Bush may tap bailout fund to aid automakers

Personally I think the US Car makers are more or less blackmailing America with the announcement of plant closings and Bush is either being reactive or just plain complacent.

 

It is my hope that we do not front any cash to the automakers. The idea that they can reverse a few decades of mis-management and pandering to unions will not easily be undone.

The only way that they can survive is to make the changes required, sooner than later, the stopgap measures will only slow their ultimate demise. Let's get it over with, if they liquidate their unrelated assets and concentrate on building the competetive vehicles that are needed they have a chance. They have zero chance of doing this when saddled with billions in benefits that are not a factor with their competition.

So to me, the choice is, keep them in operating cash and preserve the status quo, or let them go under and make room for an US industry that can compete. This is damn near exactly what happened in the steel industry thirty years ago. It is a story of heavy handed industry being brought to terms by labor unions, the passing of the increased costs to the user and foreign competition going for the throat of a slow, ponderous beast. The unions stood their ground and lost their livelyhoods, they're very close to doing it again.

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0704/Strohmeyer/Strohmeyer.html

The Demise Of Big Steel

John Strohmeyer

 

Gee why am I not surprised that you would take this position. A position that was highlighted yesterday by the President of the Auto Makers Union which said the actual opposition to the bailout by republicans has three motivations. One: Union Busting. Two: Protecting the foreign auto makers which have set up in several southern states. Three: (read from an email message). Pay back for union members voting democratic in the last election.

 

What position do you take??

 

the 700 billion plan that was passed for the jew crook bankers, was not the limit or a one time deal, after they passed it, there is no cap off to it.... so 700 billion could turn out to be 900 billion and so on, if they dont let the Co's fail, i will be surprised, there going to get the funds but there going to fail anyway just like the banking is.. the US government is buying up all they can with worthless $$ they might as well be spending monopoly money, the US $ in effect is the same thing, i suggest that you all start reading my what really happen thread to keep up on REAL events


SUCKERS!!!!

 

people all members of the board world wide, buy things that you can use while the $ still has buying power, this is not just for americans, but for our brothers and sisters on the other side of the pond, buy small game traps, fishing tackle, an air riffle, dont buy a gun, if you do make it a small Cal. .22 ammo is cheap and takes up little room and if it gets wet it wont go bad, a good survival book

US army survival manual free PDF down load a ton of good information from how to make traps,, shelters, cloths, and so on

http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/...ivalManual.pdf

 

That this is no time for union busting, protecting local interests, or petty political paybacks on the part of conservatives.

Its a time to take drastic steps to keep this nation from free falling into a full fledged depression. If it was just the auto industry and the auto workers at stake if would be one thing. But it isn't. Its thousands of other businesses and millions of other employees that are also at risk. We've already lost more then a million jobs this year. The collapse of the auto industry would make that a few million more. For everyone of those jobs lost it will effect several others. Maybe you're not old enough to have actually lived through the depression but surely you have heard first hand from people who did. I'm not sure its possible for us to impress on the people alive now just how bad it was or how long it lasted.

Here's an example I heard just this morning. The downturn and impending collapse of the auto industry is having a serious impact on Soap Operas. Now how remote is that? But its true because car dealers are a major advertising source for daytime TV and the ads are drying up. I only bring that up to show the extent of the ramifications on our overall economy and lives.

I don't think in the age nuclear weapons we can afford to go into a full fledged depression and then survive a world war in order to pull ourselves out of it. Do you? Because that's what happened last time.

 

wise words, well stated

 

Have the auto workers union said they are not willing to make concessions? Fuck no!! They said they would not be crowded into making concessions by a bunch of union busting pissed off protectionist republicans.

So typical though tenguy that you can harp on and on about the unions not making concessions when the MANAGEMENT of the auto industry also have refused to make concessions on THEIR SALARIES AND BONUSES.

Damn, then you guys had it good didn't you? My grandparents and mother had to move back up here and all crowd together with the rest of their families in log cabins where they were snowed in for the winter. And you know what they talk about? How fucking lucky they were to have some place to go instead of the migrant camps.

It amazes me tenguy just how fucking stupid you can be sometimes. It was the people's resolve that pulled us out of the depression? Fuck no! It was FDR's new deal, which you constantly bitch about. It was Civilian Conservation Corps. It was exactly the kind of government programs that you constantly call "socialism" that even made a dent in depression.

Different times and different tactics you say. What the hell do you think our government is trying to do? Use different tactics to head off the destruction of a depression.

And so typical of you and conservative ideology to in essence say look I got mine so fuck the rest of you.

JOBS Deidre, I mean tenguy. Jobs. Each one lost effects several others. Here the reports on the thoushands of car dealers closing down. Lost jobs tenguy. How about thoushands of retail businesses going out of business. Jobs tenguy. People without jobs can't even buy food or shelter. Jobs tenguy are our only salvation.

JOBS
​

Nope. I'm not going to let you get away with trying to misdirect the argument here.

What I said is the last time our nation slipped into a depression, dispite the best efforts of our government, we did not really pull out of the depression until we entered World War II. We can't survive a real world war in the nuclear age so that form of salvation from a depression is not an option. So the only reasonable and logic solution is to not allow our nation to slip into a full fledged depression.

JOBS
​

JOBS​

 

the guy knows what he is talking about. i always like the older generation better as most of my freinds are 50 + years old , they know what things use to be like before the take over of our government and the invasion of our country by immigrants

 

A bankruptcy filing by General Motors Corp. or Chrysler LLC might send the U.S. economy into chaos within weeks if it led to a shutdown at the companies.

Industry experts and economists say the automakers would close plants, fire tens of thousands of workers and cut production. That would cause many of their suppliers to collapse, triggering more job losses, straining the cities and states where the car and parts companies operate, as well as federal safety-net programs.

Full article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...zU&refer=home#

 

you think obama will do better than bush?

 

You know what.. I actually live in Detroit.:?

You should see it here, it's unbearable. Anyone who says they shouldn't bail out the BIG 3 due to decades of mis-management, doesn't live here. You can point that mis-management to our unwillingness to make more fuel efficient cars, yes. But don't forget who is stealing all the fucking oil and raising the prices... Bush. This is by far no fault of any regular person who lives in Michigan and yet we suffer harder than anyone in the US. And also, unless you live here and you see it first hand. TAKE MY FAT FUCKING DICK HEAD PUT IT IN YOUR MOUTH, AND GARGLE MY BALLSACK. THE WORLD DEPENDS ON DETROIT MICHIGAN. PERIOD.

 

think its bad now? just wait until all the blacks start rioting looting when there state welfare stops coming in. im not trying to or wishing to be racist, just pointing out there trends in the past


I have suffered for the love of my country
i never agreed with the campaigns i was
involved in Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan,
Iraq. these places are forever etched in my mind
the worst part of being a soldier is you cant
choose the wars your country fights you wear
the burden for life.

 

I shouldn't be surprised that Tenguy's position on this matter is a cross between Herbert Hoover's and Marie Antoinette's. Benign neglect and the bankruptcy judge will take care of everything.

Look, it isn't going to happen. Bush doesn't want to add the demise of the American auto industry to his list of disasters, not if a mere $15 billion can tide them over until he's out of office, which is already readily available from the TARP.

But Stumbler is right. There's more than enough evidence to conclude that the GOP, as usual, is a lot more interested in union-busting than they are in the economic well-being of working Americans. And they wonder why they've been losing elections lately...

 

This whole thing is a mess, I freely admit that. But in my mind Barack Obama is on the right track. We need to create millions of new jobs. But the trick to avoiding total disaster and a full scale depression is to preserve as many jobs as possible until new jobs can be created. That's were even stop gap measures to save the auto industry and the millions of other businesses and jobs that depend on it is so important.

 

Indeed...I don't think the best way to start off a jobs creation program is to destroy a few million jobs. I don't have a problem with negotiating some concessons from the UAW, particularly regarding retiree health care, but as I understand it, the UAW has already made major concessions that will, among other things, achieve wage parity with the foreign carmakers by 2011.

 

For someone not trying to be racist, you really do a terrific job of it.