The illusion of choice is the very basis of democracy. We vote, the politicians change, but when it's all said and done the civil servants have been the same for decades. Let's face it, they're the ones that actually do the work and make the decisions.
There was a British comedy series called 'Yes, Minister', during the eighties that demonstrated that beautifully.

 

What a great idea, just let the game determine the winner. No campaign contributions, no advertising, no smear campaigns, don't even have to bother to vote anymore.

They could call it the ELECTORAL GAME!

 

Kimi, you know I have the utmost respect for you.


But if you think the rank and file American citizen will stand for intellectual elitism, I think you're wrong. The ablility or inability to formulate sentances and wax eloquently, has little bearing on ones intellegence. Many great minds were attached to very poor vocabularies, many great vocabularies were attached to shallow minds.

The test will be how he performs when he takes the oath, words mean nothing without deeds.

Now I do agree that the "illusion" that has been put forth will go a long ways towards rebuilding our nation and our international relations bridges. He will probably be given a much longer honeymoon than usual, because the American people are behind him.

 

The term "intellectual elitism" is really terrible I think. Knowledge is something that should be sought and respected whether one is rich, poor, democratic, republican, whatever. It is important that we continue to encourage intellectual gain throughout our country. The Christian fundamentalist right (which I find ignorant [8 years of Lutheran School]), and other groups of bigoted, angry people will only be calmed through a broadening of life experiences. It is not until these people get out of their boxes that they begin to see the world for what it is- for instance, that homosexuality is a state of being that one is born into, not a choice, and that they have no right to take that away, nor a reason to be afraid of it. I feel that all people should be encouraged to travel, not be stagnant, to love and not be judgmental, and to seek knowledge instead of revenge. Our greatest hope is to teach the children of the bigoted and war-hungry, and allow their stubborn parents to die-off in their own time. Each one teach one.

 

I've thought on this before, and the concept frightens me.

If it IS true, or even partly true, what can we do to change it?

 

.............violent overthrow?

 

In another thread, the issue of multi-culturalism was brought up for discussion.

This is no different, whether you agree or not, we are nation of many cultures. A person raised in rural Southeastern America has a great deal of cultural differences than on raised in South Boston. All of the sub-cultures are a deep part of the American fabric, to think that one group has superiority over another is what will keep us divided.

The educated persons who consder their intellect to be superior to those who are less educated, will also continue the divide. Religious leaders also owe their congregations more latitude in replacing the creationist theology with a more modern one.

But old habits in religion, as old habits in culture die hard, probably for good reason.

 

Best wishes to Obama- His election is exciting.... But it is ALSO important that we don't let our government in general become too powerful. If he is as good as he looks, Obama will listen to the people as we beg for the Patriot Act to be repealed, and to have our rights, privacy, and many freedoms returned.

 

I think banning Creationism being taught in public schools is pretty Unconstitutional, but if anything, it should be an elective or something I guess. It shouldn't be forced on anybody, but it also shouldn't be kept from anybody who wants to learn it. That's how it is in Catholic schools, religion is a COMPLETELY seperate subject, and no aspects of it enter into any of the other subjects, like science.

 

There are so many different versions of creationism, almost every religion ever created has one and they are all equally supported by evidence. What real talking points can be said on the subject?

......The ID "documentary" No Intelligence allowed is coming on right now so maybe I will have more answers to that soon.

 

There isn't much to learn about creationism 'God clicked his fingers and there it all was', there you go, have the rest of the term off.

 

I often go along with the manipulated populace theory but not this time. Now let me be practical here. Obama will definitely have to make some shifts. Its easy to think you know what needs to be done while on the outside looking in. Its a different game once you're actually on the inside. But here are the differences I see in this election. First the largest voter turn out in 90 years. Second, who those voters were, as in unprecedented numbers of young and first time voters. Third the minority demographics that helped tip the election to Obama. I actually think all that points to something beyond the control of the powers that be.

It doesn't mean they will not end up weighing heavily on Obama but I really do believe this was one no one expected and when the ground swell began it was too late to stop it.

The campaign is over tenguy you don't need to keep tossing out buzz words like elitist or intellectual elitist because you're the only one saying that. It isn't a question of Obama or anyone else thinking they are smarter than anyone else. Part of Obama's intelligence and mark of leadership is you can tell he doesn't think along those lines. I've never seen any indication that he even thinks he's smart let alone intellectually elite.

I can't speak for Kimiko but to me what we are talking about in Obama's intelligence as opposed to George Bush's lack of same is the ability to reason and think things through with in the context of a broad perspective.

I think this is already happening. It is the younger people who actually elected Obama and to them his race or origin did not matter. I think what did matter was his vision of a better and brighter future for all Americans and I think that resonnated with them.

BB it will remain to be seen but I think we took a big step towards making that change last night.

I agree with most of what you are saying here but would point out that no one here is saying anyone else's intelligence is superior to anyone elses excxept in drawing the comparisions between Barack Obama and George W. Bush.

Now if that's what you're really saying that Barack Obama's level of intelligence does not exceed Bush's I think we have something to debate.

 

The implication behind your apprehensions is that there is a shadowy ruling class behind the scenes that determines elections. I do not believe that. The United States is a democracy. The people rule. Some of those people are stupid right wing nut cases, but together we call the shots.

 

my hopes:

Among my hopes is that it will become politically correct to state several truths publically: the earth is over six thousand years old; the similarities between humans and chimpanzees are not coincidental; the greenhouse effect is true; tax cuts cause budget deficits; tax increases cause budget surpluses.

 

Are you actually suggesting that reality, and not fantasy, should be our guide?

 

With the Democrats in power reality might actually become our guide. We have seen what eight years of fantasies have done to the country.

 

Holy GOD! Well put, man!

 

Yes I agree. It's not about policies or the laws or the taxes. The only thing that separates Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans are idiots. In fact many of us Republicans tried to get into the liberal click, but we didn't test high enough on our IQ tests so we settled... I can't wait till Obama takes away all my taxes and makes it so I don't have to pay for gas.

 

Tenguy, I thought I made it clear in my original post that I was not equating eloquence to intelligence. I alluded to Obama's educational achievements, his unusual, multi-cultural and well-traveled background, and the breadth of his vision.

As for "intellectual elitism", this country has been run for several years by people who are defined by their wealth, whose main interest is to increase said wealth at the expense of everyone else. And they've done it by dumbing down ordinary people, feeding them a steady diet of red meat, appealing to their worst instincts and their worst fears.

I'll take my chances with the "intellectual elite". I don't want to have a beer with the president...I want him to understand the problems and opportunities that confront the country and the world and act on them.