Perv.. I'm gonna ask this question at risk of soundin' like a numbnuts.. but.. if we self-police where do we draw the line? I mean.. imagine I've spent hours in the garden.. gettin' it lookin' real nice an' all.. and one of the neighbour's kids kicks a ball into my prize begonias! Do I have the right to kill them for doin' it? yes or no? If no, who says not?

You've gotta have rules.. somewhere to start.. and a governing body to make sure these rules are complied with.. or generally complied with anyhow.. otherwise you get a society where the strong overwhelm the weak.. where people live in fear..

Even in the animal kingdom there's a leader.. look at the ol' daddy lion.. his word is law.. an' although ya get the younger, fitter lions tryin' to take his crown.. if they succeed... they jus' take his place.. same shit different day..

Hey! I think I just made a valid point here.. get me...

NB: I'd just like to point out that no kids were hurt in the postin' of these questions..

 

True they may quickly be outdated but couldn't they also easily provide a truth not readily recognizable to our current perceptions.

 

"I am asking why we are so compelled to follow it when it acts against our personal natures."

There's got to be a balance here somewhere, but we are taught to conform at a very early age. We do it with our kids so they won't be brats. I'm sure we've all experienced unruly children that haven't been taught any manners or social skills. How much fun is that to be around?? Not much!!!

I think kids need to be taught to speak up when something isn't right and not be penalized for it...unfortunately that may end up costing them their jobs, or maybe even their life, when they grow up if they speak out against injustice or unfairness.

 

Our unwillingness now comes from knowing someone else will do it for us.

 

Perv, like it or not, the same people who gangbang and deal drugs, would do even worse things to get things out of innocent people. There are some people who are just bad people, no matter what you make legal, they'll find a way to be criminals. It was like that back in the days of the bible, before there were laws, and in the Old West of the 1800s. We are lucky enough to live in a country where we elect our officials, and we actually influence the laws and our government. If we got rid of authority, those same people drug dealing and gangbanging, would become dictators and rule by fear, because they could.

 

We draw the line with our own reason. In old days when kids tore up a neighbors property it was handled in some fashion wasn't it. If you chose to kill them you would expect some other response to your action. People would be forced to find their own balance.

I don't know why you used the words "otherwise" in your second paragraph, it could have just as easily have said "in our case" or perhaps "in both cases"

Most people would like to think we are better than animals.

You guys keep distracting from the point.

I do not aim to dissolve authority, I aim to ask why do we follow it when it goes agaisnt our principles.

 

I thought I gave you an answer...

 

I can only speak for myself, but sometimes the consequences aren't worth bucking authority.

I can agree with this. But you also have the people who just don't give a damn. I can think of one person in general right now who wouldn't take responsibility for almost any of his actions, just because he doesn't care.

 

I am quoting you guys here because I don't want you to think I am ignoring you. I read the posts and just wish to reiterate that my goal is not do away with authority, it is not to say that it has absolutely no function. Mine is a more complicated question. Why does authority have such an unnatual riegn on us. Why do we deny ourselves to follow its rules?



I need to run some errands I'll be back to have a look later.

 

If we had a universal code, or if everyone had the same morals, then we could self police. But some kid who grows up with a crack addicted mom and has no money, isn't gonna have the same moral strength as someone raised in a middle income, stable household.

I think we should be allowed to smoke weed, john doesn't think it should be legal. How do you solve that dilemma? Some people say an eye for an eye, some people think you should cut someones hand off if they attempt to steal.

We all have a place in this world. Some of will move up, some of us will be loyal soldiers. Some people like the balancing act and they believe they can do it better than others.

 

"Once we are matured (for the sake of L's arguement) why does authority have such an unnatual riegn on us. Why do we deny ourselves to follow its rules?"

That is a good question, Perv! I think it's conditioning. We're so used to it, we don't even question it. That was the main "battle" cry from the 60's..."Question Authority."

 

Perv.. with the greatest of respect to ya.. authority does not go against my principles on the whole.. and when it does.. I flex my rights to speak out and question..

And no, I'm not distractin'... I asked a valid question..

In 'the old days' although kids would get physically punished if they did anythin' wrong.. there was still a line where ya couldn't kill 'em for wreckin' your prize begonias..

Humans will always refer to an authority figure.. be they democratically elected or.. as in the case of the lion.. usurpers to the throne.. there has always got to be someone at the top of the tree..

I think I get alot more outta authority than authority gets outta me.. yeah.. I pay my taxes.. but I get healthcare on the NHS.. yeah I've got one speeding ticket.. had to pay a fine and got points on my licence.. but when I questioned the decision because the road went from a 50mph to a 40mph limit without clear indication to the change.. I got both recinded.. have a clean licence and am nearly a hundred quid better off than I would've been if I just accepted the offence as stated..

The wordin' used in my second paragraph was a personal choice.. obviously you disagree.. but it's valid.. as valid as your wording..

 

Well okay, I agree that we should have more of a say in how our authority figures are chosen, what they can do, etc,a nd anybody abusing power should be taken down. However, I don't think everybody deserves a say in determining what the authority can and can't do, and who is elected to be an authority figure. I think that the right to democracy should be earned, not given. I think that only people who have shown that they have only good intentions, and aren't detrimental to the well being of our society as well as others, should have a say in things like this. I believe the authority figures that come into power should be held by the same standard too though. Corruption goes on daily, and nobody really does anything about it, but it's not only the authority figures taking place in it.

 

I always wanted a T-shirt that said "Because I'm the Mommy, THAT'S WHY!!!"

 

My point was, that yes there's a fine line between governing and dictacting, but there's also a very fine line between rebelling and anarchy, and certain people would love to cross it. take the Socialist Revolution in Russia for example: Great intention, started off to help the people, and then the wrong people got involved, took control cus they could, and it became the Iron Curtain.

 

Perv, is there any chance you are a Psy major as well?

 

Perv, if you ever read a newspaper, watched a TV news show, came in here to one of our more colorful threads, went for a walk where there were protestors, listened to a teenage kid trying to weasle out of raking leaves,...........you'd know that we DO NOT blindly follow the orders of those in authority.

We are wont to always question authority, not follow it. You'd also know why we can't self-police.

 

Well, I didn't say don't use them as a guide. I just recommended being careful to apply their views as relevant in this society.

 

Perv, I think the problem with your question, "Why do we allow authority to rule us in spite of ourselves? Why do we allow it such an unnatural reign?" is that you're wrong about human nature -- it is completely natural for humans to seek out authority.

Human society would not have developed as it has, where authority rules over us as it does, unless we as humans would allow it to be so. Humans seek out a higher authority instinctively. Why else would we have created religion? Why else would we have created kings and dictators and governments at all? If it was, as you assert, the reverse, and human nature at its very core rejects the idea of following a higher authority, then as we crawled out of our primordial ancestral past, we would not have organized around strong central leaders -- instead, if people are, as you assert, naturally inclined to rule themselves rather than be ruled, we would have developed an entirely different society; it would be a society probably completely alien to us.

Humans naturally seek out authority and seek to be led. I think those who don't are the exception.

 

I completely agree with this. I think calling authority into question is the first step to pulling them back down to a more reasonable level.