The self proclaimed Master of Facts' views on race and genetics has been the focus of discussion across multiple threads across the forum recently.

So by request I'm creating a thread exclusively devoted to discussing his views.

For those that don't know Distant Lover aka the master of facts believes that the back race is genetically bred to be less intelligent, violent, and prone to criminal activity.

While whites and Asians are more intelligent, law abiding, and less violent do to their genetic make up as well.

He quotes the Bell Curve Theory primarily for his views on the subject.

Finally thank you Ridgerunner for the title.

 

Really.
You didn't think this through very well did you?

You didn't really expect DL to run in here so you can bitch slap him did you?

 

With his ego he won't back away from a challenge.

For instance DL answer the questions.

Are blacks born knowing that it is easier to rob someone then get a job?

Are Arabs born knowing that the USA is the great Satan and Americans must be killed?

Is population control the right method to reduce black crime rates?

 

News flash it is brought up in many threads cause the rest of you guys continue to bring it up. I am not taking sides but if you guys didn't have to get into it in every thread with him this wouldn't happen. Just saying.....

 

Based on available data from 1980 to 2008—

Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide
victims and off enders. The victimization rate for blacks (27.8
per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per
100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost
8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000).

- U.S. Department of Justice
Offi ce of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

 

And let me guess their low intelligence and high testosterone is the reason or is it they are being influenced by something else.

 

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: www.collegeboard.com

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1
Source: www.act.org

Quote from attached SAT/ACT article:

"Readiness for college science and math coursework was particularly low among
African American students. Only 5 percent of African American test-takers scored
at or above the college-readiness benchmark for college biology, and just 10
percent attained the readiness benchmark for college algebra. Ferguson said
Black students were less likely than others to take tough, college-prep courses
and "often don't receive the information and guidance they need to properly plan
for college."
http://www.blackexcel.org/06-sat-act-scores-by-race-ethnicity.htm

 

My main contention with DL are steps in his argument that he makes without evidence.

He is correct that on average black people commit considerably more of certain types of crime than white people. This is a fact, which he often points out.

He is correct that on average white people score better on IQ tests than black people. This is also a fact.

From this there are two conclusions that a reasonable person could make. One, black people on average are more violent (at least in modern times). Two, white people on average are more intelligent, assuming of course that we consider IQ to be an accurate measure of intelligence, which is highly debatable.


However, DL paints a picture that black people commit more violent crimes because they are less intelligent. But he doesn't back this up with any facts. He also makes assertions that intelligence is purely genetic (genes do play a significant role, but there is also a large environmental factor which is being ignored), and as such are black people genetically predetermined to be more violent people, at least on average. But he largely ignores many environmental factors which affect behaviour and differentiates black people from a lot of society. Such as culture, methods of discipline, single parenthood, poverty, access to education, racial discrimination and an unfair justice system.

Black people that grow up in loving households with BOTH parents, where violence is not used as a method of discipline, very rarely grow up to be criminals, this falls to almost zero when they are free from poverty and have access to good education. Also if you listen to DL's perspective, you would think that the majority of black people are involved in crime, but this is not the case, criminals are in the minority.

 

‘No Child’ Law Is Not Closing a Racial Gap

The New York Times

By SAM DILLON
Published: April 28, 2009

The achievement gap between white and minority students has not narrowed in recent years, despite the focus of the No Child Left Behind law on improving the scores of blacks and Hispanics, according to results of a federal test considered to be the nation’s best measure of long-term trends in math and reading proficiency...

There’s not much indication that N.C.L.B. is causing the kind of change we were all hoping for,” said G. Gage Kingsbury, a testing expert who is a director at the Northwest Evaluation Association in Portland.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/education/29scores.html?_r=0

----------

If you look at the following website, you will see that No Child Left Behind has had no effect on SAT scores. Asians are increasingly the gap in mathematics scores with whites, while reducing the gap in reading scores. Keep in mind that for many of these Asians English is a second language. Gaps in both mathematics and reading scores between whites and blacks have increased.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171

The chart includes scores of Orientals with other Asians and Pacific Islanders. If Orientals were listed by themselves, their scores would show even higher averages.

 

Well I'll be darned. He showed up.

Ok, so we kind of covered this before, but the Justice Department, FBI and Census all use different methods to determine race when they examine crime statistics.
The Census bureau takes whatever someone says they are
The FBI uses whatever the reporting police agency says the victim or offender is.
The Justice Department doesn't say how it gathers race data.

So on the one hand you got someone saying "I'm White, or I'm Jewish or I'm Oriental" The census bureau says "okey doke"

That person gets arrested, and by some mysterious method the arresting officer determines race; he says "dudes white" when the dude told the census bureau he was Jewish. Or, the dude told the census bureau he's "Mixed" but he gets killed, and the cops say "black".

See the problem?

And those SAT scores by race?

Guess what? Yep, test takers self identify themselves. But here's the catch; word is, you identify yourself as "black" and you get Affirmative Action involved. Take a mixed oriental/black. Check black, and it helps with your admission chances. At least, that's the word on the blogs dealing with taking SAT tests.

See the problem?

In any case, given the premise that genes dictate intelligence, and intelligence is the primary factor in determining the ability to thrive and avoid violence, we still once and for all gotta address that pesky issue of Societies ignoring their genetic programming and their social conventions.

I know it's pesky, but until we address it the whole Bell Curve Thingy is suspect.

 

I've stated something similar on several occasions about the differences between crime rates of urban and rural areas.

In rural areas you see different values taught to children compared to the values taught in urban areas.

Among these are the importance of family, education, and hard work.


While you see this in urban areas also they must compete against negative influences like gangs and crime.

 

Not really. There is a strong correlation between low intelligence and high rates of violent crime. There is also a strong correlation between high testosterone and high rates of violent crime. There are additional genetic factors which have not been discovered yet.

--------

Gilmore was born in McCamey, Texas, on December 4, 1940, the second of four sons to Frank and Bessie Gilmore. Frank Gilmore Sr. (1890–1962), an alcoholic con man, had numerous wives and families, none of whom he supported...

In 1952, the Gilmore family settled in Portland, Oregon. As an adolescent, Gary began engaging in petty crime. Although Gilmore had an IQ test score of 133, had high scores on both aptitude and achievement tests, and showed artistic talent, he dropped out of high school in the ninth grade. He ran away from home with a friend to Texas, returning to Portland after several months. At the age of 14, he started a small car theft ring with friends, which resulted in his first arrest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gilmore

--------

One could use the example of Gary Gilmore, who was eventually executed for murder, as an example of the bad results of a bad environment. Nevertheless, his brothers did not become criminals. The fact that Gary Gilmore had an IQ of 133, and that he had been in trouble with the law since he was 14 indicates the existence of genetic influences in addition to low intelligence that incline people to crime.

I do not know what Al Capone's IQ was. I am confident that he could have made a good living as a law abiding businessman. When alcohol was legalized, he could have gone into the liquor business legally.

 

I have never claimed that most blacks become criminals. I have claimed and documented that they have a murder rate that is over seven times the white rate.

 

It would look like you just added another example of genetics.
Not every person belonging to a race of people fit the profile of the average.
Just compare the number of black homes with both loving parents. Compare the number of homes with both loving parents where violence is not used as a method of discipline. If you do the research you will see we are talking about a small % of black families. No where near the average.
Now add in the above and add in free from poverty and have access to good education. The % drops even more.

 

That would explain why there is a large difference in the level of violent crime between genders, but there is no difference between ethnic groups with regard to testosterone levels.


.Ellis L, Nyborg H. Racial/ethnic variations in male testosterone levels: a probable contributor to group differences in health. Steroids. 1992;57(2):72-5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1621259

 

POVERTY AND CRIME

The notion that economic deprivation necessarily leads to lawlessness is widely believed but is not supported by empirical evidence. Human history is replete with examples of impoverished people who have endured extreme poverty without descending into criminal activity. During the 1960s, for instance, the residents of San Francisco's Chinatown were among America's poorest people—with the most unemployment, the worst housing conditions, the least education, and the highest rate of tuberculosis in their city. Yet despite such hardships, only five people of Chinese ancestry went to jail in the entire state of California in 1965.[1]

Similarly, Jewish immigrants to America during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries also repudiated criminality despite having to face extreme economic deprivation. Historian Max Dimont describes them:

"The majority of these immigrants had arrived penniless, all their worldly belongings wrapped in a bundle.... Most of [them] arrived in New York. Some made their way into other cities,... but the majority remained in New York, settling in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, [which was] a neighborhood of the poor. Sociologists, with their impressive charts showing the number of toilets (or lack of the), the number of people per room, the low per capita income, paint a dismal picture of the Lower East Side Jewish slum. But their charts do not capture its uniqueness. Though it bred tuberculosis and rheumatism, it did not breed crime and venereal disease. It did not spawn illiteracy, illegitimate children, or deserted wives. Library cards were in constant use."[2]
​

The late political scientist James Q. Wilson debunked the theory that crime results from poverty, or that redistributive government programs can reduce crime rates by alleviating poverty, by pointing out that “crime rose the fastest in this country at a time when the number of persons living in poverty or squalor was declining.” He added: “I have yet to see a ‘root cause’ or to encounter a government program that has successfully attacked it.”
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1636

---------

The author goes on to blame single parent households for high rates of black crime, but black illegitimacy rates have increased dramatically since the civil rights legislation was signed in the United States during the 1960's.

Everywhere in the world different races have different crime rates. The racial differences persist. There is no where in the world a country where blacks have a lower crime rate than Chinese or Chinese immigrants. The black rate is always much higher, just as the black IQ average is much lower.

I have two explanations for persistent racial differences in average intelligence and crime. First, it takes more intelligence to survive in a cold climate than a warm climate. Second, civilization exerts population pressure in favor of higher intelligence, and against crime. For thousands of years civilized countries have removed those with genetic inclinations toward crime from the gene pool through capital punishment and long prison sentences. That alone is sufficient to explain why poor Chinese and Jewish immigrants have lower crime rates than blacks and Hispanics. It also explains why the children of poor Chinese and Jewish immigrants tend to perform well in school and rise economically, while blacks and Hispanics are likely to lag behind.

 

That's not genetics. That is environmental. These are cultural issues that can be changed.

 

So, let me get this straight. If skin color determines tendency toward criminal behavior, this guy is more dangerous now than he was when he walked into the salon?

 

I'm not trying to argue that poverty leads to crime. However, poverty does lead to a poorer education, and this leads to less opportunity in life, which someone earlier stated is a reason people may resort to crime.

 

Racial/ethnic variations in male testosterone levels: a probable contributor to group

deviousdave,

This is what I got from the web address you posted:

Racial and ethnic variations in serum testosterone levels were investigated among a large sample of male Vietnam era veterans. Based on geometric means, significant average differences were found between 3,654 non-Hispanic white and 525 black individuals. The geometric mean for testosterone levels among 200 Hispanic individuals was similar to that of non-Hispanic white individuals. Regarding two other racial/ethnic groups (Asian/Pacific Islanders and Native Americans), no significant differences were found, due perhaps to small sample sizes. Results were interpreted as having considerable potential for explaining some of the race differences in the incidences of cardiovascular diseases, hypertension, and prostate cancer.
​http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1621259