The GOP's War On Voting

[BigTrobbing]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

The McCain-Palin campaign accuses ACORN, a community activist group that operates nationwide, of perpetrating "massive voter fraud." It says Obama has “long and deep” ties to the group. We find both claims to be exaggerated...

Neither ACORN nor its employees have been found guilty of, or even charged with, casting fraudulent votes. What a McCain-Palin Web ad calls "voter fraud" is actually voter registration fraud. Several ACORN canvassers have been found guilty of faking registration forms and others are being investigated. But the evidence that has surfaced so far shows they faked forms to get paid for work they didn’t do, not to stuff ballot boxes...

ACORN itself has not been officially charged with any fraud. Aside from the heated charges and counter-charges, no evidence has yet surfaced to show that the ACORN employees who submitted fraudulent registration forms intended to pave the way for illegal voting. Rather, they were trying to get paid by ACORN for doing no work. Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the largest ACORN case to date was prosecuted, said that the indicted ACORN employees were shirking responsibility, not plotting election fraud...

Election fraud does exist, but hasn’t been shown to be widespread. The New York Times reported in 2007 that a five-year crackdown on such fraud by the Bush administration’s Justice Department had produced 70 convictions at the federal level, including 40 campaign workers or government workers convicted of vote-buying, intimidation or ballot forgery, and 23 cases of multiple voting or voting by ineligible voters. But the Times described these as unconnected incidents and said the Justice Department had turned up no evidence of "any organized effort to skew federal elections."

http://factcheck.org/2008/10/acorn-accusations/

Since the democrats are so fond of not wanting any fraud why then do they fight to not have the voter rolls purged of people that can no longer vote are ineligible or moved to have them taken off the rolls?? Why?? Or is this just a phony argument??

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=Kimiko;4380353]

Don't be an idiot, tenguy. I said it was "legal" in the narrowest sense of the word, because Republicans had passed legislation to do it. That doesn't mean the laws they pass are constitutional, and it doesn't mean they are right. Is it your position that it should be difficult to vote in this country?

Who is the idiot here? I asked a question, you responded that it was not illegal. Now you want to propose that the laws that have been passed are unconstitutional, even though recent court tests have upheld them.

Why is submitting proof of eligibility making it so difficult?
You are grasping at straws.

Why is it wrong to register voters? What tactics do you consider "highly suspect"? How many cases have been prosecuted?

I have just as much right to question the tactics of voting registration drives as you have in questioning the requirements of submitting proof of eligibility.

I question the motives of those doing the "vetting". The proper "vetting" of voters is done at the local level, and they have plenty of tools to ensure that it is done properly. That's not what this is about, and you know that perfectly well.

Why do you question motives? What evidence have you seen that gives rise to impropriety? Why should I know that perfectly well? When they are tested your side cries foul, why?

When a significant percentage of the voting public doesn't have a driver's license and don't drive, and when DMV offices are open one day a month, and you want to force people to go there and get a photo idea, yes, I have a problem with that. County elections offices already have perfectly legitimate methods for verifying eligibility to vote. Please stop pretending that that's what is going on here.

When you go to a bar or store to buy alcohol, you are required to provide proof of age, in the form of a picture ID. When you open an account at the local bank, you are required to provide proof of your identity, usually a picture ID. When you apply for a job with any government agency, you are required to provide proof of identity and residency, usually a picture ID. If you travel by air, you are required to provide proof of identity, usually a picture ID or passport.

Every state in the union has provisions for providing individuals with picture ID's other than a drivers license, it is not particularly difficult to get one.

To me, the protest over this requirement is much to do about nothing, voting is a right of every US citizen who has not disqualified themselves by felony conviction. It is a sacred right, not to be taken lightly or abused by casual eligibility rules.

One illegal vote has the potential of nullifying one legal vote, that is plain out wrong. For you to object to simple to obtain, commonly available eligibility documents bring your motives into question.

The vast majority of the potential voters already possess such documents, why don't you have a drive to help those who do not possess one to get one? Complying with our laws, is one of the first obligations of a citizen.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Who is the idiot here? I asked a question, you responded that it was not illegal. Now you want to propose that the laws that have been passed are unconstitutional, even though recent court tests have upheld them.

Why is submitting proof of eligibility making it so difficult?
You are grasping at straws.


I have just as much right to question the tactics of voting registration drives as you have in questioning the requirements of submitting proof of eligibility.




Why do you question motives? What evidence have you seen that gives rise to impropriety? Why should I know that perfectly well? When they are tested your side cries foul, why?


When you go to a bar or store to buy alcohol, you are required to provide proof of age, in the form of a picture ID. When you open an account at the local bank, you are required to provide proof of your identity, usually a picture ID. When you apply for a job with any government agency, you are required to provide proof of identity and residency, usually a picture ID. If you travel by air, you are required to provide proof of identity, usually a picture ID or passport.

Every state in the union has provisions for providing individuals with picture ID's other than a drivers license, it is not particularly difficult to get one.

To me, the protest over this requirement is much to do about nothing, voting is a right of every US citizen who has not disqualified themselves by felony conviction. It is a sacred right, not to be taken lightly or abused by casual eligibility rules.

One illegal vote has the potential of nullifying one legal vote, that is plain out wrong. For you to object to simple to obtain, commonly available eligibility documents bring your motives into question.

The vast majority of the potential voters already possess such documents, why don't you have a drive to help those who do not possess one to get one? Complying with our laws, is one of the first obligations of a citizen.

This is when you show your true colors, tenguy.

[richief]

Why do the citizens of the "land of the free" need photo ID, surely the ideal freedom is anonymity.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

This is when you show your true colors, tenguy.

What are my "true colors" Kimi?

Are they somehow stained because I respect the laws of the US? Are they stained because I disagree with your overly permissive ideals? Are they somehow faded because I think that people should be responsible when the participate in their chosen activities? Do you think that I am somehow unAmerican for thinking that others should fight for equality in all aspects of our society, not just the ones that you chose?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by richief

Why do the citizens of the "land of the free" need photo ID, surely the ideal freedom is anonymity.

The picture ID is a requirement in every country on the planet, for one reason or another.

So are you saying that there are no truly free countries?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by RandyKnight

This one gets me...



Republicans did not much like what happened to them in 2008

Texas is one of just thirteen states that have a straight party vote option on their ballots. They seem to getting in sync with the majority of the country with this proposed legislation.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

What are my "true colors" Kimi?

Are they somehow stained because I respect the laws of the US? Are they stained because I disagree with your overly permissive ideals? Are they somehow faded because I think that people should be responsible when the participate in their chosen activities? Do you think that I am somehow unAmerican for thinking that others should fight for equality in all aspects of our society, not just the ones that you chose?

Spin it any way you like. The fact remains: the people you're defending are trying very hard to keep people they don't like or who don't agree with them from voting, and they're not doing it because they believe in truth, justice and the American Way. The techniques of today (voter ID, purging of voter registration rolls, elimination of polling places, voter disinformation and intimidation) are not that much different from the techniques of old...the poll tax, the literacy test. Defend it if you want, but it tells me all I need to know about YOUR motivation.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Spin it any way you like. The fact remains: the people you're defending are trying very hard to keep people they don't like or who don't agree with them from voting, and they're not doing it because they believe in truth, justice and the American Way. The techniques of today (voter ID, purging of voter registration rolls, elimination of polling places, voter disinformation and intimidation) are not that much different from the techniques of old...the poll tax, the literacy test. Defend it if you want, but it tells me all I need to know about YOUR motivation.

You had already unjustifiably formed that opinion long before our recent dialog.

Again, I ask you, is it wrong to require that a voter provides proof of his/her eligibility?

[ericblue]

Originally Posted by tenguy

You have posted absolutely no evidence of illegal activity, only innuendo and suspicion of it.

Now be a good boy and post actual examples of evidence.

That IS evidence. It's painful to watch someone wilfully fool himself like this. Conspiracy to subvert justice, using the Department of Justice for partisan political purposes, and any prosecutor worth his salt could prove this one in a heartbeat, when eight of their own were let go at once, all 8 of whom could testify they were being pressured to pursue prosecutions that the facts didn't warrant, and furthermore, in many or all cases, I remember for sure a female USAttorney in California, had recently been given sterling reviews by superiors who now were saying her firing was performance-related.

ANY prosecutor could have convicted and jailed Alberto Gonzalez, probably gotten Bush impeached. NOTHING done during Watergate was half this blatant. But we've got a consolidated, timid media and craven politicians. And some people too partisan to follow the facts in front of their noses.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by ericblue

That IS evidence. It's painful to watch someone wilfully fool himself like this. Conspiracy to subvert justice, using the Department of Justice for partisan political purposes, and any prosecutor worth his salt could prove this one in a heartbeat, when eight of their own were let go at once, all 8 of whom could testify they were being pressured to pursue prosecutions that the facts didn't warrant, and furthermore, in many or all cases, I remember for sure a female USAttorney in California, had recently been given sterling reviews by superiors who now were saying her firing was performance-related.

ANY prosecutor could have convicted and jailed Alberto Gonzalez, probably gotten Bush impeached. NOTHING done during Watergate was half this blatant. But we've got a consolidated, timid media and craven politicians. And some people too partisan to follow the facts in front of their noses.

That is not evidence, it is a political reality, no administration does differently, attorneys serve at the discretion of the President, period.

You think it is evidence however it is not, you are simply reacting indignantly to what is repulsive to you, yet completely legal.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

You had already unjustifiably formed that opinion long before our recent dialog.

Again, I ask you, is it wrong to require that a voter provides proof of his/her eligibility?

That is already a requirement. That's why we have voter registration. The question is, is it wrong to make the process of voting as difficult and as complicated as possible?

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Whitey44

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...oting-20110830


The GOP War on Voting

In a campaign supported by the Koch brothers, Republicans are working to prevent millions of Democrats from voting next year

by: Ari Berman

A voter casts his ballot during the primary elections in Virginia
Matt McClain/For The Washington Post via Getty Images

As the nation gears up for the 2012 presidential election, Republican officials have launched an unprecedented, centrally coordinated campaign to suppress the elements of the Democratic vote that elected Barack Obama in 2008. Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. "What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century," says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C.
Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. "I don't want everybody to vote," the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP's effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.
All told, a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.
Taken together, such measures could significantly dampen the Democratic turnout next year – perhaps enough to shift the outcome in favor of the GOP. "One of the most pervasive political movements going on outside Washington today is the disciplined, passionate, determined effort of Republican governors and legislators to keep most of you from voting next time," Bill Clinton told a group of student activists in July. "Why is all of this going on? This is not rocket science. They are trying to make the 2012 electorate look more like the 2010 electorate than the 2008 electorate" – a reference to the dominance of the Tea Party last year, compared to the millions of students and minorities who turned out for Obama. "There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today."
To hear Republicans tell it, they are waging a virtuous campaign to crack down on rampant voter fraud – a curious position for a party that managed to seize control of the White House in 2000 despite having lost the popular vote. After taking power, the Bush administration declared war on voter fraud, making it a "top priority" for federal prosecutors. In 2006, the Justice Department fired two U.S. attorneys who refused to pursue trumped-up cases of voter fraud in New Mexico and Washington, and Karl Rove called illegal voting "an enormous and growing problem." In parts of America, he told the Republican National Lawyers Association, "we are beginning to look like we have elections like those run in countries where the guys in charge are colonels in mirrored sunglasses." According to the GOP, community organizers like ACORN were actively recruiting armies of fake voters to misrepresent themselves at the polls and cast illegal ballots for the Democrats.
Even at the time, there was no evidence to back up such outlandish claims. A major probe by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007 failed to prosecute a single person for going to the polls and impersonating an eligible voter, which the anti-fraud laws are supposedly designed to stop. Out of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud – and many of the cases involved immigrants and former felons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility. A much-hyped investigation in Wisconsin, meanwhile, led to the prosecution of only .0007 percent of the local electorate for alleged voter fraud. "Our democracy is under siege from an enemy so small it could be hiding anywhere," joked Stephen Colbert. A 2007 report by the Brennan Center for Justice, a leading advocate for voting rights at the New York University School of Law, quantified the problem in stark terms. "It is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning," the report calculated, "than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls."
GOP outcries over the phantom menace of voter fraud escalated after 2008, when Obama's candidacy attracted historic numbers of first-time voters. In the 29 states that record party affiliation, roughly two-thirds of new voters registered as Democrats in 2007 and 2008 – and Obama won nearly 70 percent of their votes. In Florida alone, Democrats added more than 600,000 new voters in the run-up to the 2008 election, and those who went to the polls favored Obama over John McCain by 19 points. "This latest flood of attacks on voting rights is a direct shot at the communities that came out in historic numbers for the first time in 2008 and put Obama over the top," says Tova Wang, an elections-reform expert at Demos, a progressive think tank.
No one has done more to stir up fears about the manufactured threat of voter fraud than Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a top adviser in the Bush Justice Department who has become a rising star in the GOP. "We need a Kris Kobach in every state," declared Michelle Malkin, the conservative pundit. This year, Kobach successfully fought for a law requiring every Kansan to show proof of citizenship in order to vote – even though the state prosecuted only one case of voter fraud in the past five years. The new restriction fused anti-immigrant hysteria with voter-fraud paranoia. "In Kansas, the illegal registration of alien voters has become pervasive," Kobach claimed, offering no substantiating evidence.
Kobach also asserted that dead people were casting ballots, singling out a deceased Kansan named Alfred K. Brewer as one such zombie voter. There was only one problem: Brewer was still very much alive. The Wichita Eagle found him working in his front yard. "I don't think this is heaven," Brewer told the paper. "Not when I'm raking leaves."

Kobach might be the gop's most outspoken crusader working to prevent citizens from voting, but he's far from the only one. "Voting rights are under attack in America," Rep. John Lewis, who was brutally beaten in Alabama while marching during the civil rights movement in the 1960s, observed during an impassioned speech on the House floor in July. "There's a deliberate and systematic attempt to prevent millions of elderly voters, young voters, students, minority and low-income voters from exercising their constitutional right to engage in the democratic process."
The Republican effort, coordinated and funded at the national level, has focused on disenfranchising voters in four key areas:
Barriers to Registration Since January, six states have introduced legislation to impose new restrictions on voter registration drives run by groups like Rock the Vote and the League of Women Voters. In May, the GOP-controlled legislature in Florida passed a law requiring anyone who signs up new voters to hand in registration forms to the state board of elections within 48 hours of collecting them, and to comply with a barrage of onerous, bureaucratic requirements. Those found to have submitted late forms would face a $1,000 fine, as well as possible felony prosecution.
As a result, the law threatens to turn civic-minded volunteers into inadvertent criminals. Denouncing the legislation as "good old-fashioned voter suppression," the League of Women Voters announced that it was ending its registration efforts in Florida, where it has been signing up new voters for the past 70 years. Rock the Vote, which helped 2.5 million voters to register in 2008, could soon follow suit. "We're hoping not to shut down," says Heather Smith, president of Rock the Vote, "but I can't say with any certainty that we'll be able to continue the work we're doing."
The registration law took effect one day after it passed, under an emergency statute designed for "an immediate danger to the public health, safety or welfare." In reality, though, there's no evidence that registering fake voters is a significant problem in the state. Over the past three years, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement has received just 31 cases of suspected voter fraud, resulting in only three arrests statewide. "No one could give me an example of all this fraud they speak about," said Mike Fasano, a Republican state senator who bucked his party and voted against the registration law. What's more, the law serves no useful purpose: Under the Help America Vote Act passed by Congress in 2002, all new voters must show identity before registering to vote.
Cuts to Early Voting After the recount debacle in Florida in 2000, allowing voters to cast their ballots early emerged as a popular bipartisan reform. Early voting not only meant shorter lines on Election Day, it has helped boost turnout in a number of states – the true measure of a successful democracy. "I think it's great," Jeb Bush said in 2004. "It's another reform we added that has helped provide access to the polls and provide a convenience. And we're going to have a high voter turnout here, and I think that's wonderful."
But Republican support for early voting vanished after Obama utilized it as a key part of his strategy in 2008. Nearly 30 percent of the electorate voted early that year, and they favored Obama over McCain by 10 points. The strategy proved especially effective in Florida, where blacks outnumbered whites by two to one among early voters, and in Ohio, where Obama received fewer votes than McCain on Election Day but ended up winning by 263,000 ballots, thanks to his advantage among early voters in urban areas like Cleveland and Columbus.
That may explain why both Florida and Ohio – which now have conservative Republican governors – have dramatically curtailed early voting for 2012. Next year, early voting will be cut from 14 to eight days in Florida and from 35 to 11 days in Ohio, with limited hours on weekends. In addition, both states banned voting on the Sunday before the election – a day when black churches historically mobilize their constituents. Once again, there appears to be nothing to justify the changes other than pure politics. "There is no evidence that any form of convenience voting has led to higher levels of fraud," reports the Early Voting Information Center at Reed College.
Photo IDs By far the biggest change in election rules for 2012 is the number of states requiring a government-issued photo ID, the most important tactic in the Republican war on voting. In April 2008, the Supreme Court upheld a photo-ID law in Indiana, even though state GOP officials couldn't provide a single instance of a voter committing the type of fraud the new ID law was supposed to stop. Emboldened by the ruling, Republicans launched a nationwide effort to implement similar barriers to voting in dozens of states.
The campaign was coordinated by the American Legislative Exchange Council, which provided GOP legislators with draft legislation based on Indiana's ID requirement. In five states that passed such laws in the past year – Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – the measures were sponsored by legislators who are members of ALEC. "We're seeing the same legislation being proposed state by state by state," says Smith of Rock the Vote. "And they're not being shy in any of these places about clearly and blatantly targeting specific demographic groups, including students."
In Texas, under "emergency" legislation passed by the GOP-dominated legislature and signed by Gov. Rick Perry, a concealed-weapon permit is considered an acceptable ID but a student ID is not. Republicans in Wisconsin, meanwhile, mandated that students can only vote if their IDs include a current address, birth date, signature and two-year expiration date – requirements that no college or university ID in the state currently meets. As a result, 242,000 students in Wisconsin may lack the documentation required to vote next year. "It's like creating a second class of citizens in terms of who gets to vote," says Analiese Eicher, a Dane County board supervisor.

The barriers erected in Texas and Wisconsin go beyond what the Supreme Court upheld in Indiana, where 99 percent of state voters possess the requisite IDs and can turn to full-time DMVs in every county to obtain the proper documentation. By contrast, roughly half of all black and Hispanic residents in Wisconsin do not have a driver's license, and the state staffs barely half as many DMVs as Indiana – a quarter of which are open less than one day a month. To make matters worse, Gov. Scott Walker tried to shut down 16 more DMVs – many of them located in Democratic-leaning areas. In one case, Walker planned to close a DMV in Fort Atkinson, a liberal stronghold, while opening a new office 30 minutes away in the conservative district of Watertown.
Although new ID laws have been approved in seven states, the battle over such barriers to voting has been far more widespread. Since January, Democratic governors in Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire and North Carolina have all vetoed ID laws. Voters in Mississippi and Missouri are slated to consider ballot initiatives requiring voter IDs, and legislation is currently pending in Pennsylvania.
One of the most restrictive laws requiring voter IDs was passed in South Carolina. To obtain the free state ID now required to vote, the 178,000 South Carolinians who currently lack one must pay for a passport or a birth certificate. "It's the stepsister of the poll tax," says Browne-Dianis of the Advancement Project. Under the new law, many elderly black residents – who were born at home in the segregated South and never had a birth certificate – must now go to family court to prove their identity. Given that obtaining fake birth certificates is one of the country's biggest sources of fraud, the new law may actually prompt some voters to illegally procure a birth certificate in order to legally vote – all in the name of combating voter fraud.
For those voters who manage to get a legitimate birth certificate, obtaining a voter ID from the DMV is likely to be hellishly time-consuming. A reporter for the Tri-State Defender in Memphis, Tennessee – another state now mandating voter IDs – recently waited for four hours on a sweltering July day just to see a DMV clerk. The paper found that the longest lines occur in urban precincts, a clear violation of the Voting Rights Act, which bars states from erecting hurdles to voting in minority jurisdictions.
Disenfranchising Ex-Felons The most sweeping tactic in the GOP campaign against voting is simply to make it illegal for certain voters to cast ballots in any election. As the Republican governor of Florida, Charlie Crist restored the voting rights of 154,000 former prisoners who had been convicted of nonviolent crimes. But in March, after only 30 minutes of public debate, Gov. Rick Scott overturned his predecessor's decision, instantly disenfranchising 97,491 ex-felons and prohibiting another 1.1 million prisoners from being allowed to vote after serving their time.
"Why should we disenfranchise people forever once they've paid their price?" Bill Clinton asked during his speech in July. "Because most of them in Florida were African-Americans and Hispanics and would tend to vote for Democrats – that's why."
A similar reversal by a Republican governor recently took place in Iowa, where Gov. Terry Branstad overturned his predecessor's decision to restore voting rights to 100,000 ex-felons. The move threatens to return Iowa to the recent past, when more than five percent of all residents were denied the right to vote – including a third of the state's black residents. In addition, Florida and Iowa join Kentucky and Virginia as the only states that require all former felons to apply for the right to vote after finishing their prison sentences.
In response to the GOP campaign, voting-rights advocates are scrambling to blunt the impact of the new barriers to voting. The ACLU and other groups are challenging the new laws in court, and congressional Democrats have asked the Justice Department to use its authority to block or modify any of the measures that discriminate against minority voters. "The Justice Department should be much more aggressive in areas covered by the Voting Rights Act," says Rep. Lewis.
But beyond waging battles at the state and federal level, voting-rights advocates must figure out how to reframe the broader debate. The real problem in American elections is not the myth of voter fraud, but how few people actually participate. Even in 2008, which saw the highest voter turnout in four decades, fewer than two-thirds of eligible voters went to the polls. And according to a study by MIT, 9 million voters were denied an opportunity to cast ballots that year because of problems with their voter registration (13 percent), long lines at the polls (11 percent), uncertainty about the location of their polling place (nine percent) or lack of proper ID (seven percent).
Come Election Day 2012, such problems will only be exacerbated by the flood of new laws implemented by Republicans. Instead of a single fiasco in Florida, experts warn, there could be chaos in a dozen states as voters find themselves barred from the polls. "Our democracy is supposed to be a government by, of and for the people," says Browne-Dianis. "It doesn't matter how much money you have, what race you are or where you live in the country – we all get to have the same amount of power by going into the voting booth on Election Day. But those who passed these laws believe that only some people should participate. The restrictions undermine democracy by cutting off the voices of the people."
This story is from the September 15, 2011 issue of Rolling Stone.

More leftist propaganda,,damn,,how they can come up with this horseshit,,, it's never ending.

[richief]

Originally Posted by tenguy

The picture ID is a requirement in every country on the planet, for one reason or another.

So are you saying that there are no truly free countries?

I have no need to carry any ID, there is no law in the UK that forces me to carry an ID card, I may choose to carry a driving licence but I do not have to, aint that just great.

[richief]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

More leftist propaganda,,damn,,how they can come up with this horseshit,,, it's never ending.

I am glad I do not live in the US of A, how can you choose between two political parties who appear to have no policies but are driven on by propaganda and hatred of the opposition.

[ericblue]

Originally Posted by tenguy

That is not evidence, it is a political reality, no administration does differently, attorneys serve at the discretion of the President, period.

You think it is evidence however it is not, you are simply reacting indignantly to what is repulsive to you, yet completely legal.

Ok, well, now it's just flat-out clear you don't know how to read. NO other administration has EVER fired so many of its OWN USA's at once -- you may be a babe in the woods when it comes to the law, but that doesn't change the facts, prosecutors and judges for time immemorial have been able to secure convictions based on clearly traced intent.

You don't know, or are pretending not to know, the most basic bedrock legal principles. It's 'completely legal' to put your own ideological people into those positions. But once they're sworn in, they're sworn to uphold and to the law of the land...with impartiality and nonpartisan integrity. The Bush DOJ broke that oath, can be proven to have broken that oath by the testimony of its own trusted conservative attorneys.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by richief

I am glad I do not live in the US of A, how can you choose between two political parties who appear to have no policies but are driven on by propaganda and hatred of the opposition.

The members,,(I should say most,),of our political system rarely have good policies, and when they dont have policies that work,,they resort to propaganda, hate speech and smearing...It's the way it is.....Hence, we have today what we have, due to just exactly that.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

By his own later account, Raymond Chafin, a political boss in Logan County, is asked by Kennedy backers what it would take to get him to switch his support from Humphrey to Kennedy. Chafin tells them “35,” meaning $3,500, but the Kennedy forces apparently misunderstand him. A few days before the election, Chafin is handed two sealed briefcases containing $35,000 in cash. When he calls the Kennedy campaign to report the mistake, he is told to keep the extra money, which by his own later admission, he spends bribing voters. Vote-buying allegations threaten to taint JFK’s victory in West Virginia, but nothing comes of a subsequent Justice Department investigation. Kennedy himself will joke about the expensive win, saying that his father, Joseph P. Kennedy, had complained that JFK was supposed to “rent the state, not buy it.”

Vivid story of vote buying in West Virginia in the 1960 Presidential election by JFK's campaign.

http://www.buyingofthepresident.org/...nedy_vs_nixon/

WOW you managed to come up with one example of one alleged case of bribery and alleged vote buying in the past 50 years.

I think you just proved there's no real need for these ALEC sponsored restrictive voter laws.

[stumbler]

Actually I don't think ALEC and their conservative/Republican/Tea Party mouth pieces are going to get away with it.

Sixteen Senators Ask DOJ To Investigate Potentially Illegal State Voter Disenfranchisement Laws

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...hisement-laws/

[Yeehaarider]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

No, it's suppression. There have been VERY few documented cases of voter fraud in the United States. Republicans aren't pursuing voter fraud because they believe in the integrity of the electoral system. They're pursuing it in order to make it difficult for people to vote and to prevent people from voting for their opponents. Republicans win when voter turnout is low.

Very few ?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25349

and from this link, the below:

Hmm. Did anything happen between 2006 and now that might suggest that conservative concerns about widespread voter fraud might not be “largely false” — or did I just hallucinate that whole ACORN controversy? The organization has only been investigated for voter fraud by over 20 states in the last two election cycles, and resulting in dozens of felony convictions all over the country. Just this morning, I noted that a former ACORN employee is organizing voter efforts through a related organization even though she goes to trial next month in Nevada for “26 felony counts of voter fraud and 13 of providing unlawful extra compensation to those registering voters.”

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2010/10/new-york-times-democratic-voter-fraud-s-crazy-talk#ixzz1X0Gqufww

Geez

And as far as identification required, you need identification to:

Cash a check
Drive a car
Enter many government buildings
Enter some corporate buildings (ExxonMobil, Halliburton, Shell, et.al.)

so, why not vote, after all, voting is our most sacred duty.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by Yeehaarider

Very few ?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25349

and from this link, the below:

Hmm. Did anything happen between 2006 and now that might suggest that conservative concerns about widespread voter fraud might not be “largely false” — or did I just hallucinate that whole ACORN controversy? The organization has only been investigated for voter fraud by over 20 states in the last two election cycles, and resulting in dozens of felony convictions all over the country. Just this morning, I noted that a former ACORN employee is organizing voter efforts through a related organization even though she goes to trial next month in Nevada for “26 felony counts of voter fraud and 13 of providing unlawful extra compensation to those registering voters.”

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2010/10/new-york-times-democratic-voter-fraud-s-crazy-talk#ixzz1X0Gqufww

Geez

And as far as identification required, you need identification to:

Cash a check
Drive a car
Enter many government buildings
Enter some corporate buildings (ExxonMobil, Halliburton, Shell, et.al.)

so, why not vote, after all, voting is our most sacred duty.

Utter hogwash. How many people, dead or alive, actually got registered to vote based on incorrect voter registration information, and how many of those actually voted?

If you know ANYTHING about voter registration, you know that it is not the job or the person filling out or taking the form to determine whether or not the information is correct? How would he or she do that? No...when you're doing voter registration, you fill out the form based on the information you're given. If it turns out to be incorrect, that isn't a crime. If the information on the form is incorrect, it's the job of the County elections office to reject it or otherwise follow up.

The entire ACORN controversy consisted of this sort of nonsense. Their only crime was to actively pursue voter registration, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. They were targeted by the Republican Party, which succeeded in unearthing a small number of minor infractions, which were then blown out of proportion, along with some carefully_edited entrapment, to put ACORN out of business.

All of this is dwarfed by Republican-led voter suppression tactics. They purge voter roles without telling anyone. They eliminate polling places in minority neighborhoods. They send out mailers with incorrect information about election dates and polling places. They harass voters waiting in line. And on, and on, and on.

[anotheruser1]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Utter hogwash. How many people, dead or alive, actually got registered to vote based on incorrect voter registration information, and how many of those actually voted?

If you know ANYTHING about voter registration, you know that it is not the job or the person filling out or taking the form to determine whether or not the information is correct? How would he or she do that? No...when you're doing voter registration, you fill out the form based on the information you're given. If it turns out to be incorrect, that isn't a crime. If the information on the form is incorrect, it's the job of the County elections office to reject it or otherwise follow up.

The entire ACORN controversy consisted of this sort of nonsense. Their only crime was to actively pursue voter registration, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. They were targeted by the Republican Party, which succeeded in unearthing a small number of minor infractions, which were then blown out of proportion, along with some carefully_edited entrapment, to put ACORN out of business.

All of this is dwarfed by Republican-led voter suppression tactics. They purge voter roles without telling anyone. They eliminate polling places in minority neighborhoods. They send out mailers with incorrect information about election dates and polling places. They harass voters waiting in line. And on, and on, and on.

acorn was a waste of my money.

[signatory12]

nothing really amazing about what the GOP is trying to do. hell, Perry thinks Senators should be elected by state legislatures, like it was in the 'old days'. anything to take the mechanisms of government out of ordinary people's hands.........

[Yeehaarider]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Utter hogwash. How many people, dead or alive, actually got registered to vote based on incorrect voter registration information, and how many of those actually voted?

If you know ANYTHING about voter registration, you know that it is not the job or the person filling out or taking the form to determine whether or not the information is correct? How would he or she do that? No...when you're doing voter registration, you fill out the form based on the information you're given. If it turns out to be incorrect, that isn't a crime. If the information on the form is incorrect, it's the job of the County elections office to reject it or otherwise follow up.

The entire ACORN controversy consisted of this sort of nonsense. Their only crime was to actively pursue voter registration, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. They were targeted by the Republican Party, which succeeded in unearthing a small number of minor infractions, which were then blown out of proportion, along with some carefully_edited entrapment, to put ACORN out of business.

All of this is dwarfed by Republican-led voter suppression tactics. They purge voter roles without telling anyone. They eliminate polling places in minority neighborhoods. They send out mailers with incorrect information about election dates and polling places. They harass voters waiting in line. And on, and on, and on.

A few minor infractions doesn't put an organization out of business. Widespread fraud will put an organization out of business.

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/30/...hio-an-update/

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...unty-oh-probe/

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/104093479.html

http://www.corruptician.com/2011/08/naacp-voter-fraud/

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/10/...-in-milwaukee/

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/war...eyre-democrats

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29349339.html

Geez kimi, you sound like the drunk driver telling the cop that he only had "two beers".

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

More leftist propaganda,,damn,,how they can come up with this horseshit,,, it's never ending.

It's true. Our newly elected secretary of state (Chris Kobach, the same guy that penned the Arizona illegal alien laws) first item in busiess after he got elected was to enact new voter fraud laws to "prevent illegal aliens from voting".

---------------------------------------------

Kris Kobach Talks About Voter Fraud In Kansas And His Plans If Elected Secretary Of State
October 18, 2010
by Rebecca Zepick
Candidate for Secretary of State, Republican Kris Kobach, stopped by the Sedgwick County Republican Headquarters recently to visit with volunteers in the final weeks before the general election.
Kobach is well known for his work at the Department of Justice under John Ashcroft, teaching immigration law at the University of Missouri in Kansas City and his recent work co-authoring the controversial immigration law in Arizona that critics say will lead to racial profiling.
Kobach says that if elected Secretary of State, his number one priority will be stopping voter fraud in Kansas.
“There is an increasing problem, not just in Kansas but all throughout the country, of aliens being illegally registered to vote in the state of Kansas,” said Kobach. “The numbers tell the story, right now we see the tip of the ice berg. But according to the Secretary of State office’s own reports, they’ve discovered 54 aliens illegally registered to vote in the state of Kansas.”
Kobach says that some non-citizens are being paid to register and vote and while no cases have yet been discovered in Kansas, he is worried it could become a problem for the state.
“Some organization will be trying to get a particular candidate in a very close state legislative race, Kobach says. “In worse cases they may even be offering money to these people to register and then vote for a particular person.”
Kobach’s Democratic opponent, current Secretary of State Chris Biggs, has been critical, saying that Kobach is politicizing the office that is responsible for fair elections and that Kobach is only using the top election office as a springboard to higher office. But Kobach says he’s committed to the Secretary of State’s office for the next few years.
“I would never say never but right now I’ve got a well defined problem, voter fraud in Kansas and improving civics education in Kansas, but most particularly voter fraud,” Kobach says. “This is a problem that can be solved relatively quickly if you have someone with the political will to do it. So four years from now, eight years from now, I think we’re going to have the problem solved.”
Kobach says if elected he will implement voting requirements for proof of citizenship and photo ID at the voting booth.
Kansans will decide the between Kris Kobach, Chris Biggs, Phillip Horatio Lucas (L) and Derek Langseth(RP) as the next Scretary of State at the ballot box on November 2nd.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Utter hogwash. How many people, dead or alive, actually got registered to vote based on incorrect voter registration information, and how many of those actually voted?

If you know ANYTHING about voter registration, you know that it is not the job or the person filling out or taking the form to determine whether or not the information is correct? How would he or she do that? No...when you're doing voter registration, you fill out the form based on the information you're given. If it turns out to be incorrect, that isn't a crime. If the information on the form is incorrect, it's the job of the County elections office to reject it or otherwise follow up.

The entire ACORN controversy consisted of this sort of nonsense. Their only crime was to actively pursue voter registration, which is perfectly legal and appropriate. They were targeted by the Republican Party, which succeeded in unearthing a small number of minor infractions, which were then blown out of proportion, along with some carefully_edited entrapment, to put ACORN out of business.

All of this is dwarfed by Republican-led voter suppression tactics. They purge voter roles without telling anyone. They eliminate polling places in minority neighborhoods. They send out mailers with incorrect information about election dates and polling places. They harass voters waiting in line. And on, and on, and on.

No the manipulators of the conservative/Republican/Tea Party did an excellent hit job on ACORN just like they are after Planned Parenthood right now. And I have to admit they really did a good job of exposing what was actually some pretty small crimes and corruption and blew it into a real public volcano and successfully crippled ACORN.

But I think they've also just resurrected ACORN or its replacement because people even like myself are willing to fight this concerted and pre meditated attempt to strip American citizens of the most fundamental right they have which is to vote. This is an outrage and I don't think is going to make it past the courts. But just the fact ALEC and the conservative/Republican/Tea Party tried to fuck with people's right to vote is enough for me to get on the fight about it.

Originally Posted by Yeehaarider

A few minor infractions doesn't put an organization out of business. Widespread fraud will put an organization out of business.

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/30/...hio-an-update/

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...unty-oh-probe/

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/104093479.html

http://www.corruptician.com/2011/08/naacp-voter-fraud/

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/10/...-in-milwaukee/

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/war...eyre-democrats

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29349339.html

Geez kimi, you sound like the drunk driver telling the cop that he only had "two beers".

"Wide spread fraud"?

ROFLCOPTERS

I'm pretty sure there's more than 100 million voters in this nation and you come up with maybe 10 cases of voter fraud?

You just proved there is no real need for all these punitive and restrictive voter registration and ID laws beyond any reasonable doubt.

[Yeehaarider]

Originally Posted by stumbler

No the manipulators of the conservative/Republican/Tea Party did an excellent hit job on ACORN just like they are after Planned Parenthood right now. And I have to admit they really did a good job of exposing what was actually some pretty small crimes and corruption and blew it into a real public volcano and successfully crippled ACORN.

But I think they've also just resurrected ACORN or its replacement because people even like myself are willing to fight this concerted and pre meditated attempt to strip American citizens of the most fundamental right they have which is to vote. This is an outrage and I don't think is going to make it past the courts. But just the fact ALEC and the conservative/Republican/Tea Party tried to fuck with people's right to vote is enough for me to get on the fight about it.



"Wide spread fraud"?

ROFLCOPTERS

I'm pretty sure there's more than 100 million voters in this nation and you come up with maybe 10 cases of voter fraud?

You just proved there is no real need for all these punitive and restrictive voter registration and ID laws beyond any reasonable doubt.

Clearly, you didn't read the links. Might be ten cases, but we're also talking about at least 100,000 fraudulent and thrown out votes.

Let's see, Florida-year 2000-how many votes decided the election ? I'm sure it was a lot less than 100,000 votes (you do know every vote counts).

And I'm just bringing up ACORN. I didn't even get into the 1960 election and the LBJ elections where entire cemetaries voted for him. And there's much more, much much more. I'm not saying that the GOP is as pure as the driven snow, but in election fraud, 94 cases out of 100 (don't forget Richard Daley) seem to involve democrats-a pattern has emerged.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by Yeehaarider

A few minor infractions doesn't put an organization out of business. Widespread fraud will put an organization out of business.

No, constant political pressure from the right put ACORN out of business. If there had been widespread fraud, the executives of ACORN would have been successfully prosecuted. They were not.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

No, constant political pressure from the right put ACORN out of business. If there had been widespread fraud, the executives of ACORN would have been successfully prosecuted. They were not.

And they are not receiving tax payer funds anymore either.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

And they are not receiving tax payer funds anymore either.

Which is why they were vulnerable to a politically-motivated attack. And that's all it was.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Which is why they were vulnerable to a politically-motivated attack. And that's all it was.

That's too bad,, they should of held fund raisers to stay in business, and stayed away from the government subsidies.. Pure evidence of ''what the government giveth,, the government taketh''.

Ya know what I mean.??

[Yeehaarider]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

That's too bad,, they should of held fund raisers to stay in business, and stayed away from the government subsidies.. Pure evidence of ''what the government giveth,, the government taketh''.

Ya know what I mean.??

Yeah kimi, had they been a legit organization, losing govt. cheese would've been no biggee. However, live by the sword, and don't be surprised when a sword is rammed up your ass.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

That's too bad,, they should of held fund raisers to stay in business, and stayed away from the government subsidies.. Pure evidence of ''what the government giveth,, the government taketh''.

Ya know what I mean.??

Tell it to Halliburton, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Exxon Mobil....

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by Yeehaarider

Yeah kimi, had they been a legit organization, losing govt. cheese would've been no biggee. However, live by the sword, and don't be surprised when a sword is rammed up your ass.

Between 1994 and 2009, ACORN received all of $53 million in federal funds. Big deal.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

That is already a requirement. That's why we have voter registration. The question is, is it wrong to make the process of voting as difficult and as complicated as possible?

How difficult and complicated is the requirement to show a valid picture ID establishing your identity?

[clarise]

Sheesh. I don't get it.

Democrats who are not citizens of the U.S. are Democrats illegally. Right? Why should some illegal Democrat get to vote? Should be a Democrat somewhere else. Vote Democrat in Honduras, or somewhere.

Sheesh.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Between 1994 and 2009, ACORN received all of $53 million in federal funds. Big deal.

Yeah, who among the liberals would think that $53 million is not chump change.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

No, constant political pressure from the right put ACORN out of business. If there had been widespread fraud, the executives of ACORN would have been successfully prosecuted. They were not.

I think ALEC has been far more corrupt and far more effective than ACORN ever was, but hardly anyone ever hears about them even the ones being manipulated by them.

But ACORN is going to be small consolation compared to the Middle Class/Unions they just bought.

I happen to agree with Jimmy Hoffa.

[clarise]

I still don't get it even more.

President Obama got elected with a 3% popular margin. There are estimated 30 million illegals in the country, most of whom vote Democrat.

There are 100 million voters (approximate). 30 million is nearly a third of the electorate.

Not all of the 30 million are of legal voting age (though I doubt they care, being illegal by definition, and being living frauds, to be here in the first place). So let's say only 10 million of them vote, and most of them vote Democrat, because Democrats give them Obama-money.

That means 10% of the electorate is here illegally and still barely helped Obama squeak by with a 3% popular vote.

Right?

So if President Obama really wanted to be proud of his big accomplishment (being president that is) and had an interest in legitimizing it, wouldn't he be all for making sure that only the citizens vote?

Because that way, six years from now, when Bill Ayers (of Weather Underground fame and ghostwriter of The Audacity of Hope) writes the great retrospective on Barack's White House years, he will be able to say that "We won the first election by hook or by crook, but that doesn't really matter, because on the reelection in 2012 we played it straight up."

Right?

And sure, alot of illegal Democrats would have to go home and vote somewhere else. But that's okay. They could all go down to Honduras and put up a minority candidate, and all vote for some stinking gringo who promises hope and change.

That way, when this country twenty years from now looks pretty much like Honduras does today, I'll be able to move down there and live, after the gringos have cleaned the place up.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I think ALEC has been far more corrupt and far more effective than ACORN ever was, but hardly anyone ever hears about them even the ones being manipulated by them.

But ACORN is going to be small consolation compared to the Middle Class/Unions they just bought.

I happen to agree with Jimmy Hoffa.

You're right. Never heard of them. Who the hell are they, and how the hell are they manipulating me?

Sheesh. More confused than ever.

[signatory12]

Originally Posted by Yeehaarider

A few minor infractions doesn't put an organization out of business. Widespread fraud will put an organization out of business.

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/30/...hio-an-update/

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...unty-oh-probe/

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/104093479.html

http://www.corruptician.com/2011/08/naacp-voter-fraud/

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/10/...-in-milwaukee/

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/war...eyre-democrats

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29349339.html

Geez kimi, you sound like the drunk driver telling the cop that he only had "two beers".

hey, you do realize that, of all your sources, only three aren't blogs. worse, one of them, the one that supplied the "Rotten ACORN" map, is what's known as an "astroturf" group because they're actually run by some other organization to "support" their agenda. here's the link to prove that:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...cies_Institute

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I think ALEC has been far more corrupt and far more effective than ACORN ever was, but hardly anyone ever hears about them even the ones being manipulated by them.

But ACORN is going to be small consolation compared to the Middle Class/Unions they just bought.

I happen to agree with Jimmy Hoffa.

How damn typical of you leftists,, claiming that an organization that is promoting and endorsing conservative ideas is more corrupt than an organization used to promote and endorse corrupt leftists ideas. When the proof comes to light, then you may have something to squawk about.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by clarise

You're right. Never heard of them. Who the hell are they, and how the hell are they manipulating me?

Sheesh. More confused than ever.

I'll help you out,, I have their site on my toolbar.

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

[clarise]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

I'll help you out,, I have their site on my toolbar.

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

Thanks.

Doesn't look like this ALEC outfit chauffeurs wetbacks to the polls and tells them which box to check. So I don't see how they pertain to the topic.

More confused than ever.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by clarise

Thanks.

Doesn't look like this ALEC outfit chauffeurs wetbacks to the polls and tells them which box to check. So I don't see how they pertain to the topic.

More confused than ever.

C'mon now,, you should know by now, ALEC is stumblers new pet peeve, and he has made it his new mission to compare ALEC with ALL OF the corrupt liberal based organizations.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by clarise

Thanks.

Doesn't look like this ALEC outfit chauffeurs wetbacks to the polls and tells them which box to check. So I don't see how they pertain to the topic.

More confused than ever.

Stumbles stumbled upon an article on ALEC in one of the liberal blogs that he reads. Typically he reacts strangely and strongly to things that he doesn't understand, he is naive enough to think that what ALEC does, is not the normal way that the majority of legislation is written, at all government levels.

He mentions them in about every thread he posts on.

Wait until he finds out about the sinister Abbott Brothers.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

How difficult and complicated is the requirement to show a valid picture ID establishing your identity?

In the first place, it isn't that easy if you don't drive, and the nearest DMV office is open one day a week, 30 miles away. Secondly, it's not just a picture ID...it's proof of citizenship. I couldn't prove MY citizenship without a trip to the safe deposit box at my bank, and even then, tea-partiers wouldn't accept it, since it's a "Certificate of Live Birth".

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

In the first place, it isn't that easy if you don't drive, and the nearest DMV office is open one day a week, 30 miles away. Secondly, it's not just a picture ID...it's proof of citizenship. I couldn't prove MY citizenship without a trip to the safe deposit box at my bank, and even then, tea-partiers wouldn't accept it, since it's a "Certificate of Live Birth".

Quit searching for excuses,, get the picture ID, and call it a day.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Yeah, who among the liberals would think that $53 million is not chump change.

Over a period of 15 years? Give me a break. I once ran a non-profit organization with a bigger budget than that, whose activities were confined to Santa Cruz County.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

In the first place, it isn't that easy if you don't drive, and the nearest DMV office is open one day a week, 30 miles away. Secondly, it's not just a picture ID...it's proof of citizenship. I couldn't prove MY citizenship without a trip to the safe deposit box at my bank, and even then, tea-partiers wouldn't accept it, since it's a "Certificate of Live Birth".

Sorry Kimi, you are over reacting once again.

First the vast majority of the eligible voters in this country presently possess valid picture ID's which satisfy any voter laws on the books. What you are so obviously objecting to are those who can not obtain a picture ID because of their immigration status.

Second, the availability of photo ID's is as close as the nearest US Post Office. A valid passport is required for international travel, so if the person has traveled out of the US in the last 9 years, they would have needed it for reentry.

Third, every county in the US has licensing bureaus for the purpose of testing and qualifying drivers, as well as the issuance of picture ID's.

Fourth, if the requirements called for proof of citizenship, other than a state issued photo ID and if the persons birth certificate was not acceptable, who among us could actually vote?

So why doth thou protest so much?