At least I'm honest about talking shit, you do it like a catty ass little bitch.

And no, you claimed things and talked shit on the Church, stumbler put up a bunch of websites, a lot of which seemed pretty biased or not written by people who should be considered the authority on subjects. I read the exact same thing I was saying, about the Christians changing the holiday because they wanted a winter celebration(they already fucking had a lot of converts from paganism, you fucking idiot), on the history channel's website.

 

Baller: Watch a documentary? (Say... Micheal Moore or Alex Jones? Maybe Reefer Madness would be a good one to start with)
Read a Book? (Say.... Mein Kompf or Sigmund Frued, how about curious george?)

Just because a source is considered "Valid" does not make it so, and if a source is notoriously invalid doesn't mean there isn't any truth to what it has to say.

Let's draw a few comparisons to some things..

The CIA, the FBI, the Vatican, The Church of Scientology, The KGB, The Gestapo ALL Have this in common:

1: They have very private records and information that they guard diligently.
2: They have means of acquiring this information that they guard diligently.
3: They have a vested interest in the state of political affairs in the world around them
4: They have motive and ability to influence these affairs around them via 1 and 2.

So be insulted. Just don't be ignorant.

 

I'm not ignorant son, you are.

Don't post in discussions high, mmmkay?

And if you're gonna make claims, you better be able to back them up with REPUTABLE sources.

 

Shameless name dropping moments from Old Tool - file this under bizarre coincidence, or 'what a small world it is'.

Congressman Leo Ryan was a relative of mine (not immediate family) & I have been personally acquainted with Jim Jones Jr. (adopted son of the people's Temple founder) for over 10 years. He is, amazingly, one of the most mellow, well-adjusted and truly nice people I've ever known - and his family is great.

 

Baller:

Prove me wrong.


With reputable sources.

 

You made the claims, it's on YOUR shoulders to prove them with sources.

 

Amazing how many continue to thrive !


TOP TEN CULTS...and yes Scientology is missing:

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/top-10-crazy-cults-1.html

 

awwwww gee is everyone picking on little baller baby?he is getting mad , he is swearing.. OH WOW how that makes everyone shiver.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Very well.

I'll walk out on a huge branch of assumption and only work to validate my claims toward the catholic church, because if you believe the FBI, CIA, KGB, and gestapo (Nicknamed the secret police because they clearly shared all the information they possessed or were interested in with the public) share their information and such with the public then I don't know what to tell you. I suppose I could tell you then that no one has ever been tried for treason. In fact treason doesn't even really exist.

That of course was more sarcasm.

The most notable would be uh...

The execution of Mary Queen of Scotts. Wherein Mary, The King of Spain, and the Catholic church conspired to Assassinate Queen Elizabeth.

In 1580 Pope Gregory XIII proclaimed in 1580 that it would be no sin to rid the world of such a miserable heretic. (Something about a vested interest in the world around them and for such a power as england to no longer be under a Catholic leaders rule caused deep concerns within the catholic church) and such a public proclamation could easily be considered a call to arms against the protestant Queen.

To draw a correlation to modern times... George W. calling the war in the middle east a "Crusade"... a perhaps unintentional rally(although highly unlikely unintentional) for devout christians to mount the offensive against the muslims.. but that's nether here nor there and is me just speculating so disregard at your leisure.

It would be 7 years later that Mary would be executed after Sir Francis Walsingham uncovered communiques between her and the king of spain (A devout Catholic acting as the military arm of the catholic church) plotting an assassination attempt against the queen. Had the assassination worked Mary Queen of Scots would have been queen and the history of the world would be perhaps entirely different today. However, even if the plot failed and Mary was caught within the plot, her execution would give Spain the excuse it needed to declare war on England to remove the heretical queen and return england to Catholic dominance.

Here's a link http://www.hq69.dial.pipex.com/Pages/elizabet.html
The encyclopedia britannica online has a link, but as a poor bastard I cannot afford to subscribe to it's bounty of information that I'm sure you would find..."reputable"

Then of course there would be the ridolfi plot
Link here http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ridolfi-plot

Which basically is another roman catholic plot to remove the queen from power by freeing Mary queen of the scots and marrying her with the Duke of Norfolk.

And then a more recent CIA assessment in Chile':
The 1970 NIE stated, in strong terms, that an Allende administration would proceed as rapidly as possible toward the establishment of a Marxist-Socialist state. It would be a Chilean version of a Soviet-style East European Communist state. The intelligence community predicted that although democracy was likely to survive in Chile over the next two or three years, Allende could take Chile a long way down the Marxist-Socialist road during the six years of his administration. To do this, however, he would have to surmount some very important obstacles, such as Chile's security forces, the Christian Democratic Party, some elements of organized labor, the Congress, and the Catholic Church. The NIE noted that Allende undoubtedly expected progress on basic bread and butter issues which would afford him an apportunity to secure control of the Congress in the 1973 election and thereby enable him to impose a socialist state of the Marxist variety by the vía pacífica ("peaceful road").

Link:http://foia.state.gov/Reports/ChurchReport.asp

And here's a page you may find interesting in regards to Nazi germany:

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_catholic_church.htm

in particular this paragraph:
The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.

In particular the VATICAN REPRESENTATIVE.

But I digress...

 

Everything you claim is just you speculating, and you're a fucking idiot for talking the way you do.

The Catholic Church does not have people "rubbed out", sorry.

 

Well...not lately, anyway. That we know of. But they probably wouldn't issue a press release if they did.

 

They had people killed for Heresy back in the day(and by that I mean probably up until right before the Middle Ages), and there were a few corrupt Popes and Bishops in the Middle Ages through maybe even The Renassiance period, but the Church as a whole does not have people snuffed, and has not since The Dark Ages.

To compare them to top-secret government organizations though is both insulting and ignorant.

 

Baller, I submit that you don't have the slightest clue what the upper echelons of the Catholic Church are up to at any given moment. There are billions of dollars at stake.

 

Tell the Huegenots(sp!) that and the people in southern France. They committed wholesale genocide.Also the Templars.

 

Perhaps they do Baller. The church is one of the most powerful 'secret societies' in the world. It has the money, the power and the history to have people rubbed out.

Don't think, that just because the church nowadays teaches love of your fellow man that they are not driven by power and greed. If they were less driven by them, then perhaps we'd see a real reduction in the amount of people starving to death in war torn countries.

But historically, the church was a thing to be reviled - it was the people in power who tore through Europe in the era of the Spanish Inquisition, which replaced the Medieval Inquisition. The difference between the two was the seat of power. The Medieval Inquisition was run directly out of Rome, and the Spanish Inquisition had it's seat in Spain - but both had the blessing of the Church to 'seek out heretics' and put them on trial.

Even today, the Inquisition lives on - ie the Church is involved with the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, supporting the torture and killing of Hindus and Buddists (as well as through the rest of the world). The fact that the connection isn't reported daily in our new media rests more with the fact, I suppose, that the Church has the funds to buy the silence of reporters.

Then you have the abuses carried on in the name of the church - have you never heard of the Magdalen Laundries? A place where (usually) pregnant unwed women and girls were put to work in the service of the church - living and working under the harshest of conditions, punished and abused by those who were meant to be looking out for them.

Many of the women died in the service, their deaths not recorded (as was the law) and the bodies buried in unmarked graves in Dublin. An old horror story from a time before the 'modern church'? No - the last laundry closed it's doors within YOUR lifetime. Read Kathy O'Beirne's book - Kathy's Story: A Childhood Hell Inside The Magdalene Laundries. The author is still alive, living in Dublin (I think). After reading the book and weeping my way through the story of her life, I got in touch with the publishers, and asked them to pass on my best wishes. Ms O'Bierne wrote me a thank you note.

 

nor do I claim to, but it's insulting as hell to compare them to top-secret government organizations.

My point is that the Church is not the fucking CIA. Things that people do who supposedly represent the Church is not what the Church does as a whole. I agree, it probably is still corrupt, but I highly doubt that the Pope knows about any of that, and if he does, that he supports or condones it. It is insulting as hell to talk about an organization that is the reason for things like the Red Cross as if they're a government agency who tortures and kills people.

For Christ's sake, Pope John Paul II got shot and he forgave the guy who shot him! Does that sound like somebody who would murder?

 

Number one, I did NOT swear at you - please afford me the same common courtesy. If you can't stand criticism stop posting.

Number two - the pope nowadays will be a figurehead - much like any front man for any power group - governments included. It's the people behind the scenes - the real 'higher powers' within the church who make the decisions, much like he wouldn't know how much the Vatican guards get paid. No doubt the pope isn't aware of SOME of the atrocities 'his' church is carrying out, but he'll be damn well aware of some!! Which kind of makes the whole shebang a laughing stock, don't you think?

Preaching ''Love thy fellow man'' while sticking a hot poker up someone's arse because they're not 'toeing the line'?

Baller, are you aware that people CAN actually disagree with what you say? That you do NOT know everything about everything? Just because you shout the loudest, does not mean you're right about everything.

 

Number One- You're not criticizing me, you're criticizing the Church, and I grew up around preists, and all of them were good men. All of my theology teachers were good men/women, and a bunch of them dealt with a lot of hardships daily that eventually took their lives, and yet they still did what they did, and not for themselves. To insult these people by neglecting all of the good the Church does is unnacceptable.

Number Two- of course he's a figurehead. I agreed with you that the Church as an organization is probably still corrupt. That is why the Church shouldn't be powerful, and as an organization it needs to be reformed, big time.

Lastly, I don't claim to be or talk like I'm an expert, nor have I ever. I say something to those who do, and if they didn't have such attitudes, I wouldn't. Quit being so god damn bitter to me, because I let you say all of that bullshit about me to me that one day, because it was somewhat understandable, but I will not tolerate anymore of this crap from somebody who I had been nothing but a friend to.

 

I'm sticking on topic with this Baller - I've said all I've had to say on that and it's over with in my opinion. However, I reserve the right to disagree with you, and will argue my point succinctly, and emotionlessly.

I'm not saying there are people who join the Church as priests, nuns, theologians etc who don't join because they believe the teachings, what I AM saying, and will continue to do so, is that there is documented evidence to support the Church being involved in atrocities worldwide.

I also grew up 'in the faith' but I'm also a realist. I can see how the Church acts - this has naff all to do with what religion I was brought up in. The teachings of Christ did not mention ''thou will surround yourself with stolen wealth and order the deaths of millions''

However, every single person within the upper echelons of the church (and yes, I am including the pope in this and I'll explain why later), will be aware of at least part of what the church is doing globally.

The pope was a cardinal in the church before being elected to his exalted position. Being at such a high level, he would have been making decisions within his own see, as well as being aware of decisions made in other sees. To claim he 'knows nothing about the atrocities' is like saying Bush knew nothing about Guatanamo Bay or what goes on there.

The authoress I mentioned earlier - Kathy O'Brien? Even though she suffered abuse within the confines of the laundries, and is (more than I) aware of how evil the church is, still practices the Catholic religion. Why? Because she's a Catholic and that is her religion. You should read the book, really. It may just open your eyes to what goes on and what is really sanctioned by the higher ups in the church.

 

Okay, I'll admit that I may have let the whole "bashing the Church and making it out to be an evil organization that never did any good nor does it do any good today and wants to kill everybody and everything that is good" thing done by people in this thread get to me, and jumped down THLC's throat, but the dude is a pothead who gets high and has "epiphanies" and who gets his info from other people like that, and it's obvious by all of his posts in discussions. I was about to be like "my fault man, I overreacted a bit" and then he came out with his attitude and his bullshit info and taking shots at the Church that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and had the nerve to call me ignorant, because I didn't buy into his biased "truth".

You wanna disagree with me and argue your point, then go right the hell ahead, but quit taking personal shots at me.