hiroshima anniversary

[Pandorius999]

So today was the 67th anniversary of the bombing. What have we learnt in these years? Reflections ? Can it happen again (in a different country ofcourse) ?

[shyguyy2]

I can happen again but probably won't. No one has the balls to use one now that the USA is no longer the only one with the tech.

[Pandorius999]

Quite true. Sometimes I wonder if the weakening of NPT was good or bad. Then again they have to be kept put of reach of unstable regimes who don't have conventional firepower to take on another state.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Pandorius999

Quite true. Sometimes I wonder if the weakening of NPT was good or bad. Then again they have to be kept put of reach of unstable regimes who don't have conventional firepower to take on another state.

Agreed, Althow most people know that if they were to use the nukes they would start WWIII and no one would survive. Well not many at least, I could because my dad built a bunker in the 1980's but I wouldn't want to.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

Agreed, Althow most people know that if they were to use the nukes they would start WWIII and no one would survive.

The threat nowadays is from the kind of lunatic that wouldn't care if they do survive; a suicide bomber with a nuclear device could wipe out a city.

That's why a nuclear deterrent isn't much of a deterrent any more.

[richief]

Because there are nuclear weapons we now have to keep nukes, if the sensible countries disposed of theirs then the they would be under the nuclear threat of the other nations, so sadly we need them.

I do not see a conventional strike happening but I can imagine a suitcase bomb being detonated, I also imagine the response would be not a nuclear one but rather a lot of surgical strikes to hit the terrorists in their hidey holes with no care for collateral deaths, unless of course you can prove it was detonated by a sovereign state, but who would be that crazy.

[shyguyy2]

I prefer Napalm over surgical strikes myself.
Of course I've called in a few strikes in my day on targets I couldn't engage with my sniper rifle.

[darthel0101]

Originally Posted by Pandorius999

So today was the 67th anniversary of the bombing. What have we learnt in these years? Reflections ? Can it happen again (in a different country ofcourse) ?

We have learned how to selectively edit history.

The many which were killed directly by those bombs (either blast or radiation poisoning) were just a fraction of the number which would have died if the islands were actually invaded. An invasion would have had other effects as well to the infrastructure and capabilities of Japan to recover from the war. It would likely NOT have ended with the emperor proclaiming that he was not a god but would have ended with their society clinging to a dead god shrouded in honor while they continued to whittle at the invaders.

Do a study on the mindset of the wartime Japanese and be prepared for some outre' lessons.

[shyguyy2]

More people were killed at the battle for Stalingrad than there were with both nuclear bombs combined.

[RickO'Shay]

Originally Posted by darthel0101

We have learned how to selectively edit history.

The many which were killed directly by those bombs (either blast or radiation poisoning) were just a fraction of the number which would have died if the islands were actually invaded. An invasion would have had other effects as well to the infrastructure and capabilities of Japan to recover from the war. It would likely NOT have ended with the emperor proclaiming that he was not a god but would have ended with their society clinging to a dead god shrouded in honor while they continued to whittle at the invaders.

Do a study on the mindset of the wartime Japanese and be prepared for some outre' lessons.

They brought it around 8am Dec 7, 1941. We answered.

[shootersa]

Nagasaki and Hiroshima were as necessary as Okinawa and Normandy. When other countries got "the bomb" Mutually Assured Destruction kept everyone's finger off the button.

Now that every half assed terrorist wanna be actually has a chance to maybe obtain the bomb the rules have changed.......again.

Now, the old deterrence approach doesn't work, unless we're talking a nation going rogue. Now we need a better way to track and detect nuclear weapons.And maybe to disarm them from a distance, like maybe directed radio commands, or laser beams or long range spit ball guns or something.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by shootersa

And maybe to disarm them from a distance, like maybe directed radio commands, or laser beams or long range spit ball guns or something.

Thats what the Patriot Missile System was developed for. At least Russia got all it's ICBM's acounted for after the fall of the USSR.

[SilverLycan]

I chose all three choices for this poll.

First, I would love to live in a world free from nuclear weapons, but I'd like to see more use of nuclear power.
The baser, more animal side of me supports the use of nuclear weapons, and would rather see the middle east nuked back to the fucking Precambrian. Such thoughts are probably unhealthy to focus on, so I find constructive ways to vent that... Frustration.

Third, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is. I'm a peasant, I don't get to influence things like military strategy or government decisions.

[Druidoak]

What I regret on this date is that Tokyo was not hit first and that we did not drop more. 10 sounds like a good round number. You know why? Because the fuckers would of done it to us if they had gotten them first. If you don't think so, you don't know shit about Jap culture past and present.

[richief]

The two that were dropped were enough to get the Japanese to the table and offer unconditional surrender, dropping another eight would have hampered the US's rebuilding programme and the need for barracks that did not glow gently in the night

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by shootersa

Nagasaki and Hiroshima were as necessary as Okinawa and Normandy.

Nagasaki was destroyed before the Japanese had a chance to respond to Hiroshima. How is that "necessary?"

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

What I regret on this date is that Tokyo was not hit first and that we did not drop more. 10 sounds like a good round number. You know why? Because the fuckers would of done it to us if they had gotten them first.

It's important to you that your country proves itself every bit as monstrously evil as the Japanese, then.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Nagasaki was destroyed before the Japanese had a chance to respond to Hiroshima. How is that "necessary?"

The Jananese had 2 days thats long enough and they wouldn't have stopped after the first one because they thought it was fluke.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

The Jananese had 2 days thats long enough

Not when the US ambassador won't talk to them, it isn't. If you're not going to talk to them, you can wait a year before dropping the second bomb and you still can't claim that it was necessary.

[Druidoak]

Originally Posted by richief

The two that were dropped were enough to get the Japanese to the table and offer unconditional surrender, dropping another eight would have hampered the US's rebuilding programme and the need for barracks that did not glow gently in the night

See that is something else I don't understand, why the fuck did we rebuild them, we should of taken them over, we won for chrits sake. The same for Germany, Italy and also Russia, we could see even then that Russia was going to be a pain.

[Druidoak]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

It's important to you that your country proves itself every bit as monstrously evil as the Japanese, then.

They attached us, you never ever leave an enemy in a way that they can ever attach you again. As proof, WWII would not have happened if Germany had been totaly destroyed in WWI.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Not when the US ambassador won't talk to them, it isn't. If you're not going to talk to them, you can wait a year before dropping the second bomb and you still can't claim that it was necessary.

I wanted to drop one of our thermal nukes on Afghanistan after 9/11. That should be America's strategy put it out there that if we are ever attacked by anyone the host country will be nuked till they are glass.

[SilverLycan]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

I wanted to drop one of our thermal nukes on Afghanistan after 9/11. That should be America's strategy put it out there that if we are ever attacked by anyone the host country will be nuked till they are glass.

That's the most sensible sounding thing I've heard in years, man. If only people weren't pussies.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by SilverLycan

That's the most sensible sounding thing I've heard in years, man. If only people weren't pussies.

Thank You and Yes there are way to many pussies.

[Lioness]

The Japanese didn't have to bomb our fleet at Pearl Harbor, but they did it anyway...it was only 3 1/2 years LATER that they wanted to surrender...

There are also conflicting stories about whether Truman knew they wanted to surrender before the bomb was dropped.

A 100,000 people were killed in Tokyo bombings earlier and Japan still didn't stop.

[Lioness]

19 Feb: 119 B-29 bombers hit the port and Tokyo urban areas.
Night of 24-25 Feb: 174 B-29 bombers dropped incendiary bombs and destroyed about 3 square kilometer of the city, or about 28,000 buildings.
4 Mar: 159 B-29 bombers attacked Tokyo urban areas.
Night of 9-10 Mar, Operation Meetinghouse: 279 B-29 bombers dropped incendiary bombs and destroyed 267,000 buildings and homes or 41 square kilometers of Tokyo. Americans estimated 88,000 killed, 41,000 injured, and 1,000,000 displaced. Tokyo Fire Department estimated 97,000 killed and 125,000 wounded. Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department estimated 124,711 casualties and 286,358 destroyed buildings and homes.
2 Apr: More than 100 B-29 bombers attacked the Nakajima aircraft factory.
3 Apr: 68 B-29 bombers attacked the Koizuimi aircraft factory and Tokyo urban areas.
7 Apr: 101 B-29 bombers attacked the Nakajima aircraft factory.
13 Apr: More than 300 B-29 bombers attacked military targets in and near Tokyo.
15 Apr: 109 B-29 bombers attacked Tokyo urban areas.
26 Apr: 464 B-29 bombers attacked Tokyo urban areas south of the Imperial Palace.
24 May: 520 B-29 bombers attacked urban and industrial areas south of the Imperial Palace.
20 Jul: A B-29 bomber failed to attack the Imperial Palace with a large "Pumpkin bomb".
8 Aug: About 60 B-29 bombers attacked aircraft factories and arsenals near Tokyo.
10 Aug: 70 B-29 bombers attacked the arsenal complex near Tokyo.

[shootersa]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Nagasaki was destroyed before the Japanese had a chance to respond to Hiroshima. How is that "necessary?"

The Japanese were invited to see the test. They declined. We dropped on Hiroshima and told them what the bomb was, that they had 48 hours to surrender, and if not we would be back. They did respond; they essentially told us to go to hell. You see, the Swiss were the route through which we communicated with Japan. We dropped on Nagasaki, and even then most of the Japanese military were all for continuing the war. Russia declared war on Japan, and the Minister of Japanese war made preparations to institute Martial Law, primarily to prevent anyone from negotiating for peace. We would have dropped more bombs, but the fact is, we didn't HAVE anymore; Paul Tibbets and the Enola Gay were ordered back to the US to pick up a third bomb when Japan surrendered.....six days after Nagasaki.

Not necessary? Read your history, then ask the question.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by shootersa

The Japanese were invited to see the test. They declined. We dropped on Hiroshima and told them what the bomb was, that they had 48 hours to surrender, and if not we would be back. They did respond; they essentially told us to go to hell. You see, the Swiss were the route through which we communicated with Japan. We dropped on Nagasaki, and even then most of the Japanese military were all for continuing the war. Russia declared war on Japan, and the Minister of Japanese war made preparations to institute Martial Law, primarily to prevent anyone from negotiating for peace. We would have dropped more bombs, but the fact is, we didn't HAVE anymore; Paul Tibbets and the Enola Gay were ordered back to the US to pick up a third bomb when Japan surrendered.....six days after Nagasaki.

Not necessary? Read your history, then ask the question.

+1

[lenben]

Originally Posted by Pandorius999

So today was the 67th anniversary of the bombing. What have we learnt in these years? Reflections ? Can it happen again (in a different country ofcourse) ?

A little actual history for you all: When the war in Europe ended, the Soviets were massing troops North of Japan for a full scale invasion. This was well known to the U.S. at the time, and this was an era of anti-communist fear. The fear at the time was that the Soviets indeed would invade and we already had the example of Europe as to whether they would retreat once they had their feet on the ground.
Truman's advisors strongly advised the use of the bomb, less out of concern about the death rate of a full scale invasion, but more to bring Japan rapidly to their knees so that the Soviets would not get ambitious. This is the TRUE story of why the bomb was released, and marks a significant early event in the cold war. Obviously it worked as the Soviets could not invade (they still claim a few of the Northern islands in dispute with Japan).
Another issue: Germany was sorry for its atrocities and has tried to atone in many ways- economically, legally, and especially in educating their children of their misbehavior. Japan never has admitted to any of its atrocities. Their history books literally say that WWII began with the dropping of the A bombs and Japan surrendered 4 days later. They have never apologized for the rape of Nanking, atrocities throughout China, the Bataan death march, their version of concentration and torture camps let alone Pearl Harbor.
We built Japan up after the war as a bulwark against the Soviets and in fact for a while Japan, with our help, eventually became a world economic power.

[darthel0101]

BTW - to those who lay Pearl Harbor out as justification for the bomb (I DON'T)
There were three locations for the Pacific Fleet to have been moored: Lahaina Roads (an OPEN area between the islands), Pearl, and San Diego; FDR had moved the fleet to Pearl in early 41. Note that Hawaii was at the limit of Japanese logistical support to launch an attack; can anybody say plum hanging just within reach?
The US had just increased the embargo of strategic imports (OIL) and Japan had been getting upset about those restrictions; please note that war with Japan had been a recognized danger since the 20s.
The one base which did NOT have a decoder for the code which was used to deliver the declaration of war and it should have is Pearl itself (actually HYPO, located in one of the buildings at Pearl).
The harbor itself was of a depth which prior to November 1940 (look up Taranto) would have been considered too shallow to use air-dropped torpedoes.
The fleet had been out on training exercise prior to the attack but three ships had issues with returning and were not in the harbor: Enterprise, Lexinton, and Saratoga. ------- My personal opinion is that once is chance, twice is coincidence, but three times is enemy action and for all three to be held up during supposed peace-time operations is a little TOO thick for me to accept. ------- Yamamoto WANTED those flattops and their lack was a major contributor to the decision to not launch a third wave against Pearl. Remember that The Lady was one of two who stopped the advance of the Imperial Navy at Coral Sea (the first naval battle where the opposing forces ships never saw each other) and the Enterprise was involved with Doolittle's raid (the first air strike against the Japanese home islands).

Prior to Pearl Harbor, popular sentiment was only barely against the Japanese, AFTER Pearl, you had the American concentration camps and no inclination for non-intervention in SEAsia.

[ridgerunner]

the choice to harbor at pearl was a strategic decision
san diego would have taken too long to react to a mainland strike

December 8, 1941 the us declares war on japan following the stike at pearl

do you belive the japanese had no methods of reaching the mainland

a Japanese Zero fighter plane from
World War II that went on to be of inestimable value to the United States.
Aviation buffs and historians know it as Kogas Zero, for the name of its
pilot, or as the Akutan or Aleutian Zero, for the crash site. The photo was
taken in mid-July 1942 by a Navy photographers mate named Arthur W

Bauman on Akutan Island in Alaskas remote Aleutian chain.


after that japanese bombers attacked dutch harbor while zeros struck at will


they had a chance they refused the found out what the consequences were

as for nukes they make no sense everyone has them and 1 is all it takes to destroy all mankind once the radioactive winter hits

but i still thin that we should have done all due dilligence and just erased that country from the map when we had the chance

[darthel0101]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

… as for nukes they make no sense everyone has them and 1 is all it takes to destroy all mankind once the radioactive winter hits…

One bomb ?????
What about Bikini Atoll?

Castle Bravo had the greatest yield of any U.S. nuclear test, 15 MT

If one bomb were going to be the cause of nuclear winter, that one would have been it.
Most bombs today are much smaller scale and the effects desired by terroristic factions would be leaning towards contamination instead of blast - greater political fallout would be caused (pun intended).

I respect your service but I am beginning to lose respect for your intelligence.

BTW - for nuclear winter to affect all mankind, it would need to originate on the Equator (or thereabouts). Since the LION'S share of nuke capable nations are far north of that line, the likelihood would be that areas SOUTH would be able to survive. I actually have more fear of Yellowstone inducing VOLCANIC winter than of any NUCLEAR winter caused by nationalistic or terroristic threats.

BTW - working with flat maps must have warped your brain.
Using a distance calculator here, I found that:
The distance from Tokyo to Akutan is 2865.8mi/4612.1Km
The distance from Tokyo to Hawaii is 3966.6mi/6383.5Km
The distance from Tokyo to Seattle is 4791.8mi/7711.6Km
The distance from Tokyo to San Diego is 5592.2mi/8999.7Km

The distance from Tokyo to D.C. is 6789.8mi/10927.2Km but from San Diego to D.C. is 2275.3mi/3661.7Km. How does 5592.2mi/8999.7Km + 2275.3mi/3661.7Km = 6789.8mi/10927.2Km ????? Try looking at a globe instead of a map.

The only Japanese attacks on the lower 48 were balloons.

ALSO, the crash site you mentioned was during the diversion for Midway. The aircraft WAS of inestimable value but was NOT indicative of any ability to attack the mainland. I can see that although you have military experience, you were not involved in basic OCS training about tactics.

Stick to what you KNOW instead of what you THINK and quit proving yourself to be LESS THAN YOU WISH.

[ridgerunner]

Type

Submarine-launched ballistic missile


Place of origin

United States


Service history


In service

1961-1996


Used by

United States Navy, Royal Navy


Production history


Designed

1956-1960


Manufacturer

Lockheed Corporation


Variants

A-1, A-2, A-3, Chevaline


Specifications (Polaris A-3 (UGM-27C))


Weight

35,700 lb (16,200 kg)


Height

32 ft 4 in (9.86 m)


Diameter 4 ft 6 in (1,370 mm)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Warhead 3 x W58 thermonuclear


Blast yield 3 x 200 kT
Engine First stage, Aerojet General rocket
Second stage, Hercules rocket
Propellant Solid fuel
Operational
range
Speed
8,000 mph (13,000 km/h)
Guidance
system
Inertial guidance
Steering
system
Thrust vectoring
Accuracy
CEP 3,000 feet (910 m)
Launch
platform
Ballistic missile

the details of 1 polaris missle


and 1 10kT nuke spreads radioactive material into the winds and travels for years

and yes i do know that flatmap distances versus globe distances are dramaticaly different

the point was that the more sophisticated weapons get the more damage they do

[darthel0101]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

1 10kT nuke spreads radioactive material into the winds and travels for years

…


the point was that the more sophisticated weapons get the more damage they do

I call this "scare-mongering"; others might call it "intimidation"; others might use the term "bullying". How about some quotes on AMOUNT of danger posed by, the AMOUNT of material produced, patterns of flow to indicate where it would descend, and justification for the link to nuclear winter. You made a big statement with no justification.

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

the details of 1 polaris missle

If you are looking at one missile, you should have said one missile. IIRC, the Polaris was phased out and replaced by the Poseidon which was itself replaced by the Trident.

The two-stage Poseidon had about the same range as its predecessor (2,800 miles [4,500 km]), but it could carry up to 14 independently targetable nuclear warheads and deliver them with twice the accuracy. The multiple warheads effectively quadrupled the arsenal of each submarine, while the greater accuracy allowed each warhead to be reduced to a blast effect, or yield, of 50 kilotons (one-quarter that of each Polaris warhead).

The first version, the Trident I, or C-4, was 34 feet (10.4 m) long and 6 feet (1.8 metres) in diameter. It could deliver eight independently targetable 100-kiloton nuclear warheads to a range of 4,000 nautical miles (7,400 km). The Trident II, or D-5, is about 46 feet (14 metres) long and carries multiple independently targeted warheads. It has a maximum range of about 6,500 nautical miles (12,000 km).
…
The British Trident IIs are reported to carry an average of three 100-kiloton warheads each, while the U.S. missiles are variously reported as carrying four, six, eight, or even more 475-kiloton warheads. The numbers of warheads are subject to budget constraints and (in the case of the United States) arms-control treaties with Russia.

And if you want to see comoparisons of those yields, try Wiki here.
BTW - none of these facts support your statement that one bomb would initiate Nuclear Winter. If your statement was that one COUNTRY could cause that winter to appear, then you are still off base due to the number of decommissions and dismantling since the breakup of the USSR.
You would have been better served to have railed against the effect of EMP bombs and their effect on society. 1 EMP detonated at 298mi over Omaha with the ability to emit "more gamma radiation than a 25-megaton nuclear weapon" [considerably less powerful effective blast itself] would be able to destroy not only the power grid of the United States and much of Canada but also any other network connected by copper land-lines (phone, internet) and systems connected to those lines. IIRC, the Bikini Atoll test knocked out power in Hawaii due to the EMP produced.
If you are afraid of contamination, then I would be more concerned about Fukushima and Chernobyl style accidents then any winter caused by nuclear exchange.

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

and yes i do know that flatmap distances versus globe distances are dramaticaly different

You also make the following statement

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

do you belive the japanese had no methods of reaching the mainland

a Japanese Zero fighter plane from
World War II that went on to be of inestimable value to the United States.
Aviation buffs and historians know it as Kogas Zero, for the name of its
pilot, or as the Akutan or Aleutian Zero, for the crash site. The photo was
taken in mid-July 1942 by a Navy photographers mate named Arthur W

Bauman on Akutan Island in Alaskas remote Aleutian chain.

Hawaii was at the limit of their logistical support but Akutan was well short of that distance while Seattle is near half again that distance and San Diego 800mi further away. Logistical support must not have been your strong point when you were in service.
Remember that it was logistical support which caused Rommel to be kicked out of North Africa and it was the impact by the US submarine forces on logistical support provided by the IJN which limited the amount that the Japanese could do.


I am done teaching history to a fool.

[shyguyy2]

The fact that all of the nukes we buit in the 80's have never been tested with anything but science and math we don't know what the fallout would be. But I don't think just one would cause nuclear winter but I do think the chain reaction that one starts would cause it. Here is a intersting video of nuclear blasts sence the invention of the nuclear bomb in 1945.
http://youtu.be/LLCF7vPanrY

[richief]

What I always question is the fact that after Pearl Harbour you detained Japanese immigrants and their children, why did the Germans and Italians not get treated the same?

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by richief

What I always question is the fact that after Pearl Harbour you detained Japanese immigrants and their children, why did the Germans and Italians not get treated the same?

I think we had German camps. But it might have something to do with the fact Germany and Italy never directly attacked us. We were just going to let Euroupe fight it out until the Japanese attacked us.

[darthel0101]

Originally Posted by richief

What I always question is the fact that after Pearl Harbour you detained Japanese immigrants and their children, why did the Germans and Italians not get treated the same?

German Internment Camps
Wiki on Italian Internment
aren't search engines wonderful

[richief]

Thanks, but you fuckers just don't advertise them so I was going by urban myth, my fault though I should have taken 5 minutes to do a little research.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by darthel0101

German Internment Camps
Wiki on Italian Internment
aren't search engines wonderful

I've never heard about this before and my g'ma was from Germany and came thru Ellis Island. I'll have to ask my mom about this b/c they lived in New Jersey.

A former boss I had used to be a guard at a camp somewhere in the Pacific Northwest during WW11 and he told me about German prisoners.

[shyguyy2]

Not all Germans were put in camps. My grandpa was half German and he served against the Japanese he was there when they raised the flag Mt. Suribachi. My great grandpa was full German and he was alive at that time and he wasen't put in a camp either.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

Not all Germans were put in camps. My grandpa was half German and he served against the Japanese he was there when they raised the flag Mt. Suribachi. My great grandpa was full German and he was alive at that time and he wasen't put in a camp either.

My g'ma became an American citizen, but I never heard her or my mom ever mention the camps before.

[shootersa]

And look how far we've come.
We didn't inter Koreans during Korea
We didn't inter Vietnamese during Vietnam
We didn't inter Muslims after 9/11

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

Not all Germans were put in camps. My grandpa was half German and he served against the Japanese he was there when they raised the flag Mt. Suribachi. My great grandpa was full German and he was alive at that time and he wasen't put in a camp either.

I made a mistake my grandpa and great grandpa were both full German. My dad was half German. I'm 1/4 German and 3/4 Norwegian.

[PatronofPorn]

Originally Posted by Lioness

My g'ma became an American citizen, but I never heard her or my mom ever mention the camps before.

That's because your grandmother never supported Hitler. The Germans and Italians were put placed in camps during the war those who were (or deemed to be) followers of Hitler and Mussolini. If a German publicly demonstrated for the Nazi cause, they'd have a good chance of ending up in one.

[Druidoak]

Originally Posted by richief

What I always question is the fact that after Pearl Harbour you detained Japanese immigrants and their children, why did the Germans and Italians not get treated the same?

Got me, except they looked different, stupid reason but hard to come up with a better one. Hard to spot spys that look like the rest of America. So they snagged the ones that looked different. Like I said before stupid reason.

[wantsomefun]

Originally Posted by Druidoak

Got me, except they looked different, stupid reason but hard to come up with a better one. Hard to spot spys that look like the rest of America. So they snagged the ones that looked different. Like I said before stupid reason.

Nope, perfectly valid reason. We were far more of a racially divided nation than we are now. The term "racial slur" hadn't been invented -- it was pretty much okay to refer to different ethnicities and religious groups with what are now considered vulgar, pejorative terms. Asians look different than WASP Americans. In a country at war with an Asian nation that had attacked us -- there was hatred and fear. Rounding up the ones with the funny eyes was good stewardship of America and it's "rightful" citizens.

Italians and Germans were, I'm sure, noticed, but then quickly ignored if they didn't wear swastikas or talk about what a great leader Mussolini was.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

I made a mistake my grandpa and great grandpa were both full German. My dad was half German. I'm 1/4 German and 3/4 Norwegian.

My maternal g'ma was German, my maternal g'pa was Dutch and my paternal grandparents were Irish.

Originally Posted by PatronofPorn

That's because your grandmother never supported Hitler. The Germans and Italians were put placed in camps during the war those who were (or deemed to be) followers of Hitler and Mussolini. If a German publicly demonstrated for the Nazi cause, they'd have a good chance of ending up in one.

Ohh thanks for that explanation!! No, she didn't support Hitler, but she had two sisters in Germany during the war and I have absolutely no family history as to how they fared during the war. The Dutch relatives didn't fare so well.

[Lioness]

Oh my goodness! I just read an article in our local paper and a woman is selling a WWll artifact on ebay. Her father's machinery business made the prototype of the shell casing of the atomic bomb. Here is an excerpt from today's paper and I deleted the names:

"Because of World War II, *** Machine would be called upon again to do a job for the federal government. But this work would be much more important and contain an unparalleled degree of secrecy.

During the Second World War, the United States government started a research program known as the Manhattan Project which would result in the creation of the first atomic bomb. When the government and the military started working on the development of atomic weapons, her father was contacted by the officials from the new nuclear facility at Oak Ridge,Tenn.The federal government investigated his background. Both he and his company were cleared to do a special project for the war effort.

Her father and his employees at *** Machine Co. were cleared to make the metal shell casings that would be used in the development of the first atomic bomb. But they did not know what they were making at the time.

She said her father told her mother only that he was making something and he had no idea what it was. But the officials from Oak Ridge were there by his side through every step of the process, she added.

It was not until after the atomic bombs were dropped on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945 that her father and his company realized what that work was really about."

[Druidoak]

Originally Posted by wantsomefun

Nope, perfectly valid reason. We were far more of a racially divided nation than we are now. The term "racial slur" hadn't been invented -- it was pretty much okay to refer to different ethnicities and religious groups with what are now considered vulgar, pejorative terms. Asians look different than WASP Americans. In a country at war with an Asian nation that had attacked us -- there was hatred and fear. Rounding up the ones with the funny eyes was good stewardship of America and it's "rightful" citizens.

Italians and Germans were, I'm sure, noticed, but then quickly ignored if they didn't wear swastikas or talk about what a great leader Mussolini was.

Bullshit, there was no good reason to do it. Where there spys yep, even American ones on payroll. Did the camps prevent information from getting out, nope, they were a knee jerk reaction. The only thing that might have been good, was it probibly kept Japanese Americans from getting harmed by other Americans because they looked different.