Free speech on forums

[Heyesey]

I'm here to vent, because the forum on which this particular fuckwit is posting does not allow me to call him a fuckwit. Actually there's very little you can do or say on XNXX that would get you in trouble, but it still applies.




Free speech does not apply to private houses. You don't even have a right to BE IN my house, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If I object to what you're saying, you go out - via the door or via the window, depending how resistant you are.

Free speech does not apply to private forums. You don't even have a right to BE ON this forum, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If the forum owner objects to what you're saying, you leave - either the offensive posts get deleted, or you get banned entirely.

Got that? Good. Now fuck off and go find a shop selling brains. You need a new one.

[richief]

Which forum is he on, I don't mind joining just to call him a fuckwit.

[deviousdave]

I thought this was obvious. People's right to free speech does not extend to private forums. (for the benefit of those that may not be aware, free speech is actually quite limited in Europe, there is a list of exceptions so long that it renders the word "free" somewhat laughable) Back on topic, in this context, people's right to say what they want is limited to creating their own forum and saying what they like there. By breaking the rules on a forum in the United States, the first amendment protects you legally for what you said, however, that doesn't mean the owner of the forum cannot censor/ban you.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

I thought this was obvious.

You would think ... some people can't recognise the obvious unless it's carved on their arse cheeks with a hot knife.

[AZRIEL]

I-Found-My-Keys.jpg

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

I'm here to vent, because the forum on which this particular fuckwit is posting does not allow me to call him a fuckwit. Actually there's very little you can do or say on XNXX that would get you in trouble, but it still applies.




Free speech does not apply to private houses. You don't even have a right to BE IN my house, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If I object to what you're saying, you go out - via the door or via the window, depending how resistant you are.

Free speech does not apply to private forums. You don't even have a right to BE ON this forum, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If the forum owner objects to what you're saying, you leave - either the offensive posts get deleted, or you get banned entirely.

Got that? Good. Now fuck off and go find a shop selling brains. You need a new one.

That's one of the reasons I came to this forum and stuck like glue at first at least. This was the broadest and most ardent illustration of free speech I had ever seen. Its lost a lot since then of course but at least you can still call someone a fuckwit or non-fucker (my personal favorite) and not get banned.

But my personal prediction is that it won't be too long before this forum is just like the one you mentioned. And just like all the rest I've seen.

Nothing gold can stay I guess.

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

That's one of the reasons I came to this forum and stuck like glue at first at least. This was the broadest and most ardent illustration of free speech I had ever seen. Its lost a lot since then of course but at least you can still call someone a fuckwit or non-fucker (my personal favorite) and not get banned.

But my personal prediction is that it won't be too long before this forum is just like the one you mentioned. And just like all the rest I've seen.

Nothing gold can stay I guess.

Stay gold ponyboy

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

Stay gold ponyboy

You betcha "Little Horse."

[stumbler]

Damn I miss Nophest and what he stood for.

Originally Posted by nophest

You are making accusations against the mods and admins, saying that they are favoring others.

Please state what wrong they did to you exactly. All the threads that were deleted are actually still visible for us.

If you are right, I will ban them, if you have nothing to back up your claims, I will ban you.

Originally Posted by nophest

I'm not mocking you. I just want to make sure that our mods are impartial.

We ask our mods NOT to delete posts on request. They only delete them when they are real photos or real life information.

You have been completely free to voice your opinion, just as they are.

Did our mods threaten to ban you or delete some of your threads without reason? Did they reveal your socks (if you have any) or did anything else wrong?

Originally Posted by nophest

Okay then our moderators have done nothing to you, but you kept bashing them (and us admins) very harshly and spreading the idea that they are biased.

Since you have been here for two years, we are giving you two days to contact the people from the forum you want to stay in touch with. After that you will be banned and only be able to access with a proxy.

Please don't go on a rampage during this time.

PS I also offered to take the Nophest Challenge myself a few times since this but no one took me up on it.

[richief]

Why not show what Deidres responses were.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by richief

Why not show what Deidres responses were.

Because this has nothing to do with Deidre79. That was simply a testament to the guy who built the forum and the best and greatest working model of "free speech" in action I'd ever seen and that counted my own experience in the newspaper business.

And it was more than just a shinning example. Nophest was also a truly courageous proponent of free speech who damn sure took his lumps for it but still refused to censor anything that was no against the law.

We did actually even have bestiality on the picture thread and pedophilia in the story section until the laws changed. And that was true even though Nophest admitted he personally detested the pedo stories but still didn't censor them.

PS Nophest also used fewer words to communicate than any human I'd ever seen and chose them carefully. And so I call your attention to when he told Deidre79 she/he/it was "free" to say what ever he/she/it wanted. Just like OP and everyone else says we have no rights to free speech on a forum. True, but Nophest granted us "freedom" of speech. At one time at least. I think Nophest has been gone a long time now.

PPSS You can look up Deidre79's responses for yourself. Eljs bumped the thread and its right handy on the front page and all you have to do is read page 1.

[stumbler]

Any of you ever see this one. It was actually an agreement between Chunky and Piggit to end the personal attack threads posted against one member from another.

So there was an attack thread put up against Baller16 and Pigget deleted the thread. Nophest brought it back up and this was his response:

Originally Posted by nophest

Back from the dead. You can resume hating.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Because this has nothing to do with Deidre79. That was simply a testament to the guy who built the forum and the best and greatest working model of "free speech" in action I'd ever seen and that counted my own experience in the newspaper business.

And it was more than just a shinning example. Nophest was also a truly courageous proponent of free speech who damn sure took his lumps for it but still refused to censor anything that was no against the law.

We did actually even have bestiality on the picture thread and pedophilia in the story section until the laws changed. And that was true even though Nophest admitted he personally detested the pedo stories but still didn't censor them.

PS Nophest also used fewer words to communicate than any human I'd ever seen and chose them carefully. And so I call your attention to when he told Deidre79 she/he/it was "free" to say what ever he/she/it wanted. Just like OP and everyone else says we have no rights to free speech on a forum. True, but Nophest granted us "freedom" of speech. At one time at least. I think Nophest has been gone a long time now.

PPSS You can look up Deidre79's responses for yourself. Eljs bumped the thread and its right handy on the front page and all you have to do is read page 1.

nophest's banning of deidre78 was the same arbitrary use of force you complain about in your " Why" thread.
http://forum.xnxx.com/showthread.php?t=299149

Accusations of favoritism:

Originally Posted by nophest

You are making accusations against the mods and admins, saying that they are favoring others.

are not a violation of the rules.

http://forum.xnxx.com/showthread.php?t=609

Favoritism is in the eyes of the beholder. We know that deidre79, in additional to her occasional charm, could be volatile and unstable. She thought that the mods and admins were favoring others. Indeed the recent appointment of ShakeZula as a mod reinforced her suspicion of favoritism against her.

[sullygom]

You are all fuckwits, except those of you who aren't........subjective pov

[Honghe]

Originally Posted by AZRIEL

Attachment 1919461

I think he has figured this site out well.

[freespiritx]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Damn I miss Nophest and what he stood for.

Wow, Apparently I've fallen behind on the latest and not so great news.
Has Nophest left the building and if so when and what brought this on?
I was under the understanding Nophest was one of the owners / founders of XNXX. Was I wrong?

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by freespiritx

Wow, Apparently I've fallen behind on the latest and not so great news.
Has Nophest left the building and if so when and what brought this on?
I was under the understanding Nophest was one of the owners / founders of XNXX. Was I wrong?

I haven't seen Nophest since shortly after the Deidre79 incident and from everything I've heard is no longer an administrator.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

nophest's banning of deidre78 was the same arbitrary use of force you complain about in your " Why" thread.
http://forum.xnxx.com/showthread.php?t=299149

Accusations of favoritism:



are not a violation of the rules.

http://forum.xnxx.com/showthread.php?t=609

Favoritism is in the eyes of the beholder. We know that deidre79, in additional to her occasional charm, could be volatile and unstable. She thought that the mods and admins were favoring others. Indeed the recent appointment of ShakeZula as a mod reinforced her suspicion of favoritism against her.

Now I know you've always felt bad and guilty for manipulating Deidre79, egging him one, and getting him banned. But I'm not going to allow you to sit and lie about it.

I notice you were too deceitful and gutless to post the entire quote. But you talk about an administrator being impartial and fair I don't think you can have one better and more impartial than Nophest was.

Originally Posted by Nophest

You are making accusations against the mods and admins, saying that they are favoring others.

Please state what wrong they did to you exactly. All the threads that were deleted are actually still visible for us.

If you are right, I will ban them, if you have nothing to back up your claims, I will ban you.

[Pandorius999]

Will this forum keep talking about diedre79? Atleast this forum allows dissent.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Pandorius999

Will this forum keep talking about diedre79? Atleast this forum allows dissent.

I actually tried to avoid bringing anyone else into this, especially Deidre79, and instead stick to the topic which compares the amount of free speech we have here as opposed to other forums.

And since at one time this forum was a truly monumental testament to free speech I think Nophest deserves credit for just how much freedom and fairness this forum had and the courage it took to make it that way.

[Pandorius999]

Fully agree about nophest. Pity he's no longer around. I can compare this to another forum I'm on and it's dead because each place has so many rules (enforced by the founder himself) that one feels one's talking at a cocktail party. Here atleast there's tolerance and the rules are hardly half a yellowpages post. Add to that the general IQ levels and the sense of humour and it's truly enjoyable.

[AZRIEL]

Originally Posted by stumbler

nom nom nomphest.jpg

hold on.jpg

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Pandorius999

Fully agree about nophest. Pity he's no longer around. I can compare this to another forum I'm on and it's dead because each place has so many rules (enforced by the founder himself) that one feels one's talking at a cocktail party. Here atleast there's tolerance and the rules are hardly half a yellowpages post. Add to that the general IQ levels and the sense of humour and it's truly enjoyable.

I actually had to find that out the hardway. I was an internet novice when I first joined this forum and was under the mistaken impression that all forums were like this one.

Man was I a fool and ended up getting kicked off and/or banned on several other forums because I would say what I really thought.

One time I even got kicked off a forum for daring to say that Israel has nuclear weapons which to me seemed like just common knowledge.

On another forum some member conned me into saying I thought civil disobedience was a legitimate form of protest. That was interpreted as encouraging people to commit crimes which was against their rules and I was immediately off. And on that one while there's no way I could prove it I'm pretty sure the person I was arguing with was a moderator.

[JayneyRedd]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

I'm here to vent, because the forum on which this particular fuckwit is posting does not allow me to call him a fuckwit. Actually there's very little you can do or say on XNXX that would get you in trouble, but it still applies.

Originally Posted by richief

Which forum is he on, I don't mind joining just to call him a fuckwit.

Me too! Heysey, we could organise a raiding party, all of us join at the same time, call the guy a fuckwit/halfwit/knob/twat/etc then GTFO

Find out who else (apart from me & Richief) is interested, PM us all the link and the name of the fuckwit, and voila!

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by JayneyRedd

Me too! Heysey, we could organise a raiding party, all of us join at the same time, call the guy a fuckwit/halfwit/knob/twat/etc then GTFO

Find out who else (apart from me & Richief) is interested, PM us all the link and the name of the fuckwit, and voila!

Tempting, but he's already been banned. It would serve no purpose.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by JayneyRedd

Me too! Heysey, we could organise a raiding party, all of us join at the same time, call the guy a fuckwit/halfwit/knob/twat/etc then GTFO

Find out who else (apart from me & Richief) is interested, PM us all the link and the name of the fuckwit, and voila!

While I want to emphatically state I think there is a world of difference between Heysey and Distant Lover I still don't recommend this tactic either.

DL sucked me into to doing that for him on another forum after he'd been banned and it was most definitely not worth the effort required.

In fact I ended up feeling like a fool for even allowing DL to play me like that.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Now I know you've always felt bad and guilty for manipulating Deidre79, egging him one, and getting him banned. But I'm not going to allow you to sit and lie about it.

I notice you were too deceitful and gutless to post the entire quote. But you talk about an administrator being impartial and fair I don't think you can have one better and more impartial than Nophest was.

You often interpret honest disagreements with you as lies. It does not matter whether you quote nophest's entire comment or not. Accusing the mods of favoritism is not listed as a violation of the rules. Banning deidre79 was an act of censorship, which you praise nophest for not engaging in.

Anyone who found deidre79 objectionable could have put her on ignore.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

. Accusing the mods of favoritism is not listed as a violation of the rules.

But it is basis for a libel action against Nophest, as the site's owner. (As was.)

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

But it is basis for a libel action against Nophest, as the site's owner. (As was.)

Can you document that?

If what you say is true, I would expect every internet forum to prohibit accusing the mods of favoritism in the Rules. They do not seem to.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

You often interpret honest disagreements with you as lies. It does not matter whether you quote nophest's entire comment or not. Accusing the mods of favoritism is not listed as a violation of the rules. Banning deidre79 was an act of censorship, which you praise nophest for not engaging in.

Anyone who found deidre79 objectionable could have put her on ignore.

No you're still lying. Nophest at the time was defending the fairness and integrity of his forum and took a stand on that. Deidre79 was making accusations of favoritism on the part of the moderators at the time. If he had been able to validate those charges the mods would have been banned and if Deidre79 could not then it would be him.

And I've always believed if Deidre79 had simply admitted he was wrong and apologized then he would not have been banned. But you actually egged him on and enabled him instead so he got banned.

And I don't intend to keep going and allow you to derail the thread so I'll resume ignoring you just as you said others should have done with Deidre79.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

But it is basis for a libel action against Nophest, as the site's owner. (As was.)

I totally agree. We don't need a forum rule prohibiting libel. We have LAWS for that.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

No you're still lying. Nophest at the time was defending the fairness and integrity of his forum and took a stand on that. Deidre79 was making accusations of favoritism on the part of the moderators at the time. If he had been able to validate those charges the mods would have been banned and if Deidre79 could not then it would be him.

And I've always believed if Deidre79 had simply admitted he was wrong and apologized then he would not have been banned. But you actually egged him on and enabled him instead so he got banned.

And I don't intend to keep going and allow you to derail the thread so I'll resume ignoring you just as you said others should have done with Deidre79.

Posters get accused of all kinds of stuff here. An accusation of favoritism seems fairly mild. You accuse people of lying.

I may have expressed my support for deidre79 too early. Nevertheless, she made it clear that she was going to stand her ground. I wanted to make it clear whose side I was on.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

DL sucked me into to doing that for him on another forum after he'd been banned and it was most definitely not worth the effort required.

In fact I ended up feeling like a fool for even allowing DL to play me like that.

You are projecting malevolent intentions onto me that I did not have, and which would have been out of character for me. I told you about that internet forum because I thought you would find it interesting. I told you which posters you would probably like, and warned about which posters you would probably dislike.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Can you document that?

You're suddenly no longer capable of googling the phrase "libel laws"?

[chris4sylvia]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Posters get accused of all kinds of stuff here. An accusation of favoritism seems fairly mild. You accuse people of lying.

I may have expressed my support for deidre79 too early. Nevertheless, she made it clear that she was going to stand her ground. I wanted to make it clear whose side I was on.

I wonder what your comments were as regarding the posting of pictures each with a different girl, yet each picture Deidre claimed to be that girl.

Do you still stand by your friends even when it is clear that they are lying, because if you do then that is why you get publicly ridiculed and humiliated.

[JayneyRedd]

Originally Posted by stumbler

While I want to emphatically state I think there is a world of difference between Heysey and Distant Lover I still don't recommend this tactic either.

DL sucked me into to doing that for him on another forum after he'd been banned and it was most definitely not worth the effort required.

In fact I ended up feeling like a fool for even allowing DL to play me like that.

I was just thinking about having a bit of "internet fun"

I tend not to take the internet too seriously nowadays. It has unlimited powers for good when it comes to disasters, civil wars etc, but let's not give over-importance to forums like this.
I love this place, it allows us all to say things that we very probably couldn't say anywhere else, but it isn't going to significantly change the outside world.

Let's enjoy it for what it is, and rejoice in the likes of the lovely Stumbly perennially arguing for its de-restriction (depite his unavoidable middle-aged grumpiness - but I love his posts dearly, even when I don't agree with them, which is most of the time), and the difficult job done by the mods (who travail, at times thanklessly).

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

You're suddenly no longer capable of googling the phrase "libel laws"?

I did a quick internet search using:

"libel laws" + favoritism + "internet forums" + moderators

I could not find anything. If you make an assertion it is your responsibility to document it, especially when we are talking about reasons to ban someone.

I doubt it is possible to win a law suit against anyone for a charge of something as subjective as favoritism. Think of all the bosses and teachers who would be vulnerable to such law suits. People could sue their parents for favoring a sibling.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by chris4sylvia

I wonder what your comments were as regarding the posting of pictures each with a different girl, yet each picture Deidre claimed to be that girl.

Do you still stand by your friends even when it is clear that they are lying, because if you do then that is why you get publicly ridiculed and humiliated.

Those who flame me for standing by my friends are too contemptible for me to care about their judgement of me. Actually, I am proud of their hostility.

I do not believe that deidre79, Bill24, Carrie Joslin, and Maya lied about who they were.

I had some questions about the relationship between Carrie Joslin, Carrie_J, and JuliaE, but Filipina/Maya cleared them up.

[JayneyRedd]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Those who flame me for standing by my friends are too contemptible for me to care about their judgement of me. Actually, I am proud of their hostility.

I do not believe that deidre79, Bill24, Carrie Joslin, and Maya lied about who they were.

I had some questions about the relationship between Carrie Joslin, Carrie_J, and JuliaE, but Filipina/Maya cleared them up.

Bless you, DL.

You are just a little naive in the ways of the internet, despite the time you have spent upon it.


Lovely as you appear at times, you are sadly mistaken sweetie.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by JayneyRedd

Bless you, DL.

You are just a little naive in the ways of the internet, despite the time you have spent upon it.

Lovely as you appear at times, you are sadly mistaken sweetie.

If you can prove or even indicate that I mistaken about deidre79, Bill24, Carrie Joslin, and Filipina, please post it here, or send it to me in a PM.

I have met none of them in person, although Filipina offered to meet me. I believe they are who they claim to be because they have distinct personalities, and there is nothing implausible in their claims.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by JayneyRedd

I was just thinking about having a bit of "internet fun"

I tend not to take the internet too seriously nowadays. It has unlimited powers for good when it comes to disasters, civil wars etc, but let's not give over-importance to forums like this.
I love this place, it allows us all to say things that we very probably couldn't say anywhere else, but it isn't going to significantly change the outside world.

Let's enjoy it for what it is, and rejoice in the likes of the lovely Stumbly perennially arguing for its de-restriction (depite his unavoidable middle-aged grumpiness - but I love his posts dearly, even when I don't agree with them, which is most of the time), and the difficult job done by the mods (who travail, at times thanklessly).

And it might have been fun for all I know. Its just that I had I bad experience getting played by DL to do his fighting for him and it was pretty much a set up.

It was also a situation where if they were looking for a fight they got one and they were actually pretty weak opponents. But it was also a situation when once they found out there was a connection to DL (because he snuck back of the forum and they guessed) it was me against the forum.

But about the same time I figured out what a real snake in the grass DL really is and that I was actually defending one of the worst racists I'd ever encountered. Not the kind of person I want to know let alone fight for.

Plus as forums go it was kind of like fighting with one hand tied behind my back because of all their rules where I had to be extremely careful. But I still left by my own choosing because it just was not worth hanging around there. And the only positive point I had was seeing a few of my adversaries leave or get banned before I did.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

But about the same time I figured out what a real snake in the grass DL really is and that I was actually defending one of the worst racists I'd ever encountered. Not the kind of person I want to know let alone fight for.

Once again I thought you would enjoy the forum. There was nothing underhanded about my behavior at all.

My racism consists of a willingness to post facts about the persistent nature of racial differences in ability levels and behavior. The reason this angers some liberals is because they know that what I say is true, and they do not like being reminded of it.

Those who maintain that the differences are environmental maintain something for which there is no evidence at all, because there has never been an environment in which the differences did not exist.

It is easy to dismiss someone who posts racial jokes and who uses the n word. My well documented facts cannot be dismissed.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by JayneyRedd

Bless you, DL.

You are just a little naive in the ways of the internet, despite the time you have spent upon it.


Lovely as you appear at times, you are sadly mistaken sweetie.

You know don't you that if we allow DL to do it he will derail the discussion here and turn it into another Diedre79 thread don't you? In fact that's exactly what he's trying to do.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

You know don't you that if we allow DL to do it he will derail the discussion here and turn it into another Diedre79 thread don't you? In fact that's exactly what he's trying to do.

deidre79's banning is relevant to the topic of free speech here.

[stumbler]

How about this? Have any of you ever been on a forum where the moderators "review" every comment before they appear.

Man what a racket that is. I've waited hours for one of my comments to appear while what I had to say got buried by people's comments that appeared in seconds.

Ive also seen times where my comment never appeared because it disagreed with what the majority was saying and offered proof.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by stumbler

How about this? Have any of you ever been on a forum where the moderators "review" every comment before they appear.

Man what a racket that is. I've waited hours for one of my comments to appear while what I had to say got buried by people's comments that appeared in seconds.

Ive also seen times where my comment never appeared because it disagreed with what the majority was saying and offered proof.

Stormfront is like that. They printed each of my comments until I documented, using a footnote in my copy of Mein Kampf, that one of Hitler's charges against German Jews was factually incorrect.

My objective to moderator review is that it inhibits a rapid exchange of ideas.

Nevertheless, I appreciate the civil atmosphere on Stormfront. Flaming and obscene language are prohibited. Posters are told to post comments they would be willing for their mothers to read on the first page of The New York Times. This advice is honored in the breach, however.

[stumbler]

Or how about this. A free porn site that denies access to certain things unless you pay for a premium membership. Then after you pay for the premium membership they ban you anyway and keep your money.

That really hasn't happened to me but I know at least one person who took that sucker bait.

[Oweena]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

I'm here to vent, because the forum on which this particular fuckwit is posting does not allow me to call him a fuckwit. Actually there's very little you can do or say on XNXX that would get you in trouble, but it still applies.

Free speech does not apply to private houses. You don't even have a right to BE IN my house, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If I object to what you're saying, you go out - via the door or via the window, depending how resistant you are.

Free speech does not apply to private forums. You don't even have a right to BE ON this forum, let alone to say whatever you feel like while you're there. If the forum owner objects to what you're saying, you leave - either the offensive posts get deleted, or you get banned entirely.

Got that? Good. Now fuck off and go find a shop selling brains. You need a new one.

l'l take this one step further and name the site. (Actual Incest dot com.)As this site I was permanently banned banned for giving my thoughts on several subjects.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by Oweena

l'l take this one step further and name the site. (Actual Incest dot com.)As this site I was permanently banned banned for giving my thoughts on several subjects.

That looks like a dangerous website:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=...oq=ActualInces

If you do an internet search using Google Chrome, and there is a check to the right of a website it is safe. If there is an x it is not safe, and may be infected with viruses.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by stumbler

That's one of the reasons I came to this forum and stuck like glue at first at least. This was the broadest and most ardent illustration of free speech I had ever seen. Its lost a lot since then of course but at least you can still call someone a fuckwit or non-fucker (my personal favorite) and not get banned.

But my personal prediction is that it won't be too long before this forum is just like the one you mentioned. And just like all the rest I've seen.

Nothing gold can stay I guess.

Stumbler,
So, when you are not whining about the forum where you don't pay anything for the bandwidth, you cry like a little bitch when you are not making snotty comments about the mods.

Awwww!
Does Buddums have a sore ass!
Boo fucking Hoo.

Stumbler, get over yourself and your lame bullshit!