The truth about health care...

ace's n 8's · Apr 10, 2012

stumbler said: ↑

Now this is total bullshit Ace. You've gone from discussion alleged facts to simply projecting something you think could happen the future that has no bearing what so ever on the Affordable Care Act.
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You leftists can believe what you want, you cna believe that Obamacare is the bestest legislation that was ever concocted through bullshit if you leftists want to,,you leftists can also believe that this Obamcare bullshit will be the bestest thing that has ever happened for the American people,,you leftists can do that if you want, but attempting to convince people that know the history of the U.S. federal government and all the corruption and fraud, along with more government control over the people that happens with entitlements,, then I can say that Obamacare is total bullshit.

ace's n 8's · Apr 10, 2012

grimmtea said: ↑

Do you think you are the first person to be made a fool in a debate and respond with vague attempts at salvaging your pride? If you cannot answer a point, pretend it is not worth answering. How terribly predictable. This was discovered first, I believe, by a neanderthal toddler who had gotten quite over his head in a discussion of cave drawings. I am glad to see tradition carries on.

You may as well have said that I responded with no "kuspaw," no "depth," or no "insert abstract word best used to critique modern art." At least be creative in your evasiveness. Please.

What a bore.
You ought to have left it at vague dodging and moved on. Now you're rambling on about public opinion on Obamacare which has nothing to do with anything else we were discussing. First abstractions, now non-sequitars? Soon you shall be lecturing me on the communist nature of the EPA.

By the by, public opinion has nothing to do with the affordability or efficiency of Obamacare and therefore has no place in the discussion. And, as a slight aside, if I remember correctly, republicans dismissed public opinion when it supported Obamacare, on the basis that they were being "deceived." Now that the numbers favor you they suddenly mean something? Your dancing is not even interesting. You'll need a more gullible opponent.

Ah, and your statement has no relation to the phrase of a "man of one book." Don't be so desperate to turn the tables that you end up merely knocking them over. I suggest you at least understand something before you copy it.
Defend this reform tooth and nail? Well now you've simply slipped off into imaginary atmosphere like some stupid balloon. The reform does not go nearly far enough, the reform ought to have introduced a single payer system as it has been proven to work better. I am no ardent supporter of the thing, I merely see it as a start.

I jumped into this debate challenging you to explain why exactly no reform was better than Obamacare. I challenged you to defend the private system against all evidence, as well as to explain why you had any faith in republicans following through on their "proposed" reforms considering history. You responded with some fetching phrases about substance and an overwhelming number of successive commas.

You ought to evade right into vapor next time. Or at least find someone who can slouch to your level of "debate."
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This is the exact type of response that I predicted a leftist would come back with,,thanks for not letting me down..........You have lost the debate,(about 2 posts back).

stumbler · Apr 12, 2012

ace's n 8's said: ↑

You leftists can believe what you want, you cna believe that Obamacare is the bestest legislation that was ever concocted through bullshit if you leftists want to,,you leftists can also believe that this Obamcare bullshit will be the bestest thing that has ever happened for the American people,,you leftists can do that if you want, but attempting to convince people that know the history of the U.S. federal government and all the corruption and fraud, along with more government control over the people that happens with entitlements,, then I can say that Obamacare is total bullshit.
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You can be the dumbest and hameheaded fool I've ever seen Ace. What you call Obama care was the agreement not to even propose a single payer system or even a public health care insurance option.

And you still after all this time have not shown me one conservative/Republican/Tea Bagger that says our current health care system does not need to be drastically changed.

You are crowding yourselves into a corner where a single payer system is the only option. left you fool because not even you you fucking coward are willing to start allowing people to starve and die in the streets of the United States of America

stumbler · Apr 12, 2012

6 Years Ago: Heritage Foundation Praised Romneycare For Building ‘Patient-Centered’ Health Care Market

Six years ago today, Mitt Romney signed his health care reform bill into law, proclaiming during an elaborately staged signing ceremony at Boston’s Faneuil Hall, “Of course the bill isn’t 100 percent of what anyone in this room wanted.” “But the differences between us are relatively small.”

Romney thanked the Bush administration for approving federal authorizations to fund the law and praised the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) for his “essential” work in shaping and advancing the bill through the state legislature. “Special thanks as well to the Heritage Foundation,” Romney continued. “Two of its leading scholars are the ones who helped design and craft what we now call the Connector, which is the centerpiece of the insurance reform portion.” Once Heritage’s Dr. Robert Emmet Moffit took the stage, he praised the law for establishing a new “patient centered” and “consumer-based” market where everyone can find affordable coverage:

MOFFIT (HERITAGE FOUNDATION): We’ve been honored by your request…to participate in giving our best advise and our technical assistance in designing a new and different kind of health insurance market. A market that is patient-centered and consumer-based, which will ease access to affordable coverage for thousands of Bay State citizens. This is new. It’s a new market, where individuals and families will be able to own and control their health insurance and take it with them to from job to job… Nothing like it has ever been attempted anywhere else in the United States. So Massachusetts has raised the bar for every state in the union. And that’s the applause you’ve given to your public officials here today is going to echo far beyond the hallow halls of this historic place.

Watch it:

Since its enactment, health insurance coverage among nonelderly adults in Massachusetts increased to near universal levels, nonelderly adults were more likely to have a usual place to go when they were sick, the state has reported drops in the shares of adults reporting a hospital stay and using the emergency department and seen gains in the affordability of care. More businesses are now offering health insurance and almosts all children can now see a doctor when they need to.

In fact, a new report released yesterday found that “for the second year in a row, the Massachusetts Health Connector’s Commonwealth Care program will provide private health insurance to eligible residents at a lower cost than the previous year.” The state will “save the state approximately $91 million with no benefit reductions or member co-pay increases” as a result of “contract renegotiations with providers and referral management,” said Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority Executive Director Glen Shor. “Several of the insurance carriers achieved significant success in persuading provider organizations to serve Commonwealth Care members at a lower cost.”

According to a WBUR poll from February, 62 percent of Massachusetts residents support Romney’s law, while just 33 percent oppose it.
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http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/12/463097/romneycare-6/

BigTrobbing · Apr 12, 2012

stumbler said: ↑

Who do you think you're bullshitting Big Sobbing you didn't even bother to read it. First because it was like Holder was talking to first year law students not sitting judges and secondly and more importantly his conclusion.
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I watched the asshole on the TV read his little letter and it was not a bitch slap. Perhaps when you listen to a fellow comrade you hear something other then what others hear. But that would be nothing new with your narrow mind.

I did find something interesting about ole moochelle when she worked in a hospital in IL she came up with a dumping scheme to dump the low income people to another hospital.

LINK::: https://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-224357

I uses the commie news network because it is a fellow comrade and you may actually have to believe it.

I will wait to hear the bullshit parrot teabaggers or what ever else you spew out of your fucken ass.

I really think you should shove a fucken bat up your ass until you rip your ass apart.

stumbler · Apr 12, 2012

BigTrobbing said: ↑

I watched the asshole on the TV read his little letter and it was not a bitch slap. Perhaps when you listen to a fellow comrade you hear something other then what others hear. But that would be nothing new with your narrow mind.

I did find something interesting about ole moochelle when she worked in a hospital in IL she came up with a dumping scheme to dump the low income people to another hospital.

LINK::: https://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-224357

I uses the commie news network because it is a fellow comrade and you may actually have to believe it.

I will wait to hear the bullshit parrot teabaggers or what ever else you spew out of your fucken ass.

I really think you should shove a fucken bat up your ass until you rip your ass apart.

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I obviously don't care what an embittered hysterical brainwashed parrot like yourself thinks, or lack of same but admit its a pretty interesting article although I don't think its actually true or going anywhere.

But keep trying, BigSobbing.

stumbler · Apr 12, 2012

BigTrobbing said: ↑

I watched the asshole on the TV read his little letter and it was not a bitch slap. Perhaps when you listen to a fellow comrade you hear something other then what others hear. But that would be nothing new with your narrow mind.

I did find something interesting about ole moochelle when she worked in a hospital in IL she came up with a dumping scheme to dump the low income people to another hospital.

LINK::: https://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-224357

I uses the commie news network because it is a fellow comrade and you may actually have to believe it.

I will wait to hear the bullshit parrot teabaggers or what ever else you spew out of your fucken ass.

I really think you should shove a fucken bat up your ass until you rip your ass apart.

Click to expand...

Hey BigSobbing according to this the Urban Health Initiative is a very successful program.

U. of C.'s Urban Health Initiative growing

Program is linking thousands to primary care but officials say more work is to be done

An initiative designed to transform health care on Chicago's South Side that was once led by first lady Michelle Obama has linked 5,600 people to a "medical home" since 2005, University of Chicago executives said Thursday.

Five years after the Urban Health Initiative was launched as a way to educate patients on the best use of the emergency room, the program has grown into a network of 25 community-based clinics and other medical care providers on a budget of more than $6 million a year. It is now poised to escalate research initiatives and teaching opportunities for physicians in hopes of becoming a national model for medical care in urban areas.

While medical center executives point to the successes of the Urban Health Initiative, they also acknowledge that these patients are not consistently maintaining a relationship with a doctor after they are guided by U. of C. to its vast network of primary care providers.

Those involved in the initiative say the number of appointments made at clinics through the U. of C. referral system jumped nearly 40 percent, to 3,649, in the 12 months ended Jan. 31, compared with the same period in 2006.

The numbers tell a story of how the effort is working to provide patients a medical home, an idea that is designed to get patients higher-quality care, including specialized services upfront in a doctor's office or outpatient clinic, where costs are much lower than at a hospital.
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http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...health-care-care-providers-chronic-conditions

stumbler · Apr 17, 2012

This ought to be good for Mitt Romney.:excited:

For Second Year In A Row, MA Health Insurance Premiums Go Down

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/second-year-row-ma-health-insurance-p

Earthboundhero · Apr 17, 2012

Getting back to this topic's original purpose. That interview was excellent. Sort of makes me feel like there's no hope for correcting our system though. The people with the deeper pockets will keep the status quo. (Here's hoping for some of the Supreme Court Conservatives to step down. (I wouldn't wish death on anyone))

stumbler · Apr 17, 2012

Earthboundhero said: ↑

Getting back to this topic's original purpose. That interview was excellent. Sort of makes me feel like there's no hope for correcting our system though. The people with the deeper pockets will keep the status quo. (Here's hoping for some of the Supreme Court Conservatives to step down. (I wouldn't wish death on anyone))
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If you're referring to the interview of Wendel Potter I agree even though I haven't heard much about him lately.

Now, on that conservative court. What do you suppose the reaction will be if one or more of those conservatives find the Affordable Care Act and individual mandate constitutional? Some of the conservatives on the court have some real problems with past decisions and past opinions that would indicate they almost have to.

That is not a prediction of course because we are talking about activist justices but I've read a few opinion pieces that contend that's possible.

Earthboundhero · Apr 17, 2012

Well there's always that chance...I'm hoping for that very thing. But I'm not overly optimistic on this particular case. Out of the conservative justices...I see only perhaps two who can see the value of this bill passing. Out of those two I don't think either will have the stones to go against his own party ideology to pass this. The individual mandate is just too closely associated with the idea of a tax for them. Even though it isn't a tax...I don't know if a strong enough case was made to illustrate that fact.

stumbler · Apr 23, 2012

Obamacare will save Medicare $200 billion by 2016

Here's an inconvenient fact for Mitt Romney and the Republicans: Obamacare will save for $200 billion for the Medicare by 2016 and $208 billion for Medicare patients by 2020.

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services actuary reports:

"We have achieved significant tangible savings that have been passed on to beneficiaries," said Jonathan Blum, director of the Center for Medicare. "There's a tremendous opportunity for even greater savings." [...]

The new numbers are based on savings so far: 32.5 million people used preventive services last year with no costs to themselves, senior citizens saved $3.2 billion for prescription drugs that fall in the "doughnut hole" in 2010 and 2011, and the government recovered $4.1 billion in 2011 in anti-fraud efforts.

CMS also projected savings based on portions of the health care law that will be enacted soon, such as penalties for hospitals for readmitting patients for the same health episode, and paying providers based on quality standards.

Here's a breakdown of savings from the actuary report.

The actual experience Medicare beneficiaries, and particularly seniors, have had with the Affordable Care Act has lessened some of the fear, and according to the March Kaiser Family Foundation tracking poll, for the first time the law is seen more favorably by seniors than not.

Of course, this could all be moot if the Supreme Court goes as radical as the March hearings seemed to indicate, and decides to overturn the whole law.

But this report makes the Romney/Ryan plan to end Medicare as we know it a much harder sell on the merits of making changes to the program, especially to seniors whom they say will be better off with vouchers. Good luck selling that one now, Mitt.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...-will-save-Medicare-200-billion-by-nbsp-2016-

richief · Apr 23, 2012

What I can't understand is that you Americans get sick, then pay a guy to find you a doctor, then he pays the doctor. What actually is the guy in the middle doing, after he takes your money and looks for the cheapest care provider so that he can keep for himself more of your money. Are all of these insurance companies completely US owned or does your money go abroad.

Why not pay the government a set price from your wages something like national insurance then all you have to do is turn up at the hospital and get treated, the man in the middle suddenly is not there and you save money and get treatment free at the point of service.

I suspect that the insurance companies are paying the lobbyists a hell of a lot of money at the moment, and that is your money they are spending just so they can continue to take money out of your pocket

RandyKnight · Apr 23, 2012

richief said: ↑

What I can't understand is that you Americans get sick, then pay a guy to find you a doctor, then he pays the doctor. What actually is the guy in the middle doing, after he takes your money and looks for the cheapest care provider so that he can keep for himself more of your money. Are all of these insurance companies completely US owned or does your money go abroad.

Why not pay the government a set price from your wages something like national insurance then all you have to do is turn up at the hospital and get treated, the man in the middle suddenly is not there and you save money and get treatment free at the point of service.

I suspect that the insurance companies are paying the lobbyists a hell of a lot of money at the moment, and that is your money they are spending just so they can continue to take money out of your pocket
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By Golly !!...I beleive you understand it now.....

as to insurance companies like AIG just do some stupid foreign investments go broke then the taxpayers bail them out and we pay even more....

stumbler · Jun 8, 2012

NEW DATA: 6.6 Million Young Adults Insured Thanks To Obamacare

Even though much of the Affordable Care Act does not go into effect into 2014, conservatives insist the bill is making things worse for Americans. But a new study shows that one implemented provision of the ACA is already providing millions of young Americans with health insurance.

According to a study by the Commonwealth Fund, 6.6 million young adults have signed up for coverage through their parents’ health insurance plans. Under the ACA provision, young people can now stay on their parents’ plans until the age of 26. About half of the 19-to-25 year-olds interviewed for the study reported opting in to their parents’ plans between November 2010 and November 2011.
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http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...ion-young-adults-insured-thanks-to-obamacare/

stumbler · Jun 28, 2012

The US Supreme Court has upheld the Affordable Care Act including the individual mandate.

stumbler · Jun 28, 2012

Supreme Court Health Care Decision: Individual Mandate Survives

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/supreme-court-health-care-decision_n_1585131.html

RandyKnight · Jun 28, 2012

Romney calls Supreme Court ruling incorrect,
says health care remains bad law, bad policy

Romney says that, if elected in November, he will work to repeal and replace the law.
But he hasn’t said precisely how.

stumbler · Jun 28, 2012

RandyKnight said: ↑

Romney calls Supreme Court ruling incorrect,
says health care remains bad law, bad policy

Romney says that, if elected in November, he will work to repeal and replace the law.

But he hasn’t said precisely how.
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He does not dare because most of the parts of the law are already popular and now it will become better known instead of just the conservative/Republican/Tea Party lies about the Affordable Care Act.

Empress Lainie · Jun 28, 2012

richief said: ↑

What I can't understand is that you Americans get sick, then pay a guy to find you a doctor, then he pays the doctor. What actually is the guy in the middle doing, after he takes your money and looks for the cheapest care provider so that he can keep for himself more of your money. Are all of these insurance companies completely US owned or does your money go abroad.

Why not pay the government a set price from your wages something like national insurance then all you have to do is turn up at the hospital and get treated, the man in the middle suddenly is not there and you save money and get treatment free at the point of service.

I suspect that the insurance companies are paying the lobbyists a hell of a lot of money at the moment, and that is your money they are spending just so they can continue to take money out of your pocket
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You are correct. But this was forced on us I don't think anyone in their right mind would want these layers of profit & overhead. Hospitals should all be non-profit or gov owned with no middle leeches. There is a book called THE RAPE OF THE APE which details how in the 1960's the federal gov was instrumental in creating this absurd scenario where you pay a premium and then the insurance company decides whether or not they will pay your medical bills supposedly covered. The gate keepers are not even doctors.
I am completely fed up with and sick of the way our socalled govt treats us. If Canada wasn't so cold I damned sure would move there.

MEDICAL CARE IN THE US IS ABOUT MONEY NOT ABOUT CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The truth about health care...

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