Actually I thought that is exactly what you were doing when you posted this

"I don't think it would be accurate to say "this is representative." While it is likely true that at some point Hitler simply embraced christianity in order to herd the sheep, there is no real reason to think that any large religious figure in history didn't do the same thing. It doesn't somehow give christianity a get out of jail free card because an individual didn't really believe what he said did."

 

I keep telling him he has more in common than stumbler then he thinks.

-S-

 

Try as you might, I believe that I will pass on that comparison, you might note that most of my posts are not "cut and paste" and riddled with "wiki".

 

Perhaps not, but some of your positions are very similar.

-S-

 

You must be assuming that if I argue with you, I must be like Stumbler, do you think I could therefore assume that you are like Baller?

 

No, not at all. It's not that you disagree with me, it's the particulars of your belief that remind me of stumbler. I enjoy the disagreement. I'd disagree with baller all day long if he could hold a conversation without name calling and "screaming". It's all a game to me, I enjoy the verbal sparing. Win some, loose some, but most of the time that's irrelevant to the battle itself.

-S-

 

I was conceding a possibility, suppose he was still full fledged christian my overall argument isn't weakened any. And I don't claim anything from that authority.

 

Any fair minded Christian who studies the history of The Third Reich will be somewhat embarassed on behalf of his/her faith. For every Christian who took risks to oppose the Nazis several more were enthusiastic Nazis. Most Christians concealed what doubts they may have had and went along. Nevertheless, by any definition of "Christian" that merits respect, the Nazi movement was not a Christian movement, and the men who lead it were not Christians.

 

The logic goes like this: The Nazis committed genocide. To commit genocide is not consistent with Christianity. Therefore Nazis cannot have been Christians.

But the second premise is highly suspect, historically speaking.

 

One of the really big problems I see with this issue and our religious discussions in general is they are actually too complex and have too many competing causes to be pigeon holed into things like Christian/Nazi. The one thing that has come out, however, is that it cannot be said with any degree of truth that Hitler and the Nazis were atheists which is a common misconception.

That being said there is lots of Christian blame to go around when it comes to how Jews have been treated by Christianity throughout history. Two examples usually over looked in World War II was the predominately Christian US refusing to bomb the death camps even after they were informed what was going on there and directly asked to bomb them, and the Vatican's aid and assistance to Nazi war Criminals because they were staunch anti-communists.

 

I agree. Unfortunately, politics and war make for some very strange bedfellows, and nobody is so pure as to withstand close scrutiny and come out unscathed. That's why I have trouble with people who so neatly and glibly divide the world into "good" and "evil".

 

It is a rubric in the Episcopal Church, or at least was, that the belief or righteousness of the priest administering communion did not make it invalid even if he was not righteous.
Not exact wording, its been a long time, but I remember the idea put forth.

 

We are the ones who funded soviet communism, the taliban, and al queda. all initially because they were allied against a common enemy. Then they became the enemy.

 

Well, if the church got rid of everyone that didn't act like a Christian at one time or another, they'd REALLY be up the creek.

 

"Good and bad I defined these terms--quite clear, no doubt, some how. Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." Bob Dylan--My Back Pages.

That was my experience and especially after reading Nietzsche's; Beyond Good and Evil. Now as you have pointed out to me before those concepts are so ingrained into our cultural brains I still sometimes still slip into that thinking, but at least I try to be on guard against it.

 

.

After reading all this, all I can say is..


Thank god I'm an atheist.

 

Well if you read all this then God bless you.

 

Is Christian Communist an oxymoron?

No because Christianity was founded on the communist principle of sharing, not a bad thing, but apparently humans are not EVOLVED enough to be able to make it work.

 

Soo.. which came first then? communism or Catholisism? hmm.. is this the chicken and the egg syndrome all over again?

 

I have read, but wasn't there, that China had practiced Communism once before something like in 600 An Dominoes ((date totally not sure)) and then abandoned because:




THEY COULDN'T MAKE IT WORK EVEN THEN


I think the early Xtians dreamed it up on their own, but who knows may have been local precedants. Hard to tell without a time machine or the Tardis.