The GOP's War On Voting

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Over a period of 15 years? Give me a break. I once ran a non-profit organization with a bigger budget than that, whose activities were confined to Santa Cruz County.

The budget for ACORN was far higher than $53,000,000, the federal contribution was less than 10%.

But, if you think that the amount is a mere pittance, perhaps you could float me a loan.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Sorry Kimi, you are over reacting once again.

First the vast majority of the eligible voters in this country presently possess valid picture ID's which satisfy any voter laws on the books. What you are so obviously objecting to are those who can not obtain a picture ID because of their immigration status.

Why would you assume that, since I said absolutely nothing about it?

Second, the availability of photo ID's is as close as the nearest US Post Office. A valid passport is required for international travel, so if the person has traveled out of the US in the last 9 years, they would have needed it for reentry.

You cannot get a photo idea at my local post office, nor can you at any rural post office I've ever been to. And do you know how much it costs to obtain a passport, tenguy? Or how long it takes for processing? And that you have to get a passport photo taken, which also costs?

Third, every county in the US has licensing bureaus for the purpose of testing and qualifying drivers, as well as the issuance of picture ID's.

That simply isn't true. There are many counties with no DMV office, and in many states, their hours of operation are severely limited.

Fourth, if the requirements called for proof of citizenship, other than a state issued photo ID and if the persons birth certificate was not acceptable, who among us could actually vote?l

The State of Arizona passed a law requiring proof of citizenship in order to vote. ALL states require that you be a citizen. Do you really have any doubt that other states run by Republicans are far behind Arizona?

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

The budget for ACORN was far higher than $53,000,000, the federal contribution was less than 10%.

My point exactly. Why all the hand-wringing about "my tax dollars"?

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

My point exactly. Why all the hand-wringing about "my tax dollars"?

They're mine too.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

They're mine too.

A lot of my tax dollars went to Exxon Mobil and Halliburton. I'll bet it was a lot more than $53 million over the last 15 years, too. I want it back.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

A lot of my tax dollars went to Exxon Mobil and Halliburton. I'll bet it was a lot more than $53 million over the last 15 years, too. I want it back.

I doubt you paid $53 million in taxes for the last 15 years. If those companies were doing something that was corrupt or illegal,,they paid some fines. As I'm sure that they did not go belly up and hide under another name out of pure shame.

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=Kimiko;4386458]

Why would you assume that, since I said absolutely nothing about it?

Your past history.

You cannot get a photo idea at my local post office, nor can you at any rural post office I've ever been to. And do you know how much it costs to obtain a passport, tenguy? Or how long it takes for processing? And that you have to get a passport photo taken, which also costs?

I was referring to the pass port as being a photo ID (not idea), it is but one of many photo ID's that are acceptable.

You can get a pass port application at most US post offices, but you are correct that not all are authorized to process them. However, since this citizenship document is only required if you travel outside the US it is a moot point to complain about on the cost or processing time.

That simply isn't true. There are many counties with no DMV office, and in many states, their hours of operation are severely limited.

There are few, if any, counties without DMV offices. In Tennessee, like many Southern states (you know the ones you are bitching about) every county is REQUIRED to have a DMV office. Plus in California, where the counties are bigger than some states, there are numerous DMV office in each county.

The State of Arizona passed a law requiring proof of citizenship in order to vote. ALL states require that you be a citizen. Do you really have any doubt that other states run by Republicans are far behind Arizona?

All states require proof of citizenship when voting or registering to vote, all states can challenger a persons application to register if the official thinks that the application is fraudulent.

Arizona's law is being tested in court right now, if the courts decide that the provisions are not discriminatory then the law will likely stand. If it is found to be constitutional, you have no reason to call it anything except what it is, a state exercising it's right to establish laws.

And I would expect that many other states would follow suit.

[ericblue]

Originally Posted by clarise

I still don't get it even more.

President Obama got elected with a 3% popular margin.

Skipping over your tired bullshit about illegals voting, Obama won by a 7.2% margin.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

I was referring to the pass port as being a photo ID (not idea), it is but one of many photo ID's that are acceptable.

You can get a pass port application at most US post offices, but you are correct that not all are authorized to process them. However, since this citizenship document is only required if you travel outside the US it is a moot point to complain about on the cost or processing time.

YOU brought up passports, as if it was easy for a poor person in rural America to get one. Just stroll down the post office, you said. And NOT for the purpose of traveling outside the US, but for purposes of VOTING! So don't you think it's relevant that it's costly and takes a great deal of time?


[quote]All states require proof of citizenship when voting or registering to vote, all states can challenger a persons application to register if the official thinks that the application is fraudulent.[quote]

Then why would you need a new law?

Arizona's law is being tested in court right now, if the courts decide that the provisions are not discriminatory then the law will likely stand. If it is found to be constitutional, you have no reason to call it anything except what it is, a state exercising it's right to establish laws.

And I would expect that many other states would follow suit.

I didn't say it was illegal or unconstitutional. I said it was designed to suppress voting. Try to keep up.

[Kimiko]

Oh, and tenguy...about those DMVs in every county? Let's see what else your hero, Gov. Walker, has in mind up there in Wisconsin.

http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/0...ocratic-areas/

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/07/...-voter-id-law/

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

you are simply reacting indignantly to what is repulsive to you, yet completely legal.

Legal and ethical are not synonymous.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Legal and ethical are not synonymous.

Thank you. I agree. It's legal for Scott Walker to close DMV offices in democratic areas. It's not ethical, though, and it makes clear what his agenda really is. As if that wasn't already abundantly clear.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

There are few, if any, counties without DMV offices.

Tennessee is not the entire United States.
There are plenty of rural counties that have DMV offices that are only open part time.

Having once spent 5 hours in a North Carolina DMV just to get a photo ID, I would hardly call that convenient.
The people I waited with told me that to get your Driver's license renewed, one needs to take a day off of work and get there when DMV opens and spend all day there just to get their license renewed.

You call that convenient?

[Kimiko]

Just for the heck of it, I looked up where you would have to go if you happened to live in Bridgeport, CA, which, by the way, is the county seat of Mono County. There is no DMV office in Mono County. The three closest DMV offices are in Bishop (90 miles) South Lake Tahoe (91 miles, some if closed in winter) and Mariposa (131 miles, some of it closed in winter). Nice and convenient.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Tenguy,
You ought to be able to at least admit that a requirement of photo ID to vote does not target those who are not US citizens anywhere nearly as much as it targets Black and Latino American citizens who live in urban areas and do not own a car or a driver's license.

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=Kimiko;4388441]

YOU brought up passports, as if it was easy for a poor person in rural America to get one. Just stroll down the post office, you said. And NOT for the purpose of traveling outside the US, but for purposes of VOTING! So don't you think it's relevant that it's costly and takes a great deal of time?

Please go back and look again, I said that a passport is A document that establishes ones citizenship, but one of several such documents.

[QUOTE][quote]All states require proof of citizenship when voting or registering to vote, all states can challenger a persons application to register if the official thinks that the application is fraudulent.

Then why would you need a new law?

Because some documents are not proof of citizenship, it looks like this law this law just clarifies what is needed.

I didn't say it was illegal or unconstitutional. I said it was designed to suppress voting. Try to keep up.

Suppressing illegal voting should be a priority, shouldn't it?

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Suppressing illegal voting should be a priority, shouldn't it?

I know how illegals love registering cars in Tennessee and travel miles to do so, but are y'all letting illegals vote too?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

No, constant political pressure from the right put ACORN out of business. If there had been widespread fraud, the executives of ACORN would have been successfully prosecuted. They were not.

And shall we compare the fraud ACORN allegedly committed as opposed to the billions and billions that can't even be accounted for in Iraq.

How about the $18 Trillion it took to bail out the private financial sector.

Originally Posted by Kimiko

In the first place, it isn't that easy if you don't drive, and the nearest DMV office is open one day a week, 30 miles away. Secondly, it's not just a picture ID...it's proof of citizenship. I couldn't prove MY citizenship without a trip to the safe deposit box at my bank, and even then, tea-partiers wouldn't accept it, since it's a "Certificate of Live Birth".

Its even worse out here. It might be a 50 or 100 mile drive where the DMV's are only open one day a week.

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Oh, and tenguy...about those DMVs in every county? Let's see what else your hero, Gov. Walker, has in mind up there in Wisconsin.

http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/0...ocratic-areas/

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/07/...-voter-id-law/

And don't forget the redistricting. Walker is also trying to carve them up for the advantages of the GOP.

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Thank you. I agree. It's legal for Scott Walker to close DMV offices in democratic areas. It's not ethical, though, and it makes clear what his agenda really is. As if that wasn't already abundantly clear.

And its not just Walker's agenda. This is actually the ALEC/Koch brothers agenda and is being pushed nationally with some startling success.

In fact here's ALEC's proposed Voter ID legislation which they are trying to keep as secret as possible which is indicated by the fact you have to be a member of ALEC (which is a pretty limited group) to view the proposed legislation on their website.

http://images2.americanprogress.org/...egislation.pdf

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Tenguy,
You ought to be able to at least admit that a requirement of photo ID to vote does not target those who are not US citizens anywhere nearly as much as it targets Black and Latino American citizens who live in urban areas and do not own a car or a driver's license.

It also targets another group that are going to be willing to vote against the conservative/Republican/Tea Party and that is the elderly. Many of them do not have photo ID's and for many of them it is an extreme hardship.

I also have to say this is just personally offensive to me because I remember the laws that kept black people from voting in the south. I remember the civil rights movement. And I remember the terrorists that killed and bombed innocent people just to try and keep black people from voting. I never thought I would see it again.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Tennessee is not the entire United States.
There are plenty of rural counties that have DMV offices that are only open part time.

Having once spent 5 hours in a North Carolina DMV just to get a photo ID, I would hardly call that convenient.
The people I waited with told me that to get your Driver's license renewed, one needs to take a day off of work and get there when DMV opens and spend all day there just to get their license renewed.

You call that convenient?

Why did you need a photo ID? And how many times did you need to get one? I spent 7 hours in an emergency room with my elderly sister, that wasn't convenient either, but it was necessary.

Convenience isn't really the question here, it is the excuse given for not getting one.

Voting is a responsibility of our citizens, making it open to anyone who walks in to vote is irresponsible and an infringement upon my right to expect my vote to count.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Tenguy,
You ought to be able to at least admit that a requirement of photo ID to vote does not target those who are not US citizens anywhere nearly as much as it targets Black and Latino American citizens who live in urban areas and do not own a car or a driver's license.

IMO it targets no one, it is a requirement that all must be able to meet.

To claim that a person is "inconvenienced" because of the requirement, is a cop out.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

I know how illegals love registering cars in Tennessee and travel miles to do so, but are y'all letting illegals vote too?

Registering a vehicle is not a magnet for illegals to come to Tennessee, it was obtaining a drivers license that was the draw.


However, Tennessee no longer issues licenses or photo ID's to non-citizens, so our flood of illegals coming to get licenses has totally stopped.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Why did you need a photo ID? And how many times did you need to get one?

Once, when I moved to NC.
I needed to get a photo ID so I could open a bank account and get a place to live. I could not use an out of state ID or driver's license to open a bank account.
I couldn't get an NC driver's license since I did not have an NC address, so I got an NC photo ID issued by DMV.
Catch-22 at its best.

Tenguy, I totally understand why Republicans want to do everything they can to prevent Blacks and Latinos from voting since it is very unlikely they will vote Republican.
It still doesn't mean that it is the ethical thing to do.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Once, when I moved to NC.
I needed to get a photo ID so I could open a bank account and get a place to live. I could not use an out of state ID or driver's license to open a bank account.
I couldn't get an NC driver's license since I did not have an NC address, so I got an NC photo ID issued by DMV.
Catch-22 at its best.

Tenguy, I totally understand why Republicans want to do everything they can to prevent Blacks and Latinos from voting since it is very unlikely they will vote Republican.
It still doesn't mean that it is the ethical thing to do.

Hmmm, that is a catch22, thankfully that didn't happen when I moved to Tennessee, bank accounts were easy to get with my Pennsylvania drivers license AND proof that I had a job in town.

Baddog, I totally understand why you want to enable non-citizens to vote, they would most certainly vote for those who coddle them.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Registering a vehicle is not a magnet for illegals to come to Tennessee, it was obtaining a drivers license that was the draw.


However, Tennessee no longer issues licenses or photo ID's to non-citizens, so our flood of illegals coming to get licenses has totally stopped.

My mistake.
So, the illegals were voting in Tennessee and that is why you worry about illegal votes?
Where is all of this illegal voting happening, Tenguy?
Is it just Tennessee or is it everywhere?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

My mistake.
So, the illegals were voting in Tennessee and that is why you worry about illegal votes?
Where is all of this illegal voting happening, Tenguy?
Is it just Tennessee or is it everywhere?

It was not a question of them voting in Tennessee, it was the fact that other states (mostly Northern) stopped accepting Tennessee drivers licenses as proof of citizenship, as did the federal government. In order to travel to Canada and Mexico (pre-9/11) I needed to get a passport or carry a certified copy of my birth certificate.

BTW, I don't really give a shit if only one illegal, ineligible or other non-citizen voted, I really give a shit about folks wanting to make it easy for them to do so.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Baddog, I totally understand why you want to enable non-citizens to vote, they would most certainly vote for those who coddle them.

I am not for coddling illegals.
After the stellar job Tennessee did handing out car registrations and driver's licenses to any illegal with money in his hand, you ought not to be running your mouth about coddling illegals.
You and your neighbors set the standards for that!

Of course, you are incapable of offering any examples of illegals voting in Tennessee or anywhere else in the US.
No surprise there.
Use the fear of "illegal votes" to find a way to keep people not likely to vote Republican from voting at all.

Tenguy, have you put any roses on Nathaniel Bedford Forrest's grave lately?

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=Baddog_WOOF;4388679]

I am not for coddling illegals.

Bullshit

After the stellar job Tennessee did handing out car registrations and driver's licenses to any illegal with money in his hand, you ought not to be running your mouth about coddling illegals.
You and your neighbors set the standards for that!

Do you have any idea why Tennessee issued the licenses? Or are you just running your mouth?

Of course, you are incapable of offering any examples of illegals voting in Tennessee or anywhere else in the US.
No surprise there.
Use the fear of "illegal votes" to find a way to keep people not likely to vote Republican from voting at all.

Kinda like calling someone opposed to your views a racist, right? However, it is not that I cannot find examples of illegal voting, it has been already established that the mere fact that citizenship has not always been checked, has allowed it to happen. Why don't you attempt to prove that it never has happened?

Tenguy, have you put any roses on Nathaniel Bedford Forrest's grave lately?

Nah, that would be the wrong thing for me to do, being a Yankee and all, I'm not about to honor a Confederate War hero. But I do admire his record as a field commander.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Oh, so I disagree with you, so that automatically means I am for coddling immigrants?
Talk about bullshit!

Tennessee enjoyed taking the money of illegals.
Is it that hard for you to figure out?

I must have missed the part where I called you a racist.
Wait, I didn't call you a racist.
Another mystery solved.

Sorry, you are asserting that illegal voting has happened and happened regularly, so the least you could do is offer proof.
If you actually had any proof, that is.

Don't sell yourself short, Tenguy!
When the Klan had its big resurgence in the 1920's, the headquarters of the Klan was located in Indiana and there were many Yankee Klan members all over the North.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

Oh, so I disagree with you, so that automatically means I am for coddling immigrants?
Talk about bullshit!

Tennessee enjoyed taking the money of illegals.
Is it that hard for you to figure out?

I must have missed the part where I called you a racist.
Wait, I didn't call you a racist.
Another mystery solved.

Sorry, you are asserting that illegal voting has happened and happened regularly, so the least you could do is offer proof.
If you actually had any proof, that is.

Don't sell yourself short, Tenguy!
When the Klan had its big resurgence in the 1920's, the headquarters of the Klan was located in Indiana and there were many Yankee Klan members all over the North.

At least tenguy finally came around to what he considers the real issue. My sense is that the Republican Party is okay with illegal aliens being in the country and working for crumbs -- as long as they don't vote or otherwise avail themselves of the rights of Americans.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by ericblue

Skipping over your tired bullshit about illegals voting, Obama won by a 7.2% margin.

Over McCain. Not total. But you are right that I am off. The actual is more like 6%. I stopped following it on the day after, and absentee ballots/recounts/shenanigans changed the numbers a great deal. Hell, there is no other way in heaven or hell to explain Senator Al Franken.

But, all hair-splitting aside... even if 7.2% were the right number... wouldn't you just be proving my point? Do you think illegals don't vote? Are you kidding me? Illegals vote early and often, dude. I know. On the morning of Election Day 2008, I drove through the center of Somerville, MA, one of the "safe harbor cities," and saw tens of thousands of them lined up for miles.

So take your tired bullshit and use it to snuff out what little is left of your brain, while your buddy Pablo refills your crack pipe. Sheesh.

(That wasn't very nice. Sorry. I will rephrase.)

So take your tired bullshit and use it to snuff out what little is left of your brain, while your girltoy Consuelo reheats your bong. Sheesh.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by clarise

Over McCain. Not total. But you are right that I am off. The actual is more like 6%. I stopped following it on the day after, and absentee ballots/recounts/shenanigans changed the numbers a great deal. Hell, there is no other way in heaven or hell to explain Senator Al Franken.

It's easy to explain Senator Al Franken. Coleman failed in his attempts to steal the election, and then succeeded in his attempts to delay the seating of Franken, until he finally ran out of options.

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=Baddog_WOOF;4388706]

Oh, so I disagree with you, so that automatically means I am for coddling immigrants?
Talk about bullshit!

Nah, that is not why I called bullshit. You have exhibited your fondness for illegals before.

Tennessee enjoyed taking the money of illegals.
Is it that hard for you to figure out?

Man you just love to step in shit don't you? The Tennessee law that allowed the illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses was introduced by State Senator Steve Cohen of Memphis, it was passed by a Democratic legislature and signed into law by a Democrat Governor, Ned Ray McWherter. The reason for the program was to subject the driver to the Tennessee financial liability rules and to improve highway safety by testing applicants on the rules of the road. After 9/11 the license was changed to a "Driving certificate, not to be used for identification". This was scrapped by a Republican legislature and a Democrat Governor, Phil Bredeson. The state and Bredesen were sued by the illegal immigrants on the grounds of constitutionality, they lost.

I must have missed the part where I called you a racist.
Wait, I didn't call you a racist.
Another mystery solved.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Sorry, you are asserting that illegal voting has happened and happened regularly, so the least you could do is offer proof.
If you actually had any proof, that is.

Do you have proof that it did not happen? In many states, both illegal and legal aliens have shown up for jury duty, only to claim that they could not serve because they were not citizens. Jury candidates are chosen exclusively by voter registration. Hmmm, now how did they come to be called? One of the problems in proving something like this lies in the fact that those who do register and do vote are considered legal under the voting rules.

In Colorado the Secretary of State said this:

In last year's Senate race nearly 5000 illegal aliens cast their vote in the election.
The revelation comes from Colorado Secretary of State, Scott Gessler. Testifying before the House Administration Committee, Gessler said his department conducted a study comparing the state's voter registration database against driver's license records.
After doing so they discovered 12,000 illegal aliens living in the state who were registered to vote. Of these, 5,000 actually cast votes in the last election.

Don't sell yourself short, Tenguy!
When the Klan had its big resurgence in the 1920's, the headquarters of the Klan was located in Indiana and there were many Yankee Klan members all over the North.

Yes, there were hundreds of thousands of Klan members in the North. Tell Kimi that sometime, okay?

[tenguy]

Got an idea.

Let's start a new organization ala ACORN, we can call it AAAPID (Americans Aiding Americans with Picture IDs)

We will establish chapters in each state with volunteers to go to those who have problems in getting to a place to obtain their picture IDs. If we could be assured that the various voters rights and voting assistance organizations would chip in, it could be done inexpensively.

I'll gladly volunteer to help people comply with the voting law's requirements.

Who else is in, Kimi, Baddog, Stumbles, Whitey, the racists?

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Got an idea.

Let's start a new organization ala ACORN, we can call it AAAPID (Americans Aiding Americans with Picture IDs)

We will establish chapters in each state with volunteers to go to those who have problems in getting to a place to obtain their picture IDs. If we could be assured that the various voters rights and voting assistance organizations would chip in, it could be done inexpensively.

I'll gladly volunteer to help people comply with the voting law's requirements.

Who else is in, Kimi, Baddog, Stumbles, Whitey, the racists?

I'll come along - as long as stumbler is not driving!

[BigTrobbing]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

In the first place, it isn't that easy if you don't drive, and the nearest DMV office is open one day a week, 30 miles away. Secondly, it's not just a picture ID...it's proof of citizenship. I couldn't prove MY citizenship without a trip to the safe deposit box at my bank, and even then, tea-partiers wouldn't accept it, since it's a "Certificate of Live Birth".

When the illegals have to get their welfare they have to show ID, when an old person cashes a check they have to show ID and when you get the ID from motor vehicle you have to prove your an American so again to do that you have to show ID.

And when you went for your license you had to show ID and then you got the license. So what exactly is the problem?? You did it. SO why can't these people do it they had to to get their benefits. So again your progressive argument is nothing but shit.

SO tell us again how since they applied for the freebees and had to show some sort of ID for them that it is so hard and inconvenient for them to show ID to vote?? How??

I have said it before I will say it yet again, you progressives really think we are that stupid and your the geniuses LOL What a fucken joke you all are.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

I'll come along - as long as stumbler is not driving!

I'll be right along beside ya'll, but Kimi needs to wear,,,,well...........I guess nothing.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by clarise

Over McCain. Not total. But you are right that I am off. The actual is more like 6%. I stopped following it on the day after, and absentee ballots/recounts/shenanigans changed the numbers a great deal. Hell, there is no other way in heaven or hell to explain Senator Al Franken.

But, all hair-splitting aside... even if 7.2% were the right number... wouldn't you just be proving my point? Do you think illegals don't vote? Are you kidding me? Illegals vote early and often, dude. I know. On the morning of Election Day 2008, I drove through the center of Somerville, MA, one of the "safe harbor cities," and saw tens of thousands of them lined up for miles.

So take your tired bullshit and use it to snuff out what little is left of your brain, while your buddy Pablo refills your crack pipe. Sheesh.

(That wasn't very nice. Sorry. I will rephrase.)

So take your tired bullshit and use it to snuff out what little is left of your brain, while your girltoy Consuelo reheats your bong. Sheesh.

You are laughable, and I mean that sincerely, to even suggest that undocumented immigrants came here to vote, or that they would even take the chance of calling attention to themselves by registering to vote.

And its even more stupid when there are more people over 18 who don't vote than do in this nation.

No one on this thread has uncovered wide spread voting fraud. No one has demonstrated that illegal aliens are tipping elections.

The only thing that has happened in the conservative/Republican/Tea Party are losing elections so they want to keep as many people as possible from voting.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You are laughable, and I mean that sincerely, to even suggest that undocumented immigrants came here to vote, or that they would even take the chance of calling attention to themselves by registering to vote.

And its even more stupid when there are more people over 18 who don't vote than do in this nation.

No one on this thread has uncovered wide spread voting fraud. No one has demonstrated that illegal aliens are tipping elections.

The only thing that has happened in the conservative/Republican/Tea Party are losing elections so they want to keep as many people as possible from voting.

Now that funny.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Yes, there were hundreds of thousands of Klan members in the North. Tell Kimi that sometime, okay?

Yes, there were. Now, let's have a look at statistics on lynching, by state:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ack-per-capita

See a pattern?

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Yes, there were. Now, let's have a look at statistics on lynching, by state:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ack-per-capita

See a pattern?

Yeppers, up North they just froze them to death. Too hot to do that down south.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ims-race-black

See a pattern?

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Yeppers, up North they just froze them to death. Too hot to do that down south.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ims-race-black

See a pattern?

Nah,, up north, they just shoot each other.

[signatory12]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Why did you need a photo ID? And how many times did you need to get one? I spent 7 hours in an emergency room with my elderly sister, that wasn't convenient either, but it was necessary.

Convenience isn't really the question here, it is the excuse given for not getting one.

but you're ignoring the point he's trying to make, ten: that in many places, getting a photo ID isn't something you breeze through. when it can involve taking a day off from work (and taking the very real risk these days that this could get you fired!), doesn't the requirement for a photo ID infringe on working people's rights?

Originally Posted by tenguy

Voting is a responsibility of our citizens, making it open to anyone who walks in to vote is irresponsible and an infringement upon my right to expect my vote to count.

yes, and making it difficult for citizens to exercise their right to vote isn't right either. so which is better: risking a few illegal votes or denying citizens their right to vote?

[signatory12]

Originally Posted by BigTrobbing

When the illegals have to get their welfare they have to show ID, when an old person cashes a check they have to show ID and when you get the ID from motor vehicle you have to prove your an American so again to do that you have to show ID.

And when you went for your license you had to show ID and then you got the license. So what exactly is the problem?? You did it. SO why can't these people do it they had to to get their benefits. So again your progressive argument is nothing but shit.

SO tell us again how since they applied for the freebees and had to show some sort of ID for them that it is so hard and inconvenient for them to show ID to vote?? How??

I have said it before I will say it yet again, you progressives really think we are that stupid and your the geniuses LOL What a fucken joke you all are.

sorry to pop your bubble of ignorance, dipshit, but these days, they don't send out Social Securty check much. most of it's direct deposit, and to access that, all they need is a checking account and checks they can write out. so, guess what, no photo ID needed to pay bills and do most of the other day-to-day stuff either! and getting a photo ID isn't easy either, see some of the discussion further up the thread (if that's not too much work for you, that is).

[xxxdedhed]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You are laughable, and I mean that sincerely, to even suggest that undocumented immigrants came here to vote, or that they would even take the chance of calling attention to themselves by registering to vote.

And its even more stupid when there are more people over 18 who don't vote than do in this nation.

No one on this thread has uncovered wide spread voting fraud. No one has demonstrated that illegal aliens are tipping elections.

The only thing that has happened in the conservative/Republican/Tea Party are losing elections so they want to keep as many people as possible from voting.

I don't think anyone suggested that illegals come here to vote Democratic, but let's face it, once they get here they do, for the most part!And surely you, Stumbler are not naive enough to think that the Dems (and lefties in general) have no interest in making it easier for millions of potential Obama voters to get here? And STAY here once they get here? Of COURSE they want the illegals here, so they can feed and clothe them and make them beholden to the Democrats, and thus become lifelong voters. And THAT is exactly why conservartives want a voter ID law, and why the socialist Obama supporters do not. It is that simple. So let's cut the bullshit about it being a hassle to go and get an ID. Good Lord. If you can't get off your lazy ass to get an ID, then you don't deserve to vote.

I find it a hassle to eat healthy. Maybe the govt. should step in! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

[tenguy]

[QUOTE=signatory12;4389484]

but you're ignoring the point he's trying to make, ten: that in many places, getting a photo ID isn't something you breeze through. when it can involve taking a day off from work (and taking the very real risk these days that this could get you fired!), doesn't the requirement for a photo ID infringe on working people's rights?

Sorry but I do not buy this argument one bit. A working person is most likely to already possess such a photo ID, how many do not have some kind of a bank account? How many do not have a drivers license? If they are working, they either live in the city or drive to work in the country, so the problem of access is a moot one. We are talking about one day in the span of two years, if someone can not manage to get to a registry office, then they probably could not get to the polls either.

yes, and making it difficult for citizens to exercise their right to vote isn't right either. so which is better: risking a few illegal votes or denying citizens their right to vote?

No one is denying their right to vote, they are demanding that the voter proves that he/she is eligible, huge difference.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You are laughable, and I mean that sincerely, to even suggest that undocumented immigrants came here to vote, or that they would even take the chance of calling attention to themselves by registering to vote.

They do not come here to vote. They come here to soak taxpayers. Then they educate themselves, with the help of community organizers like ACORN, on how to do that into perpetuity. They are assisted in registering to vote. They do so illegally, with their counterfeit identification.

Originally Posted by stumbler

And its even more stupid when there are more people over 18 who don't vote than do in this nation.

And 2008 had tens of millions of first-time voters who will never drag their sorry asses out of the meth clinic to vote again.

Because they are disillusioned.

By their Messiah.

Wall St. Journal/NBC Poll: Obama's popularity drops into the negative for the first time. (This morning's newspaper, so most likely yesterday's news.) You and yours ought to try reading more than your pinko-leftist blogs, because you're all hopelessly behind the times.

Originally Posted by stumbler

No one on this thread has uncovered wide spread voting fraud. No one has demonstrated that illegal aliens are tipping elections.

Nor will they ever. Hell, no one will ever quantify the degree to which Aunty Zeituni has been soaking taxpayers all these years, either. And ICE never found Uncle Omar, even though he owned a business for more than a decade and had a valid Massachusetts drivers license. No one ever proves any of this stuff, because investigative journalism is dead, and our great mainstream press buries half the stories. To find real news, you have to read financial papers, like WSJ, IBD, and the London Financial Times, because investors need facts. The rest is all noise.

But what does any of that have to do with anything? I still don't get it. What harm does it do to check ID's at polling places? What are you afraid of?

Originally Posted by stumbler

The only thing that has happened in the conservative/Republican/Tea Party are losing elections so they want to keep as many people as possible from voting.

I'm doing a huge HUH??? right now. Whatever. I'll roll with your insanity, and respond:

Yeah. That's why Capuano, Hoffa, Biden, et. al. are calling for armed insurrection, blood in the streets, and a last defense against the barbarians at the gates. That's why the Tea Party are being vilified and demonized, just for the crime of demanding a break in the gridlock and a return to political amity. That's why Maxine Waters is calling for all the banks to be shut down if they won't ante up and hand out more risky loans, even as the federal government is suing those same banks for writing the risky loans that Democratic governments from the Clinton Administration (Janet Reno) through the Obama administration (Holder) coerced them into writing. It goes on, and on, and on. This new era of cooperation. The New Civil Discourse. What a bleeping laugh.

Yep, it sure sounds to me like the Democrats are looking forward to victory in 2012.... NOT!!! Sounds much more like they are fricking desperate. And they should be.

If the illegal immigrants did not vote for Obama in 2008, they had damned well better show up in 2012! In droves! Or he does not have a bleeping chance.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

No one is denying their right to vote, they are demanding that the voter proves that he/she is eligible, huge difference.

You're in denial as to their intent, tenguy. As usual.

[Kimiko]

Originally Posted by tenguy

Yeppers, up North they just froze them to death. Too hot to do that down south.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ims-race-black

See a pattern?

I thought we were talking about racially-motivated hate crimes.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

Yes, there were. Now, let's have a look at statistics on lynching, by state:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri...ack-per-capita

See a pattern?

Yes and we can see the same pattern right here. We see the racism and prejudice just jump out while some people falsely accuse undocumented immigrants which is simply ridiculous on face value. Undocumented immigrants come here to work, not vote, and they don't expose themselves or show their ID's anymore than absolutely necessary.

But what really exposes the complete and total irrationality of that position is that as one of the brainwashed parrots claim they use their fake ID's to register to vote. Which means the laws they are advocating for would actually allow more undocumented immigrants to vote since all of them have to have a photo ID and another form ID to get a job.

Originally Posted by signatory12

sorry to pop your bubble of ignorance, dipshit, but these days, they don't send out Social Securty check much. most of it's direct deposit, and to access that, all they need is a checking account and checks they can write out. so, guess what, no photo ID needed to pay bills and do most of the other day-to-day stuff either! and getting a photo ID isn't easy either, see some of the discussion further up the thread (if that's not too much work for you, that is).

One of the first things many older people experience is they have to give up driving and as soon as they do they've no longer got a photo ID. And we can see that not only the laws, but also the government budget cuts, and redistricting all work together as a series of obsticals for people like that to get a photo ID. They are simply trying to make voting too much trouble for them.

Because senior citizens are one of the most solid and feared voting demographics in the nation and can vote as almost a unanimous block on some issues. So if they are trying to end Medicare and Social Security its important to try and limit the people most likely to vote against them.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

I don't think anyone suggested that illegals come here to vote Democratic,

See Clarise.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

but let's face it,

I bet you can't. Face it that is.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

once they get here they do, for the most part!

No, this lie is where I have to draw the line.

It is irrational and illogical to think let alone claim that people who are not legal immigrants are going to expose themselves to the risk of being caught by presenting themselves to election officials in order to vote. The last thing an undocumented worker wants is to call attention to themselves.

And what seems more stupid than that to me is that people like you and Clarise can't see that the restrictive voting laws we are talking about require a photo ID which almost all undocumented workers have.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

And surely you, Stumbler are not naive enough to think that the Dems (and lefties in general) have no interest in making it easier for millions of potential Obama voters to get here?

Bullshit. The Obama Administration has applied far more resources on the border and deported record numbers of undocumented immigrants.

So that dog won't hunt. The Democrats and President Obama are not importing votes.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

And STAY here once they get here? Of COURSE they want the illegals here, so they can feed and clothe them and make them beholden to the Democrats, and thus become lifelong voters.

Nope, now this is an outrageous lie. And I mean just 100% opposite of what actually happened.

The illegal immigration problem was supposed to be solved once and for all in 1986 with a bi-partisan effort, called the Simpson-Mazzoli Act that offered undocumented immigrants a one time amnesty.

But that was when we were suffering the disaster of the Reagan Administration and didn't need a cheap and illegal workforce but as soon as the economy picked up and with NAFTA in place, the funding to stop illegal immigration was cut and the border essentially opened.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

And THAT is exactly why conservartives want a voter ID law,

Bullshit again. The reason the conservative/Republican/Tea Baggers want a voter ID law is because they are no longer the majority and they really don't like that.

They are having a really hard time coping with the reality that the predominately white Anglo-Saxon Christians are no longer the dominate majority. Minorities now out number them and its the minorities they are trying to keep from voting. They are simply trying to rig the game in their favor just like they did for 100 years in the south.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

and why the socialist Obama supporters do not.

First you're a liar right here. Me nor president Obama is any more of a socialist anymore than you are a Nazi.

And second, the reason I oppose the ALEC inspired and Koch brothers funded attempts to keep the poor, the minorities, and the ederly from voting is because our entire constitution is based on that right for everyone.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

It is that simple.

No that would be simpleton not simple.

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

So let's cut the bullshit about it being a hassle to go and get an ID.

Let's see who is bullshitting here. Where in the constitution does it say anything about what the people need to prove.

It doesn't. It says; "We the people."

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

Good Lord. If you can't get off your lazy ass to get an ID, then you don't deserve to vote.

That would make voting a privilege like driving then wouldn't it. But voting isn't a privilege is it? No voting is the most basic right we have. Guaranteed to we the people and who are you to suddenly decide some of we the people don't deserve our most basic right?

Originally Posted by xxxdedhed

I find it a hassle to eat healthy. Maybe the govt. should step in! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

And I find having to counter the ignorance spewed by brainwashed parrots a real hassle but I feel obligated to do it lest the less informed or mentally impaired might accidentally believe you.

Originally Posted by Kimiko

I thought we were talking about racially-motivated hate crimes.

To me we are. The conservative/Republican/Tea Baggers hate old people, the poor, and minorities and since they are now outnumber they wish to return to the good old days of the south where a minority of Whites could keep black people powerless and victims of constant terrorism for 100 years.

I see these latest attempts as nothing less than that. They just want to conduct the suppression nationally instead of regionally this time.

And hopefully the Department of Justice and the Obama Administration can stop these attempts once and for all.

[tenguy]

Originally Posted by Kimiko

You're in denial as to their intent, tenguy. As usual.

No not really, I am in opposition to your assumptions of the motivation of the voter laws. All of the accusations are hollow, they are figments of your wishful imagination.

Hmm, what other possible explanation could there be, voter eligibility assurance? Is that possible?

How about the FACT that thousands of ineligible voters have been uncovered in several states. Add to that the problems of "deadwood" on the registered voter list and the potential for fraud skyrockets.

Why on earth would you object to cleaning up those rolls?