White Privilege

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by stumbler

And you're point would be what?

see post #98

[richief]

Originally Posted by baller16

The only one who ever boasts on this shit is you, which is how I know you're full of shit. Nobody who actually grows up in that shit is proud of it or boasts about it.

You can keep pretending all you like but I'll never stop seeing through it.

.

Let me see, I have never boasted of where I come from, unless of course informing you that I live in a working class estate, joined the Army and travelled the world.

Those are not boasts, what you throw out, I will paraphrase a few of your choicer statements.

"I would knock you on your ass"

"Fuck you douche bag, If you had walked where I had walked you would be quiet".

You are nothing but your own dream played out in full on the internet, twenty years ago you would have had to take your Walter Mitty act into the pubs and bars, do you really think you would survive that for longer than a week.

You keep dreaming son, the best you can do is get back to community college and finish your half arsed and pointless degree in journalism and come back when you are a man.

Fleshlight.

[m21]

Originally Posted by baller16

Thank you. You have no idea how good it feels to hear somebody say that. The world is going crazy.

I'm guessing by the "arse" in your location that you're not in the US, so you don't know how crazy shit is getting over here. It's getting to the point where it's impossible to be neutral or even coexist with people of either side of things.

You're quite correct i'm not in the US but i can say for sure i'm not blind to what happens in the world.
European, white and have gone through more than my fair share in life in regards to racism on both sides.

i cannot stand any form of racism, no matter which way it comes from but many think racism only applies to one colour. It doesn't.

where you go wrong though is in the way that you portray yourself on here but that is you and i'm not here to slate you for that because it honestly doesn't bother me in any way.

[AZRIEL]

[virginal vixen]

Originally Posted by ejls

Wow - that was harsh for absolutely no reason.

How was that harsh? I was giving her a compliment.

[SensualRobin]

Originally Posted by virginal vixen

How was that harsh? I was giving her a compliment.

It was harsh to every other poster in this thread.

[virginal vixen]

Originally Posted by SensualRobin

It was harsh to every other poster in this thread.

Well I am pretty positive that everyone here, has some type of sense, it's just her post stood out to me the most.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

see post #98

Ok post #98 is below so now I'm more confused then ever.

So once again what are you talking about Old Tool?

Originally Posted by baller16

The only one who ever boasts on this shit is you, which is how I know you're full of shit. Nobody who actually grows up in that shit is proud of it or boasts about it.

You can keep pretending all you like but I'll never stop seeing through it.

You go ahead and keep on California dreamin', sweetheart.

Except what's hilarious is that's exactly what you are.

LOL

You keep talking that shit, suburbanite. You may fool others like you and you may even fool yourself but you will never fool me and I'm fucking DONE letting you spew your lies.

LOL naaaa don't think so, you fucking fraud.

You've got wannabe harass written all over you.

And where I live, it's well under 100,000. This area includes sections that have 500K+ houses too, so you can figure out just how poor some parts of it are.

Ain't nobody fucking bragging or complaining, or at least I'm not. This thread hasn't been derailed. It's called "White Privilege", well either that shit doesn't exist or people need to stop lumping people of Irish, Italian, and other heritages whose ancestors came over dirt poor with those who are the reason for it.

I'm not going to let liars and frauds claim to be self-made or working class or whatever other shit because it isn't harmless anymore and it's not to be tolerated.

Actually, no, he isn't. Very few people on this forum do speak from experience. It's not exactly difficult to tell.

I've also never once claimed Philly, not a day in my life, on this forum or otherwise. Philly's a whole other bag of worms.

You're from Bucks County. You don't know a fucking thing about things on this side of Philly.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by tenguy

White privilege? Yep, as a race caucasians do enjoy benefits from what Stumbles described as being the "dominant culture", but only in countries, states and regions where they are indeed the "dominant culture".

In other places the peoples of the dominant racial, religious or cultural demographic, enjoy those benefits. The developed world began in the regions that were predominantly white. Since that beginning, wars, both hot and cold, furthered the domination by whites. It was natural that the aura of "white privilege" would appear.

Some people still think that this is the norm, however it is far from prevalent across the globe. Being rich or poor knows no racial distinction, in the US there are far more poor whites than there are poor of any other race. Non-whites have dominated the wave of those who are rising above poverty and cultural persecution, it is not a "white" thing anymore.

But, as Stumbles also illustrated, there are still those who have a notion that everyone who is not poor must have gotten in that position because of privilege. That is pure bullshit and the crux of what some politicians use to gain power; class envy, the exploitation of others ills for ones political gain. There is no progress made when the people of any cultural or economic minority are kept that way by forcing a lack of opportunities for them to rise above it. And there is no progress made when we attempt to bring people out of poverety by granting them a free pass.

Remove the shackles and forced boundries, but do not artificially grant a "privilege", for they will not improve their lot, they will simply be wards of the state.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Just to clarify here tenguy but if you're trying to claim I have a notion that anyone who is rich or even well off got that way through "privilege" you show me that or admit you're just lying again.

The most I've said is that dominate culture advantage and privilege are nearly universal in this world because the dominate culture has the power and tends to pass laws, rules, and regulations that favor them and discriminate against others.

And if you'd pull your head out of that little phony bubble you live in you'd see it happening right now, right in front of you again, with the onslaught on voter suppression laws that discriminate against specific voting minorities.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Ok post #98 is below so now I'm more confused then ever.

So once again what are you talking about Old Tool?

my mistake - I meant to reference post #99

My point being that people who talk about "poor" and "privilege" often fail to take into consideration the whole of the planet, or the arc of civilization. I figured I could get someone to disparage those who are cripplingly poor - so poor it would likely hit them like a brick to the face if they were plunked down in a place like Liberia and asked to live like they do for even a week.

It worked - baller16 bit - he basically dismissed the poorest and least privileged humans on the planet because he can't wrap his brain around anything outside a 50 mile radius of his house. If it weren't so funny, it might be sad.

[Yaztromo]

Statistically white people are privileged, that's a cast iron fact.

It doesn't mean that if you are white then you will definitely be more privileged than your next door neighbour who happens to be not white. It just means that if you look at the average Caucasian as compared to the average person from another race then you will find that they have more money, longer life expectancy and more opportunity in life.

So endeth the sermon.

[baller16]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

Spoken like a true wanna-be poor guy. How dare you talk to other people about never being anywhere - your desperation to be "real" causes you to reek of entitlement and come across as an utterly clueless douchebag.

Folks living in those countries would sell their souls to live anywhere near your "poor" neighborhoods. You have ZERO credibility on this subject - you've spent more money on shoes than truly poor people will earn in their lifetimes!

As usual, you cast your personal viewpoint, based on your painfully limited experience, as an absolute standard and you lack the capable for nuanced thought or an appreciation for scale and ratio. It's no wonder that rigorous study didn't suit you. Now shut up before you embarrass yourself further, ya fake-ass poser.

First of all, I'm not the one from some cushy ass place in the middle of nowhere claiming to be self-made or whatever other bullshit. I fully admit that I have it much better than those who live even a few miles away from me.

They however refuse to do the same. I also sure as shit don't have it better or anywhere near as good as they did/do, and they don't seem to get that. Not every non-city place is all nice and cushy, and if they are, not every one stays that way. When you build communities in a spot that becomes right next to the ghetto, and the ghetto continues to be gentrified, those places don't stay nice for very long.

As for the rest: You don't fucking know me. We may have the same skin color but we are not the same. Your worst public schools out there are probably better than my "private" school was. Around here, 40K is considered middle class, not because of the lower cost of living but because good God damn luck getting a job that pays more than that unless you're a newcomer to the area who had better opportunities. Companies start here, get a bunch of money from the state and local governments and tax breaks, then leave for the pathetic nothing cities of the Sunbelt and West Coast, which were built with OUR tax dollars. We subsidized the highways, your housing, and many many other things that are the only reason most of your cities exist. You literally took our jobs and our federal money. Then you have the fucking nerve to act like you're not privileged or like we're as privileged as you are because of your skin color. I'm not from the Main Line. I'm from a middle class suburban neighborhood that would be considered lower class where you live. We are not the same, and if you're not from the East Coast or Rust Belt then you really don't have a clue.

Originally Posted by richief

Let me see, I have never boastd of where I come from, unless of course informing you that I live in a working class estate, joined the Army and travelled the world.

Those are not boasts, what you throw out, I will paraphrase a few of your choicer statements.

"I would knock you on your ass"

"Fuck you douche bag, If you had walked where I had walked you would be quiet".

You are nothing but your own dream played out in full on the internet, twenty years ago you would have had to take your Walter Mitty act into the pubs and bars, do you really think you would survive that for longer than a week.

You keep dreaming son, the best you can do is get back to community college and finish your half arsed and pointless degree in journalism and come back when you are a man.

Fleshlight.

Actually... you have. You do. You will probably continue to. It's all you ever fucking do. You pretend to be a lot of things you aren't and you use it to brag.

If you really were those things, you wouldn't be such a catty, entitled little bitch.

You aren't from the working class. You've probably never been in the military. You might have traveled the world but the rest is most likely a god damn lie. You speak and act just like every other privileged little brat around the world does. You refuse to accept the fact that you had advantages that plenty of people don't. Who's Walter Mitty again?

Originally Posted by m21

You're quite correct i'm not in the US but i can say for sure i'm not blind to what happens in the world.
European, white and have gone through more than my fair share in life in regards to racism on both sides.

i cannot stand any form of racism, no matter which way it comes from but many think racism only applies to one colour. It doesn't.

where you go wrong though is in the way that you portray yourself on here but that is you and i'm not here to slate you for that because it honestly doesn't bother me in any way.

That's okay. Right now I'm jus saying what I'm saying so I don't care how I come across. Either way, anybody is free to like or dislike me or what I have to say.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that the people who disagree the most are from either the Midwest, the SunBelt, or the West Coast. With few exceptions, over there having white skin does mean you're privileged and things are in fact separated by race. Not the case over here.

[baller16]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

It worked - baller16 bit - he basically dismissed the poorest and least privileged humans on the planet because he can't wrap his brain around anything outside a 50 mile radius of his house. If it weren't so funny, it might be sad.

Actually, it's you who does that.

You try to make every person with white skin out to be just like people from where you're from. Sorry but that's not the case. You live in a fairytale that was brought about by many factors that older, East Coast and Rust Belt areas did not have going for them. Why are white people privileged over there? Because boats didn't carry Irish, Italians, etc to fucking California en masse; they carried non-whites. Those boats were built on the East Coast, by the way. Every single white person over there is there by choice, not stuck. You don't know anything about white poverty or even white struggle.

Originally Posted by Yaztromo

Statistically white people are privileged, that's a cast iron fact.

It doesn't mean that if you are white then you will definitely be more privileged than your next door neighbour who happens to be not white. It just means that if you look at the average Caucasian as compared to the average person from another race then you will find that they have more money, longer life expectancy and more opportunity in life.

So endeth the sermon.

No, certain white people are privileged, and those certain white people are in fact the reason that other "white" people aren't privileged like they are.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by baller16

First of all, I'm not the one from some cushy ass place in the middle of nowhere claiming to be self-made or whatever other bullshit. I fully admit that I have it much better than those who live even a few miles away from me.

They however refuse to do the same. I also sure as shit don't have it better or anywhere near as good as they did/do, and they don't seem to get that. Not every non-city place is all nice and cushy, and if they are, not every one stays that way. When you build communities in a spot that becomes right next to the ghetto, and the ghetto continues to be gentrified, those places don't stay nice for very long.

As for the rest: You don't fucking know me. We may have the same skin color but we are not the same. Your worst public schools out there are probably better than my "private" school was. Around here, 40K is considered middle class, not because of the lower cost of living but because good God damn luck getting a job that pays more than that unless you're a newcomer to the area who had better opportunities. Companies start here, get a bunch of money from the state and local governments and tax breaks, then leave for the pathetic nothing cities of the Sunbelt and West Coast, which were built with OUR tax dollars. We subsidized the highways, your housing, and many many other things that are the only reason most of your cities exist. You literally took our jobs and our federal money. Then you have the fucking nerve to act like you're not privileged or like we're as privileged as you are because of your skin color. I'm not from the Main Line. I'm from a middle class suburban neighborhood that would be considered lower class where you live. We are not the same, and if you're not from the East Coast or Rust Belt then you really don't have a clue.

Oh, you're well known - as a very limited punk with a chip on his shoulder and no stones to do a damn thing about it. You live at the top 5% of current human society - 95% of the other humans on the planet are worse off than you. I know you look around at some shinier neighborhoods in your area and figure you're gutting out a tough life . . . but that's just you deluding yourself . . . again . . . and again. Grow the fuck up.

You're spoiled, full of shit and the queen of whiny brat posers - and you owe an apology to people on this earth that wont eat today, don't have doors on their dirt floor lean-tos, and wonder if they will live through the night. If you're too impotent to recant your dismissal of their condition, you can just fuck off.

[michael saint]

Originally Posted by baller16

No, certain white people are privileged, and those certain white people are in fact the reason that other "white" people aren't privileged like they are.

What's the difference between white and "white"


Or do you just mean that some people have worked hard and done well, while others waste their life on the internet telling their betters how things are in the "real" world.

PS
Before you start, you're not Irish, you're an American.

[baller16]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

Oh, you're well known - as a very limited punk with a chip on his shoulder and no stones to do a damn thing about it. You live at the top 5% of current human society - 95% of the other humans on the planet are worse off than you. I know you look around at some shinier neighborhoods in your area and figure you're gutting out a tough life . . . but that's just you deluding yourself . . . again . . . and again. Grow the fuck up.

You're spoiled, full of shit and the queen of whiny brat posers - and you owe an apology to people on this earth that wont eat today, don't have doors on their dirt floor lean-tos, and wonder if they will live through the night. If you're too impotent to recant your dismissal of their condition, you can just fuck off.

Keep running your mouth all you want, Californian.

You think living in a house makes somebody privileged huh? What if that house is barely standing, cost less than $10,000, has no heat, no anything, and is in one of the most dangerous, drug filled neighborhoods in the country? Still privileged huh? That's the situation plenty of "white" people fucking live in in the US. You don't know anything about that over on the West Coast. On top of that, those people get called racist and discriminated against because of their skin color, called "white trash" or whatever the fuck else. Why is it acceptable when it's somebody who doesn't have white skin but not acceptable when it's somebody who does? When both cases aren't privileged in the least? What if it's instead an example of somebody who's working poor and can barely afford to pay their bills and who came up in such a shitty school district that it's damn near impossible to do anything but fall into the streets? Is that person privileged too? What about if somebody is living paycheck to paycheck and trying to keep their neighborhood from going to shit? Is that person privileged too? I'm sick and fucking tired of people making shit about race just because they can't admit the truth.

The only one dismissing anything is your privileged ass. You want to lump everybody in with you because you can't admit it's got fuck-all to do with skin color. Hmmmm.... who's responsible for those conditions, in both cases, again? Oh that's right! Privileged white people.

[baller16]

Originally Posted by michael saint

What's the difference between white and "white"


Or do you just mean that some people have worked hard and done well, while others waste their life on the internet telling their betters how things are in the "real" world.

PS
Before you start, you're not Irish, you're an American.

White and "white" means the people who are the ones the people who coined the term "white man" were referring to (rich ass Imperialists from places like England, France, Sweden, Spain, Portugal, etc etc and those who benefited from it) and those who have the same skin color but were either discriminated against and even colonized by those types in their home countries (Irish, Scottish, etc) and those who were once they came to the US or Canada or whatever other new "colony". There are of course people of English ancestry who fit into this as well, as people were forced over to the "New World" against their will.

You don't decide what somebody's nationality/heritage/or anything else is, no matter how much you may like to think you do

[michael saint]

Originally Posted by baller16

White and "white" means the people who are the ones the people who coined the term "white man" were referring to (rich ass Imperialists from places like England, France, Sweden, Spain, Portugal, etc etc and those who benefited from it) and those who have the same skin color but were either discriminated against and even colonized by those types in their home countries (Irish, Scottish, etc) and those who were once they came to the US or Canada or whatever other new "colony". There are of course people of English ancestry who fit into this as well, as people were forced over to the "New World" against their will.

Nonsense.

Originally Posted by baller16

You don't decide what somebody's nationality/heritage/or anything else is, no matter how much you may like to think you do

Get an Irish Passport then.

[Rexxracerr]

let me say first that i am sick, and not quite my easy going self today.
I have just been clicking about, reading your bullshit. now a couple of things i would like to say, and i will keep my mouth shut, and let you argue among yourselves, most times when i do post in the gd section it's ignored anyway.

i am a white male, poor, and a hard worker, i hear things like this at work quite a bit, people walking by saying "white power" it's these things that piss me off, thinking they are better than anyone else. i beg to differ. makes me ashamed i am a white man.
i see young white guys trying to act black, no offense baller but isn't baller a black thing, (i'm just saying) white dudes with there pants hanging on their hips, holding their dicks the stupid lingo they use, not that it's a bad thing. ttwo each his own. but if whites are so privileged, why are they trying so hard to be something else.

in my life either you suck or your cool.

p.s. i couldn't care less whether i punctuated correctly, and i don't capitalize.
so don't waste your typing skills to correct me.

[baller16]

Originally Posted by michael saint

Nonsense.




Get an Irish Passport then.

It's only "nonsense" because you don't want to admit it.

Again, you don't decide what anybody's nationality or heritage is. You don't have any fucking power left, buddy. Your continent is a fucking joke compared to ours. You've got no leverage to force the world to play by your rules anymore so shut the fuck up and stop trying to dictate things.

Originally Posted by Rexxracerr

let me say first that i am sick, and not quite my easy going self today.
I have just been clicking about, reading your bullshit. now a couple of things i would like to say, and i will keep my mouth shut, and let you argue among yourselves, most times when i do post in the gd section it's ignored anyway.

i am a white male, poor, and a hard worker, i hear things like this at work quite a bit, people walking by saying "white power" it's these things that piss me off, thinking they are better than anyone else. i beg to differ. makes me ashamed i am a white man.
i see young white guys trying to act black, no offense baller but isn't baller a black thing, (i'm just saying) white dudes with there pants hanging on their hips, holding their dicks the stupid lingo they use, not that it's a bad thing. ttwo each his own. but if whites are so privileged, why are they trying so hard to be something else.

in my life either you suck or your cool.

p.s. i couldn't care less whether i punctuated correctly, and i don't capitalize.
so don't waste your typing skills to correct me.

They're not acting black. They're acting ghetto. You can't act a race, and it didn't start with black people.

To answer your other question: They try to act like something they're not because they're not anything special.

[michael saint]

Originally Posted by baller16

They're not acting black. They're acting ghetto. You can't act a race, and it didn't start with black people.

To answer your other question: They try to act like something they're not because they're not anything special.

Well, I defer to your greater experience on that one.


"Everything I said about baller was truth, from his life, to the things he could do, who he was, etc. Baller is somebody who I went to HS and CC with for the short time I was there. He grew up in a part of Upper Darby township and moved to Drexel Hill, a few streets away from me actually, when he started high school. I found out his life/story from a friend of mine who is a friend of his. He is every bit the baller I made him out to be."

"In other words, there is a real baller16. It just isn't me is all."

I almost feel pity for you.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by baller16

Keep running your mouth all you want, Californian.

You think living in a house makes somebody privileged huh? What if that house is barely standing, cost less than $10,000, has no heat, no anything, and is in one of the most dangerous, drug filled neighborhoods in the country? Still privileged huh? That's the situation plenty of "white" people fucking live in in the US. You don't know anything about that over on the West Coast. On top of that, those people get called racist and discriminated against because of their skin color, called "white trash" or whatever the fuck else. Why is it acceptable when it's somebody who doesn't have white skin but not acceptable when it's somebody who does? When both cases aren't privileged in the least? What if it's instead an example of somebody who's working poor and can barely afford to pay their bills and who came up in such a shitty school district that it's damn near impossible to do anything but fall into the streets? Is that person privileged too? What about if somebody is living paycheck to paycheck and trying to keep their neighborhood from going to shit? Is that person privileged too? I'm sick and fucking tired of people making shit about race just because they can't admit the truth.

The only one dismissing anything is your privileged ass. You want to lump everybody in with you because you can't admit it's got fuck-all to do with skin color. Hmmmm.... who's responsible for those conditions, in both cases, again? Oh that's right! Privileged white people.

Once again, your limited and prejudiced mind can not break out of the fantasy world you paint for yourself. Can you grasp anything outside your sphere of experience . . . anything at all? You make yourself more ridiculous with every post.

How about answering one simple question - are the people living in your poorest of 'poor' neighborhoods more or less privileged than the average citizen of the Dem Rep of Congo. It's a really simple either/or question - who is better off?

. . . try not to hurt yourself figuring it out.

[Rexxracerr]

good point baller.
They try to act like something they're not because they're not anything special
thanks

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

my mistake - I meant to reference post #99


My point being that people who talk about "poor" and "privilege" often fail to take into consideration the whole of the planet, or the arc of civilization.

I didn't. I've consistently said dominate culture prejudice and privilege is a global phenomenon, and certainly relative in terms of developed as opposed to undeveloped countries.

So what I was referring to was our standard of poverty not starving people in undeveloped countries.

Originally Posted by Old Tool

I figured I could get someone to disparage those who are cripplingly poor - so poor it would likely hit them like a brick to the face if they were plunked down in a place like Liberia and asked to live like they do for even a week.

And is that the solution for us. Just start allowing people to starve and die in the streets so the top 1% can increase their wealth even more than the current 270%

Originally Posted by Old Tool

It worked - baller16 bit - he basically dismissed the poorest and least privileged humans on the planet because he can't wrap his brain around anything outside a 50 mile radius of his house. If it weren't so funny, it might be sad.

Glad I could help but maybe you should have addressed it to him.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I didn't. I've consistently said dominate culture prejudice and privilege is a global phenomenon, and certainly relative in terms of developed as opposed to undeveloped countries.

So what I was referring to was our standard of poverty not starving people in undeveloped countries.

How nice for us that we can define "poverty" in such a way, eh? My point is that you can not rationally carve out a segment of the planet and effectively claim "poverty" for those on the low end . . . unless your intent is to deceive. If you're not including the entire human experience, then I submit you're not being honest about privilege or poverty.

Originally Posted by stumbler

And is that the solution for us. Just start allowing people to starve and die in the streets so the top 1% can increase their wealth even more than the current 270%

Glad I could help but maybe you should have addressed it to him.

What a silly rhetorical question I think we should be working to raise the opportunity and resources for all people, regardless of where they fall on your arbitrary hierarchy. But when somebody making $15,000 a year, struggling to pay debts and living in a cramped apartment starts crying "poverty", they need a serious wake up call.

So, stumbler - on a global basis where would you draw the line at getting, or paying for, any kind of public assistance? Would you use annual income as your basis? How about net worth? How would you scale it to determine which of the privileged would pay for supporting the not-so-privileged?

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by baller16

The only one who ever boasts on this shit is you, which is how I know you're full of shit. Nobody who actually grows up in that shit is proud of it or boasts about it.

You can keep pretending all you like but I'll never stop seeing through it.

You go ahead and keep on California dreamin', sweetheart.

Except what's hilarious is that's exactly what you are.

LOL

You keep talking that shit, suburbanite. You may fool others like you and you may even fool yourself but you will never fool me and I'm fucking DONE letting you spew your lies.

LOL naaaa don't think so, you fucking fraud.

You've got wannabe harass written all over you.

And where I live, it's well under 100,000. This area includes sections that have 500K+ houses too, so you can figure out just how poor some parts of it are.

Ain't nobody fucking bragging or complaining, or at least I'm not. This thread hasn't been derailed. It's called "White Privilege", well either that shit doesn't exist or people need to stop lumping people of Irish, Italian, and other heritages whose ancestors came over dirt poor with those who are the reason for it.

I'm not going to let liars and frauds claim to be self-made or working class or whatever other shit because it isn't harmless anymore and it's not to be tolerated.

Actually, no, he isn't. Very few people on this forum do speak from experience. It's not exactly difficult to tell.

I've also never once claimed Philly, not a day in my life, on this forum or otherwise. Philly's a whole other bag of worms.

You're from Bucks County. You don't know a fucking thing about things on this side of Philly.

Get the fuck out you phony ass fraud...

Originally Posted by baller16

It's time to come clean. I'm a fraud. Pretty much everything I've said on here is a lie. I'm not some amazing basketball player. I'm not a workout guru with an amazing body. I'm not even all that tough considering I've never been in a fight in my life. I've never been in any kind of higher-track classes and I don't know much at all.

In reality, I'm a floundering journalism student who plays basketball and other sports in my free time, and not all that well either. I wanted to pretend to be something I'm not, because I wish I hadn't quit sports at such a young age, among other reasons. I've been tall, skinny, weak, and out of shape my whole life. I've lived in the place billblonde says I'm from since I was about one. I wanted to pretend I was from Upper Darby because it's not as soft as this place I've lived in pretty much my whole life, and because I'm so generic and not "real" like those people are. I copied the way I talk and act from the people who actually live in the areas I've played basketball in with friends the few times I've actually been out of this cushy town. I've never been in a relationship in my life unless you count the time I was "with" Lisa. I'm a loser who's never worked a day in his life and fucked up the opportunities he was given.


You all have had me pegged this whole time. It's time for me to finally admit it.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by baller16

It's time to come clean. I'm a fraud. Pretty much everything I've said on here is a lie. I'm not some amazing basketball player. I'm not a workout guru with an amazing body. I'm not even all that tough considering I've never been in a fight in my life. I've never been in any kind of higher-track classes and I don't know much at all.

In reality, I'm a floundering journalism student who plays basketball and other sports in my free time, and not all that well either. I wanted to pretend to be something I'm not, because I wish I hadn't quit sports at such a young age, among other reasons. I've been tall, skinny, weak, and out of shape my whole life. I've lived in the place billblonde says I'm from since I was about one. I wanted to pretend I was from Upper Darby because it's not as soft as this place I've lived in pretty much my whole life, and because I'm so generic and not "real" like those people are. I copied the way I talk and act from the people who actually live in the areas I've played basketball in with friends the few times I've actually been out of this cushy town. I've never been in a relationship in my life unless you count the time I was "with" Lisa. I'm a loser who's never worked a day in his life and fucked up the opportunities he was given.


You all have had me pegged this whole time. It's time for me to finally admit it.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

baller16's confession revealed strength of character, but posters with no character hold it against him.

[SensualRobin]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

baller16's confession revealed strength of character, but posters with no character hold it against him.

It's more like pointing out him contradicting himself now in comparison to his past confession.

[DS1980]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

baller16's confession revealed strength of character.

Except that he tries to continue the charade despite already admitting he is a fraud.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

baller16's confession revealed strength of character, but posters with no character hold it against him.

"strength of character"????? More like he revealed his severe mental problems.

I'm sure you can relate......

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

baller16's confession revealed strength of character, but posters with no character hold it against him.

I want you to tell me how nice I look, DL . . . I'm jealous of all the other fellows you swoon over.

I took this 15 minutes ago, just for you!

[baller16]

THERE IS NO FUCKING WE. Get that through your thick fucking skull, Californians, Sunbelters, West Coasters, etc.

You think because you know nothing about real poverty that nobody in the US and certainly not anybody with white skin does. That's horseshit. Maybe YOU should take a look outside of the fantasy land that WE subsidized through our tax dollars, through losing our jobs, our opportunities, and our federal funding, and get a damn clue.

You always bring up people outside of the US and who don't have white skin because you can't admit the truth that it's got nothing to do with race, that we're not all like you.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by baller16

THERE IS NO FUCKING WE. Get that through your thick fucking skull, Californians, Sunbelters, West Coasters, etc.

You think because you know nothing about real poverty that nobody in the US and certainly not anybody with white skin does. That's horseshit. Maybe YOU should take a look outside of the fantasy land that WE subsidized through our tax dollars, through losing our jobs, our opportunities, and our federal funding, and get a damn clue.

You always bring up people outside of the US and who don't have white skin because you can't admit the truth that it's got nothing to do with race, that we're not all like you.

Having you tell anybody else on this earth to get a clue is priceless - you are a borderline sociopath with your adherence to this false poverty hierarchy you've made up.

Please - keep avoiding my very simple question because it just reinforces the state of angry denial you're in . . . are the people living in your poorest of 'poor' neighborhoods more or less privileged than the average citizen of the Dem Rep of Congo? It's a really simple either/or question - who is better off?

[SensualRobin]

Anyways...

I didn't mean to stray off topic, but really what is to be expected from a forum full of people with clashing ideas, even strong worded and very defensive about their point of view? You argue the main topic, but when you're attacked on the legitimacy of your own point of view it's all down hill and easy to get the thread a bit muddied.

Here's my attempt to keep on track.

If White privilege does exist, what is to stop me from saying there is a Jewish privilege? Or some other race? I was just reading an article that brought this up:

The median income of Jewish Americans is approximately twice that of their non-Jewish countrymen. Additionally, while only about 40 percent of high-school graduates attend college, the rate among Jews is 85 percent. Jews also occupy positions of power at a rate greatly in excess of their two percent of the population. Yet should we speak of "Jewish privilege"? It would be more instructive to note a secret of Jewish people's success: They place great emphasis on education and workplace achievement.

And what about blacks' dominance in mainstream sports? Wouldn't it be ridiculous to talk about "black athletic privilege"?

Read all of it here

As for baller16's ideas between California and Philadelphia, yeah their crime rates are higher. There's no denying that after a bit of research. I'm not claiming to be able to take care of myself in such a neighborhood; I couldn't by myself in some parts of LA. I'm glad I live where I do.

On the same token, I've been dirt poor. I've gone hungry for a couple days at a time. I was saved from the homelessness my mother and sister went through because of my friends parents for six months. We've never gotten any sort of assistance from the government because my mother worked and still works very hard to make sure that doesn't need to happen, but bills are still juggled. She has too much pride to try to receive anything from the government.

I now go to college and I do receive money from the state in order to attend school. I work two jobs, and I'm grateful for them. I pay rent. I avoid areas where I don't belong because it's not safe for a woman to be there. Do I know comfort? Yeah. Do I know 'American Poverty'? Yes.

I don't see myself as privileged, and that's just how that was supposed to tie in. Maybe others do? That's fine. No need to argue an opinion any further.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

How nice for us that we can define "poverty" in such a way, eh? My point is that you can not rationally carve out a segment of the planet and effectively claim "poverty" for those on the low end . . . unless your intent is to deceive. If you're not including the entire human experience, then I submit you're not being honest about privilege or poverty.

Sure you can Old Tool which just goes to show you and Clarise ought to get it on in her,his, its plastic bubble.

That's poverty you say? I say again you've never experienced it (poverty that is) a day in your life and have no idea how poverty is not a natural state but something more heaped on those you wish to Martyr. Bullshit Old Tool given minimal natural resources and no geo-political or climatic upheavals to deal with those you claim are poor can survive just fucking fine you pampered all mighty you.

They can live perfectly fine on the natural resources available to them but none of that works when you're running for your life from geopolitical and climatic threats.

But you would invoke them I guess to tell people like me that my experience doesn't count because I've never been an exploited African.

What a crock of bullshit and outrageous extrapolation is what I'd say Old Tool (and just did).

Originally Posted by Old Tool

What a silly rhetorical question I think we should be working to raise the opportunity and resources for all people, regardless of where they fall on your arbitrary hierarchy. But when somebody making $15,000 a year, struggling to pay debts and living in a cramped apartment starts crying "poverty", they need a serious wake up call.

And when that's the case I'd agree Old Tool. But since it ain't that's just your invention and I thought you were opposed to such unfounded stereotypes?

Originally Posted by Old Tool

So, stumbler - on a global basis where would you draw the line at getting, or paying for, any kind of public assistance? Would you use annual income as your basis? How about net worth? How would you scale it to determine which of the privileged would pay for supporting the not-so-privileged?

I'd do it just about like we have for the past 60 years Old Tool. It seems to be working really good and I don't believe that the dire predictions can be easily fixed even if you do have to pay more "taxes."

But let's get back to the central question. In the United States today is there any such thing as White Privilege? Is there any such thing as discrimination? How about racism? How about the dominate culture getting to write the laws in their favor? Anything on that? Is our criminal justice system fair? In there an advantage there? How come you always get to pretend you're so superior everyone had to accept your challenges but you never have to accept or even directly answer any questions you just get to make pronouncements?

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by stumbler

That's poverty you say? I say again you've never experienced it (poverty that is) a day in your life and have no idea how poverty is not a natural state but something more heaped on those you wish to Martyr. Bullshit Old Tool given minimal natural resources and no geo-political or climatic upheavals to deal with those you claim are poor can survive just fucking fine you pampered all mighty you.

Do you try to be as convoluted as possible when you type this stuff out?

Here, let me lay it out for you . . . according to standards established here in the USA, I was very poor (significantly below the official poverty line) for a little over 6 years of my life, during a time I was supporting a wife and two children. I never once classified myself that way, and believed I would eventually make my way out of that circumstance. I have. I make no apologies for doing so.

Originally Posted by stumbler

They can live perfectly fine on the natural resources available to them but none of that works when you're running for your life from geopolitical and climatic threats.

"Let them eat cake!" says King Stumbler, the Clueless.

Originally Posted by stumbler

But you would invoke them I guess to tell people like me that my experience doesn't count because I've never been an exploited African.

What a crock of bullshit and outrageous extrapolation is what I'd say Old Tool (and just did).

I invoke it because you're a whiner. You are what baller16 will become 45 years from now - a thinly veiled moralizer that is so self-absorbed with your own personal experience that you can't muster empathy for those much, MUCH less well off than you.

Can you answer the question I put to baller16 - In today's world, are the poorest of our poor better off or worse off than the average citizen of the Dem Rep of Congo? I know you wont answer this question, but it's fun for me to put it out there anywho.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

I want you to tell me how nice I look, DL . . . I'm jealous of all the other fellows you swoon over.

I took this 15 minutes ago, just for you!

You sure had me fooled. I thought you were an old man who was as ugly as your disposition.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by stumbler

But let's get back to the central question. In the United States today is there any such thing as White Privilege? Is there any such thing as discrimination? How about racism? How about the dominate culture getting to write the laws in their favor? Anything on that? Is our criminal justice system fair? In there an advantage there? How come you always get to pretend you're so superior everyone had to accept your challenges but you never have to accept or even directly answer any questions you just get to make pronouncements?

Yes, I believe there is a distinct advantage to being white in the United States right now. Discrimination and racism exists across the board - through every socioeconomic level in this country. I have no idea how you are defining the "dominant culture", so I can't speak to that question. The criminal justice system is fair - the application of that system has flaws - but that will always be the case because it is humans operating it. I'm not pretending.

Would you like some facts to ignore that demonstrate the truth behind my "pronouncements"?

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

You sure had me fooled.

There was little challenge in that

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

I thought you were an old man who was as ugly as your disposition.

. . . thanks for demonstrating for the class what 'projecting' means

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

. . . thanks for demonstrating for the class what 'projecting' means

Even those who dislike me, or at least many of my opinions, have commented on my courtesy. Occasionally they complain about what they call my "passive aggression," but that is actually a back handed compliment.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Even those who dislike me, or at least many of my opinions, have commented on my courtesy. Occasionally they complain about what they call my "passive aggression," but that is actually a back handed compliment.

I'm sure you find yourself quite charming in your mind's eye - congratulations!

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

I'm sure you find yourself quite charming in your mind's eye - congratulations!

I will have to endure life without your admiration. Pity.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

I will have to endure life without your admiration. Pity.

Says who? I admire your sociopathic adherence to the mythologies you have created for yourself - that kind of rigorously narrow thinking is very difficult for rational people to accomplish.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by virginal vixen

How was that harsh? I was giving her a compliment.

And insulted those of us who were part of the conversation. That's what's harsh.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Old Tool

Says who? I admire your sociopathic adherence to the mythologies you have created for yourself - that kind of rigorously narrow thinking is very difficult for rational people to accomplish.

Even if deidre79 and Carrie Joslin were men that should be of no concern to you. I would rather be known for my courtesy, my literacy, and my learning than my propensity to build myself up by tearing others down.

[suri]

Originally Posted by ejls

And insulted those of us who were part of the conversation. That's what's harsh.

Yeah .. Vixen you started this thread .. are you planning on posting your opinion?

[baller16]

Originally Posted by SensualRobin

Do I know 'American Poverty'? Yes.

No, actually you don't. Allow me to educate you as the last thing I do on this forum. Make sure Old Tool pays attention too.

http://www.phillyskyline.com/chester/index1.htm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...NJ_poverty.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3244/...5415d9bac7.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1-xvEOICRw...iladelphia.jpg
http://greenlimbs.com/the-big-number-in-philadelphia/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/81...bf24268b22.jpg

Just for you Old Tool, a white ghetto: http://pysp.org/wp-content/themes/py...deshow/003.jpg

The above links are to pictures of neighborhoods that are only a part of one metro, and neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, and Detroit possibly make it look like Disneyland, but compared to your "hoods" it's a whole other world. Living in the same metro as these neighborhoods and being able to drive into some of them fairly easily has ensured that I never forget how lucky and better off than these people I am. Clearly that is not the case with some of you. Therefore, you need to be reminded of what real US poverty is. Nobody's trying to act like it's anything like the third world, but don't you ever say people in this country don't know about real poverty. That's not even the projects either.

Know your place and stop trying to talk like you know something.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Even if deidre79 and Carrie Joslin were men that should be of no concern to you. I would rather be known for my courtesy, my literacy, and my learning than my propensity to build myself up by tearing others down.

I wasn't even talking about your faux "girl" friends - wow, somebody has a complex I guess. I was referring to your fantasies about the black man being "less than..." - you know, something pertaining to this thread.

Go on, Bell Curve Boy, lay it on me once again

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by baller16

No, actually you don't. Allow me to educate you as the last thing I do on this forum. Make sure Old Tool pays attention too.

Just for you Old Tool, a white ghetto: http://pysp.org/wp-content/themes/py...deshow/003.jpg

The above links are to pictures of neighborhoods that are only a part of one metro, and neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, and Detroit possibly make it look like Disneyland, but compared to your "hoods" it's a whole other world. Living in the same metro as these neighborhoods and being able to drive into some of them fairly easily has ensured that I never forget how lucky and better off than these people I am. Clearly that is not the case with some of you. Therefore, you need to be reminded of what real US poverty is. Nobody's trying to act like it's anything like the third world, but don't you ever say people in this country don't know about real poverty. That's not even the projects either.

Know your place and stop trying to talk like you know something.

Nice - trying to tap dance your way out of your previous position I think you said that my comparison of poverty in the US to poverty in other places in the world was a "cop out", right? What a putz, geeeeez.

You want to play picture games, OK - would you rather live in one of the places you posted pics of, or would you rather live here: