Calling All Writers - Going Forward

[sockaraus]

Originally Posted by m21

better still make it voters must have been here 3 months or more and have over 100 posts.

would prevent a large majority of socks.

Good call m21 but rather think you just picked those numbers at random. Should make it 2 months and three days, and maybe 101 posts

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by sockaraus

Maybe we could ram in a sub-clause that nobody can vote if they have joined Xnxx after the story challenge has officially started?

Originally Posted by m21

better still make it voters must have been here 3 months or more and have over 100 posts.

would prevent a large majority of socks.

Good ideas. How long can we stand the rules to be, though?

Maybe that's something the individual CAW host could decide for him/herself.

Or not. Some people have forum socks a hell of a lot older than some I have in my dresser drawer.

Remember the sockmonster debacle in CAW #7? Even socks created just to join in the fight would now be about nine months old.

As Clarise says, this is why we can't have nice things.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

Since you have studied the proposal so carefully, I would like you to address each portion, one by one and tell me what you think should or shouldn't be there.

Section One Fine as Drafted
Section Two Fine as drafted
Section Three Fine as drafted
Section Four Time frames, Debate
Section Five Don't agree with no posting prior.
Section Six Fine as drafted, though there is deadline so why not just use that.
Seven Debate. If you go with this 'closed to all but the official
counters routine ' interest will die and the result, as I said
before , will be an anti climax.

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

The front runner syndrome, yeah possibly but there has been one landslide (yours) most have been fairly close as I recall.

I still think if the idea of just vote for the one you like best were to be encouraged this reluctance to vote would be diminished. Sometimes its just a convenient excuse anyway.

There's front runner syndrome, and I suspect some readers who come late to the party will actually read only the top two or three stories before voting. The could assume that, since no one else liked a story, they wouldn't either. There could be merit to at least trying the "secret" tally, with results revealed at the end, if suspense is what you're looking for.

Your second paragraph -- yeah. Voting shouldn't be the goal of this whole exercise. Writing and reading should be.





Dusting off my keyboard, looking at all my unfinished stories, deciding which ones I'm going to file away, and which one I'm going to try to finish before May 1st.

Gettin' psyched!

"Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Lookin' for adventure
And whatever comes our way
Yeah Darlin' go make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space"

[crackedjaguar@hotmail.com]

This has become much more technical than it needs to be... sadly people will cheat... I have no idea why people will cheat but they will... wish some people would cheat for me... so that I could totally break the minds and wills of all the other writers... but that won't happen... I think the story needs to be on the stories site... speaking of which I posted a new one... well a new addition to one of my serials... no one sent me nudie pictures to convince me that I should write a particular story... and no ELP and WSF... I do not want nudie pics from either of you....

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

So your complaint is that the poll would not be available and updated in real time, for all to see?

In part, yes. The secrecy aspect or potential aspect concerns me with voting by PM.

It isn't enough to be run fairly and impartially; those interested have to see it is too.

That was why I favor a poll; its a Site driven thing, we may have reservations on who's a sock and who isn't but we can trust the poll to reflect the votes cast.

Speaking of a sock voting; so what. As long as only one vote is cast by the brain concerned there's no reason why that shouldn't stand.


These things should be fun and exciting, especially for the entrants and in the effort to tie it up so no one can cheat it seems to me the fun part is going to go too.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by m21

I saw that problem after yourself and horse had explained. thanks.

Would it be a good idea with PM voting to get members to CC their PM's to several counters, including at least one who is in no way connected to the stories board and who has no real connection to any of the writers ?

Two people could easily fix the voting if they wished to (not saying they will).
members might get a PM acknowledgement but no way of knowing if their votes has been actually counted.

also it's been said that the counters can discount a vote if they choose to (for various reasons).

i know it's difficult to come to a perfect solution but just thought i'd raise some points where some members might find fault.

If the situation you have explained exists, then the voters choices should be made public in the final announcement.

I'm not sure how one could discount a vote - one person/one vote. It's simple math.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Section One Fine as Drafted
Section Two Fine as drafted
Section Three Fine as drafted
Section Four Time frames, Debate
Section Five Don't agree with no posting prior.
Section Six Fine as drafted, though there is deadline so why not just use that.
Seven Debate. If you go with this 'closed to all but the official
counters routine ' interest will die and the result, as I said
before , will be an anti climax.

4. Debate? A month to write. One day/submission to read. Two weekends and the days in between to vote, so that anyone away on vacation at the time will also have the opportunity to vote.

5. Prior posting - we're going back to the original rules of the CAW. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that. It levels the playing field because of the amount of time one can campaign (I hate that) and submissions coming in at the same time are easier to track. If the host were getting paid to do this I wouldn't care, but things have to be easy for them, also.

6. Not sure why this is an issue for you. When all submissions are received they will be posted with all links that were provided to the host. Based on the number of entries, a voting date will be announced.

7. Votes will be submitted to a CAW account that can be accessed by all former CAW winners. Voters will receive confirmation of their vote and will understand that voting by pm allows that their name and vote will be revealed in the final announcement. If they wish to announce who they voted for, that is their option. We're only talking 9 days between start of voting and end. I have no problem waiting to find out who wins. No one is here every single day, not even us. I don't believe a daily update is necessary.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

4. Debate? A month to write. One day/submission to read. Two weekends and the days in between to vote, so that anyone away on vacation at the time will also have the opportunity to vote.

5. Prior posting - we're going back to the original rules of the CAW. I'm not sure why you have a problem with that. It levels the playing field because of the amount of time one can campaign (I hate that) and submissions coming in at the same time are easier to track. If the host were getting paid to do this I wouldn't care, but things have to be easy for them, also.

6. Not sure why this is an issue for you. When all submissions are received they will be posted with all links that were provided to the host. Based on the number of entries, a voting date will be announced.

7. Votes will be submitted to a CAW account that can be accessed by all former CAW winners. Voters will receive confirmation of their vote and will understand that voting by pm allows that their name and vote will be revealed in the final announcement. If they wish to announce who they voted for, that is their option. We're only talking 9 days between start of voting and end. I have no problem waiting to find out who wins. No one is here every single day, not even us. I don't believe a daily update is necessary.

So really you're determined to go ahead with what was proposed originally.

If you're dead set on ruining the thing go right ahead.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

So really you're determined to go ahead with what was proposed originally.

If you're dead set on ruining the thing go right ahead.

Those are the points you object to - I offered explanation and am looking forward to other people's comments.

Please note - I don't need your permission to go right ahead.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

So really you're determined to go ahead with what was proposed originally.

If you're dead set on ruining the thing go right ahead.

Ah yes, because if we don't run it the way that YOU see fit, then it will be ruined.

What an ego.

Why don't you run your own then? If you think the world is just waiting for you to save it, dear paladin, then you go and set up your own contest and make up your rules and promote it and do everything else that is required to ... What's that? Oh. You don't want to do that much work?

So, you'd rather just sit back and whine about how the world will end because a group of experienced writers whose stories have stood the test of time by winning, not to mention the person who also originally founded it, a three-time winner herself, don't agree with you.

Boo hoo.

It's always easier to sit back in the cheap seats and complain about how life isn't fair. If you truly don't care about winning, then none of this should really matter, other than you getting your fifteen minutes of fame.

Fifteen minutes is over. You want more? Write the best story. Until then, it's just noise coming from you.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ejls

If the situation you have explained exists, then the voters choices should be made public in the final announcement.

I'm not sure how one could discount a vote - one person/one vote. It's simple math.

Lets see if i can make it a bit clearer what i'm trying to say.
you say 2 people will be counting the votes.

2 people counting, A + B
i vote, get confirmation vote has been received.
A decides, for any number of reasons, that he'll discount my vote.
A gets B to agree.
my vote is not counted in the totals. nobody would ever know.

it's very easy for just 2 people to rig the outcome of the contest in any way they wished. i'm not saying they would but it's easy and nobody would be any the wiser.

although horse did say "that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account."

if that is the case then there is much less likelihood of any rigging taking place.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

although horse did say "that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account."

if that is the case then there is much less likelihood of any rigging taking place.

That is exactly the case. ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account. The host will count, others will verify, emails will be sent. Without bringing in Brinks Security, I think we have this handled.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

Lets see if i can make it a bit clearer what i'm trying to say.
you say 2 people will be counting the votes.

2 people counting, A + B
i vote, get confirmation vote has been received.
A decides, for any number of reasons, that he'll discount my vote.
A gets B to agree.
my vote is not counted in the totals. nobody would ever know.

it's very easy for just 2 people to rig the outcome of the contest in any way they wished. i'm not saying they would but it's easy and nobody would be any the wiser.

That goes on the assumption that the votes will not be disclosed at the end, that is, who voted for whom. I believe that part is still being mulled over. Maybe that part is left up to the CAW Host to announce at the beginning of their competition. I think some would like to keep the votes private and just issue totals, and others think it would be good to be able to see who voted for them (although there's nothing stopping someone from PMing someone and saying "I voted for you" or posting it in a thread).

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by m21

Lets see if i can make it a bit clearer what i'm trying to say.
you say 2 people will be counting the votes.

2 people counting, A + B
i vote, get confirmation vote has been received.
A decides, for any number of reasons, that he'll discount my vote.
A gets B to agree.
my vote is not counted in the totals. nobody would ever know.

it's very easy for just 2 people to rig the outcome of the contest in any way they wished. i'm not saying they would but it's easy and nobody would be any the wiser.

although horse did say "that it won't just be two people but rather ALL previous CAW winners will have access to the account."

if that is the case then there is much less likelihood of any rigging taking place.

I apologize for being so naive but I just can't imagine any rigging taking place.

[Hornycountryboy]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

I apologize for being so naive but I just can't imagine any rigging taking place.

I have to agree, considering this is just a writing challenge and doesn't have any real prizes besides being host of the next CAW why would anyone rig it? No one is being paid, there is no entry fee that has to be paid to be part of it.

I find when there is money involved there is more cheating, more lying, and more fixing of a vote. However I am a man and I am wrong on a lot of issues so I could be wrong here too.

[Hardrive]

I only scanned through the post and don't know how "set" you are in deciding on the voting system but I still think the best solution is that each story have its own poll and here is why:

1) It is very transparent.

2) If there is a problem with a story and it has to be eliminated, that one story thread can be eliminated without it affecting the other polls.

3) Readers can vote for the stories as they read them and while their impression is still fresh on their mind.

4) Readers don't have to worry about trying to remember which story they liked best after reading them all or having to re-read stories.

4) Readers can vote for more then one story if they like more then one story.

5) Readers can quantify how much they liked the story by giving it points.

6) Writers will get more input from a point system vote even if no comments are left they will still get an impression on how well their story was liked.

7) Writers will know how many people actually read their story. Maybe one of the options can be, "Didn't read, story theme has no appeal for me."

8,) Since reading and voting can be done at the same time, this will give readers more time to read all the stories and it will also cut down on the time it takes to conduct the challenge.

9) The challenge can still generate the excitement of a horse race if a "tally" thread is set up to keep tabs on how the voting is going.

10) All writers will get some votes since, even if they didn't write the best story in the challenge, they will still get some "input" votes. Getting these input will be very valuable to writers and will encourage more to participate.

I hope the "brain trust" has not made up it's mind yet and will give this idea some consideration.

HD

[ELaken-Palmer]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

I only scanned through the post and don't know how "set" you are in deciding on the voting system but I still think the best solution is that each story have its own poll and here is why:

1) It is very transparent.

2) If there is a problem with a story and it has to be eliminated, that one story thread can be eliminated without it affecting the other polls.

3) Readers can vote for the stories as they read them and while their impression is still fresh on their mind.

4) Readers don't have to worry about trying to remember which story they liked best after reading them all or having to re-read stories.

4) Readers can vote for more then one story if they like more then one story.

5) Readers can quantify how much they liked the story by giving it points.

6) Writers will get more input from a point system vote even if no comments are left they will still get an impression on how well their story was liked.

7) Writers will know how many people actually read their story. Maybe one of the options can be, "Didn't read, story theme has no appeal for me."

8,) Since reading and voting can be done at the same time, this will give readers more time to read all the stories and it will also cut down on the time it takes to conduct the challenge.

9) The challenge can still generate the excitement of a horse race if a "tally" thread is set up to keep tabs on how the voting is going.

10) All writers will get some votes since, even if they didn't write the best story in the challenge, they will still get some "input" votes. Getting these input will be very valuable to writers and will encourage more to participate.

I hope the "brain trust" has not made up it's mind yet and will give this idea some consideration.

HD

It sounds, to me, like your intentions (and ideas) are good (and I'm sure that they are). The problem is "keeping it simple". It would be a whole lot of work for the CAW host scanning each of twenty-five stories, every day, to keep track of all the votes. Learned from past lessons, I feel that the current changes will give us all the results we are looking for.

Let's go ahead and try it and see just how it works out.

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

It sounds, to me, like your intentions (and ideas) are good (and I'm sure that they are). The problem is "keeping it simple". It would be a whole lot of work for the CAW host scanning each of twenty-five stories, every day, to keep track of all the votes. Learned from past lessons, I feel that the current changes will give us all the results we are looking for.

Let's go ahead and try it and see just how it works out.

The other potential problem with multiple polls is keeping them all near the top of the page so potential readers/voters will see them. We can't have 20+ sticky threads, so someone would have to take the responsibility for bumping them all at least once a day if not more. Even then, writer A may not get the same level of exposure writer B does -- which would create problems of its own.

The only reason any of this is necessary is to attempt to prevent cheating. It would be nice to say that won't happen, but we've seen that it does. Maybe we should ask the writer who submitted three stories to CAW #10 (one of which she voluntarily pulled) and submitted five votes under her different account identities to explain her motivations. That was CHEATING, according to the rules in place at the time. She surely must have known that she wasn't going to win a monetary prize, that she wasn't going to be invited to a black-tie awards ceremony, and that, in the grand scheme of things, winning or even getting a lot of votes in a CAW isn't THAT big a thing.

Most of what has been discussed in the previous 168 posts on this thread has resulted from that mess.

As ELP said above, let's try it. If it doesn't work, fine. We can't be much worse off than we were before.

[Hardrive]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

It sounds, to me, like your intentions (and ideas) are good (and I'm sure that they are). The problem is "keeping it simple". It would be a whole lot of work for the CAW host scanning each of twenty-five stories, every day, to keep track of all the votes. Learned from past lessons, I feel that the current changes will give us all the results we are looking for.

Let's go ahead and try it and see just how it works out.

.
.
.

My reply to your objection is that if the list of entries has a link to all the stories, the challenge host would have no problem finding and keeping tabs on the voting and neither would anyone else.

That being said, if you guys have already decided on a voting system then there is no point in discussing any new ideas and the host should announce that the issues have all been resolved and go on to post the rules page.

Judging from all the problems and work that a host must put up with... I would like to suggest that the job of hosting the next CAW go to the looser.

Good luck to everyone.

HD

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by Hardrive

.Judging from all the problems and work that a host must put up with... I would like to suggest that the job of hosting the next CAW go to the looser.

Good luck to everyone.

HD

Best idea yet!

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by wantsomefun

Best idea yet!

Another idea...

Just Say Fuck It!

Serious...I've never in my life seen such a simple thing become such a clusterfuck and polarize so many people.

I can promise y'all this...I will NEVER, EVER run this CAW again. If by some chance I win, I will absolutely recuse myself and let the second place winner run it. It's not an honor to run the CAW, it's a fucking curse. The name should be changed from CAW to CLAP.

There's genocide in Africa, starving children, countries in debt in the trillions, racial tensions, oppression, misery, wretchedness, dispair and gloom across the globe..............................and we spend 170+ posts fighting over how to count a vote for a story on a porn site.

How fucked up is that?

@ ejls...darlin', you have more fortitude, intelligence, stamina and beauty than any woman I've known. Bless you for hanging in there through this and all this shit you have to put up with as a moderator of this site. Most here have no clue how lucky they are to have you and the Jamie and SMC.

[m21]

Originally Posted by ELaken-Palmer

I apologize for being so naive but I just can't imagine any rigging taking place.

Originally Posted by Hornycountryboy

I have to agree, considering this is just a writing challenge and doesn't have any real prizes besides being host of the next CAW why would anyone rig it?

Really ?
Even after all the cheating and trying to fix the voting on the last contest?
That clearly showed to everybody that there are some people who will go to any lengths to rig a result.

I don't have a perfect solution that would suit everybody i'm just pointing out some of the pit falls and hoping they get thought about by whoever runs the next contest.

best of luck to whoever it is and may the best writer win.

[ELaken-Palmer]

I think the best way to win, if that's what you want to do, is to write the best story you possibly can and enter it. 99% of the time, it works.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by m21

Really ?
Even after all the cheating and trying to fix the voting on the last contest?

Actually, the person who voted 4 or 5 times voted for different stories each time. It wasn't as if that person was stacking votes for any one person.

[Hornycountryboy]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnoname

I can promise y'all this...I will NEVER, EVER run this CAW again. If by some chance I win, I will absolutely recuse myself and let the second place winner run it. It's not an honor to run the CAW, it's a fucking curse. The name should be changed from CAW to CLAP.

Don't take this the wrong way but if Ejls decided to do that it would have fallen on you this go round.

But I agree with you, I had that same thought at the start of the last one, if I some how and win I don't know if I would like to run the next one, but that was partially the bullshit and not having enough time to run one too.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

Those are the points you object to - I offered explanation and am looking forward to other people's comments.

Please note - I don't need your permission to go right ahead.

No you didn't, you simply said the same thing as before in different words.

No you don't but I thought it wasn't just you I thought there was a group deciding on this.

[Rutger5]

Going forward? Going in circles is more like it. This thread causes more questions to be asked then answered. The reality it seems to me is that CAW is ejls’s baby and she can do whatever she wants with it whether people like it or not. No matter what is decided and how it is decided I predict that not all members will be satisfied with every part of the decision.
　
Now I don’t speak for ejls obviously but I feel she sincerely wanted people’s opinions and for people to have a stake in the contest. However by first saying that a select group had worked to craft the original proposals it gave belief to some that asking for other’s opinions in this thread is nothing but window dressing to seem inclusive when the “brain trust” is deciding all in a backroom somewhere.
　
Ejls- CAW is your creation and ultimately you should decide but you should also be upfront about that and take ownership. The fact is people will “blame you/give you credit for” the final decision anyway and a committee isn’t the best way to make a decision. Its one thing to take someone’s idea or opinion, whether one of the clique of four or any of us common members, because you like it and agree with it and implement it as part of the new rules. Its another to act like everybody has a say because at best its like the council who advises a king. Whether you like it or not CAW is yours - no matter who wins it, no matter whose ideas or suggestions may get used.
　
Biggest problem with all this is it is a forum and people will say whatever on whatever subject and this one is no different. For example I find myself in agreement with HardDrive’s voting system, though in no way am I going by whether implementing it would be easy or effective. It seems the fairest way, as in most CAW’s there is more than one worthy story out of twenty. Maybe I’m wrong but I doubt there are that many voters who have voted for every winning story, which in a sense means most have at least on occasion felt the winning story wasn’t the best.
　
Also his system allows for a transparent voting system which I strongly favor. I can definitively say that if voting is by PM then there is no chance I will even participate as a reader/voter let alone as a writer. Too much “stuff” has happened in the CAW’s for many to have faith in a “trust me” approach. Incidentally even after saying that I actually do believe if CAW 11 has a PM vote it would be fair, but only cuz ejls would be counting the votes and her I do trust. Not saying there are those I specifically distrust, but I don’t trust anyone else. But that’s me, no doubt there are some who don’t trust ejls and either way the best way to avoid the potential or appearance of corruption is to put a system in place where everything is out in the open where all can see, not a select few.

r5

[Prurient Purveyer]

A few comments on Horse's typically erudite observations.

As usual he is unable to answer any of the points I raise accusing me of wanting my fifteen minutes of fame.

Let me assure you I do not want fifteen minutes of fame or anything else.
I have seen enough bad ideas to recognize another one when it comes along horse.Nor am I complaining from the cheap seats. There are no different priced seats here pal; its a forum and all members have a right to their opinion.

You think no one agrees with me? Think again.

And what in God's name is this all previous CAW winners are going to be counters rubbish?

Aren't they going to be entering stories? How can you count the votes of something you are an entrant for and not have a conflict of interest.

Also why former winners?

Answer that horse. Go on, there's a question , answer it.

Why not ,say, respected members of long standing who aren't entrants.

Seeing as how the polling option is obviously a non starter.

[ELaken-Palmer]

I can't believe how these types of threads just go on and on and on. It seems people, on the forums, don't want to write or read or enter or vote in challenges, they just want to argue.

I was fortunate enough to be in the loop as ejls announced that she would move forward with CAW11 and would welcome suggestions for improvements. Many suggestions were made, by former CAW winners, and some were rejected and some were debated and some were accepted.

Then ejls (with some warning her not to open a can of gripes) decided to start this thread to add ALL interested opinions to the mix.

All people needed to do was add their opinions, not argue about them.

I have seen a couple of suggestions (made here on this thread) that have been accepted into the revised CAW concept. This thread has done some good.

Now (again) let's please move forward and await ejls' edition of CAW.

[snowleopard3200]

I was not going to add anything more to the thread here until just now.

CAW 11 should be about the fun of writing an original story in a set time frame; to the best each author is able to do so on the given subject.

Lets all get ready for the CAW 11 and make it so great that not only will it set the new standard for all future CAWs, it will shine as the best ever and allow all of us to enjoy it.

In short its due to commence in a few days, get mentally ready for I do intend to do my best in this one - win or lose does not matter to me, I intend to enjoy the pitting of my skills against the best authors here.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

A few comments on Horse's typically erudite observations.

As usual he is unable to answer any of the points I raise accusing me of wanting my fifteen minutes of fame.

Let me assure you I do not want fifteen minutes of fame or anything else.
I have seen enough bad ideas to recognize another one when it comes along horse.Nor am I complaining from the cheap seats. There are no different priced seats here pal; its a forum and all members have a right to their opinion.

You think no one agrees with me? Think again.

And what in God's name is this all previous CAW winners are going to be counters rubbish?

Aren't they going to be entering stories? How can you count the votes of something you are an entrant for and not have a conflict of interest.

Also why former winners?

Answer that horse. Go on, there's a question , answer it.

Why not ,say, respected members of long standing who aren't entrants.

Seeing as how the polling option is obviously a non starter.

Please read carefully.

The winner (Ejls) will count the votes. She will not participate. To make sure that she doesn't cheat all other CAW winners will have the password to the vote submission account. We will verify the votes. Ejls will PM those who vote to acknowledge said vote.

I initially suggested another Moderator verify the votes. It was discussed and it didn't solve problems of people saying collusion between two people. I came up with having a special vote gathering account, and letting all previous CAW winners have access to verify. Seemed like an easy ways to avoid claims of collusion. Why CAW winners? Seemed as good a selection of members as any. And yeah, sure, it's a little perk for winning.

Anything else?

[Prurient Purveyer]

Please read carefully.

The winner (Ejls) will count the votes. She will not participate. To make sure that she doesn't cheat all other CAW winners will have the password to the vote submission account. We will verify the votes. Ejls will PM those who vote to acknowledge said vote.

I initially suggested another Moderator verify the votes. It was discussed and it didn't solve problems of people saying collusion between two people. I came up with having a special vote gathering account, and letting all previous CAW winners have access to verify. Seemed like an easy ways to avoid claims of collusion. Why CAW winners? Seemed as good a selection of members as any. And yeah, sure, it's a little perk for winning.

Anything else?

Well you don't need Viagra horse; you can make anything hard.

There is no transparency in any of this and " a special vote gathering account". So how are the votes gathered into that account Horse?

If the answer is that someone puts them in there then that's a concern the obvious question being, does she put them all in? Maybe but we don't know.

Regardless of the "little perk" aspect anyone entering should have no part in running the event.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Please read carefully.

The winner (Ejls) will count the votes. She will not participate. To make sure that she doesn't cheat all other CAW winners will have the password to the vote submission account. We will verify the votes. Ejls will PM those who vote to acknowledge said vote.

I initially suggested another Moderator verify the votes. It was discussed and it didn't solve problems of people saying collusion between two people. I came up with having a special vote gathering account, and letting all previous CAW winners have access to verify. Seemed like an easy ways to avoid claims of collusion. Why CAW winners? Seemed as good a selection of members as any. And yeah, sure, it's a little perk for winning.

Anything else?

Well you don't need Viagra horse; you can make anything hard.

There is no transparency in any of this and " a special vote gathering account". So how are the votes gathered into that account Horse?

If the answer is that someone puts them in there then that's a concern the obvious question being, does she put them all in? Maybe but we don't know.

Regardless of the "little perk" aspect anyone entering should have no part in running the event.

Votes are sent by PM to the account. Just a normal PM, a normal account. You want to vote? You send a PM. The host (Ejls, for #11) replies, confirming the vote. The host, who does not enter, is the only person running the event.

[Cheltenham]

Originally Posted by Cheltenham

How will we know who we're corresponding with?

Will whoever is at the helm identify themselves or are we talking to sockymcsockerson#1 the vote tallier?

I'm not quite understanding the process.

It's a good thing I didn't ponder an actual question. Everyone is too busy playing with PP to notice. I think I need to write another gore tale anyways.

This is quite an enviable story thread you have here

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Please read carefully.

The winner (Ejls) will count the votes. She will not participate. To make sure that she doesn't cheat all other CAW winners will have the password to the vote submission account. We will verify the votes. Ejls will PM those who vote to acknowledge said vote.

I initially suggested another Moderator verify the votes. It was discussed and it didn't solve problems of people saying collusion between two people. I came up with having a special vote gathering account, and letting all previous CAW winners have access to verify. Seemed like an easy ways to avoid claims of collusion. Why CAW winners? Seemed as good a selection of members as any. And yeah, sure, it's a little perk for winning.

Anything else?

Well you don't need Viagra horse; you can make anything hard.

There is no transparency in any of this and " a special vote gathering account". So how are the votes gathered into that account Horse?

If the answer is that someone puts them in there then that's a concern the obvious question being, does she put them all in? Maybe but we don't know.

Regardless of the "little perk" aspect anyone entering should have no part in running the event.

Jesus you are a bug in my ass. I don't know for sure how the voting is going to take place, but I am going to explain this scenario one last time.

If we decide to go with this premise:

1. At the end of the reading period, members will have two weekends and 5 weekdays to submit their votes via pm to a CAW account. It is up to them if they wish to announce their vote on the thread. If not, they must realize by placing a vote, it will be revealed at the end of the voting period.

2. Members will receive a pm that their vote has been received and recorded.

3. I will manually tally the votes, as well as a former CAW winner, so that we can be sure no vote was missed. It's an easy check because all members will be able to see that their vote was counted in the reveal thread.

4. At the end of the voting period, the winner will be announced and the entire forum can see who voted. At that time, if anyone feels their vote was missed, I invite them to post the pm I sent them saying their vote had been registered.

This is the scenario, should voting be done this way. Now, do you understand? Or are you still confused?

And by the way - no one, I repeat No One, calls me a liar or a cheat without some real proof. You apparently have a real issue with my honesty. If that's true - then lay your cards on the table because I'm tired of all of your veiled accusations.

[ELaken-Palmer]

Now, let's go forward!

[Cheltenham]

Originally Posted by ejls

Now, do you understand? Or are you still confused?

I just couldn't make sense of how each vote would be communicated. If it's being sent to a "CAW account" that every previous winner has access to, I wasn't comprehending how we'd receive our confirmations. From the newly created account or an actual member's account.

Maybe I should have clarified my intention. I'm sorry for asking a question. It won't happen again, I'll draw conclusions instead.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Cheltenham

I just couldn't make sense of how each vote would be communicated. If it's being sent to a "CAW account" that every previous winner has access to, I wasn't comprehending how we'd receive our confirmations. From the newly created account or an actual member's account.

Maybe I should have clarified my intention. I'm sorry for asking a question. It won't happen again, I'll draw conclusions instead.

Sweetie - I was not addressing you at all. Please note that I was addressing the quoted post. If I have offended you at all, please accept my apologies.

The CAW host will confirm the receipt of your vote, from the CAW account. Please, ask any questions you have. You see, you tend to only ask them once and then process the information, unlike other members here.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Cheltenham

I just couldn't make sense of how each vote would be communicated. If it's being sent to a "CAW account" that every previous winner has access to, I wasn't comprehending how we'd receive our confirmations. From the newly created account or an actual member's account.

Maybe I should have clarified my intention. I'm sorry for asking a question. It won't happen again, I'll draw conclusions instead.

Sorry kitty, I missed your question amidst the other noise.

The host will sign into the "CAW" account, will see your vote, and will reply from that account. The host is going to be the only one sending confirmations out from that account. Make sense?

EDIT: and, what Ejls said too, above me, faster than me.

[Cheltenham]

For a little bit I thought I truly was invisible.

I can find a little forgiveness in my heart. Thanks horse and e.

[Prurient Purveyer]

Originally Posted by ejls

Jesus you are a bug in my ass. I don't know for sure how the voting is going to take place, but I am going to explain this scenario one last time.

If we decide to go with this premise:

1. At the end of the reading period, members will have two weekends and 5 weekdays to submit their votes via pm to a CAW account. It is up to them if they wish to announce their vote on the thread. If not, they must realize by placing a vote, it will be revealed at the end of the voting period.

2. Members will receive a pm that their vote has been received and recorded.

3. I will manually tally the votes, as well as a former CAW winner, so that we can be sure no vote was missed. It's an easy check because all members will be able to see that their vote was counted in the reveal thread.

4. At the end of the voting period, the winner will be announced and the entire forum can see who voted. At that time, if anyone feels their vote was missed, I invite them to post the pm I sent them saying their vote had been registered.

This is the scenario, should voting be done this way. Now, do you understand? Or are you still confused?

And by the way - no one, I repeat No One, calls me a liar or a cheat without some real proof. You apparently have a real issue with my honesty. If that's true - then lay your cards on the table because I'm tired of all of your veiled accusations.

Well gee I'm so sorry.

So we still have nine glorious days of silence while the votes are accumulated and at the end of that when everyone has forgotten all about it the winner is announced. Oh Hoorah.

But now we can who voted for what, well that's progress back to how it was.

OK your honesty.When have I said you were dishonest; the aim is to ensure no one regardless of who it is can manipulate the result and that applies to you or ELP or DC or anyone else.

You are so keen to make this personal; you came up with a set of ideas and I have commented on them. I couldn't careless who thought them up; they affect members in general in respect of the only contest on the Story Forum and my aim from the start is for them to be good ones.

As I mentioned before the idea of a PM voting system is driven by the expectation that one or more stories will be disqualified.

That seems unduly pessimistic to me given that this is a members run Contest and you will run this in your capacity as a member , not as a moderator and won't know if an account is a sock or not so it has to go back to trust.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Prurient Purveyer

Well gee I'm so sorry.

So we still have nine glorious days of silence while the votes are accumulated and at the end of that when everyone has forgotten all about it the winner is announced. Oh Hoorah.

But now we can who voted for what, well that's progress back to how it was.

OK your honesty.When have I said you were dishonest; the aim is to ensure no one regardless of who it is can manipulate the result and that applies to you or ELP or DC or anyone else.

You are so keen to make this personal; you came up with a set of ideas and I have commented on them. I couldn't careless who thought them up; they affect members in general in respect of the only contest on the Story Forum and my aim from the start is for them to be good ones.

As I mentioned before the idea of a PM voting system is driven by the expectation that one or more stories will be disqualified.

That seems unduly pessimistic to me given that this is a members run Contest and you will run this in your capacity as a member , not as a moderator and won't know if an account is a sock or not so it has to go back to trust.

Considering the dishonesty that was displayed in the last CAW, I am not expecting anything. Never did I imagine that anyone would stoop so low as to cheat the way they did. More than one member lied, and lied to everyone involved in the CAW.

As far as my capacity - it's none of your damn business. I will do what has to be done to protect the integrity of the honest and talented writers here. If I sound overly protective of them and the CAW, then so be it. I am.

Too many people have already tried to ruin it, and for what reason? You act like I'm the enemy. Why don't you point your finger at the members who cheated and lied? I don't hear you blaming them for causing any of this.

Rutger5 was right. This is my CAW to run. Nothing you can say will stop me from running it.

[ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by ejls

Considering the dishonesty that was displayed in the last CAW, I am not expecting anything. Never did I imagine that anyone would stoop so low as to cheat the way they did. More than one member lied, and lied to everyone involved in the CAW.

As far as my capacity - it's none of your damn business. I will do what has to be done to protect the integrity of the honest and talented writers here. If I sound overly protective of them and the CAW, then so be it. I am.

Too many people have already tried to ruin it, and for what reason? You act like I'm the enemy. Why don't you point your finger at the members who cheated and lied? I don't hear you blaming them for causing any of this.

Rutger5 was right. This is my CAW to run. Nothing you can say will stop me from running it.

No kidding. He was defending one cheater like she was paying him, and then he has the balls to question you and the rest of us.

[Chagrin]

Originally Posted by Cheltenham

For a little bit I thought I truly was invisible.

I do too! We form our own group noa: Invisble kittehs 4 lyfe!

[Cheltenham]

Originally Posted by Chagrin

I do too! We form our own group noa: Invisble kittehs 4 lyfe!

[m21]

Originally Posted by ejls

Considering the dishonesty that was displayed in the last CAW, I am not expecting anything. Never did I imagine that anyone would stoop so low as to cheat the way they did. More than one member lied, and lied to everyone involved in the CAW.



Too many people have already tried to ruin it, and for what reason? Why don't you point your finger at the members who cheated and lied? I don't hear you blaming them for causing any of this.

thank you for posting that. that is exactly what i said 12 hours ago about members cheating, rigging votes and trying to cheat, but one said they couldn't imagine anyone doing that, another agreed and then another said it was only 1 person who tried to cheat.

i honestly do not envy your job of trying to resolve the way the next contest is run and i certainly wasn't trying to be awkward when i was asking questions and putting forward a few ideas that might help.

you seem to have it just about sorted out now so hopefully this time it all goes well and may the best story win.

[Hornycountryboy]

Originally Posted by m21

thank you for posting that. that is exactly what i said 12 hours ago about members cheating, rigging votes and trying to cheat, but one said they couldn't imagine anyone doing that, another agreed and then another said it was only 1 person who tried to cheat.

i honestly do not envy your job of trying to resolve the way the next contest is run and i certainly wasn't trying to be awkward when i was asking questions and putting forward a few ideas that might help.

you seem to have it just about sorted out now so hopefully this time it all goes well and may the best story win.

With all do respect I agreed because I don't see it happening with this new set up, but now that I have said this someone will consider it a challenge and try to do so.

[ELaken-Palmer]

I fully trust and support the people running the next challenge. The new rules give them the tools they need to keep things fair for all. The old way (using the system poll software) was too inflexible if a cheater were caught. I feel confident that the new setup will work to the benefit of all writers and voters.

And, Prurient Purveyer, I fully agree with ejls when she asks you, "Why don't you point your finger at the members who cheated and lied? I don't hear you blaming them for causing any of this."

Why have you supported the cheaters and not the honest CAW participants?

[wantsomefun]

Points covered:

1. ejls started the whole CAW concept.
2. ejls won CAW #10, so she is the Hostess of CAW #11.
3. The CAW Host/Hostess sets the Challenge theme and spells out the rules.
4. ejls talked about proposed standardized rules (to help to deal with the kinds of shit people did the last time) with several members with whom she communicates periodically.
5. We gave input.
6. She put it all together into a list, and rather than be all draconian and heavy-handed, which she has every right to be, since it was her idea in the first place, she stated this thread.
7. Numerous people have posted to it, some to suggest ideas, some to fight.

Now, for God's sake, let's just post the fucking rules and have ourselves a writing challenge.

You can't please all the people all the time, particularly those who don't participate in the CAWs in any way except to complain.

So, who's ready to write?