Mitt Romney, man of mystery

[tommyturtle]

I suggest a huge parachute drop of very large solar powered stereo systems playing loud decedent American rock and roll music. If the British to to help we can include their bands in the playlist. That should bring them to their knees.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by anon_de_plume

It is nothing but opinion for anyone to claim we owe our way of life to Israel... kind of makes you wonder how we survived the first 150 of our existance without them.

Were you not complaining about others calling you names? Don't really practice whsat you pontificate...

Sticks and stones, my socklike friend, sticks and stones.

I am not complaining about being called names. It amuses me. I am complaining about all the limp-wristed-Mother-Mary-dweebs around here who can dish it out but can't take it.

Back to topic. Got an iPhone? Got an iBook? Got an iPad? Thank Israel. They're assembled in China, but most of their chipsets are designed in Israel, and most of the programming for IC board manufacture is done there. Same goes for most Android devices, most cellular phones, and a large percentage of WinTel devices. VLSI engineering is the work that Americans don't feel like doing, and that the Central and Southern American immigrants (for the most part) can't do.

Do we literally owe them our way of life? No, I suppose not. Someone would do the programming for the world's precision silicon lithography machines, I suppose. As to who would do it, I guess it's just... well... a matter of opinion.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

It is not necessary to invade Iran. All we need to do is subject the country to a month or so of really hard bombing.

First we take out their anti aircraft facilities. Then we destroy their missile sites. Then we bomb every possible nuclear site.

And Stumbler/Kimiko call me a warmonger.

Sounds easy.

Just that our direct involvement invites retaliation by Russia and China. Yeah. Easy-peasy.

As to the Israelis, they most likely cannot do it without our ordinance. Assuming of course that you are suggesting they stay conventional, and do not go nuke.

[richief]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

This is not a rational rebuttal of one of my arguments. It is a personal insult. As a result it is typical of what you post.

It seems you do not like the truth being told, if you think that is an insult then you have led a sheltered life.

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

It is not necessary to invade Iran. All we need to do is subject the country to a month or so of really hard bombing.

First we take out their anti aircraft facilities. Then we destroy their missile sites. Then we bomb every possible nuclear site.

You have no grasp of military tactics, what do you hope to achieve with such a narrow bombing target, all you will do is encourage the mullahs that they are right about the US being the great satan. The airforce to bomb all suspected atomic facilities, why is this are they a threat to you, or is the reason you are wanting to attack a sovereign nation more hegemony, or is there a perceived threat, one you don't like, the fact that they may be building atomic weapons to equal what the Israelis have.

[ladygodiva123]

Originally Posted by clarise

Personally I cannot stand Romney, and I won't vote for him, but I can't let this stand. More left-wing crap. The desperation intensifies.

Romney is said to be worth around $140 million. A 10% tithe on his worth would be about $14 million, right?

You say he has money off the Caymans. How much? Let's be generous. Let's double his worth. That would make the tithe $28 million. Right?

Below is a picture of the temple that the Mormons built in Romney's Massachusetts home-town of Belmont. No, Mitt and Ann did not single-handedly build it. Not quite.

They only contributed $30 million.



I sincerely doubt the Mormon elders will be dunning Mitt and Ann for another pound of flesh anytime soon.

Source please on the Romneys giving $30 million towards the construction of the temple. I can't find anything indicating they gave that much, even over several years time.

Romney has $150 million just in his IRA. It's estimated that he's worth more than $250 million, but since he has Swiss bank accounts as well as holdings in offshore tax havens like the Caymans, he may be worth A LOT more. Now Harry Reid has said that a former investor in Bain told him that Mitt didn't pay income tax for several years. The blow on Reid and Obama would be severe if that turned out to be untrue, so I find it unlikely that Reid is lying. Whether his source is correct or not is another matter. Of course it would be easy for Romney to settle all these questions. RELEASE THE TAX RETURNS! That would answer how much he is worth, how much he's paid in taxes and how long he worked for Bain. Every people in his own party are calling for him to release his returns.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

He promotes war with Iran and Syria but dodged Vietnam like a motherfucker (while my dad spent 7 years there by choice) and sure as hell won't let his boys fight the wars.

Mitt Romney had a high draft number and did not get drafted.
Your Daddy went there by choice.
Tough shit.

Wanna talk about draft dodgers, look at George W. Bush and that worthless cunt Cheney.
W at least faked it in the Guard while Cheney got 4 exemptions.

Romney?
He just got lucky.

Did YOU complain when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were started by draft dodgers?

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by clarise

As to the Israelis, they most likely cannot do it without our ordinance.

The same Israelis who took their country after the British tried to disarm them in 1948?
Is it hard to hate Jews and still pretend to be a "conservative" Clarise?

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by clarise

Romney is said to be worth around $140 million. A 10% tithe on his worth would be about $14 million, right?

No surprise you don't know what a tithe is, Clarise.
One tithes to a church based upon income, not net worth.

Romney is worth closer to $260 million based on his candidate filings in late 2011.

Sure, these are only two clear examples of how you were not even close to being right, but it doesn't surprise anyone at all.

You are, if nothing else, consistent in your politics and your facts.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by clarise

And Stumbler/Kimiko call me a warmonger.

Sounds easy.

Just that our direct involvement invites retaliation by Russia and China. Yeah. Easy-peasy.

As to the Israelis, they most likely cannot do it without our ordinance. Assuming of course that you are suggesting they stay conventional, and do not go nuke.

Intervention by Russia and China is a legitimate concern. Nevertheless, they did nothing to help Iraq. The Soviet Union was still in existence then.

[shootersa]

Originally Posted by richief

It seems you do not like the truth being told, if you think that is an insult then you have led a sheltered life.



You have no grasp of military tactics, what do you hope to achieve with such a narrow bombing target, all you will do is encourage the mullahs that they are right about the US being the great satan. The airforce to bomb all suspected atomic facilities, why is this are they a threat to you, or is the reason you are wanting to attack a sovereign nation more hegemony, or is there a perceived threat, one you don't like, the fact that they may be building atomic weapons to equal what the Israelis have.

Now Richief; you need to ease up on DL. His plan would work. What he forgot to mention is that he plans to send the Tuskagee Airmen. You know, the niggas.............

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Intervention by Russia and China is a legitimate concern. Nevertheless, they did nothing to help Iraq. The Soviet Union was still in existence then.

Intervention by China? Very unlikely......

[shyguyy2]

Russia is not a threat to UNC Forces and China won't help because they seem to be stocking up for something (probably war agaist American forces in wich case I'll re-enlist).

[richief]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

Intervention by Russia and China is a legitimate concern. Nevertheless, they did nothing to help Iraq. The Soviet Union was still in existence then.

The Soviets ceased to exist in 1991, a long time before the invasion of Iraq.

M of F, yeah okay.

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by richief

The Soviets ceased to exist in 1991, a long time before the invasion of Iraq.

M of F, yeah okay.

I am talking about the first Gulf War.

BBC News

1991 27 February: The first Kuwaiti troops enter Kuwait City and President Bush announces the liberation of Kuwait. He announces the cessation of hostilities will be effective from 0400 GMT the following day. The allies say they have destroyed more than half the Iraqi divisions and captured 500,000 prisoners.

28 February: Iraq accepts all UN resolutions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/861164.stm

--------

On 25 December 1991, Gorbachev announced his resignation as Soviet president. The red hammer and sickle flag of the Soviet Union was lowered from the Senate building in the Kremlin and replaced with the tricolor flag of Russia. The next day, 26 December 1991, the Soviet Union officially ceased to exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_So...%A9tat_attempt

[richief]

For the previous 2 years the Kremlin and the Soviets were in disarray unable to garner any influence of foreign affairs so they were not a problem.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by Baddog_WOOF

No surprise you don't know what a tithe is, Clarise.
One tithes to a church based upon income, not net worth.

Romney is worth closer to $260 million based on his candidate filings in late 2011.

Sure, these are only two clear examples of how you were not even close to being right, but it doesn't surprise anyone at all.

You are, if nothing else, consistent in your politics and your facts.

Woof, yeah, woof. Okay. There's some dog poop on my face.

I am off on the income. I can't stand the man, and I try to avoid reading stories about him. My info is woefully old. I am recalling numbers from when he was governor here.

I am off on Obama's worth, too, by the way. I thought he was worth a lot more than he reportedly is at present. Not sure why. I do not like reading about him, either.

As for the temple in Belmont and Godiva's request for a source, I probably can't prove it. I am recalling stories from when the temple was built. All the recent stories on the Romney family's donations date from 2010 forward, and the Belmont temple is older than that.

But the current smear stories on Romney's finances woefully underestimate his charitable giving. The Romney family is known to have contributed around $5,000,000 to the Mormon Church in the last few years alone, some of it through a family foundation. When the Belmont temple was under construction, there was open speculation locally that it would be named for Romney, because local rumor had it that his family practically bankrolled it.

As for your jabs about tithing, all I gotta say is, chill out, dog. I know what tithing is. I was just throwing the net worth numbers out for sake of example. The same way you did in your own response.

[ladygodiva123]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

Russia is not a threat to UNC Forces and China won't help because they seem to be stocking up for something (probably war against American forces in which case I'll re-enlist).

Actually I saw an economist on the Daily Show talking about China "stocking up". It's really nothing nefarious. It's just that they have 1.3 billion people - 300 million living a fairly decent standard of living and 1 billion living in abject poverty. They know that resources are limited and they are simply planning ahead for their needs. The economist's name is Dr. Dambisa Moyo and her book is "Winner Take All: China's Race for Resources and What It Means For the World":

http://www.amazon.com/Winner-Take-Al...inner+take+all

[richief]

But, but DL implied that China was a place of intelligent utopia, with the highest IQs in the world, surely you are not implying unrest and disillusionment with the government.

[Intern]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

I suggest a huge parachute drop of very large solar powered stereo systems playing loud decedent American rock and roll music. If the British to to help we can include their bands in the playlist. That should bring them to their knees.

I think that I bought that album in 1970.

Was it by Three Dog Night or Ten Years After?

[Distant Lover]

Originally Posted by richief

But, but DL implied that China was a place of intelligent utopia, with the highest IQs in the world, surely you are not implying unrest and disillusionment with the government.

The highest estimated average IQ is in Hong Kong with an average of 107. Taiwan has an estimated average of 104. Mainland China has an estimated average IQ of 100. That is what is is in the UK. In the US it is 98.

http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

These estimates are collaborated by school performance. Finland is tops in reading. Japan is tops in Mathematics. South Korea is tops in science.

http://siteselection.com/ssinsider/s...t/sf011210.htm

The estimated average IQ for Finland is 97.

The estimated average IQ for Japan is 105.

The estimated average IQ for South Korea is 106.

[Old Tool]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

This is not a rational rebuttal of one of my arguments. It is a personal insult. As a result it is typical of what you post.

Why would anyone bother anymore - when you are given a rational rebuttal - supported by credible data - you simply ignore the rhetorical beating you are taking and re-post about your unblemished record as a Twister of Facts.

Since you are not a useful intellectual challenge, it only makes sense that you become fodder as a fool.

[richief]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

The highest estimated average IQ is in Hong Kong with an average of 107. Taiwan has an estimated average of 104. Mainland China has an estimated average IQ of 100. That is what is is in the UK. In the US it is 98.

http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

These estimates are collaborated by school performance. Finland is tops in reading. Japan is tops in Mathematics. South Korea is tops in science.

http://siteselection.com/ssinsider/s...t/sf011210.htm

The estimated average IQ for Finland is 97.

The estimated average IQ for Japan is 105.

The estimated average IQ for South Korea is 106.

Ivery much doubt that the figures for China are taken from a truly representative selection of their citizens, but rather from the cities where education is a priority, the poor farmers and those out in the backwoods.

[ladygodiva123]

Originally Posted by clarise

But the current smear stories on Romney's finances woefully underestimate his charitable giving. The Romney family is known to have contributed around $5,000,000 to the Mormon Church in the last few years alone, some of it through a family foundation. When the Belmont temple was under construction, there was open speculation locally that it would be named for Romney, because local rumor had it that his family practically bankrolled it.

As for your jabs about tithing, all I gotta say is, chill out, dog. I know what tithing is. I was just throwing the net worth numbers out for sake of example. The same way you did in your own response.

Hey, I'm not saying he doesn't make charitable donations, not at all. But he's the one that holds himself out as a good Mormon and the Mormon church requires a 10% tithe. 10% of ones income - EVERY YEAR. $5 million in the last several years would not be 10%. If his income from 2010 is any indicator, he gets at least $20 million from Bain as part of his retirement package every year. That would require at least a $2 million tithe to the Mormon church every year, no? And as I've said before, it would be easy for him to quell all the speculation. Just release his tax returns. Even people in the GOP are asking him to.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by clarise

Woof, yeah, woof. Okay. There's some dog poop on my face.

I am off on the income. I can't stand the man, and I try to avoid reading stories about him. My info is woefully old. I am recalling numbers from when he was governor here.

As for your jabs about tithing, all I gotta say is, chill out, dog. I know what tithing is. I was just throwing the net worth numbers out for sake of example. The same way you did in your own response.

Clarise,
I do not agree with Mr. Romney on most issues.
Not that Mr. Romney actually has any consistent stand on the issues.

Mr. Romney, unlike his father, is afraid to release his tax returns.
Besides the fact that Romney grew up on third base and acts like he hit a home run, why should he be afraid to release his tax returns?
He berates President Obama for demonizing success, but he is afraid of releasing his tax returns?

Clarise, you need to take the chill pill after I pointed out your misconception about tithing.
I thought you were smart enough to admit you were wrong about tithing after I demonstrated that you were wrong.
I was wrong to entertain such an idea.

[Baddog_WOOF]

Originally Posted by Distant Lover

The highest estimated average IQ is in Hong Kong with an average of 107. Taiwan has an estimated average of 104. Mainland China has an estimated average IQ of 100. That is what is is in the UK. In the US it is 98.

http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

These estimates are collaborated by school performance. Finland is tops in reading. Japan is tops in Mathematics. South Korea is tops in science.

http://siteselection.com/ssinsider/s...t/sf011210.htm

The estimated average IQ for Finland is 97.

The estimated average IQ for Japan is 105.

The estimated average IQ for South Korea is 106.

Early IQ tests were based upon guessing the weight of various rocks and reactions to being pricked with a pin.
There is little evidence that there has been any measurable improvement since the early tests.

[stumbler]

Romney got his book so wrong that Jared Diamond doubts he even read it

Mitt Romney has been taking a lot of heat for his remarks in Jerusalem asserting that the contrast between the relative economic well-being of Israelis and Palestinians is a matter of culture. He's been getting dinged by pundits, politicians and Palestinians. Now, one of the authors Romney mentioned in his speech has complained via a New York Times op-ed essay that the presumptive GOP presidential nominee misrepresented his views.



Jared Diamond, Pulitzer prize-winning author of the 15-year=old Germs, Guns and Steel, wrote in Thursday's newspaper: "[What the candidate said] is so different from what my book actually says that I have to doubt whether Mr. Romney read it."


Ouuuuuch.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...e-even-read-it

[stumbler]

Video: 2004 Mitt Romney Says It’s ‘Poppycock’ To Blame President For Job Market

Progressive SuperPAC American Bridge has dug up some video of Republican presidential candidate and then-Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, defending President George W. Bush‘s economic record in 2004, that’s spookily resonant to this year’s election. In the clip, Romney not only amusingly uses the word “poppycock” (one of the all-time underrated old man curse words and a delicious snack), he also urges voters not to blame the President for unforeseen catastrophes, and to ask “Do I stay with the president, who is rebuilding the economy, who is creating jobs, or do you want to stop mid-stream and find someone new?’”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/video...or-job-market/

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Video: 2004 Mitt Romney Says It’s ‘Poppycock’ To Blame President For Job Market




http://www.mediaite.com/online/video...or-job-market/

Really? So what was Obama doing in 2004 stumbler?

Let's see, here's a start:

The title of Obama’s recent book, The Audacity of Hope, is based on a sermon by Wright. (It’s worth noting, however, that, while Obama’s book is a coolheaded appeal for common ground in an age of political polarization, Wright’s sermon, “The Audacity to Hope,” is a fiery jeremiad about persevering in a world of nuclear arms and racial inequality.) Wright is one of the first people Obama thanked after his Senate victory in 2004, and he recently name-checked Wright in his speech to civil rights leaders in Selma, Alabama.

http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/04/j...former-muslim/

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

Really? So what was Obama doing in 2004 stumbler?

Let's see, here's a start:

The title of Obama’s recent book, The Audacity of Hope, is based on a sermon by Wright. (It’s worth noting, however, that, while Obama’s book is a coolheaded appeal for common ground in an age of political polarization, Wright’s sermon, “The Audacity to Hope,” is a fiery jeremiad about persevering in a world of nuclear arms and racial inequality.) Wright is one of the first people Obama thanked after his Senate victory in 2004, and he recently name-checked Wright in his speech to civil rights leaders in Selma, Alabama.

http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/04/j...former-muslim/

Obama Expands National Lead Over Romney to 10 Points in Pew Poll

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-pew-poll.html

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

Really? So what was Obama doing in 2004 stumbler?

Let's see, here's a start:

The title of Obama’s recent book, The Audacity of Hope, is based on a sermon by Wright. (It’s worth noting, however, that, while Obama’s book is a coolheaded appeal for common ground in an age of political polarization, Wright’s sermon, “The Audacity to Hope,” is a fiery jeremiad about persevering in a world of nuclear arms and racial inequality.) Wright is one of the first people Obama thanked after his Senate victory in 2004, and he recently name-checked Wright in his speech to civil rights leaders in Selma, Alabama.

http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/04/j...former-muslim/

Child sexual abuse in the world of Romney's top LDS donors

Little did I know how right that reporter was. I've been doing some reading about the LDS culture, and the duties of a Mormon bishop (like Mitt Romney) in particular. There's some pretty creepy stuff -- and a whole damned boatload of repressed sexual energy. We'll get to that later.


But first, what I'm coming up with are numerous accounts of child abuse -- and child sexual abuse, as spelled out in "Scout's Honor," an award-winning investigative series about how the LDS church and its Idaho Falls scouting program covered up for the sexual molestation of Scouts by a Mormon pedophile.


Funny thing: Peter Zuckerman, the reporter who did the series, was outed as gay in a full-page newspaper ad paid for by billionaire Frank VanderSloot, Romney campaign finance co-chair and chairman of Melaleuca, Inc., an MLM company. VanderSloot is famous for threatening reporters, bloggers and publications with lawsuits. He's also a major donor to the Restore Our Future superPAC.


I also discovered a long chain of stories about "ranches" and "camps" owned and run by very politically connected Utah Mormons - especially the World Wide Association of Specialty Schools, founded by Robert Lichfield, who was Mitt Romney's finance co-chair back in 2007. He either resigned or was asked to resign after the abuse stories broke:

Robert Lichfield, a businessman with no clinical training in psychology, formed the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs in 1998. The Utah-based organization promoted itself as an umbrella company that linked independently run programs operating under WWASP guidelines to families in need. Further investigations have revealed, however, that all programs were operated and run by family members and business associates of Robert Lichfield. WWASP operated programs both in the US and abroad.



Multiple lawsuits have led to the closure of all official WWASP facilities, though rumors persist that several schools have reopened under new company names. Accusations include locking children in dog cages, severe physical beatings, food and sleep deprivation, pepper spraying of minors, isolation, lack of communication to parents, unreported sexual abuse, unsanitary living conditions, and brainwashing/emotional abuse.

And you thought Mitt locking his dog in a cage on the car roof was bad? Kids were sent to these camps for crimes like being gay, or for refusing to attend early-morning LDS services.
Now, here's where it gets really interesting:

In 1997, Aspen Education Group was founded in part by Elliot Sainer. A subsidiary of CRC Health Group, Aspen Education is owned by Bain Capital Group, founded in 1984 by Mitt Romney. Aspen Education Group provides therapeutic programs for youth including wilderness therapy, residential treatment facilities, therapeutic boarding schools, and weight loss facilities. Aspen Education is one of the most profitable teen treatment chains, boasting annual revenue of $150 million plus.
According to an article by Keith Chu of The Bulletin, many of Aspen Education Group’s programs – including now defunct Mount Bachelor Academy – were based directly on the CEDU methods of treatment. Lauding support by celebrity figures such as Dr. Phil and several other TV programs including “Brat Camp,” “I Know What You Ate Last Summer,” and “Intervention,” Aspen Education has become one of the most revered and successful programs of its kind.



Recent lawsuits and scrutiny, however, have led to the closure of multiple facilities and a total restructure announced in March of 2011. Mount Bachelor Academy, once one of Aspen Education’s top programs, closed in 2009 after lawsuits alleging sexual reenactments of past sexual abuse in front of peers, sleep deprivation, forced lap dances as part of therapy, and emotional and physical abuse. Sagewalk, one of Aspen’s top wilderness therapy facilities, was called “reckless” by State authorities following the death of 16-year-old Sergey Blashchishen. At least four other teenagers have died under Aspen’s care. Criticisms of Aspen’s weight loss facilities have also indicated child abuse, noting that children within its care were subjected to diet plans of under 10 grams of fat daily.

From FamilyLight, a psychological consulting group which evaluates teen programs:

CRC Health Group, controlling the Aspen brand name, is not just a for-profit organization but it is owned by a private investment firm Bain Capital with a fiduciary responsibility to maximize return on investment. The reality is that the best care in therapeutic facilities is not necessarily the care that produces the greatest return on investment.



We would like to hear a commitment directly from Bain Capital that they have directed CRC Health Group to provide the highest quality of care they can, observing that while short-term financial gains might result from taking shortcuts, the long term best financial performance will result from delivering the highest quality services with the highest standards of ethics.

FamilyLight's stated concern is that the same extreme tactics are applied to every single child who enters their programs, not just defiant teens.


Next installment: Just like the Catholic Church, Mormon leaders reportedly persuade sexual abuse victims not to report cases to the authorities.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/test-19

[corbie]

Originally Posted by clarise

There is a dirty rumor going around that Mormons are pacifists. Not true, but many do conscientiously object.

As for Romney in particular, it could be he was too busy making money.

But it is equally possible that he is one of the conscientious objectors. He is heavily active in the Mormon Church. Here in Massachusetts, the Mormon Church built a huge temple on a hilltop in Belmont (and riled the local Catholic diocese by erecting a steeple more than three times higher than the Catholic bell tower). Mitt and Ann Romney were such big donors to that construction project (some say upwards of $30 million) that the building could justifiably have been named after them.

So possibly Romney is simply a man of God.

Mormons as a matter of official faith are not concientious objectors. To the best of my knowledge, the only faiths that have that as official policy or doctrine are the Quakers and Jevovah's Witnesses. All of the men in my family till me have served military time. The recruiter stopped talking to me after I told him my knee had been rebuilt and I had a screw in it. My brother-in-law did 20 years active duty Navy.

As for Romney "building" the Massachussets Temple that's a misconception. The LDS leadership decides on locations for temples based on LDS/Mormon population density, and active participation in the Church within that area. The Boston Temple not only serves Massachussets, but most of New England as well. The church pays for the building of the temples, not individual members. Active/devout members contribute a 10% tithing to the chuch on a montly basis, based upon their earnings. Also devout members of the faith fast on the first Sunday of each month and contribute the equivalent of the cost of two meals to the church's welfare funds from that fast. Members can also voluntarily contribute to the church's temple fund and other charitable programs the LDS church runs. Romney's $30 million was from his tithing and other contributions.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by corbie

Mormons as a matter of official faith are not concientious objectors. To the best of my knowledge, the only faiths that have that as official policy or doctrine are the Quakers and Jevovah's Witnesses. All of the men in my family till me have served military time. The recruiter stopped talking to me after I told him my knee had been rebuilt and I had a screw in it. My brother-in-law did 20 years active duty Navy.

As for Romney "building" the Massachussets Temple that's a misconception. The LDS leadership decides on locations for temples based on LDS/Mormon population density, and active participation in the Church within that area. The Boston Temple not only serves Massachussets, but most of New England as well. The church pays for the building of the temples, not individual members. Active/devout members contribute a 10% tithing to the chuch on a montly basis, based upon their earnings. Also devout members of the faith fast on the first Sunday of each month and contribute the equivalent of the cost of two meals to the church's welfare funds from that fast. Members can also voluntarily contribute to the church's temple fund and other charitable programs the LDS church runs. Romney's $30 million was from his tithing and other contributions.

Thanks very much for this wonderful response.

I have already apologized to a poster above for being unable to corroborate the $30 million figure with a source, but at the time of the temple's construction, that was the number being bandied about locally, in terms of the Romney family's contributions generally. And there is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest that the number is reasonable.

Just to be clear, I never claimed that his family specifically designated or "restricted" $30 million to the temple itself. I was merely making the point that the Mormon Church most assuredly does not regard him as a scofflaw.

While Romney did not literally build the temple, I have heard stories that his family did make possible the installation of a beautiful pipe organ there. I am not Mormon and have never been in the building myself, so I do not know whether that is true.

___________________

Incidentally, and at risk of politicizing things again, Harry Reid and his filthy lies have two hilarious ironies:

First, Harry himself has never held a private sector job of consequence, and he is said to be worth about $10 million. He lives in the Ritz Carlton hotel and only makes $191,000 per year as a senator. Where did all his money come from? His only real "job" was a brief stint on the Nevada Gaming Commission. And he has never revealed his own tax returns. Methinks he might protest just a little bit too much.

The other irony, and a much bigger one in my opinion, is that Governor Mitt Romney of Massachusetts did not pay income tax on his salary for the governorship, because he declined compensation! That's right. He worked as governor of Massachusetts for a token salary of $1.00 per year.

He may also have declined compensation to work for the Winter Olympics, although I am not sure about that.

Ahh, yes. A real robber baron, he.

[stumbler]

Well at least Mitt Romney has Rush Limbaugh on his side.

Limbaugh Claims Americans Don't Want Romney To Release Tax Returns -- But They Do

Rush Limbaugh continued to defend Mitt Romney's refusal to release his tax returns by claiming that Americans aren't interested in seeing Romney's tax returns. In fact, polls show that a majority of Americans want Romney to release his tax returns.


On his show today, Limbaugh declared that "there's not a normal person anywhere" who wants Romney to release more tax returns. He added: "The American people are not chomping at the bit here to have this question answered. It's purely, totally fabricated. The media knows that it's been fabricated; it's a lie."


In fact, polling reveals the opposite is true: The American people do want the question of Romney's tax returns answered. A July USAToday/Gallup poll found that a majority of people believe Romney should release additional years of tax returns:



A Public Policy Polling survey found that 61 percent of Independents believe Romney should release his tax returns for the last 12 years.
Additionally, a growing chorus of Republicans and conservatives have called for Romney to release more of his returns.


But Limbaugh has continued to staunchly defend Romney's refusal to release additional years of his tax returns. Just last week, Limbaugh advised Romney to avoid releasing his returns while challenging President Obama to release his college transcripts to prove he received passing grades. In fact, there is no precedent for presidents or presidential candidates to release their academic records, whereas presidential candidates are expected to release several years' worth of tax returns.


This is not the first time Limbaugh has resorted to distorting public opinion to make a point.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08...ey-to-r/189162

[CS natureboy]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Well at least Mitt Romney has Rush Limbaugh on his side.

Limbaugh Claims Americans Don't Want Romney To Release Tax Returns -- But They Do




http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08...ey-to-r/189162

Romney's tax returns are being kept safe and secure along with Obama's school grades and real birth certificate.....

[corbie]

When Mitt took over as CEO of the Utah Olympic Commitee, it was a mess. Not so much because of any malfescence (sp) on the part of the commitee, but it was at the time when everyone decided they weren't going to play the business as usual game with the IOC members anymore. Anyway, Mitt said he would work do the work as the CEO for the salary of $1 per year. However if the Winter Games made a profit, he would take a salary retroactively. I don't remember what that amount was. And the 2002 Winter Olympic Games made a profit. One of the few that have. They structured everything so the venues that needed to be built for the Games would continue to be used--unlike the Bejing games where they essentially mothballed the huge Bird's Nest Stadium after the games. The venues continue to make a profit. They structured the money flow from the games--and post games--so that the profit generated would be available to help upgrade the facilities as the years pass. Many of those facilities are now top training sites for winter sports. Apollo Anton Ohno has one of his houses in Utah, so he can continue to train at the Oval, Shawn White also maintains one of his houses in Utah as well.

One of the other sad ironies about the Democratic attacks on Mitt Romney, came when DNC national Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, began criticizing his off-shore and Swiss bank accounts. Only to have it revealed that she herself has those same things. Nancy Pelosi herself is worth near $100 million. Then we can talk about John Kerry and his money, or the Kennedy family money and their exclusive family compounds scattered all across the country. Real man of the people, rub shoulders with the average Joe, those Kennedys are.

[stumbler]

Romney Proposes $80 Million Tax Cut for His Family

The U.S. tax code may be difficult to grasp, but understanding the presidential candidates' plans for it doesn't have to be. President Obama wants to raise his own taxes, while Mitt Romney wants to dramatically reduce the already small slice he pays to Uncle Sam.



Of course, that simplification doesn't shed light on just how dramatic President Romney's windfall for his family would actually be. Mitt's plan, which the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center forecast would cut taxes for the richest five percent of earners while increasing the tax bill for the other 95 percent of Americans, could slash his own annual IRS payment by almost half. And by eliminating the estate tax, the $250 million man would potentially divert $80 million (and possibly more) from the United States Treasury to his own heirs

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/r...for-his-family

[stumbler]

Now in a society where the majority of people get their news and information in 30 second sound bites and catch phrases this could be trouble for Romney because it just might stick in people's minds.

'Romney Hood' Slam: Obama Derides Mitt's Tax Plan

STAMFORD, Conn. -- President Barack Obama is labeling opponent Mitt Romney's tax plan as "Romney Hood," saying it takes from the poor and gives to the rich.


Speaking Monday night at a campaign event in Connecticut, Obama said the GOP plan "is like Robin Hood in reverse."


Obama says Romney's tax plan would give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans while forcing middle-class families to pay up to $2,000 a year in additional taxes.


The president cites a study by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center that says millionaires would receive a tax cut of approximately $250,000 a year if the former Massachusetts governor gets his way.
Romney has said he wants further tax cuts, including for the wealthy, as a part of his economic plan, although he has been vague about details.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ss&ir=Business

[stumbler]

Mitt Romney Ad Criticizes Obama For Welfare Policy Romney Supported As Governor

WASHINGTON -- Mitt Romney's presidential campaign released a television ad Tuesday bashing President Barack Obama for implementing a welfare policy that Romney supported when he was governor of Massachusetts.


"In 1996, President Clinton and a bipartisan Congress helped end welfare as we know it," the ad's voiceover says. "But on July 12th, President Obama quietly announced a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements."


Welfare, formally known as the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, is administered by states within federal rules. Last month, the Department of Health and Human Services invited states to apply for waivers from some rules in order to run "demonstration projects" so that states could "consider new, more effective ways to meet the goals of TANF, particularly helping parents successfully prepare for, find, and retain employment."

Romney's ad doesn't mention that Republican states sought the waiver policy. In a release defending its waiver request from conservative backlash last month, the office of Utah Gov. Richard Herbert (R) said, "Utah's request for a waiver stems from a desire for increased customization of the program to maximize employment among Utah’s welfare recipients."


The ad also doesn't mention that the Republican Governors Association asked Congress for even broader welfare waivers in 2005, in a letter signed by 29 Republican governors, including Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1750675.html

[anon_de_plume]

Originally Posted by CS natureboy

Romney's tax returns are being kept safe and secure along with Obama's school grades and real birth certificate.....

You birthers...

[clarise]

Originally Posted by anon_de_plume

You birthers...

Nope. Not a birther. And I'm not either.

You can't dismiss it like that, anymore. Doesn't fly.

He was born in Hawaii. Fine.

But we want to know how the idiot got into Occidental as an American citizen, or did he check the box and go the Affirmative Action route?

Did the idiot apply as a foreign exchange student? Is that how he sneaked onto the matriculation rolls?

And that is to say nothing of Columbia.

No way, no way in hell, did the cognitively deficit moron make it into Columbia-- no fucking way on God's green earth, did that goddamned dipshit transfer into IVY without checking himself off as either an Indonesian national or a Kenyan national.

We want to know how the idiot got into school.

He started out as an American citizen. We are not birthers. What we want to know is whether he forfeited his citizenship along the way from Jakarta to Harvard.

Because, if the moron checked a box anywhere along the way, that is exactly what he did.

Read the fine print on your U.S. Passport, if you have one.

I will express an inkling of curiosity about Romney's tax records when Obama produces his college boards, achievement exam scores, and college applications.

[ace's n 8's]

Originally Posted by stumbler

Mitt Romney Ad Criticizes Obama For Welfare Policy Romney Supported As Governor




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1750675.html

I tell ya,, you leftists are some kind of something.......

States rights,, the state has the right to fund anything that the state wants to fund for their state's residence,, the federal government does not afford that right.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by corbie

When Mitt took over as CEO of the Utah Olympic Commitee, it was a mess. Not so much because of any malfescence (sp) on the part of the commitee, but it was at the time when everyone decided they weren't going to play the business as usual game with the IOC members anymore. Anyway, Mitt said he would work do the work as the CEO for the salary of $1 per year. However if the Winter Games made a profit, he would take a salary retroactively. I don't remember what that amount was. And the 2002 Winter Olympic Games made a profit. One of the few that have. They structured everything so the venues that needed to be built for the Games would continue to be used--unlike the Bejing games where they essentially mothballed the huge Bird's Nest Stadium after the games. The venues continue to make a profit. They structured the money flow from the games--and post games--so that the profit generated would be available to help upgrade the facilities as the years pass. Many of those facilities are now top training sites for winter sports. Apollo Anton Ohno has one of his houses in Utah, so he can continue to train at the Oval, Shawn White also maintains one of his houses in Utah as well.

One of the other sad ironies about the Democratic attacks on Mitt Romney, came when DNC national Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, began criticizing his off-shore and Swiss bank accounts. Only to have it revealed that she herself has those same things. Nancy Pelosi herself is worth near $100 million. Then we can talk about John Kerry and his money, or the Kennedy family money and their exclusive family compounds scattered all across the country. Real man of the people, rub shoulders with the average Joe, those Kennedys are.

+1


Yep.

Romney worked for free as Massachusetts Governor. $1.00 per year was his salary.

Does anyone know if he worked without compensation for the Olympics? That is the rumor, but I don't have proof.

Meanwhile, Reid hasn't revealed his own tax returns in decades and has never explained how he, a laborer's son and lifetime public servant, came to be worth around $10 million.

And Pelosi... that fucking bitch. 'nuff said.

[Whitey44]

Originally Posted by clarise

Nope. Not a birther. And I'm not either.

You can't dismiss it like that, anymore. Doesn't fly.

He was born in Hawaii. Fine.

But we want to know how the idiot got into Occidental as an American citizen, or did he check the box and go the Affirmative Action route?

Did the idiot apply as a foreign exchange student? Is that how he sneaked onto the matriculation rolls?

And that is to say nothing of Columbia.

No way, no way in hell, did the cognitively deficit moron make it into Columbia-- no fucking way on God's green earth, did that goddamned dipshit transfer into IVY without checking himself off as either an Indonesian national or a Kenyan national.

We want to know how the idiot got into school.

He started out as an American citizen. We are not birthers. What we want to know is whether he forfeited his citizenship along the way from Jakarta to Harvard.

Because, if the moron checked a box anywhere along the way, that is exactly what he did.

Read the fine print on your U.S. Passport, if you have one.

I will express an inkling of curiosity about Romney's tax records when Obama produces his college boards, achievement exam scores, and college applications.

So what if he got into college with the help of affirmative action. Rich white people have been buying their kids way into the best schools forever. What matters is that he finished. College degrees are earned. Good Professors ensure that. When I taught, my students got what they earned. Laziness, dishonesty, and not being interested in the course material lead to bad grades.

His mother was a US born citizen. Obama birthers don't like to focus on that detail.

[tommyturtle]

If Reid is allowed to speculate that Romney is hiding something by not releasing his tax returns, then the other side should be able to speculate that Obama is hiding something by not releasing his school records. It wouldn't bother me if he got the money through Affirmative Action. Why won't he admit it? What's he hiding? I got my education through a federally insured student loan which I paid back in full several years ahead of its due date.

[shootersa]

Without commenting on the whole "What's he got to hide" thing, isn't it ironic that Obama's camp staunchly defended his right to privacy in terms of his birth certificate, school records, etc. and now they are raising eight kinds of hell about Romney not releasing his tax returns?

And you know Romney said somewhere sometime that Obama ought to be open with America about his past if he wanted their trust.

The irony just leaves me speechless.

These two ought to get their poop units grouped better. This is embarrassing.

[anon_de_plume]

You know, why not find some of his classmates that were in school with him and ask them... or how about his instructors? I'm sure you will find someone willing to "swiftboat" Obama.

So far all that has been raised about this crap is just naysayers that don't like the man. And, yes, some of them are birthers, and some of them are even in Congress.

Also, your bias against him shows by your repeated use of the word "idiot"... I'm sure that someone such as yourself should be able to debate circles around an idiot. I doubt you could debate Obama.

Originally Posted by clarise

Nope. Not a birther. And I'm not either.

You can't dismiss it like that, anymore. Doesn't fly.

He was born in Hawaii. Fine.

But we want to know how the idiot got into Occidental as an American citizen, or did he check the box and go the Affirmative Action route?

Did the idiot apply as a foreign exchange student? Is that how he sneaked onto the matriculation rolls?

And that is to say nothing of Columbia.

No way, no way in hell, did the cognitively deficit moron make it into Columbia-- no fucking way on God's green earth, did that goddamned dipshit transfer into IVY without checking himself off as either an Indonesian national or a Kenyan national.

We want to know how the idiot got into school.

He started out as an American citizen. We are not birthers. What we want to know is whether he forfeited his citizenship along the way from Jakarta to Harvard.

Because, if the moron checked a box anywhere along the way, that is exactly what he did.

Read the fine print on your U.S. Passport, if you have one.

I will express an inkling of curiosity about Romney's tax records when Obama produces his college boards, achievement exam scores, and college applications.

[ladygodiva123]

Originally Posted by shootersa

Without commenting on the whole "What's he got to hide" thing, isn't it ironic that Obama's camp staunchly defended his right to privacy in terms of his birth certificate, school records, etc. and now they are raising eight kinds of hell about Romney not releasing his tax returns?

And you know Romney said somewhere sometime that Obama ought to be open with America about his past if he wanted their trust.

The irony just leaves me speechless.

These two ought to get their poop units grouped better. This is embarrassing.

It became standard operating procedure for presidential candidates to release several years of tax returns when GEORGE ROMNEY first did it in 1968. It is NOT standard procedure to examine candidates college records. The only records that have come out in recent memory were George W. Bush's records from Yale. Those were leaked illegally.

Obama graduated with a JD, magna cum laude. He was selected to be an editor of the Harvard Law Review his first year and made the president his second year. How much fucking documentation do you need? He was elected president. You didn't vote for him and you won't vote for him again. Give it a rest.

[stumbler]

Originally Posted by ace's n 8's

I tell ya,, you leftists are some kind of something.......

States rights,, the state has the right to fund anything that the state wants to fund for their state's residence,, the federal government does not afford that right.

Well gee Ace you not only just proved Mitt Romney wrong you also just supported President Obama's position which is THE STATES SHOULD HAVE PERMISSION TO EXPERIMENT WITH THEIR WELFARE TO WORK PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF A SINGLE FEDERALLY MANDATED PROGRAM.

That's why the Obama administration is granting wavers for some states to try new and innovative programs.

You just really blew that one right your ass, Ace.

[stumbler]

Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads

While they were on the lookout for investments in the United States, members of some of these prominent families -- including the Salaverria, Poma, de Sola and Dueñas clans -- were also at the time financing, either directly or through political parties, death squads in El Salvador. The ruling classes were deploying the death squads to beat back left-wing guerrillas and reformers during El Salvador's civil war.


The death squads committed atrocities on such a mass scale for so small a country that their killing spree sparked international condemnation. From 1979 to 1992, some 75,000 people were killed in the Salvadoran civil war, according to the United Nations. In 1982, two years before Romney began raising money from the oligarchs, El Salvador's independent Human Rights Commission reported that, of the 35,000 civilians killed, "most" died at the hands of death squads. A United Nations truth commission concluded in 1993 that 85 percent of the acts of violence were perpetrated by the right, while the left-wing Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front, which was supported by the Cuban government, was responsible for 5 percent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1710133.html

[stumbler]

Holy shit this is so hilarious I'm going to have to put it on two threads at least.

TPM2012

Team Romney Scares Conservatives By Touting ‘Romneycare’

Mitt Romney’s campaign is giving conservatives quite a scare this week by touting Romney’s Massachusetts health care overhaul — a subject Romney has gone to great lengths to avoid.



Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul brought up the law in response to a Priorities USA ad in which a steelworker, who lost his job after Bain Capital closed the GST Steel mill where he worked, connects his unemployment — and resulting lack of health insurance — to the death of his wife.



Team Romney’s response: He should have lived in Massachusetts.
On two Fox News appearances Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, Saul countered that if the steelworker, Joe Soptic, and his wife had lived in Massachusetts, they would have kept their insurance under Romney’s health care reform law.


“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Gov. Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Saul said Tuesday.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...re.php?ref=fpa