Calling All Writers - Going Forward

[ejls]

Originally Posted by smcaaphd

If voting is done via pm, then the votee would automatically be giving express permission for their vote to be made public if there should be a public tally at the end (and I believe there should, to do away with suggestions that voting has been rigged in favour of friends, etc).

This could be stipulated in the new challenge thread, by the OP, with a disclaimer stating that it is up to each votee to make sure of the terms of the voting system.

I also agree that there should be more than one person who keeps a tally. Voters should put all tally-counters in the addressee bar (NOT BCC any of them). That way, all can be aware that the votes are going to all relevant parties.

One thing I find myself not agreeing on is that the stories should go on the story site. While I understand that some may not like reading from the forum, I would be hesitant to put my work up on there, due to the skimming of stories that has been done in the past, and ended up on different web sites without my permission. None of the stories put up on the forum seem to have appeared anywhere else, just the story site.

oOo before I finish...some of the competitions have been tainted by bickering between members. Claims of favouritism, pandering for votes, and other stuff (am I right that it wasn't just the last one that has seen accusations of all kinds fly about?)

While there is little we can do to stop disgruntled members from posting accusations, we can all choose to ignore the comments, and *force* the competitions to carry on in the vein in which they were started; i.e. friendly competition. I would think that if the majority ignores the minority, the minority will get very bored very quickly and give up. It is a shame to see these competitions descend into rabid chaos just because of a few remarks.

No one is requiring anyone to post anywhere but the place of their choice.

5. Entries may be posted to either the Sex Stories Site or the Sex Stories Forum. If a writer chooses to only post their story on the SS Site, he/she should create a thread here in the forum with the link to the story (ex. Little Bo Sleeps - CAW 00 entry). Entries may not be submitted before the date specified by the host of the challenge. Links must be sent to the CAW host via private messaging. If a writer does not receive an acknowledgement to his/her pm, it will be up to the writer to follow-up and confirm that his/her entry will appear in the CAW.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Aren't we getting just a little bit precious here?

There was nothing wrong with how the voting was run in previous CAWs. Yes some stories have won by landslides but usually its reasonably close.

No one seems to remember the writers; for most getting a vote or, God willing, a few votes is mana from heaven. Why torment them? They sweat over their offering and have to wait a month before they know if anyone voted for them?

How fair is that?

And as for Rule 5. You can't put your story up because someone might plagiarize it? Hello? We are serious here aren't we. A copy of someone else's story is readily apparent and would bring disdainful mocking on the writer concerned.

Rule 5 on the grounds a story might be forgotten? Wouldn't the anointed one put them in a folder?

Rule #5 goes back to the original CAW and the second one. It is much easier for the host to track stories all submitted at the same time. Readers will have plenty of time to view all of the stories and are less likely to forget a story they read 4 weeks earlier.

We've already had one instance where a writer did not follow the directions as to how to advise he was entering, never confirmed the post where the host announced who had submitted and did any one have anything else. After the poll went up this writer became extremely angry because his entry did not make the poll.

There is no waiting a month for the results. Voting will be done over a nine day period and then announced.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by ejls

Rule #5 goes back to the original CAW and the second one. It is much easier for the host to track stories all submitted at the same time. Readers will have plenty of time to view all of the stories and are less likely to forget a story they read 4 weeks earlier.

We've already had one instance where a writer did not follow the directions as to how to advise he was entering, never confirmed the post where the host announced who had submitted and did any one have anything else. After the poll went up this writer became extremely angry because his entry did not make the poll.

There is no waiting a month for the results. Voting will be done over a nine day period and then announced.

And as a CAW participant, I have no problems waiting 9 days for results. Are there any other CAW participants who see 9 days as an issue?

[smcaaphd]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

And as a CAW participant, I have no problems waiting 9 days for results. Are there any other CAW participants who see 9 days as an issue?

Well...if the doctor tells me I only have eight days to live, I can see it being an issue!!

Mind you, I might get sympathy votes. Better he tells me I have four days to live...more time for more people to vote sympathetically

[onehandedtypist]

Originally Posted by 1BadDaddy

If the voting is going to be completely anonymous and secret, then we better be able to fully trust the host. If the voting is never revealed, then an unscrupulous host could simply pick the next winner. Maybe he would pick his friend, or pick the story that he thought SHOULD HAVE won.

Considering the shenanigans that go on here, I think you have to publish who voted for who. That way everyone could see that it was done honestly.

+1

[WebCam]

Just my opinion - the whole thing has gone too far and become way too serious and political. It would be nice if it could just be simple and fun. Unfortunately the nature of these things is that they get more difficult to control as they gain momentum and interest, that is to say that more rules and restrictions need to be put in place to keep it under control. Unfortunately that makes it far less appealing if you ask me.

On a personal note, I will be sitting out of future CAW challenges until further notice because I feel that the type of story I write is better suited to other sites and forums which attract a different kind of audience. This combined with what I said above makes it sort of pointless for me to enter CAW challenges. I will be keeping an eye on it and will keep an interest in seing it develop. I'll look forward to reading your entries.

Web Cam. X.x.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

Rule #5 goes back to the original CAW and the second one. It is much easier for the host to track stories all submitted at the same time. Readers will have plenty of time to view all of the stories and are less likely to forget a story they read 4 weeks earlier.

We've already had one instance where a writer did not follow the directions as to how to advise he was entering, never confirmed the post where the host announced who had submitted and did any one have anything else. After the poll went up this writer became extremely angry because his entry did not make the poll.

There is no waiting a month for the results. Voting will be done over a nine day period and then announced.

Well it probably is but is convenience for the organizer the most important thing here?

Voting is over nine days. Nine days? Why so short a time frame?

This just seems nonsensical to me but I have no say so just do what you want.

[snowleopard3200]

Nine days sounds fine.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Well it probably is but is convenience for the organizer the most important thing here?

Voting is over nine days. Nine days? Why so short a time frame?

This just seems nonsensical to me but I have no say so just do what you want.

Because the reading should be able to be completed before voting, we don't need 2 weeks to vote. Nine days because if someone is going to be away on vacation it normally encompasses a week and two weekends. This can't be convenient for everyone but I want to try to make it available for most.

[onehandedtypist]

Originally Posted by snowleopard3200

Nine days sounds fine.

+1

[Empress Lainie]

Having read all 60 posts, I agree with the rules as amended.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

Because the reading should be able to be completed before voting, we don't need 2 weeks to vote. Nine days because if someone is going to be away on vacation it normally encompasses a week and two weekends. This can't be convenient for everyone but I want to try to make it available for most.

Who said anything about reading? I'm talking about making up our minds.

This all sounds terribly perfunctory; write the story, send it at the appropriate time, get on with your life for one month, or part thereof plus nine days and then you find out if anyone voted for your story.

So where is the thrill for the writers to find if anyone voted for them on a day by day basis. I've done 2 and there is real excitement for us average Joes in the daily check.


These are the guys who should get ,if no reward, at least a little ongoing excitement in their lives.

Its as if all that matters is winning the bloody thing and to me its not.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Who said anything about reading? I'm talking about making up our minds.

This all sounds terribly perfunctory; write the story, send it at the appropriate time, get on with your life for one month, or part thereof plus nine days and then you find out if anyone voted for your story.

So where is the thrill for the writers to find if anyone voted for them on a day by day basis. I've done 2 and there is real excitement for us average Joes in the daily check.


These are the guys who should get ,if no reward, at least a little ongoing excitement in their lives.

Its as if all that matters is winning the bloody thing and to me its not.

That is why people should (and a whole lot more do) comment on the stories as they read them. That (during that month) should keep the writers satisfied that they have done well. Then the voters can leave comments on the voter thread (if they want to) stating who they cast their vote for and encouraging others to vote. There will also be a new element of anticipation as we await the day the winner is announced. It will be like the Oscars or the Emmys or the Golden Globes. I think it all sounds exciting.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Who said anything about reading? I'm talking about making up our minds.

This all sounds terribly perfunctory; write the story, send it at the appropriate time, get on with your life for one month, or part thereof plus nine days and then you find out if anyone voted for your story.

So where is the thrill for the writers to find if anyone voted for them on a day by day basis. I've done 2 and there is real excitement for us average Joes in the daily check.


These are the guys who should get ,if no reward, at least a little ongoing excitement in their lives.

Its as if all that matters is winning the bloody thing and to me its not.

Not that PP sees this because I'm on his ignore list, but I'll answer anyway since others may benefit from the answer.

1. Nine days is plenty of time to make up one's mind. We're talking about voting for a story on a porn site, not picking a Pulitzer Prize winner.

2. No one is saying you can't get feedback about your story. You can post it here and get feedback via the forum. You can post it in the stories site and get comments and votes/ratings over there. You can get PMs from people telling you what they thought, or how they voted. You can see comments in the voting thread if people choose to publicly disclose their vote.

The idea of holding off reporting the results has good merit. Right now, out of how many posts...you seem to be the only voice of dissent. Perhaps you should consider that this has been discussed, debated, thought out, compromised, and dissected via 50+ PMs over the past several weeks...it isn't something that was just tossed together on a whim.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Nonsense Horse.

You can have all the nice encouraging comments you like but they're not a vote and last time I checked they don't count.

You and the fifty others don't seem to give a rat's arse about the writers.

Is it this American fixation with winning?

And 9 days is no where near long enough to make a decision; not when there are 25 stories and none of them has set you on fire.Or, being positive so many are just so good.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Nonsense Horse.

You can have all the nice encouraging comments you like but they're not a vote and last time I checked they don't count.

You and the fifty others don't seem to give a rat's arse about the writers.

Is it this American fixation with winning?

And 9 days is no where near long enough to make a decision; not when there are 25 stories and none of them has set you on fire.Or, being positive so many are just so good.

And here you were saying that winning isn't important to you, yet, now you say you're only interested in votes and not the comments.

Maybe I and 50 others care, and you are simply about stirring up shit, which is sure what it seems to be. You just dissed every other person who posted in this thread. Shame on you.

Yep, you're just going back to being a troublemaker and not really interested in being at all helpful. And as far as your anti-American comment, that just shows your ignorance. I'm surprised at you. Well, after dissing every one here, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I think I'll just stop responding to your whinings and instead work in a more positive way that is beneficial to the majority and doesn't insult everyone else here.

[Prurient Purveyer]

You really are unbelievable.
As usual you resort to personal attacks.

I stand by what I said, what's proposed has nothing in it for most of the entrants.

if you think that winning is all that matters the good for you. I think you're an idiot and so far I have seen nothing from you to suggest I'm wrong.

Note that applies to you only not the other 50 poster I'm supposed to have insulted.

[Daddycums]

I agree with most of the rules as stated. However, I do have one suggestion. At the end of Rule #1:

If it is discovered that you have voted more than once, using alternate accounts, only your first vote will count. All others will be removed. No exceptions.

I think ALL votes by the cheater should be removed. If the result of getting caught cheating is to be no worse off than those who never cheated in the first place, where's the incentive NOT to vote multiple times?

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Daddycums

I agree with most of the rules as stated. However, I do have one suggestion. At the end of Rule #1:

I think ALL votes by the cheater should be removed. If the result of getting caught cheating is to be no worse off than those who never cheated in the first place, where's the incentive NOT to vote multiple times?

So changed.

[wantsomefun]

All right, all right boys. Stop and breathe.

PP has raised some points that should be addressed.

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Aren't we getting just a little bit precious here?

There was nothing wrong with how the voting was run in previous CAWs. Yes some stories have won by landslides but usually its reasonably close.

No one seems to remember the writers; for most getting a vote or, God willing, a few votes is mana from heaven. Why torment them? They sweat over their offering and have to wait a month before they know if anyone voted for them?

How fair is that?

And as for Rule 5. You can't put your story up because someone might plagiarize it? Hello? We are serious here aren't we. A copy of someone else's story is readily apparent and would bring disdainful mocking on the writer concerned.

Rule 5 on the grounds a story might be forgotten? Wouldn't the anointed one put them in a folder?

The original CAW concept was to have a fun event where people wrote stuff based on a common theme. Voting was included, in large part, to pick a member to run the following Challenge. The competitive nature of humans caused some people to look for an edge, not only in their writing, but also in their social networking -- they don't stop working just because their story has been submitted. A few created sock accounts to "stuff the ballot box." In the last one, several entries were removed, either because their writer's had gotten banned, or because they broke stated rules of that particular CAW, entering more than one story and casting pretty obvious sock votes. Yes, it's precious. Apparently, it's also necessary to try to prevent the cluster-fuck we had in CAW #10. Clearly stating rules, hopefully, will minimize confusion, bickering, and cheating.

SMC's mention of plagiarism wasn't about some idiot copying a story from somewhere on this site and submitting it as his own. She was concerned with some of the fly-by-night websites out there that have been known to rip off the contents of the entire front page of http://stories.xnxx.com/, assigning new user names to our work, while letting our forums alone. The proviso that you can post where you like answers that concern.

The CAW host doesn't put anything in a folder. He/she isn't actually posting the stories, just a list of links to them.

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Well it probably is but is convenience for the organizer the most important thing here?

Voting is over nine days. Nine days? Why so short a time frame?

This just seems nonsensical to me but I have no say so just do what you want.

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Who said anything about reading? I'm talking about making up our minds.

This all sounds terribly perfunctory; write the story, send it at the appropriate time, get on with your life for one month, or part thereof plus nine days and then you find out if anyone voted for your story.

So where is the thrill for the writers to find if anyone voted for them on a day by day basis. I've done 2 and there is real excitement for us average Joes in the daily check.


These are the guys who should get ,if no reward, at least a little ongoing excitement in their lives.

Its as if all that matters is winning the bloody thing and to me its not.

Nine days is the "voting period," which follows a "reading period" which will encompass as many days as there were stories submitted. If you have, say twenty entries, you then have twenty-nine total days to read and make up your mind. Your opinions of a story form as you read it, don't they? By the time you're done reading a group of stories, don't you have at least a vague idea of which ones deserve your consideration for a vote?

I understand your concern about writers getting feedback. As others have said, here and elsewhere, honest comments on stories are a huge reward to a writer and can often help him/her to hone his/her skills. In the ideas proposed so far, there's nothing discouraging people from giving a writer a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down publicly, from the time a story is first posted. The idea of a secret ballot is to give the writers a second chance at gratification.

This whole thing is being proposed to HELP the writers. The control part of it comes from a fairly obvious need to introduce some structure into the chaos that CAWs have become.

I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but winning, to me isn't everything. Sure, it was cool having my name up in lights for a little while, and I've "met" some interesting people because of it and probably expanded my readership.

BUT, I personally believe that some of my better stories have been ones that either didn't come close to winning a CAW, or weren't written for a CAW at all.

Some writers maintain they do it for the love of the craft, or to still the beast eating up their soul, or something. They claim they don't care who reads them or whether their stories are well-received. Okay, maybe. But I have to wonder why they bother to post their stuff, if that's really true.

To one degree or another, everyone who has posted a story on this site since it's inception is an attention-whore. We like our "attaboys." Getting good read counts, ratings, comments, and votes in a Challenge gives us a sense of satisfaction. Winning a CAW is the forum version of staying at the top of the front page on the Stories Site, so, yes, winning is, to many people, important.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by wantsomefun

All right, all right boys. Stop and breathe.

PP has raised some points that should be addressed.



The original CAW concept was to have a fun event where people wrote stuff based on a common theme. Voting was included, in large part, to pick a member to run the following Challenge. The competitive nature of humans caused some people to look for an edge, not only in their writing, but also in their social networking -- they don't stop working just because their story has been submitted. A few created sock accounts to "stuff the ballot box." In the last one, several entries were removed, either because their writer's had gotten banned, or because they broke stated rules of that particular CAW, entering more than one story and casting pretty obvious sock votes. Yes, it's precious. Apparently, it's also necessary to try to prevent the cluster-fuck we had in CAW #10. Clearly stating rules, hopefully, will minimize confusion, bickering, and cheating.

SMC's mention of plagiarism wasn't about some idiot copying a story from somewhere on this site and submitting it as his own. She was concerned with some of the fly-by-night websites out there that have been known to rip off the contents of the entire front page of http://stories.xnxx.com/, assigning new user names to our work, while letting our forums alone. The proviso that you can post where you like answers that concern.

The CAW host doesn't put anything in a folder. He/she isn't actually posting the stories, just a list of links to them.





Nine days is the "voting period," which follows a "reading period" which will encompass as many days as there were stories submitted. If you have, say twenty entries, you then have twenty-nine total days to read and make up your mind. Your opinions of a story form as you read it, don't they? By the time you're done reading a group of stories, don't you have at least a vague idea of which ones deserve your consideration for a vote?

I understand your concern about writers getting feedback. As others have said, here and elsewhere, honest comments on stories are a huge reward to a writer and can often help him/her to hone his/her skills. In the ideas proposed so far, there's nothing discouraging people from giving a writer a thumbs-up or a thumbs-down publicly, from the time a story is first posted. The idea of a secret ballot is to give the writers a second chance at gratification.

This whole thing is being proposed to HELP the writers. The control part of it comes from a fairly obvious need to introduce some structure into the chaos that CAWs have become.

I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but winning, to me isn't everything. Sure, it was cool having my name up in lights for a little while, and I've "met" some interesting people because of it and probably expanded my readership.

BUT, I personally believe that some of my better stories have been ones that either didn't come close to winning a CAW, or weren't written for a CAW at all.

Some writers maintain they do it for the love of the craft, or to still the beast eating up their soul, or something. They claim they don't care who reads them or whether their stories are well-received. Okay, maybe. But I have to wonder why they bother to post their stuff, if that's really true.

To one degree or another, everyone who has posted a story on this site since it's inception is an attention-whore. We like our "attaboys." Getting good read counts, ratings, comments, and votes in a Challenge gives us a sense of satisfaction. Winning a CAW is the forum version of staying at the top of the front page on the Stories Site, so, yes, winning is, to many people, important.

This is good but ( you knew a 'but' was coming ,huh?) I go back to my original issue and that is ; where is the fun for the writers who aren't going to come anywhere and for whom a vote can mean so much.

You say it really is about them but plainly it isn't; its about organizational convenience.A nice comment is a nice comment but a vote! Wow, they can sit there gazing at the screen and know that someone somewhere though their entry was the best of the lot. With the best will in the world a nice comment doesn't carry that much weight.

On time frame, no, you're wrong.

If one rips into a story, skim along, doesn't engage, just looks for the plot and onto the end then rates it, well its an insult to the writer and a waste of time.

If you want to read them properly you have to get right into them, understand or try to the characters and, as the saying goes, where he's coming from (or she) and its a real effort. I don't know about you but for me it's quite draining; rewarding but draining. And it isn't what you want to do one day after another surely?

So on that basis alone I think the time frame from Posting to Close of Voting is too short and if the nine day period is to limit the agony then isn't that saying they (the writers) really do want to know how their little epic got on in which case wouldn't they really want to know day by day?

[BlackRonin]

All the proposed rules in their present form seem fine to me, although to be honest most of them are so straightforward as to make it seem not wholly necessary to set them in stone like this. Although I always did like being able to have more than one entry, as the primary appeal of the challenge for me was always that it increases my readership about tenfold, and a lot of the time I have two (or three) different story ideas that are on-topic and could use the attention. But one entry per contestant has a nice sense of unity to it, and the reading period is time-consuming as it is, so I don't object all that strenuously.

Frankly, the only thing I have a problem with is having to wait until May to get the new one started. I guess I understand that doing this is actually a lot of work for the host and s/he (she in this case) appreciates a breather, but by the time CAW 11 draws to a close half the year will be gone with only two challenges to show for it. We're all here to write, so I'm for getting to the writing part as expediently as possible.

[snowleopard3200]

Black Ronin - I am personally glad to see a new CAW challenge coming up; as CAW 10 was the first one I ever entered I figured there would be almost a full year between them.

The last CAW brought out the best writers this sight has; may the next one bring even more.

[ejls]

I've need the last few weeks to decompress from the fall-out from the CAW, and from real life in general. My next priority was to create an SOP for all future CAW's so no one will question actions taken by the host. I agree it's sad that a writing exercise should have to come to this, but it was forced upon us. This is the first I've written anything; I haven't even worked on the story I was writing before the CAW.

I am trying to decide what the inspiration will be for the new CAW. I've got it down to a couple of selections. I hope it will be worth the wait.

[onehandedtypist]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

This is good but ( you knew a 'but' was coming ,huh?) I go back to my original issue and that is ; where is the fun for the writers who aren't going to come anywhere and for whom a vote can mean so much.

I will say, seeing that I received a vote is rewarding in its own special way. It gives a sense of accomplishment. I can only wonder what it's like to receive a dozen votes on an entry. Saying that, knowing the play by play of how the votes are tallying up is both detrimental and inspirational. Seeing 'Xmember' has several votes on the first day of voting compared with your own zilch isn't exactly a pleasant experience. Though when the last few days of the contest are rolling around and one or two people decide that what you've written is worthy of their (voting) admonishment, it is truly the best feeling in the world as far as this forum goes.

You say it really is about them but plainly it isn't; its about organizational convenience.A nice comment is a nice comment but a vote! Wow, they can sit there gazing at the screen and know that someone somewhere though their entry was the best of the lot. With the best will in the world a nice comment doesn't carry that much weight.

In the latest CAW10, I received many comments on my entry. A few notable members helped me to realize what power I have with my minimalist style. That in and of itself made entering worth my effort.

On time frame, no, you're wrong.

If one rips into a story, skim along, doesn't engage, just looks for the plot and onto the end then rates it, well its an insult to the writer and a waste of time.

That is how most people tend to 'read' their stories. This is a porn site. If the guy isn't spewing loads of baby gravy into a tight fertile teen twat by the second paragraph, your story will most certainly be ignored. What you've written is judged not by the color of its book jacket but by the content of its pages.

If you want to read them properly you have to get right into them, understand or try to the characters and, as the saying goes, where he's coming from (or she) and its a real effort. I don't know about you but for me it's quite draining; rewarding but draining. And it isn't what you want to do one day after another surely?

So on that basis alone I think the time frame from Posting to Close of Voting is too short and if the nine day period is to limit the agony then isn't that saying they (the writers) really do want to know how their little epic got on in which case wouldn't they really want to know day by day?

I disagree with this to a point. I've read all of the entries in two days. In that time, I've already ruled out half of them. I read what is left again, a day or so later and some of those don't make the next cut. Usually, there are a handful left. I then go into the technical aspects. Punctuation, paragraph separation, overall content, dialogue, continuity...

In seven days I usually have one or two entries to decide between. Nine days is actually too long in my opinion but it seems fair enough.

Seeing the results is both detrimental and inspirational as I've already addressed above.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by onehandedtypist

Seeing the results is both detrimental and inspirational as I've already addressed above.

You make a good point.

Two CAWs ago ELP wrote a great story that ran away with the vote right from the beginning. It's my belief that if someone comes to the voting section, sees that one story is a virtual runaway train with little chance of being caught, they might not bother reading all of the stories and vote. Authors typically will read stories and vote. But others might look and go "Oh, well, this is already over, what's the point?" and move on. THAT's one thing I think can be avoided by non-disclosure of the actual results until the end.

We're talking about 9 days of not knowing results. I think we can all live in suspense for 9 days. As others have pointed out, there will be pseudo-exit polls where bits and pieces will be found. And in comments too.

Quite frankly, I'd be more than happy if we abandoned the voting entirely and simply had topics to write about. I think it is the voting, etc. that gets everyone hyped up here. Take the voting away. Come up with a way to announce new writing topics, and let people write. I care far more about comments than votes. Hey, a vote is nice...I know that. But it takes a click. A comment takes someone actually putting to words, good or bad, something about your story.

But I feel I'm in the vast minority about doing away with voting entirely, so, the next best thing is to try and make things as fair as possible.

[Hardrive]

I've not read all the post on this tread so I don't know if this has been discussed but I'd like to propose an idea that I proposed a long time ago.

1) Every story is posted with its own poll.

2) After reading a story (and while it is fresh on their minds) the reader gives the story a point value from 1 to 5.

5 points if they thought the story was excellent.
4 points means the story was very good.
3 points means it was good.
2 points means it was just Okay.
1 point means they didn't like it.

At the end of the challenge the votes are totaled and the story with the most cumulative points ... wins.

This is not some new weird idea. This kind of voting is used in many professional contest and it works just fine. (IE Professional Photographer use this method to judge prints.) In a sense, a lot of the TV contest work this way. The judges vote on each contestant’s performance and it is the cumulative vote that determines the winner.

Just a thought.

HD

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

I've not read all the post on this tread so I don't know if this has been discussed but I'd like to propose an idea that I proposed a long time ago.

1) Every story is posted with its own poll.

2) After reading a story (and while it is fresh on their minds) the reader gives the story a point value from 1 to 5.

5 points if they thought the story was excellent.
4 points means the story was very good.
3 points means it was good.
2 points means it was just Okay.
1 point means they didn't like it.

At the end of the challenge the votes are totaled and the story with the most cumulative points ... wins.

This is not some new weird idea. This kind of voting is used in many professional contest and it works just fine. (IE Professional Photographer use this method to judge prints.) In a sense, a lot of the TV contest work this way. The judges vote on each contestant’s performance and it is the cumulative vote that determines the winner.

Just a thought.

HD

I like it. Bet horse does too

[snowleopard3200]

HardDrive - an idea worth consideration.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

I've not read all the post on this tread so I don't know if this has been discussed but I'd like to propose an idea that I proposed a long time ago.

1) Every story is posted with its own poll.

2) After reading a story (and while it is fresh on their minds) the reader gives the story a point value from 1 to 5.

5 points if they thought the story was excellent.
4 points means the story was very good.
3 points means it was good.
2 points means it was just Okay.
1 point means they didn't like it.

At the end of the challenge the votes are totaled and the story with the most cumulative points ... wins.

This is not some new weird idea. This kind of voting is used in many professional contest and it works just fine. (IE Professional Photographer use this method to judge prints.) In a sense, a lot of the TV contest work this way. The judges vote on each contestant’s performance and it is the cumulative vote that determines the winner.

Just a thought.

HD

Hey HD,

The problem with this is that a mediocre story could win over an outstanding story. How?

Let's say I write a mediocre story. (Setting myself up there, eh?) Let's say Writer A writes a great story. I, however, use good marketing and I get, oh, 80 people to come and read and then vote for my story. The average vote is 2, so I get 160 votes. Writer A does no promotion, and only 30 people vote for that story, but they are all blown away and all vote 5. 150 votes. I win 160 to 150.

Is that what we would want to potentially have happen? My example might be a bit extreme, but something like it could happen.

[Chagrin]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

The problem with this is...

The problem with that is that there would be way too many votes to make! With one poll, you have one decision to make: what's your favorite? With the other option, it's like playing Roger Ebert and giving every story 1-5 stars.

I, personally, never vote in CAW, simply because I think it's unfair to vote if I haven't read every story, and I never get around to reading every story.

With so many entries, I also don't expect to win, or even receive a single vote.

I do it because it's a fun activity and it's a great way to be active in the writing community. I entered a recent CAW on a whim, and it helped me get back into writing erotica, which I had put away for years.

CAW, to me, is just a great way to get people writing, reading, and interested in the sex stories section of the forums and of xnxx. That's all it ultimately should be for. Apart from Forum Games (which is a fairly new subforum), Sex Stories has the fewest threads in it, and is generally the slowest section of all. Getting readers and writers hyped up and happy and participating more is the best thing we can do to increase the prominence of our little slice of heaven.

Let's not make CAW overly bureaucratic, or overly stressful for anyone involved. ejls just said she needs a break before the next one. If anything, the winner should be ecstatic and pumped and ready for round 2!

As a game designer, I think about this like my own projects: when a game is complete, I get a short time off to relax, but I am incredibly excited that my project is complete and people are playing it, and the adrenaline I get from knowing people are enjoying my work makes me eager to start the next. CAW should do the same for writers.

If it's getting too stressful for everyone involved (or for anyone at all) maybe it's best to completely rethink the contest. Go back to the roots, figure out what made it great, and start fresh. Maybe make some major tweaks that changes everything. Ask questions about the way things are done: maybe a panel of judges should decide the winner; maybe the number of entries should be limited; maybe the timeframe should be far shorter, or far longer. There are tons of ways this contest can go, and we shouldn't be feeling like anything is carved in stone. If you fall on stone, it hurts! If you fall on dirt, it hurts... um, less... well, sucky analogy, but you get the point

Let's pause and carefully consider why CAW has become so unwieldy. See the forest first.

[Daddycums]

A compromise between the "One person one vote" method and the "Rate every story" method could be to give each voter 3 votes, i.e. they list their top 3 favorite stories in order. The benefit is that it allows "Everybody likes it but it's nobody's favorite" stories to compete against "Some people loved it, some people hated it" stories. 1st place gets 3 points, 2nd place gets 2 points, 3rd place gets 1 point.

An example:

There are 7 stories entered in the contest. There are 3 voters.

Voter 1's vote:

1: My Daddy is Hung Like a Horse (3 pts)
2: Summer Camp for Perverts (2 pts)
3: Dildoes are a Girl's Best Friend (1 pt)

Voter 2's vote:

1: Granny's Knickers (3 pts)
2: Summer Camp for Perverts (2 pts)
3: My First Time with a Crustacean (1 pt)

Voter 3's vote:

1. Me, My Sister, My Sister's Friend, and My Sister's Friend's Father's Girlfriend's Next Door Neighbor's Maid's Younger Sister (3 pts)
2. Blow Up Dolls Are Best (2 pts)
3. Summer Camp for Perverts (1 pt)

In a "1 person 1 vote" system, Summer Camp for Perverts would get 0 votes despite appealing to all the voters. In this system, its broad appeal nets it 5 votes, enough to win the contest.

I'm not necessarily suggesting this is the best way to manage the votes; I'm just throwing it out as an idea.

[Hardrive]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

Hey HD,

Let's say I write a mediocre story. (Setting myself up there, eh?) Let's say Writer A writes a great story. I, however, use good marketing and I get, oh, 80 people to come and read and then vote for my story. The average vote is 2, so I get 160 votes. Writer A does no promotion, and only 30 people vote for that story, but they are all blown away and all vote 5. 150 votes. I win 160 to 150.

Is that what we would want to potentially have happen? My example might be a bit extreme, but something like it could happen.

1) There is no prefect system so if you are looking for perfection, keep looking.

2) The system I suggested is tested and used in many contest.

3) Using your example in the one vote per story system we use now, if you get 80 of your friends to vote for you and the good story only gets 30 votes. You still win but this time by 50 votes. How is that any better.

Let's have a more realistic scenario but on a small scale. Let's say we have 3 stories and 80 voters.
.
Mr. A writes a mediocre story but he has 30 friends that will vote for him.
Mr. B writes a good story and he has 20 friends that will vote for him.
Mr. C writes the best story but only has 10 friends that will vote for him.
Let us add 20 uncommitted voters that will vote for the quality of the stories. Let us also assume that the committed votes will vote for the quality of the stories after they vote for their friend.

Mr.A, (mediocre story) gets 30 friends to vote 5 points for his story but they give a 4 point vote for the best story and a 3 point vote for the Good story.

Mr. B (the good story) is next most popular and gets 20 of his friends to vote for his story but they give a 4 point vote for the best story and a 3 point vote for the mediocre story.

Mr. C, (the best story) only gets 10 friends to vote for his story and they give a 4 point vote for the good story and 3 points for the mediocre.

Finally we have 20 uncommitted votes who vote 5 points for the best story, 4 points for the good story and 3 points for the mediocre story.

The results are:

Mr. A (mediocre story) gets 30 x 5 = 150 and 20 x 3 = 60 and 10 x 3 = 30 and 20 x 3 = 60 for a total of 300 points.

Mr. B (Good story) gets 20 x 5 = 100 and 30 x 3 =90 and 10 x 4 = 40, and 20 x 4 = 80 for a total of 310 points.

Mr. C (best story) gets 10 x 5 = 50, plus 30 x 4 = 120, plus 20 x 4 = 80, plus 20 x 5 = 100 for a total of 450

As you can see, even with 30 committed voters, Mr. A with the mediocre story still comes in third. The best story with only 10 committed votes runs away with the vote and beats the mediocre story by 150 points.

HD

[Forever Whatever]

Originally Posted by Daddycums

3: My First Time with a Crustacean (1 pt)
1. Me, My Sister, My Sister's Friend, and My Sister's Friend's Father's Girlfriend's Next Door Neighbor's Maid's Younger Sister (3 pts)

Personally, I think these two titles should win some sort of prize. I'm looking forward to the next challenge and want to try to submit something. I've read this thread with interest.

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by Daddycums

My First Time with a Crustacean

Me, My Sister, My Sister's Friend, and My Sister's Friend's Father's Girlfriend's Next Door Neighbor's Maid's Younger Sister

Originally Posted by Forever Whatever

Personally, I think these two titles should win some sort of prize. I'm looking forward to the next challenge and want to try to submit something. I've read this thread with interest.

I think the first one might have limited appeal, but I've been wrong before. Yes, Forever Whatever. Write a story. The more the merrier.

@ Hardrive: I've been struggling with mathematical examples too. Theoretically, it would be possible for a story that totally sucks to win, with enough campaigning (vote for me and I'll cam with you! or some such shit). Your math is sound, and you're probably right about how it would go. Maybe I'm just a cynic, but we HAVE seen some scullduggery in the past. There's no point in creating another way to fuck with the voting, IMHO.

I'm going to vote for going with the K.I.S.S. principle on voting. One pair of hands (not one "member", since we've seen how that can go), one story, one vote.

[1BadDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

I've not read all the post on this tread so I don't know if this has been discussed but I'd like to propose an idea that I proposed a long time ago.

1) Every story is posted with its own poll.

2) After reading a story (and while it is fresh on their minds) the reader gives the story a point value from 1 to 5.

5 points if they thought the story was excellent.
4 points means the story was very good.
3 points means it was good.
2 points means it was just Okay.
1 point means they didn't like it.

At the end of the challenge the votes are totaled and the story with the most cumulative points ... wins.

This is not some new weird idea. This kind of voting is used in many professional contest and it works just fine. (IE Professional Photographer use this method to judge prints.) In a sense, a lot of the TV contest work this way. The judges vote on each contestant’s performance and it is the cumulative vote that determines the winner.

Just a thought.

HD

If you have one poll for each story, and the reader votes for each story as he reads them, then this will give a huge advantage to the stories which are listed high up on the list of story links.

Most people are going to begin reading, starting with the first story on the list and then work their way down.

Lots of people never finish reading all the stories for many different reasons. Maybe they're slow readers, life interupts, they get caught by their girlfriend or boss and have to leave for a while, or they grow tired of it all and return to reading stories that are within their favorite genre.

This will give the stories on the top of the list many more votes and it will give the story at the bottom of the list exposure to only the most dedicated readers.

[Hornycountryboy]

I have to say I prefer the one vote (not the one vote for every account I have). I also like the idea of keeping the ballots private till the end besides the ones that say who they voted for. I also believe 9 days is more than enough time to vote.

[Prurient Purveyer]

I still like it as he has suggested. Horse suggests an inferior story might win under that system.With respect the current system whereby one writes a story then goes all out to market the thing means that the same thing can happen now.

The reality is that every story will not get read, most will get skim or part skim read and only a few have a chance of winning.

My point wasn't to stop this it was to let the "also runs" at least have some "me" time.

Under hardrive's system,yes the more people who read a story the more votes it will get and the better its chance of winning.

If we wanted the contest to be decided on the pure merits of the stories relative to each other then they would be listed without acknowledgement to their creator and once polling had closed the winner would be announced. Anyone want that?

For all that I can't see anything changing, one vote per brain is fair and infinitely more rewarding for the lucky recipient than an aggregate score- the first thing that would happen is total votes received would be divided by number of voters and the average used to assert who's story was of the higher quality. Potentially another spat.

Whatever, if vote time is nine days so be it; any one entering knows that and they just have to put their big boy pants on and cross off nine sleeps till they know how they done.

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

I still like it as he has suggested. Horse suggests an inferior story might win under that system.With respect the current system whereby one writes a story then goes all out to market the thing means that the same thing can happen now.

The reality is that every story will not get read, most will get skim or part skim read and only a few have a chance of winning.

My point wasn't to stop this it was to let the "also runs" at least have some "me" time.

Under hardrive's system,yes the more people who read a story the more votes it will get and the better its chance of winning.

If we wanted the contest to be decided on the pure merits of the stories relative to each other then they would be listed without acknowledgement to their creator and once polling had closed the winner would be announced. Anyone want that?

For all that I can't see anything changing, one vote per brain is fair and infinitely more rewarding for the lucky recipient than an aggregate score- the first thing that would happen is total votes received would be divided by number of voters and the average used to assert who's story was of the higher quality. Potentially another spat.

Whatever, if vote time is nine days so be it; any one entering knows that and they just have to put their big boy pants on and cross off nine sleeps till they know how they done.

I think you mentioned earlier that "winning" shouldn't be the big deal it seems to have become. If you did, you're right.

However, apparently not everyone feels that way. I've played with the math a few times now, trying to come up with a voting system I could't beat. I wanted a system where a story like Emerson's fondly remembered, "gloop gloop i smell ur poop" example from a while back couldn't win, or at least steal a hell of votes from slightly better written entries.

I gave up.

1 brain = 1 entry = 1 vote. Simple.

Think of the nine days as REALLY extended foreplay.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by wantsomefun

I think you mentioned earlier that "winning" shouldn't be the big deal it seems to have become. If you did, you're right.

However, apparently not everyone feels that way. I've played with the math a few times now, trying to come up with a voting system I could't beat. I wanted a system where a story like Emerson's fondly remembered, "gloop gloop i smell ur poop" example from a while back couldn't win, or at least steal a hell of votes from slightly better written entries.

I gave up.

1 brain = 1 entry = 1 vote. Simple.

Think of the nine days as REALLY extended foreplay.

I think "winning" can depend on what you want to achieve; if just entering as tory is way over your comfort zone then doing that is winning; if hoping to finish ,say, in the top half is your goal then achieving that is a win and so on.

Its sad, I think, if members don't vote because the story they like most couldn't win. No, it couldn't but one more vote for someone with two, that's a high five moment when he logs in and sees it.

Having said that its meant as a contest and people want to win it. The forum offers the possibility that some members can use socks to write stories and to vote for their own and that patently isn't fair and I agree entirely with any changes aimed at leveling the playing field in that regard.

My hope is that we just go back to a poll; we had 9 with no voting problems and all hell broke loose on Number ten.

Why not try a poll with everyone aware of the new rules on account of they will be on the Post setting out what CAW11 will be.

[ahorsewithnoname]

One thing that needs a little discussion but hasn't been covered much yet is the disclosure/non-disclosure of votes. Two options:

Fred - 13 votes
Sally - 11 votes
Joe - 8 votes
etc. all the way down to
Eggbert - 0 votes

or

Fred - 13 votes (wantsomefun, wantmorefun, wantslotsoffun, neverhasfun, wisheshehadmorefun, doesntknowthemeaningoffun, hasfunwithyoursister, hasfunwithyourgreatgrandmother, hasfunwithyourcrustacean, hasfunwithyourtwingreatgrandmothers, gaveacrustaceananstd, hasfilmtoproveallofthis, seethefilmateleven)

Sally - 11 votes (ahorsewithnoname, ahorsewithtwonames, ahorsesasswithnoname, awhorsewithnoname, awhorewithnoname, whoneedsaneffinnameanyway, hunglikeahorse, thebullshitisrollinginnow, hunglikeapeanutthen, youaregettingwarmer, bitemypeanuthorse)

There's pros and cons for each way. If whom you vote for is NOT disclosed publicly, then there really is free voting...in other words, if you'd like to vote for such and such a story, but, you feel some obligation to vote for a different story because your friend wrote it, or because the person is new, or because no one ever votes for his/her/its stories, or because the sneaky bastard wrote about you in the story, or any of a number of reasons, then you will be really freed because the votes will not be disclosed.

Rest assured, if this is the preferred method, the HOST will *not* be the only one seeing the votes or having access, so, don't worry about the HOST cheating...it can't happen under the new system of how votes will come in and be tabulated. So don't let that deter you from liking this option.

On the other hand, some people may WANT to see who voted for them, want to be able to thank those people, and so on. Of course, there will be leaks, not from the way the votes are counted or anything like that, but, people can and will say how they voted in the Forum and that can't be (and shouldn't be) avoided. Just pointing that out.

So...debate the merits of disclosure or non-disclosure. I stand neutral on this and am fine going either way.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Its a good question but aren't we all big enough to cope with someone we might be friends with deciding to vote on someone else's story?

We're not going to go all bitchy and cold shoulder the insensitive, uncaring, disloyal prick even though we voted for his story last time are we?

Oh.

Any hoo (sorry ELP) its just a buzz to see who voted for you, especially if you get one of the Forum heavy weights plonking a vote down on your story so I am in favor of open voting.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Its a good question but aren't we all big enough to cope with someone we might be friends with deciding to vote on someone else's story?

We're not going to go all bitchy and cold shoulder the insensitive, uncaring, disloyal prick even though we voted for his story last time are we?

Oh.

Any hoo (sorry ELP) its just a buzz to see who voted for you, especially if you get one of the Forum heavy weights plonking a vote down on your story so I am in favor of open voting.

I'm for whatever the majority wants. These new ideas sound good and I (for one) can hardly wait for CAW11.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

One thing that needs a little discussion but hasn't been covered much yet is the disclosure/non-disclosure of votes. Two options:

Fred - 13 votes
Sally - 11 votes
Joe - 8 votes
etc. all the way down to
Eggbert - 0 votes

Can i offer an opinion, from a non writer and a bit of an outsider in here, I think the above is the best way to vote.

although it maybe doesn't stop someone telling another person they voted for them either on the forum or by PM. but you'd never be able to stop that no matter which way the voting was done.

offering an idea here, not for this contest but maybe for a future one.
how about a contest that the story writers are not allowed to vote. non writers voting only. i know that writers are probably the best judges of stories but by having voting like i suggested you'd see just what others thought about your stories for a change.

could also make it, voters must have been members for more than 6 months and made over 100 posts to help deter sock votes.

Tell me to mind my own business, i don't mind, but at least you'll have read my ideas so it wasn't a waste of my time.

[Ed Itor]

#7) Because polls cannot be modified, the votes will be manually tallied by the OP. A member will vote by sending a pm with his/her selection to the CAW host. The Previous CAW Host will also track the voting, and compare those numbers before the winning entry is announced. That person's name should be announced and they should be copied on the pm'd vote. The OP may choose to update the membership as to the number of votes each entry has received, or may choose not to post those numbers until the voting comes to an end. By voting via pm, members should realize that their names will be listed in the results showing their vote and give prior consent to The Hosts to do so by voting. Any vote that does not allow for this will be disqualified.

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

You guys make it sound more and more like winning is everything... I think all told I have the lowest vote count of any Caw entrants and yet I have entered more than 5 of them and that is more than I can count on one hand... On the other hand I can count the number of votes I have gotten and never the two shall meet. I just don't like having to post my story on the forum... Plagiarist sites will be what they will be ... there will always be thieves so long as there is something worth while to steal.

[Hornycountryboy]

I actaully could care less if I were to win. I actually enjoyed writing in the last one and really enjoyed reading everyone else's stories. I really like the idea of being given a topic and trying to write a story for it. That to me is a challenge in itself.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

You guys make it sound more and more like winning is everything... I think all told I have the lowest vote count of any Caw entrants and yet I have entered more than 5 of them and that is more than I can count on one hand... On the other hand I can count the number of votes I have gotten and never the two shall meet. I just don't like having to post my story on the forum... Plagiarist sites will be what they will be ... there will always be thieves so long as there is something worth while to steal.

Glad you mentioned you CJ; if anyone personifies the spirit of the CAWs its you.

Weren't you first in with your story last time?

I look forward to your entry for CAW11

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

Which brings me directly to my point... It doesn't matter who wins... in fact I would hazard to guess that the person who wins has more pressure put on them to come up with something brilliant to write about. Think about these things before you call foul... I mean seriously do you really want to go to the trouble of coming up with something original? and then you have to keep track of fifteen odd writers or more and then you have to set up a poll and then... it's like the song that never ends... and while if given the chance I would come up with something diabolical on the order of Machiavelli, I'm not in any kind of hurry to do so. You gain nothing by winning except servitude to the other writers.

That said I want to say that I care and respect the previous winners of the various CAW's some of their shit is built with real bricks... the rest of you, and you know who you are will carry on with simple tricks and nonsense just like me till your fan base cries out for you to do something Epic... Gods help us when that day arrives.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Ed Itor

#7) Because polls cannot be modified, the votes will be manually tallied by the OP. A member will vote by sending a pm with his/her selection to the CAW host. The Previous CAW Host will also track the voting, and compare those numbers before the winning entry is announced. That person's name should be announced and they should be copied on the pm'd vote. The OP may choose to update the membership as to the number of votes each entry has received, or may choose not to post those numbers until the voting comes to an end. By voting via pm, members should realize that their names will be listed in the results showing their vote and give prior consent to The Hosts to do so by voting. Any vote that does not allow for this will be disqualified.

I really like this, Ed.