Calling All Writers - Going Forward

[ejls]

Originally Posted by crackedjaguar@hotmail.com

You guys make it sound more and more like winning is everything... I think all told I have the lowest vote count of any Caw entrants and yet I have entered more than 5 of them and that is more than I can count on one hand... On the other hand I can count the number of votes I have gotten and never the two shall meet. I just don't like having to post my story on the forum... Plagiarist sites will be what they will be ... there will always be thieves so long as there is something worth while to steal.

You're not required to post your story to the forum, or in other cases the Sex Stories Site. My stories do not get read here on the forum, however it's the only place where I can receive public comment. I've taken a page from blueheatt and start a thread here, giving the link to the site.

[ELaken-Palmer]

I would still like the voters to remain anonymous (known only to the host and previous host for confirmation) and only the vote totals made public at the end. It is only important who won and not who voted for whom.

Seeing who voted for you (or who DIDN'T) does little more than promote bad feelings, in my opinion.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

I would still like the voters to remain anonymous (known only to the host and previous host for confirmation) and only the vote totals made public at the end. It is only important who won and not who voted for whom.

Seeing who voted for you (or who DIDN'T) does little more than promote bad feelings, in my opinion.

Ouch.

Imagine you go to the races, and they're off and everyone turns away from the track, the commentary stops and a Barry Manilow song plays until the commentator announces the winner cause that's all that matters.

Yep, that sounds exciting.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Ouch.

Imagine you go to the races, and they're off and everyone turns away from the track, the commentary stops and a Barry Manilow song plays until the commentator announces the winner cause that's all that matters.

Yep, that sounds exciting.

Imagine watching the Oscars, Billy Crystal does his boring jokes and then it's a night of NOT opening the envelopes because everybody already knows the results.

Yep, that sounds exciting.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

Imagine watching the Oscars, Billy Crystal does his boring jokes and then it's a night of NOT opening the envelopes because everybody already knows the results.

Yep, that sounds exciting.

Oh touche you wordsmith you.

So what's worse; your example or mine?

Not that it matters a rats arse, you and EJLS and the other elite members of the brains trust will do exactly what you set out to do in the first place.

[cijababe]

Wow, you writers sure are wordy (I always try to say as much as I can with as few words as possible). I'm with Ejls, I support her all the way

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Not that it matters a rats arse, you and EJLS and the other elite members of the brains trust will do exactly what you set out to do in the first place.

Basically, with an attitude like this, no one cares to listen to you. We all get shit in our real lives, and when we come here, in our off time, and put in hours of work trying to better things, only to get shit from you, what the fuck do you think we're going to do, thank you?

No, we're going to say "Fuck you" and do what we think is best, and even if you had a decent idea or two, we're going to be prejudiced against it just because it came from you with your shitty attitude.

So, put that in your pipe and smoke it, motherfucker.

[Prurient Purveyer]

An attitude like what shit for brains?

I am calling it exactly as it is and you are one of the clique so you're as biased as they come.

You can't cope with a contrary view you can't beat so you resort to name calling.

This whole thing is a sham, EJLS and her trusty pals are going to make the rules up as they see fit and that's how its going to be.

[BlackRonin]

Even if that were true, none of the rules seem draconian enough for it to matter anyway. I think the voting mechanism has always worked fine as it was (well, except for sock votes, but there's not much to be done about that), so this strikes me as a case of something unbroken not needing a fix, but by the same token most of the proposed fixes seem like they'd work fine too. I guess it's not that helpful to just say "Oh, anything will do," but that's honestly how I feel.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

An attitude like what shit for brains?

I am calling it exactly as it is and you are one of the clique so you're as biased as they come.

You can't cope with a contrary view you can't beat so you resort to name calling.

This whole thing is a sham, EJLS and her trusty pals are going to make the rules up as they see fit and that's how its going to be.

This IS, after all, a challenge concept that ejls brought to the forum. It has been through ten and a half runs and now (as it again falls to her to host it) we all want to improve it so that it continues into the future.

It was ejls who wanted to make sure all voices were heard before permanent changed were made.

I'm sure, Prurient Purveyer, that yours will be one of the voices taken into consideration.

From what I have gathered, most people will be very happy with the coming CAW challenges.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

An attitude like what shit for brains?

I am calling it exactly as it is and you are one of the clique so you're as biased as they come.

You can't cope with a contrary view you can't beat so you resort to name calling.

This whole thing is a sham, EJLS and her trusty pals are going to make the rules up as they see fit and that's how its going to be.

So why do you persist? You're the loudest complainer, yet, you rarely participate, and when you do have something to say, you're the lone voice of dissent. Can't you get it through your head that you're simply wrong? You sit here and insult Ejls and, well, recently you said 50 people here were wrong and you were right. How self-centered and egotistical can one person be?


God, I've never come across a more obstinate fuck in my life. You make Joe Dirty a welcome sight.

[Hardrive]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Not that it matters a rats arse, you and EJLS and the other elite members of the brains trust will do exactly what you set out to do in the first place.

BRAIN TRUST???

XNXX HAS A BRAIN TRUST???

HD

[sockaraus]

Whats Happening? I can vote but not tell the forum who, or why, I voted for them? Only two people will know who voted and will tell us the number of votes? I am not allowed to vote because of my name. As was proved in the last challenge. If anybody else votes and you do not like their name will you just not count it. Will you inform the thread that you have received a vote but didnt count it because you didnt like the name.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by sockaraus

Whats Happening? I can vote but not tell the forum who, or why, I voted for them? Only two people will know who voted and will tell us the number of votes? I am not allowed to vote because of my name. As was proved in the last challenge. If anybody else votes and you do not like their name will you just not count it. Will you inform the thread that you have received a vote but didnt count it because you didnt like the name.

You have it in one; there is no transparency its all done in secret, by two buddies.

Horse can't understand why I bother when I'm wrong.

But I'm not; after all the input on voting and show or don't show we get ELPs post and its obvious he and the others are stuck on what they have proposed. So back to the "draft" and the driver is the expectation that stories and or writers will be disqualified, that generates the need for polling to be by PM and we have no idea who or what sock vote was accepted for not.

Maybe it will be run according to Hoyle but if we can't see, we can't know.

If it goes ahead as planned then absolutely all the fun in it will be sucked right out of it and the result will be one huge anti climax.

ELP uses the Oscars as a for instance. Fair enough, he has a point but what about elections. Follow the Presidential one or the mid-terms? Watch the polling updates? He doesn't, just reads it in tomorrow's paper.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

An attitude like what shit for brains?

I am calling it exactly as it is and you are one of the clique so you're as biased as they come.

You can't cope with a contrary view you can't beat so you resort to name calling.

This whole thing is a sham, EJLS and her trusty pals are going to make the rules up as they see fit and that's how its going to be.

If that were the case, sir, I wouldn't ask for people's opinions. I want everyone who wants, to have a voice in how to avoid the issues of the last CAW.

But then, you don't care do you? You don't play our reindeer games.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

If that were the case, sir, I wouldn't ask for people's opinions. I want everyone who wants, to have a voice in how to avoid the issues of the last CAW.

But then, you don't care do you? You don't play our reindeer games.

So tell me I'm wrong Madam.

Tell me you aren't just going to go ahead with Plan A.

At the end of it all all you have to do is issue a Post stating the team have looked at all the proposals and the following is confirmed. Only nasty little fault finders like me will bother to read it and it will become law.

And obviously I do care so that was a stupid comment to make and no I have no idea what reindeer games are.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by sockaraus

Whats Happening? I can vote but not tell the forum who, or why, I voted for them? Only two people will know who voted and will tell us the number of votes? I am not allowed to vote because of my name. As was proved in the last challenge. If anybody else votes and you do not like their name will you just not count it. Will you inform the thread that you have received a vote but didnt count it because you didnt like the name.

Official voting will be done by pm, however anyone can announce who they voted for on the thread.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

So tell me I'm wrong Madam.

Tell me you aren't just going to go ahead with Plan A.

At the end of it all all you have to do is issue a Post stating the team have looked at all the proposals and the following is confirmed. Only nasty little fault finders like me will bother to read it and it will become law.

And obviously I do care so that was a stupid comment to make and no I have no idea what reindeer games are.

If you have been following along from the beginning, you would know that it has been revised a couple of times. Nothing said is going to please everyone - but I'm attempting to do something that will be fair and please most. After all, it's not like any of us is going to retire on our winning a CAW.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

So tell me I'm wrong Madam.

Tell me you aren't just going to go ahead with Plan A.

At the end of it all all you have to do is issue a Post stating the team have looked at all the proposals and the following is confirmed. Only nasty little fault finders like me will bother to read it and it will become law.

And obviously I do care so that was a stupid comment to make and no I have no idea what reindeer games are.

Reindeer games are what they wouldn't let poor Rudolph (the red nosed) join in. It was also the title of a 2000 movie starring Ben Affleck.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by ejls

If you have been following along from the beginning, you would know that it has been revised a couple of times. Nothing said is going to please everyone - but I'm attempting to do something that will be fair and please most. After all, it's not like any of us is going to retire on our winning a CAW.

Um, you didn't get the retirement bonus from winning? Geesh. I'll have to talk with the other elitists and get that money rolling your way. :D

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

If it goes ahead as planned then absolutely all the fun in it will be sucked right out of it and the result will be one huge anti climax.

ELP uses the Oscars as a for instance. Fair enough, he has a point but what about elections. Follow the Presidential one or the mid-terms? Watch the polling updates? He doesn't, just reads it in tomorrow's paper.

As far as political elections go, networks used to broadcast exit polls and early returns (from the east which is hours ahead of the west). West coast election officials had that process scrapped because people in California or Oregon would see Bush ahead by a landslide and then either not bother to vote or change their vote to Bush so that they are backing a winner. The proposed CAW changes will also stop that "front-runner" voting (for or against) and make all of this more fair for every entrant.

And isn't this what we (as in all on XNXX) want?

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

You have it in one; there is no transparency its all done in secret, by two buddies.

Horse can't understand why I bother when I'm wrong.

But I'm not; after all the input on voting and show or don't show we get ELPs post and its obvious he and the others are stuck on what they have proposed. So back to the "draft" and the driver is the expectation that stories and or writers will be disqualified, that generates the need for polling to be by PM and we have no idea who or what sock vote was accepted for not.

Maybe it will be run according to Hoyle but if we can't see, we can't know.

If it goes ahead as planned then absolutely all the fun in it will be sucked right out of it and the result will be one huge anti climax.

ELP uses the Oscars as a for instance. Fair enough, he has a point but what about elections. Follow the Presidential one or the mid-terms? Watch the polling updates? He doesn't, just reads it in tomorrow's paper.

Since you have studied the proposal so carefully, I would like you to address each portion, one by one and tell me what you think should or shouldn't be there.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

If you have been following along from the beginning, you would know that it has been revised a couple of times. Nothing said is going to please everyone - but I'm attempting to do something that will be fair and please most. After all, it's not like any of us is going to retire on our winning a CAW.

I have been following from the beginning, we have gone off at tangents at times and changes of a minor nature have been "noted" but the essential format proposed remains unchanged.

I have raised my objections to it; ie lack of transparency in vote counting and no fun in seeing how your story, either as the writer or a supporter, is getting on.

We have made no progress whatsoever because the positions are diametrically opposed.

If I could see any merit in what you're proposing, other than for administrative convenience I would agree with it but I can't so I won't.

Rudolf, isn't he the one they needed to lead the way?

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Rudolf, isn't he the one they needed to lead the way?

He was redeemed in the end but unfortunately shot down, over New Zealand, several years later.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ejls

Official voting will be done by pm, however anyone can announce who they voted for on the thread.

Having read through the thread there's more members wanting open voting (on the forum) than wanting private voting (by PM only).
Why not just have a simple poll and go with whatever the majority vote ?

Would only need 2 options

Public voting, on the forum, for all to see.
Private voting, only by PM, where nobody can see.

[Chagrin]

Originally Posted by m21

Having read through the thread there's more members wanting open voting (on the forum) than wanting private voting (by PM only).
Why not just have a simple poll and go with whatever the majority vote ?

Would only need 2 options

Public voting, on the forum, for all to see.
Private voting, only by PM, where nobody can see.

The reason polling might not work is because polling options cap out at 25 choices, and if there are more than 25 entries, there would need to be two polls. An unscrupulous person might cast two votes.

Of course, I'm thinking that there will always be cheaters whether it's by PM or by polling, with socks and such, so the simplest way to eliminate such problems is to just say "screw the popularity contest" and have a board of members (none of whom have entered) act as judges to determine the winner themselves. Of course, this negates the fun of readers participating, making the contest fairly useless.

So, best bet is to figure out what form of voting makes as many people happy as possible while minimizing cheating. The problem here is one cannot assume there is such an option.

[m21]

Originally Posted by Chagrin

The reason polling might not work is because polling options cap out at 25 choices, and if there are more than 25 entries, there would need to be two polls. An unscrupulous person might cast two votes.

honest question, since i have no idea, has there ever been more that 25 entries before ?

even if there had to be 2 different polls with votes open for all to see then it would be easy to spot if anyone voted twice. Then just discount both of their votes.

[Chagrin]

Originally Posted by m21

honest question, since i have no idea, has there ever been more that 25 entries before ?

even if there had to be 2 different polls with votes open for all to see then it would be easy to spot if anyone voted twice. Then just discount both of their votes.

Yes, there has been before. And if someone casts two votes, which vote should count? neither?

And there will always be socks and other problems. I'd rather just see a fun little contest without having to care about cheaters and such, but it's hard to find the compromise.

[m21]

Originally Posted by Chagrin

Yes, there has been before. And if someone casts two votes, which vote should count? neither?

And there will always be socks and other problems. I'd rather just see a fun little contest without having to care about cheaters and such, but it's hard to find the compromise.

Cheers for the answer.
Neither would count. Make that perfectly clear to everybody from the start.

the only way possible i can see to find a compromise is to go with whatever the majority say. that's why i suggested a vote.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by m21

Having read through the thread there's more members wanting open voting (on the forum) than wanting private voting (by PM only).
Why not just have a simple poll and go with whatever the majority vote ?

Would only need 2 options

Public voting, on the forum, for all to see.
Private voting, only by PM, where nobody can see.

PM so that no votes are missed by skipping a post. A pm vote will be acknowledged with a pm back so that the voter knows it was received.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Another problem with a standard poll for voting is that once it is set, it is set. You can't make changes. So when you have votes that need to be removed because of sock voting, or stories because someone gets banned, it screws the whole CAW up. That's why we came up with a way to get the votes recorded pretty easily without having to deal with double polls, broken polls, etc.

I suggest we try the new method and see how it all works out. If it turns out to be a big flop, we can always go back.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Chagrin

The reason polling might not work is because polling options cap out at 25 choices, and if there are more than 25 entries, there would need to be two polls. An unscrupulous person might cast two votes.

Of course, I'm thinking that there will always be cheaters whether it's by PM or by polling, with socks and such, so the simplest way to eliminate such problems is to just say "screw the popularity contest" and have a board of members (none of whom have entered) act as judges to determine the winner themselves. Of course, this negates the fun of readers participating, making the contest fairly useless.

So, best bet is to figure out what form of voting makes as many people happy as possible while minimizing cheating. The problem here is one cannot assume there is such an option.

I would never want to eliminate the reader from this process. The manual poll worked well, when we were forced to use it after the last issues. There is no was to modify an existing poll and if it has to be redone, as in the last CAW, we would have to notify everyone who voted and give them the option of voting again. If they can't be reached, then some poor writer, who didn't do anything to anyone, may lose votes.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

I have been following from the beginning, we have gone off at tangents at times and changes of a minor nature have been "noted" but the essential format proposed remains unchanged.

I have raised my objections to it; ie lack of transparency in vote counting and no fun in seeing how your story, either as the writer or a supporter, is getting on.

We have made no progress whatsoever because the positions are diametrically opposed.

If I could see any merit in what you're proposing, other than for administrative convenience I would agree with it but I can't so I won't.

Rudolf, isn't he the one they needed to lead the way?

So your complaint is that the poll would not be available and updated in real time, for all to see?

[m21]

Originally Posted by ejls

PM so that no votes are missed by skipping a post. A pm vote will be acknowledged with a pm back so that the voter knows it was received.

Votes couldn't be missed with a poll.

maybe you read my post wrong or something.

[Chagrin]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

I suggest we try the new method and see how it all works out. If it turns out to be a big flop, we can always go back.

Exactly. Why don't we try out these rules for the next CAW, but don't write anything in stone so we can figure out how well it works? If there is not enough support for it (as in, people simply aren't voting anymore) then we can change to something else.

[m21]

after reading the latest posts by ej and horse i can see what the problem is with poll voting now.

but then PM voting is open to abuse by whoever counts the votes and i'm sure there will be plenty saying it is all fixed by the counter(s).

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

after reading the latest posts by ej and horse i can see what the problem is with poll voting now.

but then PM voting is open to abuse by whoever counts the votes and i'm sure there will be plenty saying it is all fixed by the counter(s).

Actually, not. We've come up with a way that will prevent any abuse.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

Actually, not. We've come up with a way that will prevent any abuse.

Would it not be a good idea to let everybody know the way you've come up with.

will stop people like me asking silly questions and maybe also appease some of those against PM voting.

thanks for the replies also, seeing as i'm not a writer and not a regular here in the stories area.

[onehandedtypist]

I propose we sate the most vocal among us. Otherwise, this bickering will continue well into May. If the majority are for the new option, that of voting by PM, we will see how it works out on a trial run.

I am for the new option.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by m21

Votes couldn't be missed with a poll.

maybe you read my post wrong or something.

But the poll did not work because of the issues last time. We're tying to come up with a way so as not to majorly disrupt another CAW, should anyone try anything not quite kosher.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

Would it not be a good idea to let everybody know the way you've come up with.

will stop people like me asking silly questions and maybe also appease some of those against PM voting.

thanks for the replies also, seeing as i'm not a writer and not a regular here in the stories area.

Sure, no problem. An account will be set up just for voting. PMs will be sent to it. The previous CAW winner will have the job of communicating back to the voter that the vote was recorded. ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account as a check and balance against any miscount. Whoever wins CAW 11 will gain access to the account, and so on.

If anyone believes that all previous CAW winners will conspire together to rig a vote...seek professional help, please!

You're welcome about the replies.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by m21

after reading the latest posts by ej and horse i can see what the problem is with poll voting now.

but then PM voting is open to abuse by whoever counts the votes and i'm sure there will be plenty saying it is all fixed by the counter(s).

That's why there are two people receiving the votes and the members will receive a pm acknowledging their choice. The member can also choose to announce to the forum who they voted for.

I like Ed's idea of the current host working with the last host. Then no one can be accused of choosing the "best friend" to help them.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ejls

But the poll did not work because of the issues last time. We're tying to come up with a way so as not to majorly disrupt another CAW, should anyone try anything not quite kosher.

I saw that problem after yourself and horse had explained. thanks.

Would it be a good idea with PM voting to get members to CC their PM's to several counters, including at least one who is in no way connected to the stories board and who has no real connection to any of the writers ?

Two people could easily fix the voting if they wished to (not saying they will).
members might get a PM acknowledgement but no way of knowing if their votes has been actually counted.

also it's been said that the counters can discount a vote if they choose to (for various reasons).

i know it's difficult to come to a perfect solution but just thought i'd raise some points where some members might find fault.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

I saw that problem after yourself and horse had explained. thanks.

Would it be a good idea with PM voting to get members to CC their PM's to several counters, including at least one who is in no way connected to the stories board and who has no real connection to any of the writers ?

Two people could easily fix the voting if they wished to (not saying they will).
members might get a PM acknowledgement but no way of knowing if their votes has been actually counted.

also it's been said that the counters can discount a vote if they choose to (for various reasons).

i know it's difficult to come to a perfect solution but just thought i'd raise some points where some members might find fault.

My understanding is that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account. That will stop any collusion. And, by having one account, it won't make it difficult for someone to PM.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

My understanding is that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account. That will stop any collusion. And, by having one account, it won't make it difficult for someone to PM.

thanks again for answering horse.

i think if that's the case then you're covering all bases. having all previous winners seeing all votes is a great way.
although ej says it is two counters.

now just need to find a way to stop all sock votes. though that is going to be impossible really.

[Cheltenham]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

My understanding is that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account. That will stop any collusion. And, by having one account, it won't make it difficult for someone to PM.

How will we know who we're corresponding with?

Will whoever is at the helm identify themselves or are we talking to sockymcsockerson#1 the vote tallier?

I'm not quite understanding the process.

[sockaraus]

Maybe we could ram in a sub-clause that nobody can vote if they have joined Xnxx after the story challenge has officially started?

[m21]

better still make it voters must have been here 3 months or more and have over 100 posts.

would prevent a large majority of socks.

[wantsomefun]

One idea that was bandied about was to create an account whose sole purpose would be to receive CAW votes. It would have an easily identifiable name, and its address would be included in the CAW threads. ALL previous CAW winners would be sent PMs by whomever initially sets up the account, giving those people (ejls, MrFors, smcaaphd, JayneyRedd, Elaken-Palmer, ahorsewithnoname, and myself, so far) the password to the account.

All of us can check the math (and the integrity) of each other, but probably only the current CAW host (ejls) and one other person would actively tally votes and acknowledge them.

Using the site-provided poll structure was fine. It was easy, it had a few options, but it had two fatal flaws: the 25-story limit, and the fact that it was set for eternity as soon as it was posted.

During CAW #10, two writers got themselves banned, so their entries had to be removed. That blew the poll structure, so counting was done offsite by spreadsheet.

There WERE errors in the running tallies in CAW #10. The fact that TWO people were counting independently of each other made it possible to fix that.

What other option is there? If we go back to the old poll structure, that's fine. Assuming no one fucks it up for the rest of us.

We are less than two weeks away from ejls' stated starting date for CAW #11. Let's get this settled now. We've had input from a lot of different people.

If this doesn't work, we can all work together to come up with something else for CAW #12.

For God's sake, people, it's a fucking challenge -- an unpaid amateur writing competition. ejls said it in her original post for the original CAW -- she double dog dared people to write something. That was basically it.

ELP mentioned the Oscars, when discussing suspense and the thrill of winning, and he's right -- it's kinda cool. But it's really not quite that cool.

Sheesh.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

As far as political elections go, networks used to broadcast exit polls and early returns (from the east which is hours ahead of the west). West coast election officials had that process scrapped because people in California or Oregon would see Bush ahead by a landslide and then either not bother to vote or change their vote to Bush so that they are backing a winner. The proposed CAW changes will also stop that "front-runner" voting (for or against) and make all of this more fair for every entrant.

And isn't this what we (as in all on XNXX) want?

What a wonderfully big place you have there from those redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters...

One time zone here so we get polling counts and Political Scientists postulating outcomes from about an hour in.

The front runner syndrome, yeah possibly but there has been one landslide (yours) most have been fairly close as I recall.

I still think if the idea of just vote for the one you like best were to be encouraged this reluctance to vote would be diminished. Sometimes its just a convenient excuse anyway.