Let the games begin - 2012 Olympics

[ejls]

Latest Medal Results



Swimming - Women's 4x200m Freestyle Relay
United States

Australia

France






Fencing - Women's Sabre Individual
South Korea - Jiyeon Kim

Russia - Sofya Velikaya

Ukraine - Olga Kharlan






Swimming - Men's 100m Freestyle
United States - Nathan Adrian

Australia - James Magnussen

Canada - Brent Hayden

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by ejls

Olympic Track And Field: New Sprinting Rule Will Disqualify Runners For False-Starts
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ummer-olympics

Is the Huffington Post always so badly out of date that it thinks something two years old is new?


Also, and apropos of your most recent post... how many Americans is it pissing off to have your Olympic coverage delayed so much? From this end, it looks a bit of a joke when you report "latest" medals that I saw awarded four hours ago.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Is the Huffington Post always so badly out of date that it thinks something two years old is new?


Also, and apropos of your most recent post... how many Americans is it pissing off to have your Olympic coverage delayed so much? From this end, it looks a bit of a joke when you report "latest" medals that I saw awarded four hours ago.

Apparently, not as pissed off as you are. If we want to know the results before actually seeing the performance, we can find out the information. I knew about the women's gymnastic team winning hours before I saw the event. It's no big deal, it's just something we deal with. I'm sorry that you aren't as understanding, but it is news here.


Boxing: Judges under fire amid "fix" claims
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/judges-...5566--box.html

[freecamloader]

phelps most medals ever one by any olympian

[69magpie]

Originally Posted by ejls

Not me. But then I thought she was prancing around for the attention anyway.

But don't most sports people prance around for the attention, just look at Usain Bolt's lightning pose, or the swimmers cruising up and down the pool deck with thier 'look at me aren't I beautiful' poses, or the latest antics of Bradley Wiggins raised fist pumps of 'aren't I the greatest'........the difference with Michele Jenneke is that she does it before her events.

I read a report recently that she'd been doing that dancing and prancing for around 3 years now. It seems she doesn't do nervous tension like her competitors. Michelle gets incrediably excited and it comes out with her dancing before the races....damn, I'd rather see her happy smiling face than the dour and serious expressions of the other runners.

[deviousdave]

cycling getting a bit farcical with all the position changes made by the refs. Letter of the law and they broke the rules, and the right decision looks to have been made, twice. But it is bad for the sport, bad for the fans, and the two fastest teams have not come away with the medals they deserve. They should make the crossover point more clear.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

cycling getting a bit farcical with all the position changes made by the refs. Letter of the law and they broke the rules, and the right decision looks to have been made, twice. But it is bad for the sport, bad for the fans, and the two fastest teams have not come away with the medals they deserve. They should make the crossover point more clear.

They already are more clear. There's a thundering great white line painted across the track.

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

They already are more clear. There's a thundering great white line painted across the track.

Ah right, couldn't quite see it on my iPhone.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

Ah right, couldn't quite see it on my iPhone.

Basically it is the finish line, which you can't exactly miss.

This is something I've never spotted at cycling events before, so I wonder if it's a case where the rule has always been on the books but they have, just recently, started enforcing it a lot more strictly. Vicky Pendleton, one of the British pair disqualified, admits that it isn't something she normally even thinks about; in her own words, "she moves over to the side a bit and I just go."

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Basically it is the finish line, which you can't exactly miss.

This is something I've never spotted at cycling events before, so I wonder if it's a case where the rule has always been on the books but they have, just recently, started enforcing it a lot more strictly. Vicky Pendleton, one of the British pair disqualified, admits that it isn't something she normally even thinks about; in her own words, "she moves over to the side a bit and I just go."

Maybe. I understand the point of the rule, but for them to start suddenly enforcing it more strictly seems strange. Why fix something that isn't really broken. As far as I'm aware, it is not something cyclists have been exploiting to gain an advantage.

[richief]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Basically it is the finish line, which you can't exactly miss.

This is something I've never spotted at cycling events before, so I wonder if it's a case where the rule has always been on the books but they have, just recently, started enforcing it a lot more strictly. Vicky Pendleton, one of the British pair disqualified, admits that it isn't something she normally even thinks about; in her own words, "she moves over to the side a bit and I just go."

There is supposed to be a line 15 either side of the finish line which is the transition point, I couldn't see it either.

[ejls]

SPOILER ALERT -

If you live in the US and you don't know any outcomes, look away now!

Gabby Douglas of the US wins Olympic gymnastics gold in women's individual all-around.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14182...ll-around.html

[ejls]

Olympic Round-up Day 6

By Bill Dwyre and John Cherwa, Tribune Olympic bureau 5:51 p.m. CDT, August 2, 2012


LONDON -- Serena Williams remained the last U.S. singles tennis player standing at the Olympics Thursday at Wimbledon. But John Isner gave it a great try, losing to yet another Roger Federer magic moment.

Wlliams coasted past former No. 1 Caroline Wozniacki of Denmark, 6-0, 6-3, continuing her dominance of the women's bracket. She hit 30 winners, including six aces, and will face off in the semifinals against current No. 1 Victoria Azarenka of Belarus. Azarenka beat Germany's Angelique Kerber, 6-4, 7-5.

Isner, the 6-foot-9 rising U.S. men's star, stretched No. 1 Federer, but lost, 6-4, 7-6 (5). The final point of the tiebreaker may be an omen for what is ahead here. Isner served on the first match point of the match and Federer hit a clean backhand that clipped the net cord and fell over for the winning point.

"I felt bad, but relieved," Federer said of the lucky shot. "The whole big serving thing (of Isner) was over."

It was Isner's first match on Wimbledon's Centre Court, but certainly not his first experience at Wimbledon. In 2010, he and Nicolas Mahut of France played a record three-day marathon, on Court 18, that ended with a 70-68 fifth set victory for Isner.

Also on Thursday, Serbia's Novak Djokovic made his way into the men's semifinal opposite Great Britain's Andy Murray and Argentinian Juan Martin Del Potro drew the next straw against Federer in the other semifinal.

Maria Sharapova outlasted Belgium's Kim Clijsters for the other women's semifinal spot opposite Maria Kirilenko. Both Sharapova and Kirilenko are Russian.

The U.S. remained medal contenders in doubles. In the men's, No. 1 Bob and Mike Bryan advanced to the semifinals, as did Venus and Serena Williams and Lisa Raymond and Liezel Huber in the women's. In the mixed, Raymond and Mike Bryan are still alive.

Badminton: China continued its relentless march to more medals as play headed toward the finals. In men's singles, two of the four are from China. In men's doubles only one of the four remaining is from China with the others from Malaysia, Denmark and South Korea. In women's singles, three of the final four are from China. It's China vs. Japan in the women's doubles final and both teams in the mixed doubles final are from China.

Beach Volleyball: Two U.S. team finished undefeated as pool play came to a close. Todd Rogers and Phil Dalhausser beat Premysi Kubala and Petr Benes of the Czech Republic, 21-13, 21-15. The women's team of April Ross and Jennifer Kessy had a little more difficult time beating Liliana Fernandez Steiner and Elsa Baquerizo McMillan of Spain, 21-19, 19-21, 19-17.

Canoe/kayak: In a bit of a shocker, three-time defending Olympic champions Pavol and Peter Hochschorner of Slovakia had to settle for bronze in the men's canoe double slalom. And what might be a bigger surprise is two teams from Britain took the top two spots. Tim Baillie and Etienne Stott got the gold beating David Florence and Richard Hounslow by 0.36 seconds. In the women's kayak slalom the winner was Emilie Fer of France followed by Jessica Fox of Australia and Maialen Chourraut of Spain.

Cycling: Britain, known for their prowess in sitting sports, kept that reputation alive with a gold in men's team sprint. The Brits broke its own world record when it beat France in the final. The winning team was made up of Philip Hinds, Jason Kenny and Chris Hoy. Germany was given the bronze by beating Australia. In the women's team sprint, Germany won when the Chinese team was disqualified for an illegal lane change. China was awarded the silver. Australia beat Ukraine in the bronze medal race.

Fencing: Italy beat defending Olympic champion Russia to win the women's team foil. The winning team was made up of Arianna Errigo, Valentina Vezzali and Elisa Di Francisca, who won her second gold medal. South Korea won the bronze by beating France. The U.S. team of Lee Kiefer, Nzingha Prescod and Nicole Ross finished sixth.

Field Hockey: In women's play, the United States, fresh off an upset over Argentina, lost to Australia, 1-0. In other games, South Korea beat Japan, 1-0, Netherlands topped China, 1-0, Britain shut out Belgium, 3-0, Germany stopped Aouth Africa, 2-0 and Argentina over New Zealand, 2-1.

Sailing: The men's star has two races left before the medal race and its unlikely the U.S. team of Mark Mendelblatt and Brian Faith can reach the podium. Mark Mendelblatt and Brian Fatih finished fifth and 10 in their two races and sit in sixth place. Britain is leading. In the 49er class, Erik Storck and Trevor Moore had 20th and 18th place finishes and sit in 13th. Australia is the leader. On the first day of the men's 470, the U.S. team of Stuart Mcnay and Graham Biehl finished 17th and 22nd and are in 20th place. Britain is the leader. In men's Finn, after eight races Zach Railey is in 12th with a sailor from denmark leading. Robert Willis is in 18th place in men's windsurfer and Farrah Hall is in 20th on the women's side. Finally, in the Elliot 6-meter round robin, Anna Tunnicliffe and Molly Vandemoer are in fourth with two races remaining.

Shooting: Britian picked up its first gold in 12 years in the double trap when Peter Wilson hit 188 out of 200 traps. Hakan Dahlbyof Sweden got the silver and Vasily Mosin of Russia the bronze. U.S. shooters Joshua Richmond (16th) and Glenn Eller (22nd) did not make it to the final round. Eller was the 2008 Olympic champion.

Table tennis: An all China final saw Zang Jike beating Wang Hao, 4-1. Dimitrij Ovtcharov of Germany got the bronze. China has won 22 of 26 gold medals since the sport was introduced.

Team handball: Men's play continued with France beating Tunisia, Argentina crushing Britain, Spain over South Korea, Croatia beating Hungary, Denmark over Serbia and Iceland over Sweden.

Copyright © 2012, Chicago Tribune

[69magpie]

Originally Posted by ejls

SPOILER ALERT -

If you live in the US and you don't know any outcomes, look away now!

Gabby Douglas of the US wins Olympic gymnastics gold in women's individual all-around.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14182...ll-around.html

Just a query......

How can it be a spoiler alert when she won her gold some 6 hours ago .

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by 69magpie

Just a query......

How can it be a spoiler alert when she won her gold some 6 hours ago .

If you're watching the Olympics in the USA, you don't get to see anything live. As far as NBC is concerned, the Olympics simply do not happen outside of US Primetime viewing hours.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by 69magpie

Just a query......

How can it be a spoiler alert when she won her gold some 6 hours ago .

Notice I said if you live in the US. Many wait for the outcomes watching the taped coverage tonight. I happened to keep tabs on the minute by minute blogs going on.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

If you're watching the Olympics in the USA, you don't get to see anything live. As far as NBC is concerned, the Olympics simply do not happen outside of US Primetime viewing hours.

Which is why cable and satellite television and the internet are wonderful things.

[69magpie]

Originally Posted by ejls

Notice I said if you live in the US. Many wait for the outcomes watching the taped coverage tonight. I happened to keep tabs on the minute by minute blogs going on.

Oh I am bad, sorry.

[richief]

Today I watched a little judo and a little shooting, men's double trap, gold to Britain. Gold and silver to Britain in the C2 slalom. Then came the swimming, so I turned off.

[ejls]

Originally Posted by 69magpie

Oh I am bad, sorry.

You're also retired, right? Even if they were held in the states, I'm at work for the majority of the day and wouldn't be able to see them until the taped events were shown later on at night.

[69magpie]

Originally Posted by ejls

You're also retired, right? Even if they were held in the states, I'm at work for the majority of the day and wouldn't be able to see them until the taped events were shown later on at night.

The live feed from London starts here around 8pm and goes till 6am, that's not exactly during the daylight hours.

[deviousdave]

What a fantastic couple of days for the Brits. Cycling legends

[ejls]

I watched men's trampoline on a Canadian station this morning. The Chinese were brilliant. Dong got a gold medal.

Whoever thought a dong would win a medal?

[bigbird]

great britain up to 3rd and on fire !

[ejls]

Victoria Pendleton wins cycling gold for GB in women's keirin

Victoria Pendleton rode to victory in the women's keirin to secure Britain's third track cycling gold in 24 hours.



Pendleton crossed the line first in a hotly contested Olympic final, making a dash for the line at the bell.



Guo Shuang took silver with Lee Wai Sze of Hong Kong in bronze. Australia's world champion Anna Meares was fifth.



Pendleton and long-time rival Meares will go head-to-head again when the 31-year-old Briton begins the defence of her individual sprint title on Sunday.



The sprint final takes place on Tuesday, when Pendleton - the most successful British female track cyclist of all time - will be hoping to secure her second gold medal at the Velodrome.



"I can barely believe it right now," said Pendleton. "I think [one of her coaches] Jan [van Eijden] will have something to say about my tactics but he told me not to look for their race - when it's your moment, just go. I really wanted to show what I could do and it worked out well.



"The crowd have been fantastic, they really helped me today."



Pendleton's gold in the keirin - supposedly her weaker event - represented Britain's eighth of the Games, and came barely half an hour after the men's pursuit team cruised to victory and broke the world record before an ecstatic home crowd.



It also saw Great Britain leapfrog South Korea into third place in the medals' table.
Pendleton will retire after the Games, but over the course of a long and glittering career, she has won nine world titles - including a record-equalling six in the individual sprint discipline - in addition to golds in London and Beijing.



She experienced disappointment on Thursday, though, when she and Jess Varnish were disqualified from the women's team sprint because of an illegal change-over during their semi-final win.

[N.E. Woman]

Do athletes from the hosting country have an advantage? Is it possible to quantify that advantage? Or is there is an advantage at all?


I'm just asking.... Not trying to take any glory away from British athletes.

[NewtonInk]

Judging from the results so far . . . . I'd say no.

I could be wrong though.

Wouldn't be the first time.

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by N.E. Woman

Do athletes from the hosting country have an advantage? Is it possible to quantify that advantage? Or is there is an advantage at all?


I'm just asking.... Not trying to take any glory away from British athletes.

They have huge support from crowd, but they also have added pressure to perform. In a way they cancel each other out. But it depends on the character of the athlete, some thrive under pressure, some don't.

[richief]

The GB Team Pursuit destroyed all opposition, every time they ride they set a WR.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by N.E. Woman

Do athletes from the hosting country have an advantage? Is it possible to quantify that advantage? Or is there is an advantage at all?

Host countries routinely perform much better than their normal level, in terms of medals. Spain, in 1992, more than doubled their next-best ever medal total, to take but one example. China topped the medal table last year for the first time ever, taking 51 gold medals to the USA's 36.

There are two chief reasons. One is the natural home advantage that seems to apply to any sport, at any level, largely due to the support of the crowd.

The other is that an awful lot of home countries engineer advantages in all sorts of ways; for instance, designing the BMX biking course, or white-water rafting course, and letting their own athletes practice on it for months beforehand while no other competitor is allowed to use it at all until the event begins. To a greater or lesser extent that sort of thing has always happened, sometimes in a fairly low-key way and sometimes amounting to outright bribery to make sure that judges (in events such as boxing or gymnastics) would support the home athletes. The UK has made a strenuous and deliberate effort not to do it, out of that British sense of fair play that almost nobody else in the world understands, let alone agrees with. (Or at least, they say that have made such an effort. Non-British people might not believe them )

Historically there was a third reason, that foreign countries might not be able to afford to send athletes a long way to an Olympics. In 1904 in St. Louis, more than half of all events were contested by an entirely American field; in 1908, the UK won more than half of all gold medals on offer (56, and our next best ever is 20!) for similar reasons; in some events there'd be five British teams and only one other competing. That sort of thing has been obsolete for decades, though.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Host countries routinely perform much better than their normal level, in terms of medals. Spain, in 1992, more than doubled their next-best ever medal total, to take but one example. China topped the medal table last year for the first time ever, taking 51 gold medals to the USA's 36.

There are two chief reasons. One is the natural home advantage that seems to apply to any sport, at any level, largely due to the support of the crowd.

The other is that an awful lot of home countries engineer advantages in all sorts of ways; for instance, designing the BMX biking course, or white-water rafting course, and letting their own athletes practice on it for months beforehand while no other competitor is allowed to use it at all until the event begins. To a greater or lesser extent that sort of thing has always happened, sometimes in a fairly low-key way and sometimes amounting to outright bribery to make sure that judges (in events such as boxing or gymnastics) would support the home athletes. The UK has made a strenuous and deliberate effort not to do it, out of that British sense of fair play that almost nobody else in the world understands, let alone agrees with. (Or at least, they say that have made such an effort. Non-British people might not believe them )

Historically there was a third reason, that foreign countries might not be able to afford to send athletes a long way to an Olympics. In 1904 in St. Louis, more than half of all events were contested by an entirely American field; in 1908, the UK won more than half of all gold medals on offer (56, and our next best ever is 20!) for similar reasons; in some events there'd be five British teams and only one other competing. That sort of thing has been obsolete for decades, though.

Nope, I do agree. Or at least all the competition I've seen was settled on the field of play so to speak with nothing controversial or unfair at least that I've seen.

Not that there hasn't been controversies because there have been a few. But its more in the sense of catching competitors cheating in some way or nailed for doping.

I'd have to say I've been watching the coverage all day everyday and see a very well organized and truly competitive Olympics so far. One I've thoroughly enjoyed.

[ejls]

I've never really thought about the home-team advantage theory. I suppose it must exist to some extent. I always expect the countries who put money into training (China, Japan, etc) to do better than those countries where the athletes and their sponsors pay for training.

I think the Brits have done a hell of a job with this year's event.

[michael saint]

Originally Posted by ejls

I've never really thought about the home-team advantage theory. I suppose it must exist to some extent. I always expect the countries who put money into training (China, Japan, etc) to do better than those countries where the athletes and their sponsors pay for training.

I think the Brits have done a hell of a job with this year's event.

The crowd can have a massive effect on the morale of an athlete.
In my small experience, to quiet an away teams supporters by superior perfomance was always nice, I had a Coach that always told us to "shut the fucking crowd up"

I'm glad the Swimming is almost done, every credit to Phelps, he is an amazing specimen, but watching what is pretty much a freak show bores me after a while.

[deviousdave]

Oscar Pistorius has made history by becoming the first amputee sprinter to compete at the Olympics.

Oscar Pistorius who's legs were amputated below the knee as a baby is a multiple Paralympic champion. This time he is competing among the Olympians.

Personally I don't think it is fair, he is using artificial aids to race. Sure, it must be like running on ice with no feel, and sure, I cannot begin to imagine what it is like to grow up without feet. But my legs, although perfectly normal and healthy, are not genetically adequate to go out and compete with the best. If I were to extend them with springs I'm sure I could go out, train and do record pace. For a start the artificial legs are nothing like regular legs in a mechanical sense. It is chalk and cheese.

He is a fantastic athlete, and a great champion. But that is why we have Paralympics.

[ejls]

Highlights:

Michael Phelps gives his individual career a proper sendoff with gold in the 100 butterfly
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympic...butterfly.html

US men, defending champs, lose in beach volleyball
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/polish-...1021--oly.html

London Catch-Up, Day 7: Michael Phelps captures final individual gold
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympi...0004--oly.html

Current medal for those with 10 and more:

US - 44
China - 42
UK - 23
Russia - 23
Japan - 21
Germany 20
France - 19
Australia -16
S Korea - 16
Italy - 12

[RandyKnight]

A Dallas Boxer lost a fight to India but the judges reviewed the tapes of the fight and gave the decision to the USA.

[N.E. Woman]

Originally Posted by RandyKnight

A Dallas Boxer lost a fight to India but the judges reviewed the tapes of the fight and gave the decision to the USA.

I read that the boxing referees were in someways crooked. Which leads me to my questions......

1. Where do the referees, umpires, and timers come from? For gymnastics I'm pretty sure they have panels of judges from different countries.

2. Do the Olympic organizers try to never have a judge (for any sport) be from the same country as the athlete(s)?

3. When feasible, are there panels of judges, refs, etc. to attempt to have bias free officials?

Thanks.

[Wee Hector]

Following on from the Beijing Olympics where GB scored a record haul there was a fear that the present games might be a letdown. The first 3 days didn't do much to raise expectations but suddenly we've taken off.

11 Golds, with Jessica Ennis expected to win what really is the most predigious golld of all the women's events in the heptathlon and Andy Murray now on track for at least 2 silver medals Many people run down overpaid sportspersons but they are delivering when the dice are down unlike overpaid bankers and goldenboys.

Come on GB!

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by Wee Hector

Following on from the Beijing Olympics where GB scored a record haul there was a fear that the present games might be a letdown. The first 3 days didn't do much to raise expectations but suddenly we've taken off.

11 Golds, with Jessica Ennis expected to win what really is the most predigious golld of all the women's events in the heptathlon and Andy Murray now on track for at least 2 silver medals Many people run down overpaid sportspersons but they are delivering when the dice are down unlike overpaid bankers and goldenboys.

Come on GB!

I still think it is going to be tough to overhaul our previous gold count. We haven't been as successful in the pool. There disgracefully aren't the same number of cycling events that we came away with medals in, that is a great shame. We haven't been as dominant in the sailing either.

But we have come away with more in the rowing, Got a gold in the C2s canoes, Gold in the double trap shooting, and looking strong in other events.

Hopefully we can keep up the good work.

[deviousdave]

33 golds up for grabs in the swimming. The majority won by the United States, good job there are so many similar swimming events otherwise china would be running away in the medals tables.

[deviousdave]

Jess, You are amazing !

[ThomP]

Originally Posted by deviousdave

Jess, You are amazing !

*I'm not gonna cry... I'm not gonna cry*

She is such a likeable athlete. I'm so happy for her

[Heyesey]

This is now Britain's greatest single day at the Olympics for a hundred and four years - since the '08 London games where we were about 90% of the entire field, which can hardly be counted by today's standards.

Greg Rutherford wins the long jump crown, posting the best three jumps of the entire competition all by himself. That makes it five gold medals in one day, with Mo Farah chasing a sixth in the 10,000 metres - ten laps to go.

[ThomP]

GO MO! Another loveable athlete performing at his best for gold Happy for him!

But... A white man came second? What the fuck!

[deviousdave]

What a run from Mo, What an unbelievable day!!

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by ThomP

GO MO! Another loveable athlete performing at his best for gold Happy for him!

But... A white man came second? What the fuck!

The first I can remember bagging a 10,000 metres medal for an awful long time... and Mo's training buddy at that, so they'll be happy for each other.


First time ever that GB have won three golds in one night in the athletics stadium, and we're up to fourteen with a week in hand, chasing the Beijing target of 19.

[ejls]

World Record for US Women's Medley Relay
http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympi...,4451844.story

Williams and Bryan Brothers Win, Earning Golden Slam
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/sp...in-tennis.html

Olympics 2012: Team GB athletes at London Games Day Eight
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19125271

[Heyesey]

And to think, sixteen years ago in Atlanta our entire effort produced one solitary gold medal. We've come a long way!

[deviousdave]

Our Olympians have been amazing. No surprise the highly paid footballers lose to a team of relative nobodies.

[richief]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

And to think, sixteen years ago in Atlanta our entire effort produced one solitary gold medal. We've come a long way!

It is what happens when you fully adopt professionalism and provide sponsors and grants for the Athletes.

Such a shame that the Peter Wilson lost his grant and was picked up and trained by Sheikh Ahmed bin Mohammed bin Hasher Al Maktoum, of the Dubai ruling family, he obviously saw something that our Olympic committee missed.

The only reason we can never compete with the likes of China and the US is down to the size of the athletics programmes both countries run, sport, even at college, in the US is run like a business, something we do not seem to grasp.