Guns out of control

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by SexLover32

And last I checked, it's a gun that made us what we are today, and continues to keep us the way we are, living the American dream. Not a doubt in my mind that American Exceptionalism exists as much as it ever did.

One of the things that is exceptional about the Untied States is an exceptionally high murder rate compared with other affluent democracies, and many countries with lower standards of living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

[stumbler]

You know even in an election year politicians might jump on the gun control bandwagon when they see these numbers.

Aurora And The Media Myth Of Public Opposition To Gun Control

Note that this appetite among the public for stronger gun laws includes the support of more than three in five for reinstating the nationwide ban on assault weapons, which expired in 2004. One of the weapons used by the alleged shooter was an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle, which reportedly may have been banned under that law. Members of the House and Senate have called for bringing back the ban in response to the shooting. They enjoy the support of 62 percent of Americans, including 61 percent of Independents and 49 percent of Republicans, according to a June 2011 Time magazine poll.
Recent polls indicate that many other laws seeking to bolster gun violence prevention enjoy public support, including:

• 86 percent support requiring all gun buyers to pass a criminal background check, no matter where they purchase the weapon or from whom they buy it. (January 2011 American ViewPoint/Momentum Analysis poll)
• 63 percent favor a ban on high capacity magazines or clips. (January 2011 CBS News poll)
• 69 percent support "limiting the number of guns a person could purchase in a given time frame." (April 2012 Ipsos/Reuters poll)
• 66 percent support requiring gun owners to register their firearms as part of a national gun registry. (January 2011 American ViewPoint/Momentum Analysis poll)
• 88 percent support banning those on the terrorist watch list from purchasing guns. (January 2011 American ViewPoint/Momentum Analysis poll)

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07...osition/187276

[McDick]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You know even in an election year politicians might jump on the gun control bandwagon when they see these numbers.

Aurora And The Media Myth Of Public Opposition To Gun Control
[/LIST]http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07...osition/187276

It looks like we're on the same page here. I too hope that obama and the Democrats make gun control an issue during this year's election.

[richief]

I thought convicted criminals were already barred from owning a small arm.

Any fool who jumps up and shouts for gun control will lose votes, you will hear a lot of politicians telling you all about the party line on guns with a lot of prevarication and obfuscation, not one will openly admit to wanting some sort of licensing system or a ban on breach loading artillery pieces.


Edit.

Can someone check and see if I can get a fully functional M107. Thanks

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by stumbler

I just wanted to get this one in quick somewhere because its such a great example of how the conservative/Republican/Tea Party will lie in the face of massacres to do the bidding of the NRA and ALEC.

Which probably kills more people than the guns do.

John McCain Ludicrously Cites 'Norway Tragedy' as Proof Against Gun Control




http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato...ites-norway-tr

To be fair, he did not say "guns were banned in Norway, and Breivik illegally owned the weapons that killed those people"

He said "gun control laws are very strict in Norway." By European standards they are pretty tame. but when you compare them to the US they are strict, You have to go through a lot more hassle to obtain a license, and you have to go through a lot more procedures in order to obtain firearms.

Tighter restrictions does not mean someone cannot obtain guns. In the UK Pistols are completely outlawed, even to the police. (exc Northern Ireland) Not that I want to, but if I tried, I could probably get a pistol within 6 hours, Banning guns does not make guns disappear, at least from the hands of criminals.

If someone wants to kill a large group of people, they are going to do it whether they can get a gun or not. Anyone with a basic knowledge of chemistry or access to the internet, some store bought chemicals and a bag of nails or ball bearings could knock something up in a few hours that could kill and maim scores instantly.

It's a sad state of affairs I know, there are some sick messed up people in this world that have no human empathy, and have a warped view of reality. But you just can't legislate these people away, they obviously have no care for the law.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You know even in an election year politicians might jump on the gun control bandwagon when they see these numbers.

Aurora And The Media Myth Of Public Opposition To Gun Control
[/LIST]http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07...osition/187276

You know what stumbler? Seeing you exhibit abnormal and often hatful behavior on this site is evidence someone like you should not own a gun or have access to them.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

You know what stumbler? Seeing you exhibit abnormal and often hatful behavior on this site is evidence someone like you should not own a gun or have access to them.

I would like to disagree because I like the old stumble guy, but he sometimes flames me without provocation.

[richief]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

I would like to disagree because I like the old stumble guy, but he sometimes flames me without provocation.

Where you see flames most people see;

Discourse
Dialogue
Discussion
Disagreements.

Is it an insecurity issue, because there are people trained to help.

[imova]

Originally Posted by richief

I thought convicted criminals were already barred from owning a small arm.

Any fool who jumps up and shouts for gun control will lose votes, you will hear a lot of politicians telling you all about the party line on guns with a lot of prevarication and obfuscation, not one will openly admit to wanting some sort of licensing system or a ban on breach loading artillery pieces.


Edit.

Can someone check and see if I can get a fully functional M107. Thanks

They are. As soon as they exit the prison system most of their rights are stripped away.

As far as the M107, are we talking field artillery piece, or the M107A1 .50 Caliber Rifle?

[Greendragon]

Guns are never out of control, its people that are out of control. With out a person controlling the weapon the only thing you have is a very expensive paper weight.You should not make a judgment against a weapon, you should judge the person using the weapon without a person controlling it is nothing but an object.
If you want to get down the fax of the mater even a pencil can be used to kill someone. Do not judge an object. Judge the user when it comes down to it were all responsible for our own individual actions. If some sick perverted individual wants to pretend that he's a person in the movie or TV show and go out on a shooting spree and kill.There's not much you can do to stop a determined individual. Outlawing a gun or weapon is not going to stop the individual.The only thing that we can do is to is be vigilant and aware of her surroundings. Just think what would've happened if one person in the front row had a concealed carry permit and shot the gunman before he could kill anyone would that have been wrong at that time I don't think so. The person that committed this horrible act in my opinion's a complete total coward and is unable to deal with society as a whole.What we should do is take a closer look at this person's family, teacher, educators,friends and their guidance counselors. How could they had missed this, someone going through this kind of personal insanity gives off warning signs. How could they miss those warning signs?

[AZRIEL]

Sweater-Kitten-Jihad.jpg

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

If you do a little research and you will find that the majority of serial killers were raised in some type of Christian environment. As for mass murderers the monotheistic religions have no piers, Hitler was Christian, Catholic Crusades, modern day Muslim suicide bombers.

Do you see the common thread here.

Adolf Hitler was raised as a Roman Catholic. However, by the time he moved to Vienna as a young man he had lost his faith.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

Not to start a fight but.

http://www.infidels.org/library/hist...wn/hitler.html

Again....Hitler was NOT a Christian and it torques my tail to hear anyone spout that utter bullshit...he was evil personified.

[Druidoak]

Hitler was raised Caholic, was an alterboy. Just because later he went sideways dos not discount that fact. He even banned the Bible in later years in Germany and replaced it with his own book. He thought he was God. The emporer in Japan has looked at as God. All of Hitlers general staff were raised Catholic. Monotheistic religion was still the name of the game. Just the name of the God changed.

Whether it pisses you off or not is besides the point, history is history whether you like it or not.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

Hitler was raised Caholic, was an alterboy. Just because later he went sideways dos not discount that fact. He even banned the Bible in later years in Germany and replaced it with his own book. He thought he was God. The emporer in Japan has looked at as God. All of Hitlers general staff were raised Catholic. Monotheistic religion was still the name of the game. Just the name of the God changed.

Whether it pisses you off or not is besides the point, history is history whether you like it or not.

Uh...sorry. What you just posted confirms the fact that he wasn't a Christian.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

Hitler was raised Caholic, was an alterboy. Just because later he went sideways dos not discount that fact. He even banned the Bible in later years in Germany and replaced it with his own book. He thought he was God. The emporer in Japan has looked at as God. All of Hitlers general staff were raised Catholic. Monotheistic religion was still the name of the game. Just the name of the God changed.

Whether it pisses you off or not is besides the point, history is history whether you like it or not.

Just because you're born in a garage does not make you a car...

[imova]

Originally Posted by Lioness

Just because you're born in a garage does not make you a car...

How ever that quart of 5 weight motor oil you drank does

IMO religion doesn't really have a bearing on how psychopaths or sociopaths are made. Its just their brain chemistry that determines whether or not they'll kill 12 people today, or 6 million jews tomorrow. Its all in how they view them selves, their complexes. Its a very complicated and interesting thing.

[Lioness]

Hitler's religious affiliation was Nazism, not Christianity. He tried to wipe that out.

http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/Adolf_Hitler.html

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by imova

How ever that quart of 5 weight motor oil you drank does

IMO religion doesn't really have a bearing on how psychopaths or sociopaths are made. Its just their brain chemistry that determines whether or not they'll kill 12 people today, or 6 million jews tomorrow. Its all in how they view them selves, their complexes. Its a very complicated and interesting thing.

Vrooooom vroooommmmmmmmmm

[Wolfegard]

I am a proud Southern gun owner, I do not compromise. You should not either, so if you believe that guns kill people you also believe:

Pencils mispel words:
Cars make people drive drunk:
Spoons make people fat:
And couches make people lazy.

If you apply it to one thing you have to do it to everything :D

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Wolfegard

I am a proud Southern gun owner, I do not compromise. You should not either, so if you believe that guns kill people you also believe:

Pencils mispel words:
Cars make people drive drunk:
Spoons make people fat:
And couches make people lazy.

If you apply it to one thing you have to do it to everything :D

It's the motor oil.

[Lioness]

And don't forget the influence Wagner had on Hitler:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...nd-Wagner.html

[tim929]

Again the argument of religion. Grow a brain please people. Seriously. At no point did Christ ever advocate violence and in fact advocated the exact opposite. That people choose to misappropriate the name of religion in an effort to try to justify their violent behavior doesnt stand as an endorsement by religion. If a person commits a crime and uses your name as the motivation should you be held liable for their actions? By this line of reasoning, yes.

The simple reality is that regardless of peoples affiliation to a club there are just some people who are fucked up. Thats all.

[ridgerunner]

you are correct jesus never advocated direct violence but his father "god" did
jesus asked for a passive and nonviolent fight to the ideals of oppression
so as it seems you now have 2 out of topic responses
you posted about gun control and serial killers in a religion thread and religion in a gun control thread

as was aksed in forrest gump "are you stupid"

[tim929]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

you are correct jesus never advocated direct violence but his father "god" did
jesus asked for a passive and nonviolent fight to the ideals of oppression
so as it seems you now have 2 out of topic responses
you posted about gun control and serial killers in a religion thread and religion in a gun control thread

as was aksed in forrest gump "are you stupid"

If you had bothered to read the thread you would have noticed that the subject of religion in connection with the topic has come up repeatedly and you would have also put together that I was reponding to those posts. Come on now...try to keep up.

as was aksed in forrest gump "are you stupid?"

[ridgerunner]

i defy you to define and relate the topic of the title of this thread in simple language that even you can understand
religion has nothing to do with gun control
and gun control has nothing to do with religion

and now for the topic
guns are not out of control its the mindless people behind the gun

[SW1]

Originally Posted by Nymphette2

After the latest mass murder committed by a lawful gun carrying citizen in Denver. I guess the NRA , Ted Nudgent et al, will say its just another random thing, the maybe 50th random shooting/murder by a licensed gun owner this year alone.

However this one left 12 dead and 50 wounded, whats it going to take before Americans realize that their neighbor is NOT a responsible gun owner and it's better they all give up their guns, for every ones safety.

Yes it was a random act perpetrated by a mad man.
Historicity, statistics reveal that countries with strict gun laws suffer the same type of crime.
Had I, or another person, licenced and armed, been in that theater and within range, I could have saved lives.
End of statement.
SW

[SW1]

Originally Posted by AZRIEL

Attachment 1919469

AZ, I greatly enjoy your sense of humor. Where do you find some of the photos?

[deviousdave]

Matthew 10:34

[bigbird]

whats happening to matthew at 10.34 - is he being shot?

[bigbird]

Originally Posted by SW1

Yes it was a random act perpetrated by a mad man.
Historicity, statistics reveal that countries with strict gun laws suffer the same type of crime.
Had I, or another person, licenced and armed, been in that theater and within range, I could have saved lives.
End of statement.
SW

or you could have killed and injured a shit load of other innocent people

[tim929]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

i defy you to define and relate the topic of the title of this thread in simple language that even you can understand
religion has nothing to do with gun control
and gun control has nothing to do with religion

and now for the topic
guns are not out of control its the mindless people behind the gun

You realy arent very bright, are you?

[tim929]

On Sunday there were two seperate car accidents that claimed the lives of fifteen and injured 14 others.

Guns were designed to kill. There are an estimated 250 to 300 million firearms in the U.S. in private ownership. As of this writing there are just over 196 million licensed drivers on the road...and cars were designed as transportation. Automobile accidents will kill roughly four times more people this year than guns will, including justified shootings and suicides. There are six million car accidents each year. More than three million people will be injured in car accidents this year and almost half of those will suffer some kind of permenant injury. There are twice as many guns designed to kill as there are cars designed for transportation and yet guns dont even come close to killing and injuring as many people as cars do....not even close.

If we realy want to save lives then its time to start looking at doing something that will realy work. And lets not forget the environmental impact of driving in addition to the death toll from accidents.

[bigbird]

U S A, U S A

[bigbird]

Guns clearly not out of control ! :-

[Honghe]

The gun lobby are so on their back foot now, dizzy, almost sad to see them still throwing out more die in accidents .

Do those guys need and want them, like big trucks to compensate for something that's lacking ?

[imova]

Originally Posted by Honghe

The gun lobby are so on their back foot now, dizzy, almost sad to see them still throwing out more die in accidents .

Do those guys need and want them, like big trucks to compensate for something that's lacking ?

Only people who use your argument are 'lacking'.

Its a statistical fact. More die from Alcohol, car accidents, and heart attacks than guns. Or do you buy into the gun control lobby's statistics about how the entire country should be dead by now from guns?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Wolfegard

I am a proud Southern gun owner, I do not compromise. You should not either, so if you believe that guns kill people you also believe:

Pencils mispel words:
Cars make people drive drunk:
Spoons make people fat:
And couches make people lazy.

If you apply it to one thing you have to do it to everything :D

No only an idiot would believe any such thing.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Sometimes with guns. And people with assault rifles and 100 round drums can kill a lot more people in one place at one time than just someone who has regular guns with limited round capacity.

And what you appear to be saying is you have an unlimited right to own and possess guns and high capacity clips and magazines, but no one else has a right to go to a movie and not get shot.

[Empress Lainie]

If half a dozen people (adults) in that theater were armed, they would have stopped him with a head shot before he killed very many, or maybe any.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by tim929

On Sunday there were two seperate car accidents that claimed the lives of fifteen and injured 14 others.

Guns were designed to kill. There are an estimated 250 to 300 million firearms in the U.S. in private ownership. As of this writing there are just over 196 million licensed drivers on the road...and cars were designed as transportation. Automobile accidents will kill roughly four times more people this year than guns will, including justified shootings and suicides. There are six million car accidents each year. More than three million people will be injured in car accidents this year and almost half of those will suffer some kind of permenant injury. There are twice as many guns designed to kill as there are cars designed for transportation and yet guns dont even come close to killing and injuring as many people as cars do....not even close.

If we realy want to save lives then its time to start looking at doing something that will realy work. And lets not forget the environmental impact of driving in addition to the death toll from accidents.

OK I can follow your line of thought here but its not like we're not doing anything about the auto accidents is it.

Lets see we require divers to have a drivers license and insurance don't we? In some states they actually require people to take driving courses before they can get a license. And we make people register their automobiles every year don't we? Don't we also have programs like report every drunk driver immediately and even check points to stop drivers and make sure people aren't driving drunk?

So considering the number of deaths and injuries from guns why can't we do about the same things we are doing with automobiles to cut down on the number of deaths and injuries from auto accidents?

You know things like taking a test and having a license. Registering guns like we do cars. Making gun owners have liability insurance.

PS Can you drive a Formula 1 race car on the street? Can you buy a fully armed tank to drive around in?

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

you are correct jesus never advocated direct violence

Originally Posted by bigbird

whats happening to matthew at 10.34 - is he being shot?

From the bible. Matthew 10:34

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

[smcaaphd]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

From the bible. Matthew 10:34

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Come on, they had to have something to cut the crusts off their fish butties

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by smcaaphd

Come on, they had to have something to cut the crusts off their fish butties

If you're going to magic a sandwich, why not magic one without the crust dammit !

[Jerry626]

Guns are not out of control, people are!

[deepdiver24]

for those gun control advocates out there, this tragedy is one example of the type of outcome you can get with gun control. The law says noone is allowed to have a gun in a theatre, including concealed carry. Now because all the people in the theatre were responsible law abiding citizens, noone had a gun. Enter bad guy: no regard for the law, so he breaks it first by bringing firearms into the theatre full of people that are required by law to be defenseless, then he opens fire and everyone knows the result. I am a gun guy, and noone will change my mind, so don't bother trying. But, the key point here is that "gun control" was legally in effect in this situation. Make all the laws you want, but only the already responsible law abiding citizens will abide by them...they won't ever stop bad guys from being bad, thats the way it is, except it or not, its what you have got to live with.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by deepdiver24

for those gun control advocates out there, this tragedy is one example of the type of outcome you can get with gun control. The law says noone is allowed to have a gun in a theatre, including concealed carry. Now because all the people in the theatre were responsible law abiding citizens, noone had a gun. Enter bad guy: no regard for the law, so he breaks it first by bringing firearms into the theatre full of people that are required by law to be defenseless, then he opens fire and everyone knows the result. I am a gun guy, and noone will change my mind, so don't bother trying. But, the key point here is that "gun control" was legally in effect in this situation. Make all the laws you want, but only the already responsible law abiding citizens will abide by them...they won't ever stop bad guys from being bad, thats the way it is, except it or not, its what you have got to live with.

Hell I won't try to change your mind I'll just point out its an incredibly weak one that doesn't know its bullshit from facts.

And for every single instance you can show me where a gun helped stop some alleged crime I'll show you far more where some fool shot himself in the ass and hit kids with bullet fragments in a walmart store. Or some loaded gun falling out of a kindergarteners pocket at school. Hundreds of accidental shootings and dozens of cases of someone shooting the wrong person.

[stumbler]

Let's look at this aspect of it. The gun nuts contend they have a right to bear arms and there should be nothing to restrict them but Caleb Medley doesn't have a right to go to a movie without incurring a $2 million hospitable bill?

If nothing else if we required gun owners to have liability insurance on every gun they own there would be some way to pay for the funerals and hospital bills of their victims.

Caleb Medley, Uninsured Aurora Shooting Victim, May Face $2 Million In Medical Costs (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1699092.html

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Let's look at this aspect of it. The gun nuts contend they have a right to bear arms and there should be nothing to restrict them but Caleb Medley doesn't have a right to go to a movie without incurring a $2 million hospitable bill?

If nothing else if we required gun owners to have liability insurance on every gun they own there would be some way to pay for the funerals and hospital bills of their victims.

Caleb Medley, Uninsured Aurora Shooting Victim, May Face $2 Million In Medical Costs (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1699092.html

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Caleb Medley, Uninsured Aurora Shooting Victim, May Face $2 Million In Medical Costs (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1699092.html

Obamacare will pay the bill....

[jammer1]

guns aren't the problem, it's the moron's that own the guns. i have atleast 15 guns becuase i hunt. everytime i hear of a shooting i thing yea..... one step closer to a lib shutin gun laws down. when in reality a crook will always find a way to get a gun. I HOPE THEY FRY THAT BASTARD FOR WHAT HE DID!