I think if I have freedom of religion I also have freedom from opposing religions.

As for the split personality god, the glaringly obvious fact that it is a consruct that people make up to justify themselves seems like a rational answer.

 

That's interesting...I didn't know that. I knew the part about "under God" being added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's.

I guess these folks just keep chipping away.

 

And I didn't know about the Treaty of Tripoli, either.

 

Not at all. I like being the Devil's advocate or in this case Jesus' Advocate.

Oh Please Z get a hold of yourself here. Freedom from religion was one of the pressing matters to those who drafted the constitution and in this case when we are talking about public schools we are talking about the state. And the separation of Church and state was also another corner stone of the Constitutional concept. Which religion, which God, which concept would you have these kids forced to pray to.

And like I've said many times I don't put much faith in the Bible myself but I think you can safely say that what Jesus was quoted as saying is what he thought. Its the religious fanataics of this nation that has tried to ram God and especially the Christian Religion down out throats. And that has primarily been in the last 100 years.

Here's another little tidbit. The original author was a socialist and eventually left the Baptist church because of its racist views.

This is a little background:

Yeah, Shake slaughtered me with that one too on another thread Kimi.

 

https://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

-S-

 

By keeping religion and State separate it means that if I am sending my son to a public school, funded by tax dollars and attended by everyone, God has no place. Students are free to pray amongst themselves as much as they like. Many a school have morning prayer groups. My old highschool in Cape Girardeau, Missouri had students that met around the flag pole each morning for a prayer group. I'm sure they went somewhere else in bad weather, but there you go. What the separation means is that the school can not hold or endorse prayer and it can not teach the rightness or wrongness of one faith or another.

And there is a division between church and State that was built in to our political system. The first amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

That means that the government, and through the government the public schools since they are run and administered by elected officials, can not be teaching A religion. I can teach about religions but it can not endorse them. Neither can the Federal government. Those faith-based inititives that Bush started are highly illegal. Their tax exempt status is also illegal, especially when they get in the business of endorsing candidates.

Thomas Jefferson backs me up.

https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

-S-

 

Oh, and here is the U.S. Constitution. The word God is not in it anywhere. Not even once.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

-S-

 

I always wondered why in public school I had to pray or give hommage to another persons GOD.

How upset would YOU be if YOUR kids were forced to pray (or pledge) to somebody elses god. I imagine as upset as I was to be slaped in the faceevery morning with the pledge of allegience.

I HATED it!

But, I always repected their right to worship the way they wanted.

Why cant they do the same for me in a country where I'm supose to have
freedom of religion "just like them".

 

Found this on where "In god we trust" came from

It got me to thinking that if the God Mark wasn't there in 1950 when and where did this offending mark come from? In 1782 Jefferson, who coined the phrase 'wall of separation between church and state,' authored the first national motto. From an Deist and separationist like Jefferson this motto was clearly secular. "E Pluribus Unum," (One from Many) was this first motto and still part of the great seal of the United States. This motto appeared on the first coin in 1798 and in 1837 was required by law to appear on all U.S. coins. It still appears on coins today.
This motto stood without challenge for nearly a century. In a letter dated November, 13 1861 from Rev. M. R. Watkinson, a Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, PA, Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase was urged to recognize God on our coins for what strike me (non-lawyer) as unconstitutional reasons. The letter went as follows:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.

One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.
​

This letter set off a series of events that cause a 1864 law to be passed allowing the "In God We Trust" motto to be placed on one, two and three cent coins. At this time the congress was controlled and sympathetic to the historical equivalent of the Religious Right and caved in without thinking about the constitutional aspects. Watkinson and the congress of the time is our worst nightmare. Watkinson in addition religionizing the currency also went so far as to suggest amending the preamble of the constitution. A Petition was drawn up and formally presented to congress to change the preamble to the following:

"We, the people of the United States, humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, His revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government..."
​

Luckily the petition did not pass and we are allowed some degree of religious freedom in this country. On the coin front, however, Watkinson was wildly successful, by 1873 after passing several laws the "In God We Trust" motto was allowed on all coins and in 1908 it became mandatory on all U.S. coins.

 

Google it.

What the hell would you expect in a treaty written to try to get along with a bunch of wacko Muslims?

It does say "In the year of the Lord." I think that the word "Lord" just may be a reference of a religious nature, Sparky.

 

It says in the Constitution::::::AND THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. why is that part continually ignored???????

and that is what the atheist contingent is trying to prevent. I also disagree with mandatory prayers of any kind.

 

Oops.
I turned "smartass" a bit too high on my last post. :mrgreen:
(I blame it on the fact that I have a bad headcold and I'm high as a kite on cough medicine. )
After some sleep and a few hours of labor I'll endeavor to return to this thread and give a less smartassy answer.

 

So if the President turned every news briefing into a prayer session that would be cool because he is just exercising his freedom of religion?

 

People are most certainly allowed the free exercise of their religion as long as they don't do it in places paid for by the government. Just like prayers at high school graduations, or the Ten Commandments attached to public buildings.

What everyone is over looking here is there is nothing at all, no rule or law preventing the kid that supposedly wrote the OP from bowing her head and praying anytime she wants to. She can practice her religion and exercise it anywhere she wants to including school. But that's not what they really want. What they want is public prayer and interjecting a belief in God into the public realm. That is where the Constitutional Rights of atheists and others are being violated and the state is paying for it.

You also completely contradict yourself here in the last line. You contend that atheists are trying to prevent believers from exercising their religion and at the same time claim you oppose mandatory prayers. When prayer and a belief in God are expressed in public it becomes mandatory for atheists to sit there and listen to it.

Also the atheists are not the only issue. Take the example of communities that are like 95% Mormon. Prayer and using the public school for Mormon functions had overwhelming public support. But what about the 5% minority of Catholics in the community. They were being forced to be exposed to the Mormon beliefs when they think the LDS church is a hell bound cult. The only fair way to handle it is to keep the religions in the churches and out of the public realm.

 

i touch me all the time!

 

And that is precisely the point. Evangelical Christians only make this argument because they consider theirs the majority, dominant religion in their particular community. If they were forced to endure a daily Muslim prayer, and required to face Mecca, they'd all be howling with outrage. They're not for freedom of religion, they're for THEIR religion.

 

You've hit it exactly on the head Kimiko and this is actually part of a national agenda that is well orchestrated and has the backing of the President of the United States no less. They are also pushing for "Intelligent Design" to be taught along with Evolution. Those are actually code words the Creationists came up with after the Supreme Court rejected their attempts to have the Creation story of Genius in the Bible taught in Science classes instead of or along side of Evolution. The creationists are also a code word for the Fundamentalist Christians that claim they believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. In other words the Bible is meant to taken literally and the Earth was created in seven, 24 hour days, despite a fossil record that goes back millions of years and the earths geology which goes back billions of years.

 

I was pissed off as a child (And I still am!) that in a Berlin primary school they taught children God didn´t exist! Schools shouldn´t care about people´s beliefs!
Although I believe in God, this pledge is obviously one big piece of shit! America is known as a religiously fanatic country, so what is the complaint about? And God´s word? The Bible can´t be God´s word! It´s a fuckin´ man-made book!
They outlawed guns? What a surprise either!
And everyone can criticise fashion and trends, but that hasn´t got a damn thing to do with religion and politics, so it´s all crap, crap, crap.....
Uhhhh....is it forbidden to pray????????
God is love......If you believe in him or not, love should govern, not hatred....this pledge leads to senseless disussions and hatred!

 

Those creationists!

They are so backwards and embarrassing! The actually believe God created earth in some days, that dinosaurs were made by the devil and that carbon dating doesn´t work?

They don´t understand a single thing about God!
He´s love! People should live in love and harmony! Everywhere!

I´m so happy not to have those creationists in Europe! I liked that German politicians even detested the tries of Scientology to take influence on politics!
Never let creationists have an influence on politics!

 

and they are not doing a very good job at keeping the government and religion seperate, at all

but im agnostic, and I think that its fucking stupid how people can get offended because the word 'god' is mentioned

seriously, look at our beloved president fucking bush. The dude is an Evangelical, and mentions god all the time. the government will all be Evangelical soon