The Big Bang

[deviousdave]

An excellent insight to the world of cosmology is a book by Theoretical Physicist Lawrence Krauss called "A Universe from Nothing." I highly recommend.

He has done a number of lectures that tie in well with it. Such as this one

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

The big bang is actually just a theory. Yes it is taught in schools, but is nothing more than the best guess that scientists have come up with. No real scientist will tell you it is actual fact. Honestly, if someone laughs at creationism, but believes in the big bang they're an idiot. Think about it. The bog bang theory implies that everything around us, in the whole universe, came from nothing, from an energy buildup.

The big bang is actually just a theory.

The big bang isn't just a theory, it's a scientific theory which is the highest merit of proof in the field of all sciences. Just look at the theory of gravity, atomic theory, theory of general relativity, germ theory ect. The big bang is backed with large bidies of evidence such as cosmic microwave background radiation, universal expansion, bib bang nucleosynthesis. We can measure back to just miliseconds before the 'Big Bang' expanded and we get to a point called the singularity where everything becomes infinitely dense and time stops, this can also be seen at the centre of a black hole so they could possibly go hand in hand.(The big bang isn't just science its also math)

"No real scientist will tell you it is actual fact"

That is once again untrue, there are fields dedicated to studying the origins of the universe, just recently the LHC has been the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world.

"if someone laughs at creationism, but believes in the big bang they're an idiot"

Not only does creationism have no evidence to support it, it also has years worth of science to contradict it, so know they would not be an idiot...they would be rational. Idiots would believe that a man in the sky did it.


"The big bang theory implies that everything around us, in the whole universe, came from nothing, from an energy buildup."

This is also untrue, The big bang theory doesn't imply the universe came from nothing, the big bang theory focuses on the universal expansion after the universe came into existance, the big bang theory does not claim that the universe came from nothing...No one knows exactly where but the multiverse is becoming a solid hypothesis.

Creation on the other hand falls into circular reasoning, arguements from ignorance and falls into an infinite regression. Idiots believe in creation and i'm here to demonstrate it.

[allyouwanttoknow]

there was nothing then.....bang

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

No there wouldn't. The iron's in the core; an impact wouldn't affect it.

the fact that the core is so small is actually proof that the moon did not form on its own. normally iron cores are more like 50% of the mass of the planet.

But don't tell him that. he doesn't believe in facts.

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

The big bang is actually just a theory.

The big bang isn't just a theory, it's a scientific theory which is the highest merit of proof in the field of all sciences. Just look at the theory of gravity, atomic theory, theory of general relativity, germ theory ect. The big bang is backed with large bidies of evidence such as cosmic microwave background radiation, universal expansion, bib bang nucleosynthesis. We can measure back to just miliseconds before the 'Big Bang' expanded and we get to a point called the singularity where everything becomes infinitely dense and time stops, this can also be seen at the centre of a black hole so they could possibly go hand in hand.(The big bang isn't just science its also math)

"No real scientist will tell you it is actual fact"

That is once again untrue, there are fields dedicated to studying the origins of the universe, just recently the LHC has been the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world.

"if someone laughs at creationism, but believes in the big bang they're an idiot"

Not only does creationism have no evidence to support it, it also has years worth of science to contradict it, so know they would not be an idiot...they would be rational. Idiots would believe that a man in the sky did it.


"The big bang theory implies that everything around us, in the whole universe, came from nothing, from an energy buildup."

This is also untrue, The big bang theory doesn't imply the universe came from nothing, the big bang theory focuses on the universal expansion after the universe came into existance, the big bang theory does not claim that the universe came from nothing...No one knows exactly where but the multiverse is becoming a solid hypothesis.

Creation on the other hand falls into circular reasoning, arguements from ignorance and falls into an infinite regression. Idiots believe in creation and i'm here to demonstrate it.

It amazes me how creationists believe it's perfectly ok for god, a complex, fully functioning, thinking being can come from nothing but a single point of hot dense energy could not.


why are we still arguing IF the big bang happened?

get over it. it happened. It can be proved. what we need to find out is how. not if.

the universe is expanding. rewind time and all matter gets closer and closer together until it's a single point. a singularity.

if you are still arguing this you need to go fuck yourself.

moving on.

[SecretSexyBlogger]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

"No real scientist will tell you it is actual fact"

That is once again untrue, there are fields dedicated to studying the origins of the universe, just recently the LHC has been the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world.

That's kind of what my point was: we call things "theories" in science when there is a lot of proof. If you read what I wrote properly...

And it is not the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world. Talk about a major overstatement.

[ClitSoother]

C'maahn, this is how it all started

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoqSa...eature=related

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by SecretSexyBlogger

And it is not the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world. Talk about a major overstatement.

The past few weeks all eyes have been looking to switzerland since they think they found the Higgs boson(god particle). If true it would be the biggest breakthrough since Einstein's theory of relativity.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by Incubus

It amazes me how creationists believe it's perfectly ok for god, a complex, fully functioning, thinking being can come from nothing but a single point of hot dense energy could not.


why are we still arguing IF the big bang happened?

get over it. it happened. It can be proved. what we need to find out is how. not if.

the universe is expanding. rewind time and all matter gets closer and closer together until it's a single point. a singularity.

if you are still arguing this you need to go fuck yourself.

moving on.

I don't understand the hostility in your reply. My initial post was a reply to an ignorant or misinformed user who branded people who think the big bang happened "Idiots".

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

The past few weeks all eyes have been looking to switzerland since they think they found the Higgs boson(god particle). If true it would be the biggest breakthrough since Einstein's theory of relativity.

...

Quantum mechanics is the most important breakthrough in all of physics ever.
In terms of discoveries, finding the microwave background radiation is certainly more important than creating a Boson In Switzerland. Finding the Higgs was a case of finding something most physicists knew was there for 50 years. The reality of what finding the Higgs means, is it gives validation not only to the standard model, but it also gives validation to the scientific method, and how great it is that we can correctly predict something like this. But in terms of raw new findings, the Higgs is half a century old. Now physicists have got that monkey off their back, they can let rip with the LHC, push it to its limits and see what they can find, and hopefully unlock some more secrets about the universe.

[Capnip-Everdeen]

There are too many pseudo-intellectuals in here.

[Jerry626]

Incubus, you're a fucking idiot! The moon never came from earth, that's a scientifict fact given claimed by our own scientists. Of course the core is iron dipshit. The lack of iron in the rocks of the moon supports the claim that the moon is not from earths body, since ourpercentage of iron in our crust is high. The Bbt is just a theory, more of a guess. Not fact fact. Hell, I can use math to equate that the world is flat, even though its round. Inc, I think its time for you to grow the fuck up boy!

[clarise]

Originally Posted by Capnip-Everdeen

There are too many pseudo-intellectuals in here.

You're nice and everything, Catniss, but the Bible is bullshit, from one end to the other.

Read the thing and find a single good word about kindness to animals. Find something nice about kittens or scottish terriers. You can't.

God is a vicious, sadistic motherfucking asshole.

Just saying.

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

I don't understand the hostility in your reply. My initial post was a reply to an ignorant or misinformed user who branded people who think the big bang happened "Idiots".

wasn't aimed at you bro. I was just saying that why are people even doubting whether or not the BB happened. It's occurrence is not in question anymore.

Originally Posted by Jerry626

I can use math to equate that the world is flat,

go ahead. I'll wait.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by SecretSexyBlogger

.... If you read what I wrote properly...

It appears no one around here ever understands you. No one in this place can read properly. That must really suck, huh?

Originally Posted by SecretSexyBlogger

And it [the Higgs] is not the main focus in the scientific community throughout the whole world. Talk about a major overstatement.

It is the focus in the parts of the world that are moving forward.

Doubtless there are scientists daubed in mud and wearing grass skirts, dancing around fires, who could give a damn about the Higgs Boson, with more important things to do, such as the exorcism of evil spirits.

Sheesh.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by Incubus

wasn't aimed at you bro. I was just saying that why are people even doubting whether or not the BB happened. It's occurrence is not in question anymore.

My apologies man, I know where you are coming from lol, i think some people just need to get out from underneath their rock and read a book other than the bible.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by clarise

You're nice and everything, Catniss, but the Bible is bullshit, from one end to the other.

Read the thing and find a single good word about kindness to animals. Find something nice about kittens or scottish terriers. You can't.

God is a vicious, sadistic motherfucking asshole.

Just saying.

Lol hear hear! Its the bible leads alot people to atheism, The book is so absurd that anyone who can think rationally can come to a sound conclusion that it's a fairytail for adults.

[anon_de_plume]

Originally Posted by Capnip-Everdeen

Did not happen. It is a lie told to children in school.

And I'm sure you have a well reasoned rebuttal to prove it...

Oh, and yes it did happen... CBS has a TV show to prove it, too...

Another brilliant thread...

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

. The Bbt is just a theory, more of a guess. Not fact fact.

I'm pretty sure i have already explained to you that a scientific theory and a theory in laymans terms are completely different. In science a theory becomes a theory after the hypothesis undergoes many tests to see if it is observable, if it has predictive capabilites, to see if its falsifiable and much more. Look at gravity for an example "That is only a theory" If you don't believe in science then feel free to jump of a building and see who wins.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

Lol hear hear! Its the bible leads alot people to atheism, The book is so absurd that anyone who can think rationally can come to a sound conclusion that it's a fairytail for adults.

The bible and a few other things lead me to be a atheism. I've read several versions of the bible and they are all the most useless dribble I've ever read. The only use for them is to use the so called word of "god" against theists themselves.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

The bible and a few other things lead me to be a atheism. I've read several versions of the bible and they are all the most useless dribble I've ever read. The only use for them is to use the so called word of "god" against theists themselves.

I know lol, in a way it's pretty sad that so many people have been indoctrinated into believing in such bullshit. I was rather lucky when growing up, i live in a country where the majority of people are cardboard christians by name and don't give a shit about religion. I hear its really bad in america to be atheist though, there was a poll kicking around the internet that showed atheists where less trusted than rapists. Now thats fucked up.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Administrat0r

I know lol, in a way it's pretty sad that so many people have been indoctrinated into believing in such bullshit. I was rather lucky when growing up, i live in a country where the majority of people are cardboard christians by name and don't give a shit about religion. I hear its really bad in america to be atheist though, there was a poll kicking around the internet that showed atheists where less trusted than rapists. Now thats fucked up.

Yeah thats about the way it is here. I live in a very rual area in the USA and the only reason they don't try and chase me out of the county for being atheist is because I'm the highest decorated veteran alive (my dead grandfather being the highest) in the area. They may be backwards shallow minded bible thumpers that would kick their own kids out for being gay but they sure love the men that fight for their freedoms.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

Yeah thats about the way it is here. I live in a very rual area in the USA and the only reason they don't try and chase me out of the county for being atheist is because I'm the highest decorated veteran alive (my dead grandfather being the highest) in the area. They may be backwards shallow minded bible thumpers that would kick their own kids out for being gay but they sure love the men that fight for their freedoms.

Hopefully atheism becomes more accepted in the US soon, i hate to think people are being discriminated against for disbelief. I think it's almost hypocritical how they love people who fight for their freedom but don't accept other peoples freedom from faith.

[tigerbalmxx]

why not agnosticism then?

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by tigerbalmxx

why not agnosticism then?

If it's not the Christians beliefs they don't care. It's getting better as the older generations fade but it's still bad. The worst part is they aren't even real christians they just preech and act all mightier than even their so called god.

[tigerbalmxx]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

If it's not the Christians beliefs they don't care. It's getting better as the older generations fade but it's still bad. The worst part is they aren't even real christians they just preech and act all mightier than even their so called god.

right so you're saying they wouldn't care about shaman in the rain forest worshiping a tree god?

i like agnosticism because it's the most logical, you're not going out of your way to tell someone else their imaginary friend doesn't exist and you don't have to say you believe in anything.

i just think atheism is too harsh, and i'm not that interested in telling other people what they believe in is moronic, even though it usually is. it's just too aggro

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by tigerbalmxx

right so you're saying they wouldn't care about shaman in the rain forest worshiping a tree god?

i like agnosticism because it's the most logical, you're not going out of your way to tell someone else their imaginary friend doesn't exist and you don't have to say you believe in anything.

i just think atheism is too harsh, and i'm not that interested in telling other people what they believe in is moronic, even though it usually is. it's just too aggro

I phrased that wrong. Unless your belief is their christian belief they don't like you or accept you. I like the fact they think atheism in too harsh I love using facts and science to shoot down the beliefs of theists especialy when they say the founding fathers were all christians when Thomas Jefferson,Thomas Paine, and John Adams were all closer to modern atheists than christians.

[tommyturtle]

Atheism has followers as rabid in their beliefs as radical, right wing christians. Agnostics simply don't care.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by tommyturtle

Atheism has followers as rabid in their beliefs as radical, right wing christians. Agnostics simply don't care.

Athiest don't have a belief thats why they are atheist. Like alot of atheists I have a unnatural hatred of theism though just because of the shit they pull. I want US curencey to go back to pre 1957 before all that god bullshit was on it. I want all mention of god removed from the national anthem, I want all religious symbles off public land!

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by tigerbalmxx

why not agnosticism then?

Are you agnostic about Santa Claus delivering presents on Christmas Eve via a magic Reindeer powered sleigh? Are you agnostic about Leprechauns camping out at the end of rainbows with a pot of gold? Are you agnostic about tiny fairies flying around your garden? Are you agnostic about Zeus sitting at the top of Mt Olympus raining down lightning on the people of Ancient Greece. Are you agnostic about a taking snake? Are you agnostic about a virgin birth?

The big bang has nothing to do with whether you are an atheist or not. Or whether or not you believe it happened. It did happen, and we have a mountain of evidence to prove that it did.

[Jerry626]

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable. As for shyguy, I don't have s problem with any religion just pink as soldier boys they're all pussies. Adm, I was addressing inc, not you. You can dit there and claim the bbt, happened but you have no proof, no scientist does. Can I prove god exists, to am extent yes. Cam some science be proven, to an extent, just not the bbt.

[Administrat0r]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable. As for shyguy, I don't have s problem with any religion just pink as soldier boys they're all pussies. Adm, I was addressing inc, not you. You can dit there and claim the bbt, happened but you have no proof, no scientist does. Can I prove god exists, to am extent yes. Cam some science be proven, to an extent, just not the bbt.

I have already provided proof for the big bang theory, the big bang theory has also undergone and passed every test thrown at it. The second it can be proven false it will no longer be a widely accepted as a theory in science. (It hasn't so it remains)

You says you can prove god exists to an extent...? I would genuinely love to hear what you have to say. I'm all ears...maybe we can end up having a good discussion out of this.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable. As for shyguy, I don't have s problem with any religion just pink as soldier boys they're all pussies. Adm, I was addressing inc, not you. You can dit there and claim the bbt, happened but you have no proof, no scientist does. Can I prove god exists, to am extent yes. Cam some science be proven, to an extent, just not the bbt.

I'm not a soldier thats the fucking army I'm a US MARINE you shit stain one of the finest killing machines to ever walk the face of this planet. Not just a regular one either I was special operations. Learn to fucking spell before acting tough because I garentee you'd be shitting your pants saying that shit in front of me. Now have a nice day

[deviousdave]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable. As for shyguy, I don't have s problem with any religion just pink as soldier boys they're all pussies. Adm, I was addressing inc, not you. You can dit there and claim the bbt, happened but you have no proof, no scientist does. Can I prove god exists, to am extent yes. Cam some science be proven, to an extent, just not the bbt.

When a scientist refers to a theory, they do not mean theory in the same sense that a non-scientist does.

A scientific theory is the highest order of understanding anyone has about anything. (Except in the case of the poorly labelled "String Theory")

You don't even need read any academic papers to see the evidence for the Big Bang theory, a simple google search would suffice.

http://bit.ly/N6coW9

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable.

To a non-scientist, in a non-scientific discussion, that is correct. In this discussion here and now, "theory" means a hypothesis so solidly backed by evidence that it is no longer considered "just speculation" but must be considered to be true.

Much as you claim to love science, it's a shame that you know nothing whatsoever about the details of it.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

I'm not a soldier thats the fucking army I'm a US MARINE you shit stain one of the finest killing machines to ever walk the face of this planet. Not just a regular one either I was special operations. Learn to fucking spell before acting tough because I garentee you'd be shitting your pants saying that shit in front of me. Now have a nice day

Making yourself out to be such a violent thug that you react to insults by beating someone half to death, doesn't really make the US Marine Corps look very good. Is that really the sort of psychopath that they accept into their ranks? Or - worse yet - do they actually TURN people into that sort of psychopath?

[origen01]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

I'm not a soldier thats the fucking army

oh shit, Jerry fucked up now...

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

Making yourself out to be such a violent thug that you react to insults by beating someone half to death, doesn't really make the US Marine Corps look very good. Is that really the sort of psychopath that they accept into their ranks? Or - worse yet - do they actually TURN people into that sort of psychopath?

I never threatened to beat anyone. You used psychopath wrong. I have feeling and can feel so I am not a psychopath. Besides I passed many mental health evealuations in order to do the job I did in the Marines.

[shyguyy2]

Originally Posted by origen01

oh shit, Jerry fucked up now...

No he just ticked me off a little bit. It's all good now.

[clarise]

Is this crap still going on?

You blowhards can't prove God, so now you have to console yourselves with browbeating a decorated veteran.

Sheesh.

Look. Big Bang/Inflation/Higgs Depression/Loop Quantum Gravity has not been falsified.

Creationism has.

Creationism is bullshit, and so is the dumb-ass book it's found in. Creationism is falsified every morning. How? Because you can see the sun.

Sheesh.

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

A theory means theoretical. I love science as much as a lot of ppl, but theoretical only means plausable. As for shyguy, I don't have s problem with any religion just pink as soldier boys they're all pussies. Adm, I was addressing inc, not you. You can dit there and claim the bbt, happened but you have no proof, no scientist does. Can I prove god exists, to am extent yes. Cam some science be proven, to an extent, just not the bbt.

Oh for the love of....dude. YES. YES SCIENTISTS CAN PROVE THAT THE FUCKING BIG BANG HAPPENED. It's not a question of IF it happened. Theoretical physicists are trying to figure out how. not if. Basic knowledge of physics is all you need to prove that it did happen.

If you are going to lambast a subject at least have a working knowledge of its fundamental properties you stubborn stubborn little man.

[Sage6666]

If there is anyone with any genuine interest in the subject then read:

http://www.universetoday.com/11430/t...of-everything/

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Sage6666

If there is anyone with any genuine interest in the subject then read:

http://www.universetoday.com/11430/t...of-everything/

So how can we predict when our number will be up?
There’s no way to know, but there’s a calculation that can help. It’s called the Doomsday Argument, developed in 1983 by astrophysicist Brandon Carter. According to Carter, if you assume that half of the humans who will ever live have already been born, you get approximately 60 billion people. If you assume that another 60 billion are yet to be born, our high population levels only give us another 9,000 years or so. Or more precisely, there’s a 95% chance that humanity will have ended by the year 11,000.

so don't go buying ripe bananas people.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by clarise

Look. Big Bang/Inflation/Higgs Depression/Loop Quantum Gravity has not been falsified.

Creationism has.

Creationism is bullshit...

It is bullshit. It hasn't been falsified because there is nothing to falsify. It contains a self-contradiction and doesn't even qualify as a conjecture, much less as an attempt to explain anything.

[clarise]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

It is bullshit. It hasn't been falsified because there is nothing to falsify. It contains a self-contradiction and doesn't even qualify as a conjecture, much less as an attempt to explain anything.

?

Creationism?

Yes, it is bullshit, but it does not help to yell about it, young man.


It is a theory in the minds of many. It is simple enough to falsify, but one must go through the motions of doing so. Not that it convinces them.

As I understand it, the Roman Catholic Church allowed the Big Bang Theory to stand (and did not hold Lemaitre accused of heresy) on the claim that it validated the Biblical story of Creation by corroborating the Bible's claim that the universe had a beginning.

The big problem with the Biblical account is not so much its claim that the universe had a beginning, as the rest of the Old Testament, which chronicles the genealogy from Adam to Christ and puts the age of the earth, since the Creation of the universe, at less than 10,000 years old. (Roughly 9,000, as memory serves, though accounts do tend to vary.)

This is clearly bunk, and is easily falsified in countless ways, not least of which being the fact that we can see the sun. This would be impossible if the universe were only 10,000 years old. To see the sun with the naked eye, the solar system would have to be at 100,000 years old. (And according to the Bible, the universe and the solar system are one and the same.)

Of course, there are other concrete ways to falsify creation. The existence of heavy elements up to iron in the sun, for instance.

And then, Cepheid variables are a problem. Cepheid Variables are standard astronomical candles that allow us to get a rough approximation of the distances to the nearest galaxies. Andromeda, for instance, is roughly 2.54 million light years away, and was already old at the time the ancients could see it as a tiny blur with the naked eye and worked it into astrological charts. They believed the earth to be flat and approximately 10,000 years old, covered by a solid shell called the firmament, yet they were drawing diagrams containing a feature of the cosmos that proved the world to be at least three million years old and far bigger than God could possibly have imagined. (Or else we would have read about a much bigger universe in the Bible.)

Oh, well.

I still think Capnip is just joshing everyone for laughs.

[Jerry626]

Originally Posted by Incubus

Oh for the love of....dude. YES. YES SCIENTISTS CAN PROVE THAT THE FUCKING BIG BANG HAPPENED. It's not a question of IF it happened. Theoretical physicists are trying to figure out how. not if. Basic knowledge of physics is all you need to prove that it did happen.

If you are going to lambast a subject at least have a working knowledge of its fundamental properties you stubborn stubborn little man.

Ok, you want to get serious on this subject? I have plenty of time right now to show how false you BBT is. Let's see if you can answer this question. Can you?

If black holes represent the ultimate density of matter in the universe and they, like the one at the center of our Milky-Way, may be light-years in diameter, then, how is it possible that the whole universe could be shrunk to the size of a proton? So black holes are not the ultimate density?

[clarise]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

Ok, you want to get serious on this subject? I have plenty of time right now to show how false you BBT is. Let's see if you can answer this question. Can you?

If black holes represent the ultimate density of matter in the universe and they, like the one at the center of our Milky-Way, may be light-years in diameter, then, how is it possible that the whole universe could be shrunk to the size of a proton? So black holes are not the ultimate density?

Easy peasy.

The diameter of a black hole's event horizon is determined by its mass, and its entropy is determined by the event horizon's surface area.

The universe prior to the big bang was much, much smaller than a proton. Trillions of times smaller, in fact (roughly the Planck Length, i.e., the diameter of a superstring). It was this small, because its mass and entropy were very small.

The mass of the universe increased as it expanded. Its entropy increased, too.

Initially the universe had the topology of a quintic surface of eleven dimensions or more, yet its entropy was still quite small, because the Planck Length is trillions of times smaller than an electron. Its entropy took on a more spherical topology through several stages of symmetry-breaking, but a hypersphere, in order to accommodate time.

Time was created with the Big Bang, too. Time is one of the broken symmetries.

That is why it is nonsensical to ask what came before the universe. There was no before, because there was no time. That is also why a Creator-God is nonsensical. God could not have existed before the universe, in order to create it, because there could not have been a before.

At any rate, the expansion of time, mass, and entropy with the expansion of the universe is why it has not been called the Big Bang Theory for at least forty years.

It is called Inflation Theory.

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by Jerry626

Ok, you want to get serious on this subject? I have plenty of time right now to show how false you BBT is. Let's see if you can answer this question. Can you?

If black holes represent the ultimate density of matter in the universe and they, like the one at the center of our Milky-Way, may be light-years in diameter, then, how is it possible that the whole universe could be shrunk to the size of a proton? So black holes are not the ultimate density?

seriously. this is the best you could come up with?

how could something that evolved after the BB be more dense than the BB itself?

Black Holes occupy a finite space. The singularity that ignited into the BB was all of space and time and matter and energy.

Black Holes are the core remnants of super massive stars. stars evolved after the BB.

any of this getting through to you or are there too many notions of talking snakes and winged angels blocking the path?

[Jerry626]

Originally Posted by shyguyy2

I'm not a soldier thats the fucking army I'm a US MARINE you shit stain one of the finest killing machines to ever walk the face of this planet. Not just a regular one either I was special operations. Learn to fucking spell before acting tough because I garentee you'd be shitting your pants saying that shit in front of me. Now have a nice day

A marine is no different than the army, they all pieces of shit! I would have no problem saying that to your face. i do feel sorry for you, and all military since most of their wives and gf's sleep around on them when they're overseas. How many times were you cheated on? i could go for a lower hit, but I'm too nice for that since you're sufferring from it already.
I already stated that I'm up for a friendly debate on this topic, not in those words. You want to continue this is a better manner, then quit bashing my religion and beliefs. My first post was worded wrong. If someone wants to believe in the bbt, fine tell me something though if the bbt supposedly created all matter and the planets, why are they round? i guarantee a stick of dynomite insode a bowling ball would not create round pieces. Motion, gravity, and time caused the pieces to become round you say? I've never seen a round comet or asteroid. They have been around just as long as the planets and satelites. Why are some of them not round either? The gases and pices coalesced in gravity wells that swirled and formed the palnets? so you're telling me that coincidentally there were pockets of gravity in certain places that just happened to be perfect? especially Earth, with it's perfect distance from the sun so that life could form. How probable is it that these gravity wells just happened to be spaced so individual planets could form?

[Incubus]

Originally Posted by clarise

That is why it is nonsensical to ask what came before the universe. There was no before, because there was no time. That is also why a Creator-God is nonsensical. God could not have existed before the universe, in order to create it, because there could not have been a before.

If we were in person I'd hug and kiss you right now. no homo.

This bit of logic I just quoted here is so blatantly obvious to me it amazes me that more people haven't figured this out on their own.