1. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    We can go round and round about this for another month, and by the way, your denial of established science is as stubborn as you claim Shooter is. In any case, read the following;
    http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/

    This is a long article, but let me cut to the chase;

    Not only is our concept of race arbitrary, but it is based on a relatively insignificant difference between people. Skin pigment, eye shape, and hair type are all determined by genes. Indeed, as the human genome is mapped, geneticists might be able to reconstruct what mummies or other ancient people looked like. But the physical ''stereotypes'' of race, writes Cavalli-Sforza, ''reflect superficial differences.'' For example, light skin color is needed in northern climates for the sun's ultra- violet light to penetrate into the body and transform vitamin D into a usable form. This mutation may well have arisen at different times, in different ancestral groups, on different points along the DNA. That's true for cystic fibrosis, which occurs almost exclusively in people of European descent but is caused by several different mutations.​

    In other words, ''white people'' do not share a common genetic heritage; instead, they come from different lineages that migrated from Africa and Asia. Such mixing is true for every race. ''All living humans go back to one common ancestor in Africa,'' explains Paabo. ''But if you look at any history subsequent to that,'' then every group is a blend of shallower pedigrees. So, he says, ''I might be closer in my DNA to an African than to another European in the street.'' Genetics, he concludes, ''should be the last nail in the coffin for racism.''​

    That's the utopian view. But there are still scientists who claim that inferior genes plague certain races. J. Phillipe Rushton, a professor of psychology at Canada's University of Western Ontario, publishes books and articles claiming that ''Negroids'' have, on average, smaller brains, lower intelligence, more ''aggressiveness,'' and less ''sexual restraint'' than ''Caucasoids'' or ''Mongoloids.''​

    Rushton's views are on the extreme fringe, but even in mainstream genetics, largely discredited concepts of race persist. Scientific articles constantly speak of ''admixture'' between races, which implies a pure and static standard for each race. ''Where did these standards come from?'' asks Jackson. ''We've taken a 19th-century view of racial variation and plugged in 20th-century technology.'' Indeed, the whole notion of racial standards—of a pure Caucasian or a pure Negro—is exactly what modern genetics undermines. But, says Jackson, ''the philosophy hasn't caught up with the technology.''​
     
  2. clarise

    clarise Precious princess

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    I have been consistent from the first moment I wandered into this morass. You're the one who's all over the map. On past posts, you've referred to human species in the plural.

    Now, finally, I've gotten you to commit that all humans are of the same species.

    That might not be proof of evolution, but it is progress.

    So let's just leave it there. Because I still don't know what your point is, and I am way past caring.

    sheesh
     
    1. msman
      I have tried several time telling you my point but you want to see something different or are incapable of understanding.
      Might be a bit of both.
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:41 PM
  3. clarise

    clarise Precious princess

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    +1

    Excellent.

    Anyone with pets should know that race amounts to virtually nothing. My 8 pound Maltese is essentially identical, genetically, to the giant poodles two doors down and the mastiff down the street. The differences are there, but infinitesimal. For instance, the vast difference in sizes amounts to almost nothing. Just tiny variations in the lengths of homeobox and telomere genes that determine who long various body parts grow. Yet a dog is a dog is a dog. Because there is no difference whatsoever in the sequences that define dogness.

    Racism is, quite literally, an irrational obsession over that which is the most superficial about us.
     
    1. msman
      Your maltese does not have the intelligence of some other breeds. Every dog owner should know that.
      Your maltese does not have the aggression of some breeds, does not have the sense of smell of some breeds, is not as fast or as strong as some breeds.

      Different breeds of doge were developed for different reasons. Your dog was developed to be a lap dog, completely useless. Other breeds have jobs they were bred to do.
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:45 PM
  4. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    We agreed that we could go on about this forever .

    There is no established science and there never has been and there never will be .

    The ptolomeic system existed for 2500 years before it was proven to be incorrect .
    People believe that heavier objects fall faster than later ones for about that long as well .
    Doctors used to prescribe cigarettes because they thought it was good for people's health .

    So everything that I have read in scientific journals seems to suggest that there is no perfect bridge between race and intelligence through DNA .

    Does not mean it doesn't exist it just means that it has not been established but often they go a step further and say if it has not been established it doesn't exist .

    This is probably the best summation that I have found on the subject and it comes from the American psychological Association which I don't have a whole lot of appreciation for but you might

    "In response to the controversy surrounding The Bell Curve, the American Psychological Association's Board of Scientific Affairs established a special task force to publish an investigative report focusing solely on the research presented in the book, not necessarily the policy recommendations that were made.[12] In their final report, titled Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns,[13] some of the task force's findings supported or were consistent with statements from The Bell Curve. They agreed that:

    • Intelligence test scores have a correlation of 0.5 with GPA and 0.55 with the number of years in school.[14]
    • IQ scores have predictive validity for adult occupational status, even when variables such as education and family background have been statistically controlled.
    • There is little evidence to show that childhood diet influences intelligence except in cases of severe malnutrition.
    Regarding statements about other explanations for racial differences, the APA task force stated:

    The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. At present, no one knows what causes this differential."

    And in this gap of knowledge statistics and philosophy maybe actually ahead of the science

    Many of the ancient Greek's realized that the Atom may be infinitely divisibleand it pretty much took until the 1930s to show that there were subatomic particles below protons and neutrons .
     
  5. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    And by the way obsession works both ways one can be obsessed with differences in the race or one can be obsessed with the fact that there are no differences in race.
    As for dogs clearly there are differences within breeds Afghan hound among the least intelligent and border collies among the most .

    This is probably the third time I've mentioned this but why is it so much of a stretch to think that if there are differences between breeds of animals within the same species well why can't we extrapolate that to human beings?

    Last that I heard we are animals .
     
    1. msman
      But you just said in a post above there was no difference in your maltese and any other breed of dogs.
      What happened?
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:46 PM
  6. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    And by the way while human beings may have come from a common ancestor and that is still somewhat questionable I hope the people understand that genetic mutations do occur.

    From that so-called first ancestor to humans of today I am certain that many mutations had time to take place .
    I hope that our American educational system has not failed us in teaching us this basic fact.
     
    1. msman
      I agree completely. Very many mutations.
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:47 PM
  7. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    Purpose of this thread was to point out that because people have racist thinking what are you care ?

    There are people who believe that God created the universe in six days and even created plants before there was light to drive their photosynthetic processes.

    Elijah Mohammed believe that whites were created from a scientific cross between pigs and humans .

    I believe he was also the one who said that black man should practice raping black women so that they can rape white women more effectively as compensation for racial prejudice .

    All three of these are extremely racist points of view but what do I care ? And why have they not been called out as outrageous racism.

    I think that race has become an issue to forestall further inquiry into political policy that people from the left think is settled science.

    I think that is academically lazy
     
  8. msman

    msman Porn Star

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    There are many different beliefs. Some based on facts and some based on thoughts. Some probably based on fairy tales.
    People who have one belief do not think others are free to have a different belief. It is their way or the highway.
    As science advances many of those beliefs have been proven wrong but that does not change the minds of the people.
    They just pick and choose where they want to get their information and completely dismiss everything else.
     
  9. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    That's what I was saying and in the context of a lack of absolute proof on a subject all one can really do is turn to statistics and common sense philosophy
     
  10. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    Also I feel the need to say that a schnauzer is a schnauzer and a bull mastiff is a bull mastiff but a schnauzer is not a bull mastiff.

    It's a complicated idea to take In I know but they are different .
     
    1. msman
      Now we are in complete agreement.
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:17 PM
  11. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    I think it was Clarice who said that dogs are pretty much all the same
     
    1. msman
      Sorry about that. I do not even look at who posts something. I just give my opinion of the single post.
      My opinions will not change according to who posts or what they post.
      I do make mistakes sometimes, maybe more than I should.
       
      msman, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:37 PM
  12. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    You could be right. There could be a connection between intelligence and DNA that hasn't been discovered. And yes, one can study the connection between race and IQ without bothering with DNA, but to do that one has to work with the societal definition of race; you know, since biologically, race is a meaningless term. At least at this point.

    Which leads us right back to what Shooter has been saying; define the group(s) you want to study. Then validate your testing method. Then test. Lets see what the result is.

    But you cannot use the "facts" from discredited sources like the Bell Curve Thingy, or crime stats, or IQ test results because none of them have a reliable definition of race, and especially not a definition of race that can be compared between say IQ test results and crime statistics. When people say stuff like "Blacks have crime rates 8 times greater than whites" what they are really saying is; "Niggers is stupid and violent".

    The point is, as it stands today we simply cannot say why some groups perform less well on tests, why some groups are more violent, or why some groups are less successful. We haven't reliably defined the group yet, you see.
     
  13. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    The findings in the bell curve have not been discredited and have even withstood a task force studying from the American psychological Association . I presented that but you apparently did not read it . But nice try .
    I believe that the delineations of race within I Q studies are based on self reporting of race. Until the human genome is better bracketed empirically that and common sense will have to do .
    OK shooter this is becoming ridiculous we can continue to waste each others time or we can recognize that I think your views are visceral and that you cherry pick the scientific studies that you like . You clearly think that my views are simply wrong and that philosophy is a silly discipline And commonsense is for common people and that I cherry pick my statistics .
    Any differences that are ever found that point to differences in race will never be accepted in the mainstream university system because they are too politically charged . Too politically incorrect.
    Are you enjoying this because I certainly am not and I am suggesting that we will never come to an agreement and we are going to be in a permanent impasse likely forever At least until the universe experiences the heat death.
    I think our time would be better spent exchanging recipes for quiche .
     
    1. shootersa
      Not quiche. Shooter hates quiche.

      Shooter will leave with two final comments;
      1) The conclusions the Bell Curve Thingy made were based on faulty data. Shooter is convinced the authors knew that, and in fact wrote the conclusions before they did their "study". Shooter even had to dissect this book for a statistics class he took in college. The assignment was to pick from a list of books and dissect how well (or badly) the author did with statistics. Everyone who picked the Bell Curve Thingy concluded that Herrnstein and Murray at best were stupid, and at worst paid hacks with a predilection for dishonesty.
      2) You are correct that IQ studies are based on self reporting of race. Crime stats are based on the legal system determining race. The two can't be compared, and neither is reliable as the basis for determining if IQ or crime are impacted by race.

      Now, if you want to trade Stew recipes, or lasagna recipes .........................
       
      shootersa, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:55 PM
  14. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    Oh and shooter I would still like to see that police report that we talked about . The one where you single-handedly overpowered four really big guys and you had no back up and they were all so scared of you. If it's true then you must be like a Marvel comic book hero . I like reading about heroes .
     
    1. shootersa
      Happened in 1975. Shooter doubts the report still exists. No matter. It happened, you can believe it or not.
      You can bet your sweet ass those 4 delinquents remember it. And Shooter bets they don't give cops any shit.
      Back in the day, Shooter was the poster boy for heroes .......:alien:
       
      shootersa, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:48 PM
  15. E DOG

    E DOG Porno Junky

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    it's funny,when I was a kid in school i played with black boys and girls, white kids to. we had oriental kids to and we got along back then. it's only when we got older when people started saying dont hang with that guy or girl because there this or that. it's stuped. were the same inside.I've seen black people help white people in a car crash,mexican people save a black baby from drowning in a river.were all good at haart.!!
     
    Rixer likes this.
    1. E DOG
      and where's the racism when i'm making love to a black girl, or a white girl, or whatever girl. I don't care even then i just want good sex fuck the color!!!
       
      E DOG, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:11 PM
  16. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    Well you certainly said enough times that the book is severely flawed and I have given you reasons that others disagree with this.
    Your description of the book is being stupid is interesting because I have never seen the word stupid used in peer-reviewed journals . Perhaps you were up on the latest lingo in the biz.
    And anyone who makes up a story about them single-handedly beating up four huge people has no business casting aspersions about anyone else's dishonesty. You keep asking for proof of the things that I say so shooter prove this . Or are you simply a hypocrite As well as a liar?
     
    1. shootersa
      Shooter isn't going to prove a thing to you. Shooter realized that back about page 2 of this thread.
      Believe what you want.
      Shooter didn't beat up anyone. No need. They got aggressive, thought they were gonna kick Shooters ass, and Shooter put a stop to that kind of thinking by grabbing the one with the loudest mouth and arresting him before he or his friends knew what the fuck happened. Once the loudmouth was handcuffed and In the back of the patrol car, the other three settled down and did what they were told.

      So yeah, Shooter is (ok was) a fucking bad ass.
       
      shootersa, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:55 PM
  17. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    Was Charles Manson good at heart was Idi Amin good at heart was Pol pot good at heart? I appreciate the fact that you probably do have a good heart but I'm afraid evidence from The Stanley Milgram study the most people do not . And once again I've gone far a field from the original point of this post . And that is that if people have racist ideas why do people care it's just their opinion
     
  18. msman

    msman Porn Star

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    One reason people do not even like to have a discussion about race could be that it is so easy to prove there is a difference in races of people.
    But if they ever accept that they will then see the need for changes.
    The people I can't understand are those who will assure people there is absolutely no difference in race but will defend affirmative action.
    Their own actions show them to be wrong.
    If it is true that all races are equal why should one race be allowed to lower the standards for pretty much everything?
    If we have equal IQs all races should have the same requirements for college entrances.
    There should be no need for one race to allowed to compete for jobs with lower standards than other races.
     
  19. NicoleDeLint

    NicoleDeLint Porn Star

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    People will say that you need affirmative action because the big bad white people have held black people down through carefully crafted discrimination . They will say it still exists only now it's subtle . However this does not explain why other people of color who have even experienced things like internment camps during World War II are doing so well . It's nonsense . In my professional life I have never seen even one incident of discrimination in fact quite the opposite
     
  20. msman

    msman Porn Star

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    If a race of people need and want special treatment they should admit they lack something the other races have.
    If they have to have lower scores why not admit they are not capable of learning like other races?
    If they need some advantages so they can compete in the job marker against other they should admit they cannot compete.
    That old excuse the white man is keeping us down will not work.
    If you go to the same school, have the same teachers, even eat the same lunch as other people what is stopping you from performing the same?