No, but as I've delved in to more secular topics on the founding of the nation, his name pops up so I'll have to add him to my already arm-long list. Leila got me two books on Jefferson, one of which is written by Hitchens, but I've got four books going at the moment and three more to read, I'm having trouble making it through those. I can't buy any more right now, even though I want to.

-S-

 

...or like how stumbler quotes from a "fair and balanced" site like infidels.org? Man! I just love the consistency of your criticism!

 

Or even better yet how you couldn't leave a single line intact before you pretend to address it.

 

Again, this is a good rebuttal ShakeZula and I notice there is no response to it. I think, however, you under estimate the influence religion plays in our modern times, especially under the influence ultra right wing Republicans like Ronald Reagan, George H. Bush and George W. Bush. When policy decisions that affect everyone, such as ineffective sex education programs based on abstinence, or stem cell research held hostage to pander to the religious right we all pay the price.

I think its also worth mentioning how ridiculous we appear to a lot of the western world because of the amount of influence religion has on our government. We can see that sentiment expressed right here on our forum from time to time.

 

My point was not to list all the examples of church and state intermingling. I said up there "This is just one example. I could go on and on." If I did that, I'd never get to bed on time and I already stay up too late as it is.

And no, no adequate reply to Joe's first post about the article supposedly discounting the Tripoli treaty and none to this one either. I feel a little let down, I've been itching for a good fight since the God thread dropped off. Besides, it's a nice change of pace arguing with someone other than you and Kimi. I've fought with you so much I can pretty much think-up your coming counter-arguments as I'm posting my rebuttals to your last post. It's one thing that adds time to the process because I have to keep injecting new details to try and give you as little wiggle room as possible when you reply. 'Course you always manage to find some somewhere, but it's usually by cheating.

-S-

 

According to Susan Jacoby, author of Free Thinkers: A History of American Secularism, Washington at least was an Episcopalian. However, I'm not sure how devout he was or if he was doing it for show much like Reagen did. Her books is another one I want to read but if I buy any more books without having the ones I have finished, Leila might start chucking them at the back of my head.

-S-

 

I burst out laughing at this.





Stumbler sometimes I like to argue with you too, but others you make me want to ram my head into a wall.

 

CHEATING!! How could you say such a thing ShakeZula? And what ever could you mean? You mean like piggy backing my pet peeves onto one of your posts or something like that? That's not cheating that's......a........well.......being creative.

It is, however, refreshing to find points of agreement for a change and I felt I needed to respond to your well thought out posts just because they looked lonely if nothing else.

 

I thought you might find these tidbits about Washington interesting as well as the site they come from.

George Washington
(1732-1799; "Father of His Country"; 1st U.S. President, 1789-1797)
The following year [1784], when asking Tench Tilghman to secure a carpenter and a bricklayer for his Mount Vernon estate, he [Washington] remarked: "If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists." As he told a Mennonite minister who sought refuge in the United States after the Revolution: "I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable Asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong...." He was, as John Bell pointed out in 1779, "a total stranger to religious prejudices, which have so often excited Christians of one denomination to cut the throats of those of another." (Paul F. Boller, George Washington & Religion, Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, p. 118. According to Boller, Washington wrote his remarks to Tilghman in a letter dated March 24, 1784; his remarks to the Mennonite--Francis Adrian Van der Kemp--were in a letter dated May 28, 1788.)




http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.html#II

We should actually get back to our Are We Slaves to Our Own Minds thread sometime. But right now I'm amused to see how this one is going to play out.

 

Damn! Slack off for a few days and look at what you miss! This thread was an interesting read . .Ihope it continues so I get a chance to contribute.

 

That depends on JoeDirty, I guess.

-S-

 

Since JoeDirty has failed to respond to this thread while being active on others, I think I can call that a win.

Right on.

-S-

 

"Oh, that's George, all right! Talks up a storm with those wooden teeth! But when it comes time to put the pen to the old parchmenteroonie....try and find him!"

Stan Freberg (as Benjamin Franklin)

 

I'll have to call a bullshit on this one ShakeZula. So far its been an absolute route.

First good laugh of the morning.

 

Oh....only in private ones then?

You are such a fucking idiot.

And not just a touch vain too.

It amazes me that you would allow yourself to think that your opinion might actually influence other people's thoughts.

 

Yes, God in private schools that are privately funded with no government support are fine.

And I guess I'm one of those people who has been influenced by ShakeZula's opinion, and throughout our many debates have found him to be an intelligent and very worthy opponent.

 

If you have an actual argument to the United States' separation of church and state, by all means, post it.

However, if you're just doing your normal thing of following me around and sucking my dick, don't forget to lick my balls.

-S-