Those terms still hold value to whoever holds or uses them.

 

It also hasn't really worked that well where ever it was tried. The experiences of Cuba, N. Korea and the USSR are hardly glowing.

 

None of those terms have been distorted, they mean what they have always meant. Not a bad thing? Where were you born? That is exactly Obamas Agenda which I don't want. There is a universal truth...

 

Why don't you do a little homework, deidre, and tell me what Russia, China, Syria, Somalia, the Taliban and Al Qaeda actually spend on their militaries. And then compare that to what WE spend, and tell me again why I should be as frightened as you appear to be.

I'll be waiting.

 

Well since you brought it up; God what an idiotic simpleton. But I also go by the golden rule which is why I am being very insulting and mean spirited to you because that is the way you treat others.

But how fucking stupid can you be to cut and paste something like this when it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Especially when you prove yourself a contradictory fool in the process.

You say you follow these ancient laws. Well you're a liar. Let me highlight for you the ones you don't follow.

There's four right there that you don't follow Deidre dear. You obviously lie cheat and steal and there is little chance you're a virgin.

 

Universal health care....

The only problem with it is that America's taxes are already too high, or better said, the money isn't being spent properly. In order to have a decent health care system, the government would have to revise our actual budget.

But, I can agree on the need for health care for each citizen. But, it should work in a way that everyone starts out with the same health care, but if someone wishes to have better coverage, they can pay into the system to receive a better plan. All basic plans would cover a certain percent. There's no way to cover the whole country without the expenses killing the economy.

I sure wish I had insurance to cover my huge prescription costs. It's scary not having anything to fall back on.

 

How can the expenses "kill the economy" when those expenses are, for all intents and purposes, being paid now, by someone. That was the whole point of my original post. The amount being paid for health care should actually go down, not up...but it's a question of who pays how much.

 

I would like to point out the obvious. I'm sure Deidre went to public schools or at least I assume she did because she can read and write. But schools cannot teach students how to think or what to think. Parents do that. So if we want to look at the dangerous fallacy here all we have to do is look at how Deidre turned out.

What an utter fool you are when it comes to this. You want to claim some failure that does not exist and complain about what actually proves the Federal government can administer and manage what is actually a very good program which you constantly contradict yourself on.

Here let me prove it to you. Are you saying we should do away with the Social Security program?

I did research it remember on the Are you Politically Conservative Or Liberal thread and showed everything you are saying here to be false. What you are looking at are just numbers on paper when if the fund was not raided and was paid back with interest then it would not be in a number's crunch.

But the point is this. The federal government has done a great job of administering the program and managing it. Only the politicians have fucked it up and despite that which will have to be corrected politically the program has run well for more than 70 years in what it is supposed to do which is serve the people.

So obviously if the federal government can manage the social security program they should have no trouble managing a health care system once all the middle men and insurance companies are cut out of it.

No I think I have more than proven that the federal government can be entrusted to manage very complex systems and universal health care would be another one. I sure as hell never hear anyone saying the federal government can't administer and manage the IRS.

I'll have to look at that in eight years because I cannot predict the future. But I can damn sure see what's happened in the past eight years and the disaster No Child Left Behind has created.

No the Public Education system is not failing. There are lots of areas that need improvement but since the education system is starved for resources those improvements are hard fought and slow coming. But the system is working and could work a lot better with some of the proposals that are coming in with Obama. So we'll both get a chance to see if they work in eight years.

This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say one of your favorite tactics is to interject things that are not part of the discussion, attribut them as if someone else said them and then try to argue those points. How the fuck do you get from health care to merit pay for teachers.

But since you did you're full of shit on this one tenguy. A huge number of school districts have implimented merit pay equivelants, and you're just parroting old news.

I'm just going to call a bullshit on you here and challenge you to present some facts and sources. I'll bet you can't.

Well, well, well, what a pleasant contradiction. Here you clearly out line what the real problems are in delievering education and blaming the federal government is nowhere to be found. And then to my great delight you admit that changing economic conditions and infrastructure goes a long way toward improving education.

Thank you very much tenguy for this gem.

Yes we do see a pattern here which is getting worse all the time. Its the pattern of sacrificing everything for the profit of the military/industrial complex or trying to balance the needs of a strong military with the needs of a strong nation. We can actually have both but not when profiteering is the primary objective, which is was under Reagan, Bush and Bush.

Here we go again on one of your disjointed tangents that is miles away from the OP and flatly interjecting dogmatic charges that have no real bearing but well see in eight years. And might I add how encouraged I am to see you predicting eight years of a democratic administration of Barack Obama. Its kind of scary because you are usually wrong but I hope you're right this time.

I've told you this before but I'll say it again. You don't really give a flying fuck for what happens to the kids in this country.

I've got to get back to work but just consider the following posts the ones I intend to comment on but don't want to have to search for them again.




----------------------------------------------------------------

 

nobody likes a "voucher"-type system, eh? :-| It would be a challenge to ramp it up considering those already "in" the current system along with those that will be in the system (that number is growing steadily).

Preventative care pre-requisites to be eligible for the system. Credits for each citizen to apply as they see fit in the management of their own health-care. Insurance companies do not control the fees for services. Providers compete for these "vouchers" by providing good service at competitive rates. The mediocre go away.

Those citizens that wish to stay out can make their way through the remaining market on their own terms, thereby reducing the influence of the insurance companies.

 

I couldn't agree more. Basic for all and upgrades for those who choose to pay for the upgrades.

 

I followed this thread the first day, then it got away from me yesterday and today.

Kimi asked a good question. In theory, we could insure a lot more people if we changed the way the insurance industry worked.

I am not against everyone having insurance. I think that would be great. However, I am against putting the federal gov't in charge of such an endeavor. Somehow, how gov't would charge taxpayers three times what it should actually cost, and screw it up worse than they are currently screwing up our veteran's health care. They have failed at taking care of our war vets.

I personally don't want to use my income to pay for other's insurance, if the feds were the administrators. However, I want all children to have access to health care. I would gladly help my great state of missouri try to accomplish this for our uninsured children. It's pretty easy for me to keep an eye on my local gov't, and I can contact my state representatives easily.

I personally don't want anybody, especially the federal gov't, to mess with MY insurance. I know france and other europeans have good health care. I would be surprised if it was better than mine. I would be surprised if anyone in the world was currently recieving better health care than my mother. She is having some problems, but her care is superb.

I guess I am a social-darwinist. Is there such a thing, really?

As for Kimi's question. My short answer would be to fix our politicians first. Fix our gov't so it wasn't so lousy. Fix it so we could have confidense it could do anything but blunder and fail. Theorize all you want about how to insure more people, but our federal gov't is not up to the task. The US gov't does a horrible job providing health-care for our service vetereans. How would it do if we put it in charge of caring for everyone? Lousy is how.

 

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. We are breaking our nation, allowing our infrastructure to crumble, underfunding everything except Wall Street and the Financial Sector, racking up a $10 trillion deficit in the process and still pouring most of our resources into the military/industrial complex and making war for the profits of a few.

Man you're an airheaded bitch Deidre. This is essentially what they do now through the election of school boards.

Let me ask you a question. Did you attend public schools?

This is a very good explanation and should be simple enough for any fool to understand. What do you want to bet Deidre doesn't get though because she's not just any fool. She's special.

Way to just defeat your whole argument against universal health care. If there is no difference between for profit and non-profit hospitals why don't we take the profits out of them and put the money into actual health care?

See that in itself proves the argument in favor of universal health care and the elimination of health insurance.

How can you go against what is one of YOUR favorite mantras tenguy. Backing up much.

Contradicting yourself much?

Education would be much better served and was when school districts, state boards of education and teachers worked in cooperation to formulate curriculum, teaching methods and educational goals. And that was not all that long ago. It can not be overestimated how much the system has been damaged by the implementation of standardized tests forced on them by the Bush Administration under No Child Left Behind.

Which brings me to my next point, what the hell to you think that was all about it is was not to grade teachers and school districts on performance. They either meet the goals of these inane tests or they lose their jobs and accreditation.

You really don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

More senseless rhetoric, more baseless charges, more babbling bullshit from the empty headed Deidre. You're parroting again except I wonder if parrots aren't actually more original.

Does it ever embarrass you to know that even your insults make no sense at all Deidre. You haven't had an original thought since you joined this forum.

Then obviously our federal government meets your own definition of "Management."

We've got the best and most powerful military in the world, spend more on it then all other nations combined and you want to just keep spending more. What the fuck for?

This seems to me to be the perfect agreement with what Kimiko said about being able to cut the bloated and wasteful spending on our military.

Glad you agree and contradict yourself as usual.

You just said essentially the same thing or at least there are many areas to cut wasteful spending and then want to stereotype liberals. You're really losing it now tenguy the words are just above this.

But let me point this out to you. You would contend that we spend to much on social programs, too much on social security, too much on education. And that all of these programs are mismanaged and wasteful.

But when it comes to the military all you can say is spend more and more and the federal government runs that program just fine.

bullfuckingshit tenguy and that's all I'm going to say for now but I'll come back to this one with the real information instead of your bullshit rhetoric.

Gotcha you tenguy and good with this one. What you are describing here is exactly what we had before the implementation of No Child Left Behind by the Bush Administration. The states set standards that school districts had to meet. School distircts were and still are evaluated on a regular basis and their accreditation hangs in the balance. And every bit of it was and is public record.

What scuttled that was the No Child Left Behind act which places all the emphasis on standardized testing which took most of the local control and mutual agreements out of the system and replaced it with standardized tests which now make up the bulk of the curriculumn.

Like I told you, you really don't know what you are talking about here.

Sure, sure Deidre, Kimiko is the one that is too stupid. Lots and lots of people have told her that to her face. No wait, I'm confused. That's you. Sorry my bad.

I so admire your attempts to bring rational and logical questions to tenguy. And maybe your experience will be different. But my experience is he's so blinded by his entrenched dogma he can't even remember what he says from post to post.

It all starts with cognition and the ability to make sense Deidre. Two things you have obviously not managed to develop yet.

You'er never going to do shit Deidre but sit there and run you ignorant bitchy mouth. You're a fraud kid.

Once again in startling clarity you so precisely describe the way things were done before implimentation of No Child Left Behind. What a ridiculous and cruel joke this is when you consider that this has been replaced by the single goal of teaching kids how to pass a standardized test.

You know what at this point the term overbearing bafoon comes to my mind. How about putting the resources and emphasis into all school districts especially the poorer one's and improving them instead of just shipping students around.

Its been a long time since you've been in a school tenguy they are actually far better then you give them credit for.

You stupid twit. She just told you that we already spend more on are military then all these other nations COMBINED. Try looking that word comdined up in the dictionary you senseless fool.

Deidre if there is one thing you have established almost as well as your stupidity it is that you are indeed a racist.

 

I dunno, but I've been accused of being one 'round here

This is a much more relevant comparison of how the Federal Govt manages health care currently . . . ineptly, to be kind.