so thats OK then is it DL

problem here is we all have a different point of view

while i agree the French resistance were freedom fighters they did commit acts of terrorism

and if blowing up Innocent civilians is your definition of terrorism answer this question

IRA murdering terrorist or freedom fighters

the answer to this question shows a lot of Americans up as hypocrites

 

I don't see that as a refutation of the facts I presented, or an argument about the point made. That's just avoiding the issue. Try engaging with the points I made. It would help the debate along, I suspect.

 

I don't think I did, the IRA soldiers also committed murder for a disturbed cause and they are also mostly dead men.

 

This is another thing that we can agree on.

 

I do not use the term "freedom fighter," and cannot remember when I did. Back in the 1970's I attended a political gathering in which a "guerrilla leader" (I will call him that) who belonged to an organization fighting the white majority regime of Rhodesia gave a talk.

When the question and answer period came, I said, "The standard of living for blacks had declined in every black African country since it gained its independence from a European colonial empire. Blacks have a higher standard of living in South Africa (which was still under apartheid at the time) than anywhere else in Africa. I expect you to win eventually in Rhodesia. Why do you think you will do a better job there?

He did not give an answer to my question, but implied that if I was a good person, I would not have asked the question. Because everyone else at the gathering was far to the left of me, I pretended to be humbled.

Well this "freedom fighter" did win. Rhodesia changed its name to Zimbabwe. According to the CIA World Factbook, Zimbabwe has a per capita GDP of $200. That means that is is the 228th poorest out of the 228 countries listed.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publica...abwe&countryCode=zi&regionCode=af&rank=228#zi

If that freedom fighter who dodged my question remained a crony of Robert Mugabe he is probably in possession of an estate, several Mercedez-Benzs, and an interracial bevy of mistresses. If he fell out of grace, he may have been executed.

 

How about the villages, and towns, and refugee camps full of Palestinians the Israeli bombers blew up first? That doesn't count does it DL? Because they are white like us.

 

It's an interesting story, DL, but it doesn't actually speak to the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter. You seem in your recent posts to be unable to reach any clarity on what the question is, let alone what the answer might be, if indeed there is one.

 

As I have pointed out on many occasions, the Palestinians started it. The Jews came as peaceful immigtants. They did not take land violently. They bought it and settled it. If the Palestinians had accepted the UN Partition of 1947, they would not be getting blown up.

If Hamas had not been firing rockets at Israel, Gaza would not have been invaded.

 

A terrorist is someone not in a national military force who specializes in civilian targets.

I do not have a definition of freedom fighter. I think violent revolutions rarely achieve anything worthwhile.

 

And I've told you I have absolutely no problem with Jews. That is a religion. What I clearly referred to was the NATION OF ISRAEL. Which after being created as a nation by UN by resolution, violated the terms and provisions of that resolution and resorted to the Government and Military Troops of Israel committing terrorism, war crimes and murder of innocent Palestinians in order to drive them from their legally deeded and UN mandated personal land.

See that's not the same thing at all. Not when the Palestinians learned first hand from the Israelis that terrorism works. And sometimes its the only thing that will. That's why its been pretty much practiced by every people and every government at one time or another.

 

The Israelis accepted the UN Partition. The Arabs rejected it. The Arabs started the fighting.

 

I'm not talking about the Arabs DL. I'm talking about the Palestinians who lived in Israel and were driven from their legal and rightful land and by the Israeli Government's use of terrorism, and murder, which incidentally continues to this day.

The only way you can condemn Palestinian terrorism is to be a hypocritical bigot DL.

 

Once again, the Jewish immigrants to the land of their ancestors did not initiate the use of violence. They defended themselves when the Palestinians initiated violence. The Jews had no reason to initiate the use of violence, because they could outperform the Palestinians peacefully.

 

Because the Jews were "better", right?

 

"The average IQ of Ashkenazi Jews is 107 to 115, well above the human average of 100."
http://www.slate.com/id/2177228/

That is obvious wherever Jews live, including Israel.

 

So DL by your standards here Britain would have been justified in launching air strikes against villages in Ireland to kill known IRA Terrorists

would you have supported that action and the inevitable deaths of innocent Irish civilians as completely as you do the actions of the Israelis

or perhaps are you a hypocrite who supports terrorisim if he agrees with the aims of the perpetrators

the question a lot of Americans will not give a straight answer to after 9/11 IRA murdering Terrorist or freedom fighter?

whats your answer DL

 

If the IRA was shooting rockets at British targets in Northern Ireland, Scotland, England, and Wales from villages in Ireland,

if those in the villages supported the IRA actions,

if the Irish government knew about it, and encouraged this to happen,

then yes of course, the British would have been justified in bombing those villages.

Keep in mind my qualifications. Because the IRA was not shooting rockets from Ireland at Great Britain, your hypothetical situation breaks down.

Also, I do consider the aims of the terrorists. I want Northern Ireland to remain part of Great Britain. I am opposed to the destruction of Israel that Hamas desires. We should keep in mind that Hamas, which rules Gaza, does desire the destruction of Israel. The Irish Republican Army never never called for the destruction of Great Britain.

-------

Hamas Charter

Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors...

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah, derives from Islam its way of life and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.
http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html

 

like many Americans you avoided answering the question

IRA terrorist organisation Yes or No

the IRA fired bullets and mortars from Ireland in to northern Ireland and the locals did suport the IRA and its aims as did many in New York and Boston. Also the Irish government refused the British forces permission to cross in to Ireland creating a safe haven for the IRA. when the British army destroyed or blocked roads and bridges in to NI so all traffic had to go thro check points the Irish government rebuilt the bridges and unblocked the roads
no member of the IRA was ever extradited from Ireland to the UK how much support dose a government have to give a Terrorist organisation

and remember this was the 60s the weapon of the terrorist was the bomb and the mortar not rockets

 

The IRA was a terrorist organization. The British were justified in doing anything to defeat it.

 

yes or no i would have accepted your answer DL it just bugs me that a lot of Americans post 9/11 avoid the question because of their support for the IRA

its a bit of a personal rant with me

but that aside I will explain why i think Israel and America are wrong in their handling of the Palestinians

their was i time when i wanted the RAF to strike against Ireland and the army to cross the border and kill IRA members. this did not happen and one of the main reasons was that our government wanted to keep yours on side and it was plain that the USA would not accept cross border strikes also history proved that militant action by the army against the IRA increased support
I was against the talks between the IRA and my government and resented the USA forcing the issue

in this i was wrong only talking will solve the problem.

Israeli occupation of the weast bank and settlements is creating the same resentment that was evident in NI . if they where protecting their own borders they would have my full support but they should not be allowed to keep the occupied territories, this and every civilian death is a recruiting campaign for hamas

one day Israel is going to have to talk to hamas and we will have to talk to the insurgents in Afghanistan

with out this the only way to victory is genocide

and remember the Israelis are also guilty of Murdering a British Pacifist who went to Palestine supporting the aims of the Palestinian people BUT who believed they could defeat Israel by peacefully means, by giving up violence and provoking violence from the Israelis they could turn US public opinion against Israel

he was killed by a single gun shot from across the Israel border