly good thing considering the death toll the civil war is creating must be into the thousands by now I would think.

Here's a story on what the rebels are demanding and what they think Gaddafi is negotiating for.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...847222111.html

Yeah, this bloodbath's gonna last a while....

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by origen01

Yeah, this bloodbath's gonna last a while....

I'm sitting here right now watching Gaddafi jerk the chain of the international media claiming he's going to give a press conference and they've been dancing around like they were going to pee their pants for about six or seven hours now.

And I keep seeing him and can't understand why no one can't put an assassination on him or why someone doesn't.

I guess that would be a simple solution for a simple mind but it would sure be a short cut.

[stumbler]

Opposition fighters have been forced to withdraw from the central port city of Ras Lanuf as forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi launched a major offensive against rebels fighting to end the Libyan leader's decades-long rule.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...228856242.html

That's probably all you really need to know. Gaddafi didn't remain both insane and in power for 40 years without the means and ruthlessness to enforce his dictatorship. If anything he probably hesitated to unload on the uprising because being insane he was confused by being one of the good ol' boys again, at least for awhile and then had his feelings hurt to learn most of the world wanted him out or dead.

But the fact rebels can't stand up to a well trained and well equipped army should be a surprise to no one. What bothers me though is the reports of house to house searches and the people being rounded up. Those are soon to be silenced voices and probably won't even get counted in the death tolls.

Its going to be a long, bloody, heart breaking fight in Libya I'm afraid and the only ones who can do it are the Libyans themselves.

[scotsmitch2001]

here we go again, Amrica is sending in people to help the rebels in their fight for democracy and freedom.....in other words.....we help you now, you give us access to your oil and, once America get their hands in that pie, what dictator will they put into power to control it?
Some of the posters in this thread ( me included), should know better, we are seeing nothing new here)

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by scotsmitch2001

here we go again, Amrica is sending in people to help the rebels in their fight for democracy and freedom.....in other words.....we help you now, you give us access to your oil and, once America get their hands in that pie, what dictator will they put into power to control it?
Some of the posters in this thread ( me included), should know better, we are seeing nothing new here)

I really don't think the US has anyone left to send in. You guys are on your own. And Russia and China are going to be the big winners on the oil once this settles. At least for awhile.

But I don't think anything in the Middle East is going to stop the people in the middle east from standing up for themselves. The scent of freedom is even stronger than the sent of blood in the nose I believe.

[scotsmitch2001]

Well time will tell, but I dont think Democracy is what they will get.

[stumbler]

I've read reports this morning that rebels in Libya still hold some key cities and the fighting is continuing.

But what I'm watching is whether there are going to be protests in Saudi Arabia even though the government just specifically outlawed any forms of public protests.

Here's a story on a small demonstration in Qatif that is supposed to precede the "Day of Rage" demonstrations.

At least three people have been injured after police in Saudi Arabia fired in the air to disperse protesters in the eastern oil-rich city of Qatif.

The injuries came on the eve of a so-called "Day of Rage" planned in the country for Friday.


Mansur al-Turki, a spokesman for the Saudi interior ministry, said shots were fired on Thursday over the heads of the protesters after they attacked a police officer who was documenting the protest.


Around 600-800 protesters, all Shia and including women, took to the streets of Qatif to demand the release of nine Shia prisoners, said a witness, requesting anonymity for fear of reprisal.


Qatif has a large Shia community although Saudi Arabia is a Sunni-dominated kingdom.


The shooting continued for about 10 minutes and around 200 policemen were present, the witness said.


"As the procession in the heart of the city was about to finish, soldiers started shooting at the protesters, and three of them were wounded," the witness added.


But the interior ministry spokesman insisted police fired live rounds in the air after shots were fired from among the protesters.


"A number of people from within the crowd fired live ammunition. I don't know where they fired and how they fired," al-Turki said.


The ministry said later two protesters - one wounded in the hand; the other in the leg - received hospital treatment for gunshot wounds.
"We have launched an investigation. We investigate what type of guns are used and what bullets," said the spokesman.

Heavy police deployment

The incident came after calls on social networking sites Facebook and Twitter urged people to take part in protests.


Reports said more than 30,000 heeded the call and in Riyadh, the capital, police boosted their presence, parking vehicles with their lights flashing at major junctions and patrolling the roads.


Friday protests have been planned in other Gulf countries including Yemen, Kuwait and Bahrain. The time after Friday prayers has proved to be crucial in popular uprisings that have brought down Tunisian and Egyptian rulers who once seemed invulnerable.


In Washington, the United States reiterated its support for the right to peaceful assembly and said it would closely monitor unrest in Saudi Arabia and restated its support for universal values.
"We will of course continue to monitor closely this particular situation," said Ben Rhodes, a senior foreign policy adviser to Barack Obama, the US president.


Last month, the ultraconservative Saudi government, fearing Tunisia and Egypt-style uprisings would reach its soil, unveiled unprecedented economic package worth an estimated $36bn that will give Saudis interest-free home loans, unemployment assistance and debt forgiveness.


At the same time, it reiterated that demonstrations are forbidden in the kingdom because they contradict Islamic laws and society's values and said security forces were authorised to act against anyone violating the ban.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...542442538.html


I think it will be incredibly interesting to see if people in Saudi Arabia defy the protest ban and how the Saudi Government will react if they do. I'm always believed Saudi Arabia is just as repressive and brutal as Libya but they get a free ride with the western world because they have the largest oil production in the world.

[stumbler]

Everything I've read this morning concerning the revolt in Libya indicates the rebels are getting pounded from the air and Gaddafi's forces are about to retake the entire country.

And naturally the Libyan rebels are pleading for a no fly zone which is actually their only prayer of holding out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_834886.html

But here's the real news to me:

Libya tops Arab League agenda
Regional bloc to discuss possible imposition of no-fly zone as rebels seek global help in stopping Gaddafi's warplanes.

Amr Moussa, the secretary-general of the Arab League, has called for a no-fly zone over Libya, and has said the bloc wants a role in imposing it.
His comments come as members of the organisation meet in the Egyptian capital Cairo for talks on the ongoing crisis.
"I do not know how nor who will impose this zone, that remains to be seen. The Arab League can also play a role, that is what I will recommend," Moussa said on Saturday in an interview with a German magazine.
"I am talking about a humanitarian action. It consists, with a no-fly zone, of supporting the Libyan people in their fight for freedom against a regime that is more and more disdainful."


Support from the West for a no-fly zone appears to hinge on the outcome of the meeting as consensus is sought for such an action.

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, said on Saturday that it remains unclear whether imposing a no-fly zone over Libya would be a "wise" move.

"This is not a question of whether we or our allies can do this. We can do it," Gates said.

"The question is whether it's a wise thing to do and that's the discussion that's going on at a political level."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131210523493528.html


I'm not sure I believe Secretary Gates hesitation on this. I think that's to appear not too over eager. I'm betting if the Arab League formally requests a no fly zone over Libya we've got war planes on the runways already warmed up.

[stumbler]

I was wondering if the planned protests in Saudi Arabia would actually take place and while a few hundred people did demonstrate in the eastern part of the country it appears Saudi police successfully blocked any protests in the main city.

Here's a pretty good update on that and the rest of the Middle East protests.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Several hundred people protested in at least four locations in Shi’ite-dominated eastern Saudi Arabia yesterday, but hundreds of police in the country’s capital prevented rallies calling for democratic reforms.

Police blocked roads and set up random checkpoints in Riyadh, searching residents and vehicles around a central mosque as large numbers of people gathered for Friday prayers, after Saudi activists set up online groups calling for protests in the capital.


In the eastern city of Qatif and nearby areas where the country’s minority Shi’ites live, several hundred protesters shouted slogans calling for reforms and equality between Shi’ites and Sunnis.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...ts_in_capital/

[stumbler]

Well the Arab League has asked the UN for a no fly zone above Libya but I doubt that's going to stand much of a chance of getting approved with Russia and China on the Security Council.

So I wonder how they are going to get around that. I doubt the US will undertake enforcing a no fly zone alone even at the request of the Arab League.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...852687848.html

[Empress Lainie]

I kept wondering WHO was behind all this.....obviously someone financed it and instigated it.

Now one source clearly points to the US. Not surprised, I am.

[PatronofPorn]

U.S. says Saudi forces in Bahrain "not an invasion"

(Reuters) - The United States does not consider the entry into Bahrain of Saudi Arabian security forces an invasion, the White House said on Monday.
Sunni-ruled Saudi Arabia sent about 1,000 troops into Bahrain to protect government facilities after mainly Shi'ite protesters overran police and blocked roads.
"We've seen the reports that you're talking about. This is not an invasion of a country," White House spokesman Jay Carney told a news briefing.
"We urge the government of Bahrain, as we have repeatedly, as well as other GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) countries, to exercise restraint," Carney added.
The Gulf Cooperation Council comprises Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72D6RB20110314

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by PatronofPorn

U.S. says Saudi forces in Bahrain "not an invasion"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72D6RB20110314

WTF

So the US isn't propping up dictators. We're going to let our friends in Saudi Arabia do that? What a bunch of bullshit. Saudi Arabia is actually nothing more than one extremely wealthy ruling family and its damn sure in their best interest not to all democracy to spread in the Middle East.

But I can't believe the US and President Obama is going to allow this.

Anyway thanks for posting this Patron. It was news to me.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by PatronofPorn

U.S. says Saudi forces in Bahrain "not an invasion"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72D6RB20110314

Allow me to update this because it appears to me its getting more complex and dangerous in the Middle East by the day.

Iran objects to foreign troops in Bahrain

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran called the deployment of foreign troops in Bahrain unacceptable on Tuesday and warned Saudi Arabia and its ally Washington of "dangerous consequences" for intervening in the island nation's political crisis.


About 1,000 Saudi soldiers entered Bahrain on Monday as part of an effort by the six-nation Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) to help the government cope with protests by members of the Shi'ite majority.


The move has alarmed Iran, the main Shi'ite power in the Gulf where most ruling families are Sunni Arabs. Analysts say Saudi Arabia's action might increase tensions with Iran -- both major oil exporters -- to dangerous levels.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/1...ps-in-bahrain/



What kind of political sense or even common sense for that matter does it make for the League of Arab Nations to call for a No-Fly zone over Libya and then the six-nation Gulf Cooperation Council (what ever the fuck that is) to be calling for troops to quash the protest in Bahrain?

[stumbler]

Its a shock to me but the UN just passed a No Fly Zone over Libya.

Stay tuned because this is a whole new ballgame.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Its a shock to me but the UN just passed a No Fly Zone over Libya.

Stay tuned because this is a whole new ballgame.

It's about 2 weeks too late, but it's better then never.

Qaddafi is on his way out, but I dont think he knows that yet.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

It's about 2 weeks too late, but it's better then never.

Qaddafi is on his way out, but I dont think he knows that yet.

He probably does now. Gaddafi was about one city away from crushing the opposition. And supposedly said he was not even going to send the military in to deal with the remaining "terrorists." You know being the great humanitarian he is.

This says the rest of the world either wants him out or at the very least is going to stand by while the rest of the world evicts him. I was nearly positive that either Russia, China or both would veto the No-Fly resolution. Instead they abstained which is the green light for the jets.

My only question is how far along they are on their plans and how long its going to take to put jets in the air.

And in the meantime I'm pretty sure they are still shooting protesters in Bahrain. Go figure? But think oil.

[ace's n 8's]

[QUOTE=stumbler;3905751]

He probably does now. Gaddafi was about one city away from crushing the opposition. And supposedly said he was not even going to send the military in to deal with the remaining "terrorists." You know being the great humanitarian he is.

Gaddafi wants to ''cleanse'' Lybia of all protesters.

This says the rest of the world either wants him out or at the very least is going to stand by while the rest of the world evicts him. I was nearly positive that either Russia, China or both would veto the No-Fly resolution. Instead they abstained which is the green light for the jets.

Russia and China both voted NO.

My only question is how far along they are on their plans and how long its going to take to put jets in the air.

WITHIN HOURS,,is what I just heard. The Britts and the French.

And in the meantime I'm pretty sure they are still shooting protesters in Bahrain. Go figure? But think oil.

They are shooting everyone that opposes Qaddafi's rule.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

]Gaddafi wants to ''cleanse'' Lybia of all protesters.

Russia and China both voted NO.

WITHIN HOURS,,is what I just heard. The Britts and the French.

They are shooting everyone that opposes Qaddafi's rule.

Hey this is news to me Ace and I don't know if I believe it or not or will believe it when I see it.

Britain, France ready to enforce Libya no-fly zone

CAIRO, Egypt — The U.N. Security Council Thursday gave the go-ahead to Britain and France — backed by the United States and at least two Arab nations — to launch airstrikes to enforce a no fly zone over Libya and to protect civilians in rebel-held areas from forces loyal to dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/1...#ixzz1Gu5lpJjJ

That would be something if it was someone besides US.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Hey this is news to me Ace and I don't know if I believe it or not or will believe it when I see it.

Britain, France ready to enforce Libya no-fly zone

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/1...#ixzz1Gu5lpJjJ

That would be something if it was someone besides US.

The U.S. does not have their orders yet, or how we will participate in this ''NO FLY ZONE'', our leader has not been able to make this decision yet,,am I surprised,,not one bit.

I have heard that we may aid in logistics, and mid-air refueling.

France has a major interest in the oil that comes out of Libya. It's more to their use.

[richief]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Is a no fly zone going to be enough, will they have the ROE to hit ground forces or just Triple A and aircraft? I said Libya would be a bloodbath and sadly I was right.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Is a no fly zone going to be enough, will they have the ROE to hit ground forces or just Triple A and aircraft? I said Libya would be a bloodbath and sadly I was right.

I say a no fly zone would have been enough if it were implemented 2-3 weeks earlier. Gahdafi has killed alot of his opposition, there are not many left to fight, unless more come out for the opposition during and after the shit gets a little more fair for the peasants with handguns.

[richief]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

I say a no fly zone would have been enough if it were implemented 2-3 weeks earlier. Gahdafi has killed alot of his opposition, there are not many left to fight, unless more come out for the opposition during and after the shit gets a little more fair for the peasants with handguns.

We have the capabilities to swamp the coastal area with planes including mud thumpers, we can put up awacs and destroy anything that rotates off the ground, just tell the guys to prosecute and they will, but politicians will waver and hold off and allow the fucker to get away with it. This is something the public want, as opposed to the Iraqi fuck up, but they will fuck it up with tight ROE and the pilots will just watch folk die. They should just say "do it" and fuck the bad press.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

We have the capabilities to swamp the coastal area with planes including mud thumpers, we can put up awacs and destroy anything that rotates off the ground, just tell the guys to prosecute and they will, but politicians will waver and hold off and allow the fucker to get away with it. This is something the public want, as opposed to the Iraqi fuck up, but they will fuck it up with tight ROE and the pilots will just watch folk die. They should just say "do it" and fuck the bad press.

I absolutely agree.The people of Libya are looking to the U.S. for the help that they require, Obama is against any direct involvement, as I am seeing, but we may assist behind the lines. Obama does not want any repercussions of the world stating that we had direct involment, so that we are not a bully.

[PatronofPorn]

It isn't just a no-fly zone that was authorized today.

A draft UN resolution tabled by the UK, France and Lebanon on Tuesday proposed a ban on all flights in Libya, authorised member states to enforce it and called on them to participate in it.



But on Thursday the US, which had been cool on the effectiveness of a no-fly zone, said the UN should go further and a new strongly-worded draft resolution was put forward calling for "all necessary measures short of an occupation force" to protect civilians under threat of attack from the Gaddafi regime.



The resolution would permit air strikes on Libyan ground troops or allow attacks on Libyan war ships if they were attacking civilians, the BBC's Barbara Plett at the UN said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Our planes and our ships can fully have at the bastard and his forces now.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by PatronofPorn

It isn't just a no-fly zone that was authorized today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Our planes and our ships can fully have at the bastard and his forces now.

Gahdafi needs to be in handcuffs within 12 hours, or this will get real fucking nasty for the world,except for China and Russia of course.

[richief]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

I say a no fly zone would have been enough if it were implemented 2-3 weeks earlier. Gahdafi has killed alot of his opposition, there are not many left to fight, unless more come out for the opposition during and after the shit gets a little more fair for the peasants with handguns.

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

I absolutely agree.The people of Libya are looking to the U.S. for the help that they require, Obama is against any direct involvement, as I am seeing, but we may assist behind the lines. Obama does not want any repercussions of the world stating that we had direct involment, so that we are not a bully.

This is totally different from Iraq, in slot the bastard, do a bit of shopping while the ad hoc government sorts itself out and off home for tea and medals. Fucking simple.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

This is totally different from Iraq, in slot the bastard, do a bit of shopping while the ad hoc government sorts itself out and off home for tea and medals. Fucking simple.

I'll give you a quarter if you run in and bring me his head back.

[richief]

Make it a quart of Wild turkey and we have a deal.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

Make it a quart of Wild turkey and we have a deal.

You're too fucking expensive,,,how about a couple a shots?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

The U.S. does not have their orders yet, or how we will participate in this ''NO FLY ZONE'', our leader has not been able to make this decision yet,,am I surprised,,not one bit.

I have heard that we may aid in logistics, and mid-air refueling.

France has a major interest in the oil that comes out of Libya. It's more to their use.

I'll tell you Ace I'm about ready to call shannagians (sp) like some of our international members do sometimes on this one and I'll bet Gaddafi is going to be bitching bait and switch.

It's the UK that's ready to put planes in the air and I do mean now. They've been gunning all along when Gaddafi and everyone else was watching US.

Originally Posted by richief

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Is a no fly zone going to be enough, will they have the ROE to hit ground forces or just Triple A and aircraft? I said Libya would be a bloodbath and sadly I was right.

No shit. I've been watching Libya like 16 hours a day and haven't heard one word of that.

Neither had Gaddafi I bet and its a whole new enemy. One with previous experience,

I did not see that coming.

Originally Posted by PatronofPorn

It isn't just a no-fly zone that was authorized today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467

Our planes and our ships can fully have at the bastard and his forces now.

You ain't kidding, I saw the same thing. Its whatever it takes to protect civilians.

And what does that mean?

I'll tell you after I pull the trigger and it will mean whatever I say.

He's toast.

[richief]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

You're too fucking expensive,,,how about a couple a shots?

Cheapskate mf, go a bottle of Irish at the least

[stumbler]

............ it looks like the US could be going in on the ground if hitting Gaddafi from the air doesn't work.

UN Security Council Approves No-Fly Zone Over Libya

Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi have driven back rebels to the eastern city of Benghazi this week. And after weeks of ambiguity about an official position on Libya, the Obama administration yesterday said the U.S. would support military action beyond a no-fly zone to prevent a humanitarian disaster. “We need to be prepared to contemplate steps that include, but perhaps go beyond, a no-fly zone at this point, as the situation on the ground has evolved, and as a no-fly zone has inherent limitations in terms of protection of civilians at immediate risk,” U.S. ambassador to the UN Susan Rice said.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/17/un-no-fly-libya/

[ace's n 8's]

[QUOTE=stumbler;3906267]

I'll tell you Ace I'm about ready to call shannagians (sp) like some of our international members do sometimes on this one and I'll bet Gaddafi is going to be bitching bait and switch. It's the UK that's ready to put planes in the air and I do mean now.
They've been gunning all along when Gaddafi and everyone else was watching US.

Hey, I'll go with that.
Fuck, it's not like the U.S. does not have proof that he financed and ordered the bombing of that plane, why wouldn't everyone be watching us. I am more intensely surprised that France wants to get involved in any of this, actually I'm speechless about it.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

Cheapskate mf, go a bottle of Irish at the least

Wait a second,I just scratched a winning lottery ticket, 2 qts. of Wild Turkey it is, but make sure you get his sunglasses too,for me,,,you can keep that funky fuckin' hat that he wears.