And that shooter is what I know .

 

You are not above personal attacks shooter.

You regularly insult people and their intelligence .

Again this is projection on your part .

I wonder if you've ever had an opportunity to speak to a therapist

 

Haven't been here in a while.

What was the verdict on my scuffle with msman? Are blacks a different species after all? Or not?

 

It has always been my understanding that if two individuals can have sex and produce offspring then they are the same species . In fact I thought this was definitional.

I don't think that it matters if the offspring is sterile .

 

Wow Shooter

Your refutations are becoming increasingly sophisticated.

 

The offspring must be reproductively viable - and not just the odd outlier, either (such as the one-in-a-million mule that can procreate); the offspring must be viable generally.

Haldane's Rule.


But this is tangential to the question.

I maintained that all humans on earth, regardless of race, have at least one common ancestor and therefore have at least one common shared origin. And thus are all the same species.

MsMan danced around it and seemed to imply that he believes otherwise, but he never really did have the balls to just spit and out and take a stand. Instead the lily livered coward wanted us to draw his conclusion for him.

(Yes, I'm goading him, all in good sport! )

 

This latest incident in Cleveland won't do much to quell the whole racism argument ...

The only thing blacks hate as much as whites, is themselves ...

 

Yes you are correct that fertile offspring is necessary to be placed in the category of the same species . Did a Little research mostly definitional . I read the science on both sides with a jaundiced eye because Grant money usually involves a lot of politics. Again it's a question of follow the money. I wish this were not the case .

And you're also correct that this is tangential from the original intention of my post.

 

Being only a few miles from the incident I was quite happy to hear that he solved the problem permanently himself.

 

I thought you where in California....

 

How is it possible for a person to think they know anything about where a race of people came from when they do not even know different species can mate and produce young.
Sort of like asking the man who rotates my tires how to do open heart surgery and believing him when he tells me.

 

No I was in Anaheim California for many months but presently I am very near the airport in Cleveland .

Not proud of that but we all have to face up to our bad decisions

 

Cleveland ??? WTF, did you lose a bet LOL ???

 

No just to completely blow your little minds think about this.
In some species if a male of that species mates with a female of another species the off spring will be sterile but if a female of his species mates with a male of the other species the off springs will be fertile.

 

I am afraid that science is not going to be much help here because people are so deeply divided emotionally about what they wish to believe and there is science or so-called science that can support both sides .

I have no idea if there is a single human being that is the progenitor for all that were to come and neither does science . We can't even agree on global warming which is a present scientific inquiry. Because there is money to be made by believing in it and not believing in it. To me philosophy is much more helpful. I come from the discipline of existentialism and pragmatism and both lead me to believe that one has to look at what's truly happening instead of sticking our heads in the clouds and believing in some great categorical imperative . And this is where I stand with people like William James who describes this as being very akin going up in a balloon .

If I were to walk out of my front door and find that my car is missing. I would fIrst eliminate the possibility possibility that it had been towed. And then I would assume that it had been stolen.

I would not immediately go to a believe that it was sucked into a vortex of another dimension .

The comment when you hear hooves I think horses not zebras comes immediately to mind if you were living in the United States .

We have created all of these complications to support a political system that supports all kinds of underlying reasons for differentiation between people.

It's not good philosophy and it's not good science .

If the differences exist what does it matter ?

I'm sorry that people might get their feelings hurt .

I was actually trained as a scientist and I was taught to follow the truth and not start from a premise and work backwards.

I guess that's the difference between true academia and the real world .

 

I was born and raised on a farm. I had to learn a lot about animals and birds. Went to work on a game bird farm before I started the first grade in school. Went to college and majored in agriculture. I have been raising animals and birds for over 60 years. Did a lot of research on crossed species breeding as I was raising birds that could and would breed with other species and hatch fertile birds.
Many of the examples I gave I have raised myself and seen the results in person of species mating other species and raising fertile young.
If you want to get into a good discussion go to a pheasant site and mention mixing two different species together. It will make this site sound like a sunday school social and you could have some every angry people knocking on your door.

Many people think just because they do not know about something it didn't happen. They are afraid to do any research because they do not want to know how wrong they are. Some will even go to some off the wall sites that will agree with them. It doesn't make them right. They are still wrong and more people know it as they still try to argue their lack of knowledge.

 

Yeah well we have disagreed about a lot but I have to be honest and say you're exactly right this town sucks .

Came from LA a couple of months ago and believe it or not that's even worse which shows you how truly hellish Los Angeles is .

 

Well shooter we can certainly agree on basic compartment between people of different races .

But we will continue to disagree about the question of differences between races .

As I said you can cite your scientific sources and I can cite mine but most of the peer-reviewed literature is written for a specific audience and usually things are written with a grant in mind .

I still refer to a line out of one of AYn rands books in which she said " don't let anything come between you and your own judgment" I don't thrive on conflict

And for me my conclusions come out of statistics and out of common sense .

But let's agree upon what we can agree upon because I don't thrive on conflict

 

Also I don't think that you understand what I'm saying .

What I was saying is what difference does it make about what the science says about differences between races because of the politics and the pressure to produce data that is amenable to a particular section of the political spectrum .

However make a very dangerous difference when it comes to one making an assumption about the matter of the differences between races and then setting out to create public policy based upon that assumption .

When I have lost the opportunity for jobs and have seen people of color artificially promoted For purposes of racial politics I take it personally because it is personal .

The idea is that one must promote people who do less well because simply the fact that they do less well is evidence of discrimination .

It's a tautology .

Black may mean more than just a color .

There are certainly a lot of black people who think the fact that they're black makes them superior .

Would you ever be critical of them for thinking that?

 

Couple of thoughts for you to ponder.
First, when Civil rights legislation opened doors for blacks, it closed doors for whites. It wasn't an accident; it was intentional. Make up for slavery and discrimination a bit, you know, level the playing field. The problem is, people didn't blame a faulty government policy or law, they blamed blacks. You can't fault someone for taking advantage of a government policy or law, even if it harms you.

You can't. You have to blame the government.
Every time government identifies a group and then gives them special rights, it doesn't turn out well. Mainly because to give one group special rights requires that another group gets fucked.

And that creates hostility. Unfortunately, not against the fucked up government assholes who created the law, but against the special group.

Shooter hasn't met very many blacks who think they are superior. In fact, he can't think of a single one. He has met blacks who are insecure and try to hide that with bravado or aggression.

Shooter can pretty much always tell when whites who don't get out much find themselves around minorities. They try to speak Spanish to Mexicans, or overtly show that they aren't prejudiced to blacks by being overly friendly or even submissive. It's sad to watch. And either uncomfortable for the minority or amusing, for obvious reasons.

But once the barriers come down, you discover that indeed; they are just people. Not always people you'd invite into your home once you get to know them a bit, or people you'd hang out with, or even want to have a beer with, but just people never the less.

Once you can stop being afraid of the skin color, the dread locks, and the tattoos, and the saggy pants, and the pins in the face, life gets a lot nicer.

Shooter has a confession; he isn't bothered to be the minority in a roomful of people, in fact, he finds it interesting. Kind of like walking a mile in someone else's shoes, if you will.

But, he has a real problem with soccer moms (soccer parents actually) who think their kids shit doesn't stink and they can do no wrong, cause, you know, they are just the cutest things. Fuck that. Sit your brat down on his ass and make him shut the fuck up. And you can quit beaming like you birthed the second coming cause your kid is uglier than a mules butt.