Obama administration ok's gun smuggling too Mexico

[Cornelious]

Is anyone really surprised by all this

[CFH420]

Using an executive order to hide information...tsk tsk


What a failure as a leader, and the people who support him are failures at being intelligent humans.


I hope they blast this shit open today...not that it matters though, nobody cares.

[stumbler]

Contempt: Now what?

Once the House committee votes in favor of citing Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt, it goes to the full House for consideration.
If the full House votes in favor of the contempt citation, the issue is sent to the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. A federal law adopted by Congress in 1857 directs federal prosecutors to refer these matters to a grand jury for possible prosecution. The language is mandatory as to the U.S. attorney: "whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action."


But from there on, it gets complicated.


The Justice Department has long taken the position, as a separation of powers matter, that Congress cannot force the Justice Department to undertake a prosecution of an executive branch official. The courts have never resolved the question.



The Justice Department, under both Democratic and Republican administrations, has further claimed that a U.S. attorney must not initiate a prosecution when the president has asserted executive privilege over what Congress seeks.


The administration of George W. Bush most recently made this claim during the congressional investigation of the firings of several U.S. attorneys nationwide. Congress subpoenaed former White House counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Josh Bolton, and the president directed that neither should testify or produce the requested documents. Though the broad issue of executive privlege went to court, it is still unresolved.


Another gray area here is how much a president can cover under the umbrella of an assertion of executive privilege. The further a matter gets from the White House and presidential decision making, the more the courts have been unwilling to recognize it.


On a broader point, the federal courts have been reluctant to referee what they see as fights between the White House and Congress. During the legal battle over Miers, the federal district court in Washington practically begged the two sides to work it out without suing each other.


"The court strongly encourages the political branches to resume their discourse and negotiations in an effort to resolve their differences constructively," it said.


And finally, there's this point to remember: if this does end up in court, it could take up to two years to resolve, given the time for a trial and subsequent appeals. However, a contempt citation is valid only during the Congress which approved it. Each term of Congress lasts only two years, so if the issue was still in the courts when this Congress ends in a year and a half, the contempt citation would evaporate, and so would any lawsuit.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-now-what?lite

[Rixer]

Originally Posted by stumbler

And as far as the raids on Marijuana dispensaries those are also being conducted by local US attorneys and involve what they consider large illegal marijuana dealing operations that are far beyond any reasonable definition of caregiver.

That's what he's saying but it's another lie. They are raiding the most upfront taxpaying legal state authorized marijuana dispensaries and growers. and shutting them down. Obama has sold out and most everybody knows it.

by Scott Morgan.

"For the millionth time, if they're breaking state laws, then they can be prosecuted by the state. None of this amounts to any remote justification for federal intervention, but moreover, we know this is garbage anyway because they've targeted numerous businesses that were considered models of effective local regulation. The President is implying that these people deserved what they got, which is outrageous.
Think about this: federal prosecutors have even threatened to charge state employees simply for working to ensure legal compliance by licensed medical marijuana businesses. Obama claims to be concerned about illegal recreational sales, while his agents have been actively threatening to arrest the very people whose job it is to prevent that sort of thing. It's nuts. Everything he's saying is horribly disingenuous at best, and anyone who's followed the issue at all ought to see right through it"

[ELaken-Palmer]

Obama administration ok's gun smuggling too Mexico

ALSO Mexico? So he ok's gun smuggling AND he ok'd Mexico? So Mexico is okay with Obama? What IS the question?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Rixer

That's what he's saying but it's another lie. They are raiding the most upfront taxpaying legal state authorized marijuana dispensaries and growers. and shutting them down. Obama has sold out and most everybody knows it.

by Scott Morgan.

"For the millionth time, if they're breaking state laws, then they can be prosecuted by the state. None of this amounts to any remote justification for federal intervention, but moreover, we know this is garbage anyway because they've targeted numerous businesses that were considered models of effective local regulation. The President is implying that these people deserved what they got, which is outrageous.
Think about this: federal prosecutors have even threatened to charge state employees simply for working to ensure legal compliance by licensed medical marijuana businesses. Obama claims to be concerned about illegal recreational sales, while his agents have been actively threatening to arrest the very people whose job it is to prevent that sort of thing. It's nuts. Everything he's saying is horribly disingenuous at best, and anyone who's followed the issue at all ought to see right through it"

There's a great deal of truth in what you're saying but I still maintain its far more complicated than President Obama suddenly deciding to shut down medical Marijuana businesses. But the one problem he can't get past is as the Chief Executive he is responsible for enforcing all federal laws. And marijuana in any form is against federal law.

So the president can't change that law, not enforcing it would be political suicide and the only ones who can do anything about it congress.

How come none this hostility gets directed at them?

[stumbler]

This is just a great smackdown and an indication that I don't think we've begun to see politics yet.

Nancy Pelosi Slams Contempt Vote: 'I Could Have Arrested Karl Rove ... But We Didn't'

WASHINGTON -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Wednesday that the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is playing politics with its vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress, an action she said that even she didn't seek as House Speaker when she thought someone was legitimately deserving of it.


"I could have arrested Karl Rove on any given day," Pelosi said to laughter, during a sit-down with reporters. "I'm not kidding. There's a prison here in the Capitol ... If we had spotted him in the Capitol, we could have arrested him."


Rove was senior advisor and deputy chief of staff to former President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2007.


Asked on what grounds she could have arrested Rove, Pelosi replied, "Oh, any number. But there were some specific ones for his being in contempt of Congress. But we didn't."


The House committee is voting Wednesday whether to hold the U.S. attorney general in contempt of Congress for not handing over certain documents sought by the committee chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.). The contempt vote comes after months of complaining by Issa that Holder is refusing to comply with subpoenas for materials relating to the Justice Department's botched Operation Fast and Furious. Holder, who has already given the committee 7,600 documents, maintains he can only provide so many materials without breaching confidentiality rules.


Pelosi sounded off on the ordeal ahead of the committee vote.
"This is just strictly political," she said. "It's just the irresponsibility of the Republicans. We want jobs. Why are they spending this time doing this?"

The Democratic leader also took a shot at Issa for abusing the process of holding an official in contempt.

"'Loose cannon' would sort of be like such a compliment to Darrell Issa. 'Loose cannon' would be a moderate phrase. This is an explosive device," she said. "It doesn't serve our country, and it undermines the true purpose of contempt of Congress."

"That's why I didn't arrest Karl Rove when I had the chance."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1613086.html

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Rixer

That's what he's saying but it's another lie. They are raiding the most upfront taxpaying legal state authorized marijuana dispensaries and growers. and shutting them down. Obama has sold out and most everybody knows it.

by Scott Morgan.

"For the millionth time, if they're breaking state laws, then they can be prosecuted by the state. None of this amounts to any remote justification for federal intervention, but moreover, we know this is garbage anyway because they've targeted numerous businesses that were considered models of effective local regulation. The President is implying that these people deserved what they got, which is outrageous.
Think about this: federal prosecutors have even threatened to charge state employees simply for working to ensure legal compliance by licensed medical marijuana businesses. Obama claims to be concerned about illegal recreational sales, while his agents have been actively threatening to arrest the very people whose job it is to prevent that sort of thing. It's nuts. Everything he's saying is horribly disingenuous at best, and anyone who's followed the issue at all ought to see right through it"

This is an honest and sincere question because you seem to have better access than I do. But are the raids continuing? I know some landlords have been threatened lately but I haven't heard about any more raids. Are they still happening?

[Rixer]

Originally Posted by stumbler

This is an honest and sincere question because you seem to have better access than I do. But are the raids continuing? I know some landlords have been threatened lately but I haven't heard about any more raids. Are they still happening?

Yes they're still happening. Just the other day, the DEA swooped in and raided El Camino Wellness Center in Sacramento. They were the first permitted dispensary in Sacramento and a model dispensary. Here's an informative article.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/06...d_on_sacto.php

At any rate, Obama can take marijuana off the schedule 1 list by executive order, he doesn't need congress. He might lose campaign contributions from the prison and drug industries though.

[KrazyKraut]

If any of you have not realized it yet...the big picture is his administration is working on removing ALL the firearms in the USA...Sooooo by doing that and allowing MORE guns to be brought in and go out THAT opens the door for some really heavy legislation for removal of them altogether....think outside the box and the picture will become crystal clear

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Rixer

Yes they're still happening. Just the other day, the DEA swooped in and raided El Camino Wellness Center in Sacramento. They were the first permitted dispensary in Sacramento and a model dispensary. Here's an informative article.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/06...d_on_sacto.php

At any rate, Obama can take marijuana off the schedule 1 list by executive order, he doesn't need congress. He might lose campaign contributions from the prison and drug industries though.

Thank you and I do mean that sincerely.

But no he can't. Not president Obama. Even if he wants to and I don't think he does. President Obama can't be the nigger that legalizes dope.

Man you just have to see that political and racist reality.

That's what the conservative/Republican/Tea Party has been hoping for from the beginning.

PS Rixer I'm not just an asshole; I'm an asshole deluxe. but I didn't mean to be one to you. I'll be back here in a few days and would like an update.

[stumbler]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

[tim929]

I havent paid much attention to this thread but the gun walk program was first done by the Bush administartion and was continued by Obama. Apperantly it semed like a good idea at the time.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by tim929

I havent paid much attention to this thread but the gun walk program was first done by the Bush administartion and was continued by Obama. Apperantly it semed like a good idea at the time.

No it wasn't....

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

A "fortune investigation"???? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by tim929

I havent paid much attention to this thread but the gun walk program was first done by the Bush administartion and was continued by Obama. Apperantly it semed like a good idea at the time.

Actually that's not quite correct. The gun walking strategy was begun under Bush appointees. And even though there were direct orders to the contrary afterwards from the DOJ Operation Fast and Furious was begun by the same Bush holdover because the conservative/Republican/Tea Baggers in congress are blocking all of President Obama's appointments 3 1/2 years later.

[stumbler]

Clash Over ‘Hackery’ In Fast And Furious Scandal

Geraldo Rivera appeared on The O’Reilly Factor last night to talk to Laura Ingraham about Operation Fast and Furious, and the subsequent contempt vote for Attorney General Eric Holder clearly upset him as “political hackery.” Ingraham and Rivera got into a bit of a shoutfest over the matter, as Rivera challenged the audience to stop asking about Holder’s motives and instead ask, “What is Darrell Issa hiding?



“I don’t understand for the life of me how Darrell Issa and this committee could expect a criminal contempt to result in an indictment,” Rivera told Ingraham, adding that the real question in the matter was the motivation driving Rep. Issa and not Attorney General Holder.



“Why is he so intent on creating a scandal that will go away because John Boehner and the Republicans need this like they need a hole in the head?” Rivera asked, adding that projects like Fast and Furious “happen all the time and is a horrible idea.”


Ingraham then began to ask questions about the “wiretap bombshell” and whether he considered Rep. Issa a “hack,” which led to Rivera raising his voice about the matter and asking her to stop interrupting him. He continued to be upset about those who “invoke Brian Terry‘s name to make a political point,” and argued that this would end with House Speaker Boehner leaving to go fry bigger fish while “Issa will return to the obscurity of the Oversight Committee.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/geraldo-r...rious-scandal/

[AZRIEL]

[stumbler]

Fast and Furious: Grassley presses Holder on ‘false letter’

Sen. Chuck Grassley is demanding to know who at the Justice Department saw a memo written by a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive agent about the botched Fast and Furious gun-walking operation that was allegedly sent to the Department of Justice just one day before the agency denied that guns had crossed the U.S.-Mexico border.


In a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Tuesday, the Iowa Republican said the memo was forwarded to DOJ on Feb. 3, 2011, the day before the department insisted that gun-walking had not taken place as a part of Fast and Furious, which allowed thousands of guns to land in the hands of Mexican cartels. One of those guns has been linked to the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry.


“According to ATF personnel, the memorandum was discussed by high level ATF personnel and possibly forwarded to DOJ headquarters on Feb. 3, 2011,” Grassley, the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, wrote. “Some individuals who spoke with my office claim they were ‘alarmed’ by the substance of the memorandum and it caused such a stir that ATF planned to put a panel together to address the allegations but someone within the DOJ suppressed the idea.”


Grassley asserted that DOJ should have been “abundantly aware” of allegations of gun-walking before it sent an “erroneous letter” to Congress on Feb. 4, and that this “raises more questions about DOJ’s claim that faulty information from Department components inadvertently led to the false letter.”


Grassley is requesting that Holder give a written response no later than July 17, providing further information about the ATF memo, including which DOJ personnel saw it on Feb 3.


The House voted last week to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for refusing to hand over some documents in the ongoing Fast and Furious investigation.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1zgMFE74J

This is getting more comical by the day. What Holder and the DOJ knew and when they knew it has already been well established including the fact that the reason the DOJ initially said they were confident there was no "gun walking" taking place is because it was strictly against DOJ policy to begin with. That's when they found out the hard way after making that statement to the congressional investigation just how wrong they were because they had no idea what the ATF Bush appointed Holdovers were doing down in Arizona.

But I bet I know what Holder's response is going to be; "Hey you're already suing me just add that one to the list to be decided on by some judge, some day.

[stumbler]

Its time for me to say I told you so. That neither Attorney General Eric Holder or President Obama knew about Operation Fast and Furious before it happened and did not authorize it.

And now even Rep. Issa and his Republican committee have to admit that's true.

GOP Fast And Furious Report Singles Out 5 ATF Officials

Issa's report says that federal agents and William Newell, head of the Phoenix division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, may have viewed the Justice Department strategy statement as "the green light they had been waiting for" to engage in what became Operation Fast and Furious.



The Republican draft report on Operation Fast and Furious says that Newell and four other ATF officials share much of the blame for what went wrong with the Arizona gun-smuggling probe.


All five were removed from their jobs and reassigned a year ago. Attorney General Eric Holder has said further personnel changes could be made, depending on the findings in an upcoming review of Fast and Furious by the Justice Department inspector general.


Schmaler said the report does signal a notable shift in that the Issa-led House Oversight and Government Reform Committee "finally acknowledges what the attorney general and other department officials have been saying from the beginning – that the flaws in this operation, and in previous ones, had their origins in the field in Arizona and occurred, in part, due to weak oversight by ATF leadership."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...p_ref=politics

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Its time for me to say I told you so. That neither Attorney General Eric Holder or President Obama knew about Operation Fast and Furious before it happened and did not authorize it.

And now even Rep. Issa and his Republican committee have to admit that's true.

GOP Fast And Furious Report Singles Out 5 ATF Officials




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...p_ref=politics

That article does not say Obama and Holder didn't have prior knowledge. Nor does it exonerate them in any way.

It just proves how out of control things are under Obama and Holder.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

That article does not say Obama and Holder didn't have prior knowledge. Nor does it exonerate them in any way.

It just proves how out of control things are under Obama and Holder.

Let me see if I can help you out there because you obviously have great difficulty reading.

Schmaler said the report does signal a notable shift in that the Issa-led House Oversight and Government Reform Committee "finally acknowledges what the attorney general and other department officials have been saying from the beginning – that the flaws in this operation, and in previous ones, had their origins in the field in Arizona and occurred, in part, due to weak oversight by ATF leadership."

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Let me see if I can help you out there because you obviously have great difficulty reading.

Schmaler said the report does signal a notable shift in that the Issa-led House Oversight and Government Reform Committee "finally acknowledges what the attorney general and other department officials have been saying from the beginning – that the flaws in this operation, and in previous ones, had their origins in the field in Arizona and occurred, in part, due to weak oversight by ATF leadership."


__________________

Like I said before

That article does not say Obama and Holder didn't have prior knowledge. Nor does it exonerate them in any way.

It just proves how out of control things are under Obama and Holder.

[stumbler]

Daily Caller Reporter Admits No Evidence For Anti-Holder Claims Highlighted By Article He Wrote

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08...-for-an/189349

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Daily Caller Reporter Admits No Evidence For Anti-Holder Claims Highlighted By Article He Wrote

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08...-for-an/189349

Media Matters is a phony libtard blog you pinhead. Only a brainless fool like you would believe their lying twisted liberal garbage.

[ridgerunner]

nature boy and all of those that believe that obama had a direct knowledge of the situation or of its failures and had actualy endorsed it
show 100% non-biased based evidence that shows that the president himself was the originator of the plan

failure of that show any form of evidence that puts his fingers within the plan and its outcome

[spjames]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

Media Matters is a phony libtard blog you pinhead. Only a brainless fool like you would believe their lying twisted liberal garbage.

As opposed to say Fox news's and Rush Limbaugh's lying and twisted conservative garbage?

If you consider exposing lying and twisted misinformation from right wing media to be phony I shudder to think what you consider real and honest.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

nature boy and all of those that believe that obama had a direct knowledge of the situation or of its failures and had actualy endorsed it
show 100% non-biased based evidence that shows that the president himself was the originator of the plan

failure of that show any form of evidence that puts his fingers within the plan and its outcome

It would be inexcusable for Holder and Obama to not know of such an operation....

It's time for Obama and Holder to come clean. The Sergeant Schultz defense is getting old.....

[ridgerunner]

as i said show any level of evidence that obama knew of and a direct hand or finger in the dealings

holder may have known but that is niether here or there

evidence that the president knowingly placed inncent american lives in danger from organized crime cartels is an impeachable offence


so prove it

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

as i said show any level of evidence that obama knew of and a direct hand or finger in the dealings

holder may have known but that is niether here or there

evidence that the president knowingly placed inncent american lives in danger from organized crime cartels is an impeachable offence


so prove it

They can't because its not true. Here's another story, this time on the Investigator Generals leaked report to Fox News. It hammers on the leadership of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives but once fails to show any knowledge of Fast and Furious on the part of Holder and President Obama.

Report: IG rips DOJ on Fast and Furious

High-ranking government officials failed to “balance the risks” of allowing an estimated 2,000 assault weapons to reach Mexico in an effort stop trafficking into the U.S., according to portions of a leaked inspector general’s report obtained by Fox News.


Fox’s William La Jeunesse writes that the Justice Department’s soon-to-be-released internal report will illustrate a “failure in leadership” and “lack of accountability and oversight up and down the chain of command” at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Justice Department pertaining to the gun trafficking operation, commonly referred to as Operation Fast and Furious.


“It says many senior executives knew the U.S. was helping traffic guns to Mexico that killed people but did nothing to stop it,” La Jeunesse writes.


ATF managers Bill Newell, Dave Both and Hope MacAllister receive most of the blame, according to the report. Their attorneys maintained their clients’ innocence to Fox News.


The Fox report doesn’t discuss what the IG’s report says about Attorney General Eric Holder’s role.


The full internal investigation led by Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz could be released as soon as this week. A House hearing is scheduled for Sept. 19.


The scandal was ignited after U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was killed December 2010, and guns from Fast and Furious were found nearby. Under the gun-walking program, the feds allowed weapons bought in the U.S. to flow to Mexico where they hoped to track them to drug cartel leaders.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz26CPYVYuE

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

They can't because its not true. Here's another story, this time on the Investigator Generals leaked report to Fox News. It hammers on the leadership of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives but once fails to show any knowledge of Fast and Furious on the part of Holder and President Obama.

Report: IG rips DOJ on Fast and Furious

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz26CPYVYuE

The incompetence goes all the way to the top. Obama and Holder are nothing but liars with blood on their hands.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

The incompetence goes all the way to the top. Obama and Holder are nothing but liars with blood on their hands.

That coming from a brainwashed stupid and ignorant parrot like yourself sure don't make it so.

How long have you been contending this would be the end of President Obama and Eric Holder both? And in all that time and all those investigations there has not been one shred of evidence that anyone other than the Bush holdovers in the ATF knew about Operation Fast and Furious.

You're just bullshitting yourself there Parrot.

PS Because you're too brainwashed and ignorant and stupid to actually know or even look for yourself its been more than a year and 3 months since this scandal broke and not one piece of it has been connected to President Obama or Attorney General Eric Holder.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

That coming from a brainwashed stupid and ignorant parrot like yourself sure don't make it so.

How long have you been contending this would be the end of President Obama and Eric Holder both? And in all that time and all those investigations there has not been one shred of evidence that anyone other than the Bush holdovers in the ATF knew about Operation Fast and Furious.

You're just bullshitting yourself there Parrot.

PS Because you're too brainwashed and ignorant and stupid to actually know or even look for yourself its been more than a year and 3 months since this scandal broke and not one piece of it has been connected to President Obama or Attorney General Eric Holder.

Speak for yourself loser. The only thing I have been "contending" is voting that POS Obama out this November and watching your cry about it like an ass hurt bitch....

[stumbler]

Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting

A long-awaited report on the U.S. government’s controversial gun-trafficking operation known as “Fast and Furious” released Wednesday found no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder knew of the botched effort to trace the flow of guns to Mexico’s drug cartels prior to its public unraveling in January 2011.



The report by the Justice Department’s inspector general said there "no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation" before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011.


The inspector general did determine that the acting deputy attorney general, Gary Grindler, received a briefing about the ill-fated gun-tracing operation in March 2010, but that the briefing "failed to alert Grindler to problems in the investigation."



The operation, which reportedly allowed some 2,000 weapons to flow across the border, has become a politically charged partisan dispute heading into the November elections, with congressional Republicans charging that the Obama administration has withheld documents that would show the involvement of senior government officials, including Holder.


On June 28, the Republican-led House of Representatives voted to hold. Holder in contempt of Congress for failing to disclose internal Justice Department documents in response to a subpoena – the first time that sanction has been imposed on a sitting member of a president’s Cabinet.


The department’s inspector general spent more than a year investigating the so-called “gun-walking” scandal – in which agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, commonly known by the ATF acronym, in Arizona allow suspected gun runners to take guns into Mexico. The Fast and Furious operation was part of a broader initiative known as Project Gunrunner.



Local ATF officials and local prosecutors believed they could then follow the weapons to the cartel higher-ups in Mexico. It didn't work that way. Thousands of guns were lost and only lower-level straw buyers of the weapons were ever arrested.



Two of the weapons turned up at the scene of a shootout where a federal border agent, Brian Terry, was killed on Dec. 14, 2010, near the Mexico border, though those guns were never tied directly to his death.



Rep. Darrel Issa, R-Calif., who has led the House investigation of Fast and Furious, has estimated that 200 Mexican civilians were killed by weapons linked to the operation.



A Mexican legislator, Humberto Benitez Trevino, claimed last year that weapons that crossed the border during the attempted sting have been linked to the deaths or wounding of at least 150 Mexican civilians, but did not provide any supporting documentation or say how that number was calculated.


NBC News' Justice Correspondent Pete Williams and Projects Editor Mike Brunker contributed to this report.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...ing-sting?lite

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting

[/I]


http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...ing-sting?lite

The corrupt Obama administration continues it's cover up. Big surprise.

[stumbler]

Holder slams Republicans after being cleared in ‘Fast and Furious’ investigation

“It is unfortunate that some were so quick to make baseless accusations before they possessed the facts about these operations – accusations that turned out to be without foundation and that have caused a great deal of unnecessary harm and confusion,” Holder said. “I hope today’s report acts as a reminder of the dangers of adopting as fact unsubstantiated conclusions before an investigation of the circumstances is completed.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/1...investigation/

[mustang25]

This is an outrage that was meant to show the need for tighter gun control in the US and it blew up in there face! Everyone in evolved should be sent to Mexico to stand trial!
Before it blew up the media was sending out propaganda about guns going to mexico little did we know it was the ATF

[ridgerunner]

and even after all this time natureboy still hasnt provided evidence
he must be too busy making up bullshit accusations and insults

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

and even after all this time natureboy still hasnt provided evidence
he must be too busy making up bullshit accusations and insults

We tend to ignore morons like you. You are such a pathetic phony, no one here takes your immature lying ass serious.

[ridgerunner]

most likely you just know that you are arguing a false point and cannot evidence it to prove your point and have to hide behind name calling an defensive posturing

is that perhaps because the program was originated by a republican president?
or more to that you just cannot admit that you are incorrect in your assertions?

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

most likely you just know that you are arguing a false point and cannot evidence it to prove your point and have to hide behind name calling an defensive posturing

is that perhaps because the program was originated by a republican president?
or more to that you just cannot admit that you are incorrect in your assertions?

If you read this thread, you will find we have already debunked the claim that fast and furious was started under Bush.

Or better yet, find someone with reading comprehension skills to read it to you and perhaps explain to you what it means.....

Or just keep acting stupid.... You are good for a cheap laugh......

[ridgerunner]

did i ever state that it was began under bush????
no i didnt the government has been supplying weapons to the enemies since WW1 and even before

so again show any and all imperical evidence that this was an obama policy

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

did i ever state that it was began under bush????
no i didnt the government has been supplying weapons to the enemies since WW1 and even before

so again show any and all imperical evidence that this was an obama policy

They can't provide that proof because the only thing that changed about the gun walking operation was it was called Operation "Wide Receiver" under President Bush and was renamed "Operation Fast and Furious" the next time the ATF allowed guns to walk.

So all the brainwashed parrots can do is try to out and out lie about it.

Daily Caller Reporter Invents Congressional Testimony In Crusade Against Attorney General Holder

On conservative pundit Frank Gaffney's radio show yesterday, Daily Caller reporter Matthew Boyle falsified congressional testimony by Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz concerning Operation Fast and Furious. Boyle incorrectly claimed that Horowitz testified that it was "unfathomable" that Attorney General Eric Holder was unaware of controversial tactics employed during the failed gun trafficking sting.


In actuality, when Horowitz was asked, "Did you find any evidence that Attorney General Holder approved of the gun walking tactics that are under investigation -- that have been under investigation by this committee?" during a September 20 House Oversight Committee hearing, he responded, "We found no evidence that the attorney general was aware in 2010, before Senator Grassley's letter, of Operation Fast and Furious and the tactics associated with it." [C-SPAN via Nexis, 9/20/12]



But in an interview, Boyle distorted this testimony. He indicated that Horowitz stated before Congress that Holder was aware of the tactics used in Fast and Furious. From Boyle's interview:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/10...nal-tes/190410

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

so again show any and all imperical evidence that this was an obama policy

[ridgerunner]

and on this one stumbler did the real work and proved that the program was in fact begun under the bush administration and is only being blamed on obama becase the renamed it after the movie came out

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

and on this one stumbler did the real work and proved that the program was in fact begun under the bush administration and is only being blamed on obama becase the renamed it after the movie came out

Oh now it's the "Bush's fault" excuse?

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

and on this one stumbler did the real work and proved that the program was in fact begun under the bush administration and is only being blamed on obama becase the renamed it after the movie came out

A, no it wasn't.....

[ridgerunner]

ok nature boy time to read up on the topic

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...s-answers.html
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ious-fall.html
http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2...-answered?lite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichelle-malkin
http://www.lagunajournal.com/atf_ope..._gunrunner.htm

obama was inaugurated on jan. 20, 2009
so the numbers dont add up

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

ok nature boy time to read up on the topic

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...s-answers.html
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ious-fall.html
http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2...-answered?lite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichelle-malkin
http://www.lagunajournal.com/atf_ope..._gunrunner.htm

obama was inaugurated on jan. 20, 2009
so the numbers dont add up

Sep 21, 2012 11:39am


President Obama Falsely Claims Fast and Furious Program “Begun Under the Previous Administration”


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Paul Sakuma/AP Photo

Asked about the Fast and Furious program at the Univision forum on Thursday, President Obama falsely claimed that the program began under President George W. Bush.
“I think it’s important for us to understand that the Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration,” the president said. “When Eric Holder found out about it, he discontinued it. We assigned a inspector general to do a thorough report that was just issued, confirming that in fact Eric Holder did not know about this, that he took prompt action and the people who did initiate this were held accountable.”
Get more pure politics at ABCNews.com/Politics and a lighter take on the news at OTUSNews.com
In actuality, the Fast and Furious program was started in October 2009, nine months into the Obama presidency.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...dministration/

[ridgerunner]

you might want to read the articles i posted because they do show that "fast and furious" was in 209 but they also show that "gunrunner" was started under bush

and then theres the whole iran-contra affair with reagan, then the whole sandinistas deal
i have letters from the US government to mexican officials acknowledging the request for firearms to be sent to mexico only 3 months prior to the mexican american war
every president has done it
and every president will continue to do it

you have not yet made a single point because i can find articles that put the whole thing on clinton if i look in the right place
but knowing that the overall program was began in or before 2005 and was simply renamed shows that you are just looking for the witch in salem