Climate Change: Public Skeptical, Scientists Sure

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by McDick

The mistake the global warmer's made was to propose the "cap & tax" scheme. When they did that the Democrats immediately latched onto the idea and the Republicans opposed it. From there it degenerated into just another political issue with politicians advocating it.

They then began to lose middle America who saw it as a poorly disguised effort to send more tax dollars to Washington D.C.. As if sending more tax dollars to D.C. would somehow help cool the planet off.

Cap and Trade is an artificial way of making being green more economical. The European Union also is actively involved in cap and trade.

Back onto the topic of the facts of climate change which won't go away with Rush Limbaugh's breath.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

I admit that the climate (weather) changes. It got to almost 100 F today. Last winter there were days where it got down to -10 F. Now I realize that today's weather and climate are not the same thing. But the climate gets warmer for a few years than it gets cooler for a few years. When I was in high school in the 70's we were being warned of an upcoming ice age. I must not have been paying attention when that happened. Did someone decide that we were getting bored so they changed the story?

Near the end of my high school career something was installed on cars that was supposed to stop smog, the catalytic converter. Now the tell us that the gas the converter exhausts, carbon dioxide, is causing global warming.

I have a crazy idea...if half of us remove our catalytic converters we can stop climate change. Hmm...that idea doesn't sound as crazy as some that I have heard.

Climate science has come a long way since the 1970s when we were in high school. C.atalytic Converters eliminate more poisonous gases like CO and NOx by converting them to CO2. Why not dump the fossil fuel and eliminate all those emissions?

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Good morning Whitey, still fighting the good fight I see. Think your making any progress along that front?

From the BBC

No. Rush Limbaugh tried to tell everyone that the midwest wasn't having a heat wave. He gets paid too much money for twisting facts around and being wrong most of the time.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by UKlad

Wether the climate is changing or not we still need to develope cost efficent renewable energy technology.

Some peple are doing just that. But, the rest of the people would rather remain dependent on fossil fuels.

[Krieg]

I'm not going to argue this topic anymore, it's has been flogged so flat even a dead horse would cringe in empathy.

If you had told me 30 years ago that:

-Water would be bottled and sold
-You could get skin cancer from too much exposure to the sun
-There was a hole in the ozone above the arctic
-The Ice pack would be melting exceedingly fast
-Myriad other environmental issues..

I would have laughed and said you were wearing a tinfoil hat. Then quenched my thirst with a drink from the garden hose before hopping on my bike, without a helmet, to go play somewhere out in the sun, until the street lights came on.

So I do my bit for the environment, and wait to see what the next 30 years brings us and what does and does not come to fruition.

See if your kids and grandkids give you shit for what you chose to ignore.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

Global warming is a very real issue. The problem lies on both of the political sides.

Many right wingers deny the existance of global warming because they are being ill informed by big conservative media corporations, and many liberals think they are saving the world with their hybrid cars and smug attitudes and don't realise the damage they themselves are causing.

For instance owning a family dog is more damaging to the environment than owning a hummer. This is based on the CO2 emissions just to supply the food for the dog. People don't realise the damage cattle farming does.

Hybrid cars so far do not do better miles per gallon than many small engined cars, let alone the damage from transporting the parts around the world, the mining of raw materials, including lithium for the batteries.

If you really want to buy a car that is saving the planet, buy second hand, as it is the production of the vehical that is the most damaging. If you want good gas mileage, that comes down to how you drive. You may not get the cheaper road tax, or saving the planet smug status, but you are doing better than some twat in a Prius.

Try and cut down on your electricity usage, but there is no need to put a wind farm in your garden.

Don't have more than 2 children, the future world resources cannot cope. (think how much damage owning a dog does, then compare it to something that lives 7 times as long, flies round the world on holidays, eats more food, and consumes more power.)

Get the kids you have now interested in science. They are the future, they will be the engineers that build the first nuclear fusion power plant. Providing safe, clean electricity from an almost unlimited fuel supply, with all the waste being short lived, and not dangerous.

Be smart.

Yes, many scientists are upset by the fighting politicians and would rather just concentrate on the science. But, the unfortunate reality is that we need to come up with policies that regulate CO2 output from the burning of fossil fuels, which is very political.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by McDick

It appears that the whole "global Warming" hysteria has peaked and is now on a decline. They'll have to come up with a better hoax next time.

It's not on any decline in the climate research areas.
It's impossible to make scientists believe in hoaxes.

[Whitey44]

NOAA data shows increases in extreme weather events for the past 4 decades, or so. This is consistent with global warming theory.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/ce...&indicator=cei

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

No. Rush Limbaugh tried to tell everyone that the midwest wasn't having a heat wave. He gets paid too much money for twisting facts around and being wrong most of the time.

? You got that from my link?

Or did I miss something?

[thikdik]

PMSNBC today noted that it would be a high of 101 degress today due to global warming. the previous high was back in 1924. you mean they had global way back then too?

[knoxvillainswife]

I can't say whether someone is right, or wrong, I've never been good in long winded debates...but I am going to throw my two cents outs there.
In the time I've been alive, only 29 years, the weather where I grew up has undergone severe changes. Cold snaps of -40 and more used to last part of december and on into february. Now, we might get a cold snap of barely a week. Chinooks start in february, and the snow is gone by march. MARCH. It always snowed by Oct 30. I never once remember going trick or treating without a costume over my snowsuit...and now I see children running around in t-shirts in the beginning of november, and sometimes it hasn't snowed by december.
We get more rainfall, along with thick heavy snow in the spring/early summer that is destroying our forests. When a tree takes 100 years to grow 24 feet tall, and it is destroyed in one freak storm...you realize something is happening, when all the land around you looks like it got smashed by a giant fist, and the new trees are barely 3 feet high.
We are getting so much rain our main road, that hasn't needed major repairs in over 50 years, has caved in, and slid down the mountains, causing all our goods to have to come by plane.
Our animals are dying, they can't live in an area with 10 feet of snow, or it isn't cold enough to kill the ticks that are infesting them, and thier fur is falling out, causing death from hypothermia and starvation, where the deer are walking in our yard and dying by the back door. We had to dredge our pond 2 years ago...it had 3 dead deer in it. The family across the highway had 15 that died in thier hayfield, unable to get out over the snow. We call it Deer yards when they gather and die like that.
The world is changing, I can see it just by opening my eyes. Can we really afford to bullshit?
Personally, I do everything I can. I want my children to be able to fish in the Peace river, and catch fish that are firm fleshed, and don't have maggots living in thier backs ...which is what I caught last year when it was hot.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by knoxvillainswife

I can't say whether someone is right, or wrong, I've never been good in long winded debates...but I am going to throw my two cents outs there.
In the time I've been alive, only 29 years, the weather where I grew up has undergone severe changes. Cold snaps of -40 and more used to last part of december and on into february. Now, we might get a cold snap of barely a week. Chinooks start in february, and the snow is gone by march. MARCH. It always snowed by Oct 30. I never once remember going trick or treating without a costume over my snowsuit...and now I see children running around in t-shirts in the beginning of november, and sometimes it hasn't snowed by december.
We get more rainfall, along with thick heavy snow in the spring/early summer that is destroying our forests. When a tree takes 100 years to grow 24 feet tall, and it is destroyed in one freak storm...you realize something is happening, when all the land around you looks like it got smashed by a giant fist, and the new trees are barely 3 feet high.
We are getting so much rain our main road, that hasn't needed major repairs in over 50 years, has caved in, and slid down the mountains, causing all our goods to have to come by plane.
Our animals are dying, they can't live in an area with 10 feet of snow, or it isn't cold enough to kill the ticks that are infesting them, and thier fur is falling out, causing death from hypothermia and starvation, where the deer are walking in our yard and dying by the back door. We had to dredge our pond 2 years ago...it had 3 dead deer in it. The family across the highway had 15 that died in thier hayfield, unable to get out over the snow. We call it Deer yards when they gather and die like that.
The world is changing, I can see it just by opening my eyes. Can we really afford to bullshit?
Personally, I do everything I can. I want my children to be able to fish in the Peace river, and catch fish that are firm fleshed, and don't have maggots living in thier backs ...which is what I caught last year when it was hot.

Just to let you know I not only read this but I've got a few years on you and for the first 30 years of my life I worked, played, and pretty much lived outdoors, in the weather everyday. And I could count on it.

And then things began to change in just the most gradual and slightest ways. But pretty soon it was sand dunes where there'd always been prarie before. And there wasn't any real winters anymore but there was freezing rain in February. And then even the wind hit me wrong. For my whole life I could count on what ever was moving to be coming from the west and going straight east. That was as sure as the sun coming up.

But I'd walk out my front door and instead the wind was hitting me from the south west to even south.

Ever since then there's been no predicting it.

But we haven't had any apples in the orchard on the Mountain for more than a decade. There's all kinds of theories but I'm pretty sure its the same reason we don't get many plumes, apples, or apricots down in town anymore. There are no bees. Not like there used to be.

That really bothers me more than any of the other predictions because that was not one of them. Nobody said no bees. But when I look at it I can see where things are drying up in the long run so much they can't make it where they used to so they just ain't there.

[justpassingthru]

As nice as the thought of being able to grow citrus fruit in Alberta within the next 25 years is , the trend is not a good one .

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

As nice as the thought of being able to grow citrus fruit in Alberta within the next 25 years is , the trend is not a good one .

Believe me you guys up there might be the God send. I don't think we've even contemplated what it would be like is we could no longer grow wheat in the bread basket of the US.

I think too many people miss that connection.

(Not to mention how much wheat is government subsidized in this land of no more taxes).

[ThunderedEchoes]

Zombies will RISE.

[Krieg]

Ah, I have bee's, saw them in the spring.. 2 or 3.. but since then..nadda..


Here in MB the water, rain and floods have been steadily getting worse and worse, Polar Bears are slowly dying off due to having no Ice pack to travel and hunt on, the weather has gotten rather peculiar...

Some are trying to spin the thawing the NW passage aas a "good thing for the economy" meaning easier access to the oil and natural gas in the arctic.. all I'm seeing is a war with Russia over dwindling fuel supplies.

So this member of the public isn't skeptical.

I am sure more spin doctoring will say that humans have had nothing to do with climate change, that it's all cyclic, the majority of scientists NOT in the employ of Big Oil or corporations would disagree and offer hard facts.

Not going to debate it anymore..
The planet shall be sacrificed on the Alter of the All Mighty Economy and it shall be humanity that suffers. I take solace in the fact I won't be around to see it. Remember we need the earth more than the earth needs us. But we shall continue to shit where we eat/sleep as long as there is a big fat juicy pay cheque in the end.

Because, after all, it's the economy that's most important, right?

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by tenguy

? You got that from my link?

Or did I miss something?

I didn't get it from your link.

[Whitey44]

Here is a recent article from NOAA that revisits the effect of aerosols in the atmosphere from SO2, OCS, and DM. There is a cooling effect slowing some of the global warming. According to their study, we have only been getting about 70% of the CO2 global warming effect in the past 10 years due to the reflection of solar energy before it gets to the earth...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOAA study: Increase in particles high in Earth’s atmosphere has offset some recent climate warming

July 21, 2011

Light from a lidar instrument forms a beam in the sky over Boulder, Colo.. NOAA researchers and colleagues used lidar data to better understand recent changes in the amounts of tiny particles high in Earth's atmosphere.
Download here. (Credit: CIRES/NOAA)

A recent increase in the abundance of particles high in the atmosphere has offset about a third of the current climate warming influence of carbon dioxide (CO2) change during the past decade, according to a new study led by NOAA and published today in the online edition of Science.

In the stratosphere, miles above Earth’s surface, small, airborne particles reflect sunlight back into space, which leads to a cooling influence at the ground. These particles are also called “aerosols," and the new paper explores their recent climate effects -- the reasons behind their increase remain the subject of ongoing research.
“Since the year 2000, stratospheric aerosols have caused a slower rate of climate warming than we would have seen without them,” says John Daniel, a physicist at the NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL) in Boulder, Colo. and an author of the new study.
The new study focused on the most recent decade, when the amount of aerosol in the stratosphere has been in something of a “background” state, lacking sharp upward spikes from very large volcanic eruptions. The authors analyzed measurements from several independent sources – satellites and several types of ground instruments – and found a definitive increase in stratospheric aerosol since 2000.
“Stratospheric aerosol increased surprisingly rapidly in that time, almost doubling during the decade,” Daniel said. “The increase in aerosols since 2000 implies a cooling effect of about 0.1 watts per square meter – enough to offset some of the 0.28 watts per square meter warmingeffect from the carbon dioxide increase during that same period.”

Sources of aerosols reach the stratosphere from above and below, as shown in the graph. Sulfur dioxide (SO2), carbonyl sulfide (OCS), and dimethyl sulfide(DMS) are the dominant surface emissions which contribute to aerosol formation.
Download here. (Credit: NOAA)

The reasons for the 10-year increase in stratospheric aerosols are not fully understood and are the subject of ongoing research, says coauthor Ryan Neely, with the University of Colorado and the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES). Likely suspects are natural sources – smaller volcanic eruptions – and/or human activities, which could have emitted the sulfur-containing gases, such as sulfur dioxide, that react in the atmosphere to form reflective aerosol particles.
Daniel and colleagues with NOAA, CIRES, the University of Colorado, NASA, and the University of Paris used a climate model to explore how changes in the stratosphere’s aerosol content could affect global climate change – both in the last decade, and projected into the future. The team concluded that models miss an important cooling factor if they don’t account for the influence of stratospheric aerosol, or don’t include recent changes in stratospheric aerosol levels.
Moreover, future global temperatures will depend on stratospheric aerosol. The warming from greenhouse gases and aerosols calculated for the coming decade can vary by almost a factor of two — depending on whether aerosols continue to increase at the same rate as over the past decade, or if instead they decrease to very low levels, such as those experienced in 1960.
If stratospheric aerosol levels continue to increase, temperatures will not rise as quickly as they would otherwise, said Ellsworth Dutton, also with NOAA ESRL and a co-author on the paper. Conversely, if stratospheric aerosol levels decrease, temperatures would increase faster. Dutton and his colleagues use the term “persistently variable” to describe how the background levels of aerosol in Earth’s stratosphere can change from one decade to the next, even in the absence of major volcanic activity.

Lidar instruments - pointing up from the ground or down from satellites - use reflected light to measure the amounts of particles and their locations, which can influence climate.
Download here. (Credit: CIRES/NOAA)

Ultimately, by incorporating the ups and downs of stratospheric aerosols, climate models will be able to give not only better estimates of future climate change, but also better explanations of past climate changes.
“The ‘background’ stratospheric aerosols are more of a player than we thought,” said Daniel. “The last decade has shown us that it doesn’t take an extremely large volcanic eruption for these aerosols to be important to climate.”
Authors of the paper are: Susan Solomon, University of Colorado; John Daniel, Chemical Sciences Division of NOAA’s Earth System Research Laboratory; Ryan Neely, CIRES-University of Colorado and NOAA-ESRL; J.P. Vernier, NASA-Langley Research Center and University of Paris; Ellsworth Dutton, Global Monitoring Division of NOAA-ESRL; and Larry Thomason, NASA-Langley.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Believe me you guys up there might be the God send. I don't think we've even contemplated what it would be like is we could no longer grow wheat in the bread basket of the US.

I think too many people miss that connection.

(Not to mention how much wheat is government subsidized in this land of no more taxes).

Yeah, I can vouch for the brown wheat fields this year due to the limited snow in the winter and limited rain in the spring. The very high temperature recordss(100-110) in June and july this year are killing the other crops like corn. August is normally our hottest part of the summer and we're not even there yet. In the mean time, our airconditioners have been running around the clock. Lots of people depend on that here in the summer.
===============================================
Heat wave sweeps across the U.S.


Updated: July 21, 2011, 9:53 p.m. EDT
Don't let heat have you beat!

Tips for staying healthy and cool in summer

If you plan on being out and about in summer, chances are you'll be exposed to a lot of sun and higher temperatures. Read More »
(Credit Photo: MorgueFile.com)


Unhealthy levels of heat and humidity are encompassing much of the eastern half of the U.S., according to NOAA's National Weather Service, as a persistent heat wave continues its grip on the central U.S. while expanding into the East.
According to NOAA's National Weather Service, approximately 995,000 square miles and 150 million people in the United States are under a heat alert (Excessive Heat Warning or Watch or Heat Advisory) as of Wednesday morning.

Temperatures in the 90s to near 100 degrees will feel as hot as 115 degrees or higher when factoring in the high humidity. Record high temperatures are likely to be set in some locations — adding to the more than 1000 records that have been set or tied so far this month.

“This heat is dangerous on many levels,” said Jack Hayes, director of the National Weather Service. “Temperatures and humidity levels are high, the heat will be prolonged, and very warm temperatures overnight won’t provide any respite. All of these factors make this an unhealthy situation.”


Satellites 'seeing' humidity across the U.S.

Your browser does not support iframes. Please &lta href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEdP_44E-Ss" title="Satellites 'seeing' humidity across the U.S."&gtclick here&lt/a&gt to see the video.

High humidity along with hot temperatures is making this week's heat wave in the central and eastern U.S. especially unhealthy. The dew point temperature is a measure of how much moisture is in the air. This animation shows average daily dew point data from the North American Model (NAM) model from July 18 through July 24, 2011.


Heat wave sweeps across the U.S.

Your browser does not support iframes. Please &lta href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/16kMdnlEDAw" title="Heat Wave Sweeps Across the U.S."&gtclick here&lt/a&gt to see the video.

A shroud of high pressure has taken a foot-hold over the U.S. from the Plains to the Northeast, and with it has brought temperatures well into the 90's and 100's for half of the country. This animation shows the predicted daily high temperatures from NOAA's high resolution North American Model (NAM) from July 13-21, 2011.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by Krieg

.Because, after all, it's the economy that's most important, right?

Not according to former EPA director Rucklehaus that wrote a classic paper called "Toward a Sustainable World". He place importance on economics as well as sustainabilty of the environment in his article.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

I didn't get it from your link.

Perhaps Limbaugh will believe that there is a serious heat wave going on if it reached NY city?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

I didn't get it from your link.

Okay, then why did you quote me? I never cited the "fat man", nor did I say that there wasn't a heat wave.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Okay, then why did you quote me? I never cited the "fat man", nor did I say that there wasn't a heat wave.

I didn't know what you were saying in the first place. Never mind.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

I didn't know what you were saying in the first place. Never mind.

Well that explains it.

[justpassingthru]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Believe me you guys up there might be the God send. I don't think we've even contemplated what it would be like is we could no longer grow wheat in the bread basket of the US.

I think too many people miss that connection.

(Not to mention how much wheat is government subsidized in this land of no more taxes).

God send maybe so , but at what expense ........... having you guy's down there lose everything ?

[Krieg]

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

God send maybe so , but at what expense ........... having you guy's down there lose everything ?

You are forgetting the massive floods across Sask as well.. many farmers missed their planting season and are going to have to call in Insurance.
So, we have our own agricultural worries to concern us.

[justpassingthru]

Originally Posted by Krieg

You are forgetting the massive floods across Sask as well.. many farmers missed their planting season and are going to have to call in Insurance.
So, we have our own agricultural worries to concern us.

Agreed .

The trend though does show that the lower US is starting to heat up and lose valuable land rapidly . Do you think Krieg , that the plight of the Sask farmers being flooded out is part of this trend or just a freak storm ?

Not all farmers could afford insurance unfortunately I'm sure .

[Krieg]

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

Agreed .

The trend though does show that the lower US is starting to heat up and lose valuable land rapidly . Do you think Krieg , that the plight of the Sask farmers being flooded out is part of this trend or just a freak storm ?

Not all farmers could afford insurance unfortunately I'm sure .

We'll find out next year.

[justpassingthru]

I have family in Kindersley so I feel for the people in that area .

[Krieg]

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

I have family in Kindersley so I feel for the people in that area .

Small world I used to live in Kindersley back in the 80's. Went to KCS "home of the Kobra's

[justpassingthru]

Originally Posted by Krieg

Small world I used to live in Kindersley back in the 80's. Went to KCS "home of the Kobra's

Go Kobra's , lol . I have only been there once for her wedding but thought it was a nice quiet town to be in .

They have 6 sections of land there (don't know how much that is though) and climate is a major concern for them .

Luckily they supplement their income with mineral rights from screw jacks and batteries on their land .

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

Yeah, I can vouch for the brown wheat fields this year due to the limited snow in the winter and limited rain in the spring. The very high temperature recordss(100-110) in June and july this year are killing the other crops like corn. August is normally our hottest part of the summer and we're not even there yet. In the mean time, our airconditioners have been running around the clock. Lots of people depend on that here in the summer.
===============================================
Heat wave sweeps across the U.S.


Updated: July 21, 2011, 9:53 p.m. EDT
Don't let heat have you beat!

Tips for staying healthy and cool in summer

If you plan on being out and about in summer, chances are you'll be exposed to a lot of sun and higher temperatures. Read More »
(Credit Photo: MorgueFile.com)


Unhealthy levels of heat and humidity are encompassing much of the eastern half of the U.S., according to NOAA's National Weather Service, as a persistent heat wave continues its grip on the central U.S. while expanding into the East.
According to NOAA's National Weather Service, approximately 995,000 square miles and 150 million people in the United States are under a heat alert (Excessive Heat Warning or Watch or Heat Advisory) as of Wednesday morning.

Temperatures in the 90s to near 100 degrees will feel as hot as 115 degrees or higher when factoring in the high humidity. Record high temperatures are likely to be set in some locations — adding to the more than 1000 records that have been set or tied so far this month.

“This heat is dangerous on many levels,” said Jack Hayes, director of the National Weather Service. “Temperatures and humidity levels are high, the heat will be prolonged, and very warm temperatures overnight won’t provide any respite. All of these factors make this an unhealthy situation.”


Satellites 'seeing' humidity across the U.S.

Your browser does not support iframes. Please &lta href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEdP_44E-Ss" title="Satellites 'seeing' humidity across the U.S."&gtclick here&lt/a&gt to see the video.

High humidity along with hot temperatures is making this week's heat wave in the central and eastern U.S. especially unhealthy. The dew point temperature is a measure of how much moisture is in the air. This animation shows average daily dew point data from the North American Model (NAM) model from July 18 through July 24, 2011.


Heat wave sweeps across the U.S.

Your browser does not support iframes. Please &lta href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/16kMdnlEDAw" title="Heat Wave Sweeps Across the U.S."&gtclick here&lt/a&gt to see the video.

A shroud of high pressure has taken a foot-hold over the U.S. from the Plains to the Northeast, and with it has brought temperatures well into the 90's and 100's for half of the country. This animation shows the predicted daily high temperatures from NOAA's high resolution North American Model (NAM) from July 13-21, 2011.

And the heat wave continues. There are more heat warnings out today. And of course since the federal government cut energy subsidies for the poor and elderly I think its safe to assume the death role will rise today along with the heat.

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

God send maybe so , but at what expense ........... having you guy's down there lose everything ?

I sure hope we're not that stupid and I doubt that we are. There's still quite a few die hard global warming/Climate change deniers here in the US but they are really insignificant because not only the majority of US citizens but also US industry has accepted global warming/climate change and are going ahead with needed changes.

Because after all there's a lot of money it.

[justpassingthru]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I sure hope we're not that stupid and I doubt that we are. There's still quite a few die hard global warming/Climate change deniers here in the US but they are really insignificant because not only the majority of US citizens but also US industry has accepted global warming/climate change and are going ahead with needed changes.

Because after all there's a lot of money it.

Agreed .

I can rarely stay at my place in Dallas anymore because it's to fucking hot most of the time , but do see the diversification taking place when I am there .

Luckily Grapevine and Ray lakes aren't to far away .

[thinskin]

I guess one thing is absolutely sure. Doubters and scientists, conservatives and liberals, rich and poor, if we fuck up this ball of rock that we all share then we all suffer.

Thinskin

[justpassingthru]

Originally Posted by thinskin

I guess one thing is absolutely sure. Doubters and scientists, conservatives and liberals, rich and poor, if we fuck up this ball of rock that we all share then we all suffer.

Thinskin

The earth has been changing for millions of years (or thousands if you believe Sarah Palin , lol) and will still be here long after we are gone .

[Krieg]

Originally Posted by justpassingthru

The earth has been changing for millions of years (or thousands if you believe Sarah Palin , lol) and will still be here long after we are gone .

Yep, so really, concern for the climate is simply concern for the Human race to be able to live on it.

[runequester]

Originally Posted by easttexasbadboy32

bigtrobbing, liberals/progressives/socialists/communists can't leave us alone. Their ideology depends on spending other people's money...

Under socialism the state controls the economy and under communism there are no money. Your statement makes no sense. So I can only conclude you are either a victim of your educational system or scaremongering.

[Krieg]

Originally Posted by runequester

Under socialism the state controls the economy and under communism there are no money. Your statement makes no sense. So I can only conclude you are either a victim of your educational system or scaremongering.

+1

[stumbler]

Another thing that amazes me about the global warming/climate change deniers is while they have their heads buried in false propaganda these are actually really exciting times to be alive if you like science and scientific discovery.

Like the theory that actually global warming can lead to collection and then eruption of methane gas in our oceans.

And now scientists strongly suspect that one of those Methane Earth Burps could have been responsible for one of earth's mass extinction about 200 million years ago.

It makes a pretty interesting story at least.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_906308.html

[AZRIEL]

[tommyturtle]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Another thing that amazes me about the global warming/climate change deniers is while they have their heads buried in false propaganda these are actually really exciting times to be alive if you like science and scientific discovery.

Like the theory that actually global warming can lead to collection and then eruption of methane gas in our oceans.

And now scientists strongly suspect that one of those Methane Earth Burps could have been responsible for one of earth's mass extinction about 200 million years ago.

It makes a pretty interesting story at least.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_906308.html

“We have to remember that the world in the past was a very different. All the continents were still together, there were no glaciers. Ocean currents were probably very different.”

So the earth was actually warmer at some point in the past...before man was here to cause global warming? This just helps proves the earth has temperature cycles, not that man has anything to do with it.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

“We have to remember that the world in the past was a very different. All the continents were still together, there were no glaciers. Ocean currents were probably very different.”

So the earth was actually warmer at some point in the past...before man was here to cause global warming? This just helps proves the earth has temperature cycles, not that man has anything to do with it.

The fact that the Earth has experienced naturally-occuring temperature variations in the past does NOT prove that man is not responsible for this one. That's a logical lapse of the first order.

[tommyturtle]

But that article provided no proof that man has anything to do with this one.

[easttexasbadboy32]

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow...192334971.html

[knoxvillainswife]

Originally Posted by easttexasbadboy32

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow...192334971.html

That's interesting, but the problem is that something IS happening. If some of the heat is getting out, that's great, but why are we getting so hot? Why are we flooding in areas that have never flooded? Without a doubt, it's hotter then it was when my grandparents were children...on the other hand, it's not as hot as it was during the dark ages. (Which I don't want to look up the data, I've done it before, but it's what caused the black plague, the summers grew longer and the winters less harsh, meaning more rats lived).

[easttexasbadboy32]

Originally Posted by knoxvillainswife

That's interesting, but the problem is that something IS happening. If some of the heat is getting out, that's great, but why are we getting so hot? Why are we flooding in areas that have never flooded? Without a doubt, it's hotter then it was when my grandparents were children...on the other hand, it's not as hot as it was during the dark ages. (Which I don't want to look up the data, I've done it before, but it's what caused the black plague, the summers grew longer and the winters less harsh, meaning more rats lived).

This article is simply more proof that the 'global warming' religion is best taken with a grain of salt.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

But that article provided no proof that man has anything to do with this one.

So? Does every article on the subject have to provide proof of anthropogenic global warming? I'll leave aside, for the moment, the point that "proof" isn't the right word to use when we're speaking about the scientific method.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by easttexasbadboy32

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow...192334971.html

If you read the study itself, rather than the breathless Forbes article, with it's constant references to "alarmism", you come away with a very different headline.

[tommyturtle]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

So? Does every article on the subject have to provide proof of anthropogenic global warming? I'll leave aside, for the moment, the point that "proof" isn't the right word to use when we're speaking about the scientific method.

Would you prefer if I used the word "evidence"? The title of this thread is "Climate Change: Public Skeptical, Scientists Sure." The article in question did nothing to support either side of this debate other than to say that we have been hot in the past. I don't question that the climate changes. There were the dust bowl years in the 30's. In the 70's the scientists were sure we were headed for another ice age. Now we are warming up again. I don't think that a lot of record highs are being set this summer. I may not live long enough to know for sure but I might hazzard to guess that in another 30 years we could be debating another ice age again. Man may or may not have anything to do with it. We simply don't have thousands of years of recorded temperature information to do any more than speculate and terrify the public.

[knoxvillainswife]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

Man may or may not have anything to do with it. We simply don't have thousands of years of recorded temperature information to do any more than speculate and terrify the public.

Actually, we do, with Ice cores. We've been studying them for the last several years, coming up with the result of we are undergoing rapid extreme weather changes. This one is supposed to reach 100,000 years back.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0202114955.htm