unfortunatly there is some truth inhis statement with out the US the war in europe would probably have ground to a armd deaw as hitler was stupid enough to invade the USSR befor finishing of the UK

how ever i fell no need to bash america just like us they can do that to them selves with out any help form outsiders

 

too bloody true mate
death to starbucks

 

:rose:Being an American myself...I find it hard 2 understand as 2 y we hve 2 go around the world thinkin we hve to save everybody....Y can't we save our country from its self.....We have people here that are commiting crimes and starving....If the people of other countries want 2 blow themselves up then so be it.....Im not against helping other nations...But just that HELP not solve.....We r not the world savoir...it just bugs me.... sry..but really:rose:

 

o hai!
i love the u.s.a. if you don't, fuck you. granted we are an arrogant bunch, and our economy sucks. our justice system needs a lot of help. most, if not all the politicians that run my beloved country are crooked. the amount of people becoming homeless is on the rise. crime continues to escalate. and a proper education seems to be something of the past. the u.s. has the most millionaires per capita than anywhere in the world, yet we have people starving, or freezing because they have to choose between buying medicine or warmth and nourishment.
kthanxbai!

 

Home Sweet Home

 

As to the WWII debate :

(quote)
Who won World War II in Europe?
There’s no easy answer, said Norman Davies, an Oxford-educated British historian and Poland specialist who has written widely on the 1939-1945 conflict.
During the Wiktor Weintraub Memorial lecture, sponsored by the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies, Davies used the disarming question as a wedge to pry open the real story of the war in Europe.
It wasn’t the “good war” of liberation and victory that is widely celebrated in the West, he contended. World War II was — if measured by sheer duration and by the scale of killing — a grinding struggle in eastern and central Europe that pitted one tyranny against another, then suffocated democracy in most of Europe for decades.
The hour-long talk was delivered at Harvard Sept. 20. Sitting as rapt as grade-schoolers were about 100 onlookers in the Thompson Room, which was jammed from one polished wall to another.
Davies prides himself on having been a schoolteacher for four years before getting down to the business of writing history. It was an experience that taught him the usefulness of big questions, and the narrative power of analogy.
He’s written 13 books since 1972, including the recent historical survey, “Europe at War 1939-1945: No Simple Victory.” In it, he tries to adjust the perspective that the brunt of the war was borne by the Western powers.
A few years ago, while writing his book “Rising 44: The Battle for Warsaw,” Davies said he was struck by how widespread misconceptions are about the war in Europe. Celebrations in 2005 of the 60th anniversary of the war’s end deepened in him the idea that there was no real perspective on what happened in the Soviet-Nazi war.
From June 1941 to the summer of 1944, this collision of two totalitarian powers accounted for 80 percent of the fighting in World War II, said Davies — a fact since largely obscured by a post-war fog of Allied mythmaking.
Among the Davies so-called myths:
That D-Day was big and decisive. (About 80 percent of German forces were lost on the Eastern Front, he said, where the biggest battles raged.)
That the West triumphed over the Third Reich. (Germany was all but defeated by the Soviets well before the Allies landed troops on the continent, he contended.)
In fact, asserted Davies, it was the Red Army that played the decisive role in defeating Germany, “and they were in the service of an evil tyranny.”
Sheer numbers alone help dispel myths about the war, he said. In 1939, the United States had half as many trained soldiers as Poland — and it took until 1944 to muster 100 American divisions. The Germans fielded 230 divisions, and the Soviets as many as 400.
Other numbers tell the story of the scale and horror that characterized the Soviet war. Davies asserted that more men were shot by Stalin’s secret police during the war, for instance, than were lost by the entire armed forces of Great Britain.
And epic battles? Try the six-month battle for Stalingrad, he said, where 1.5 million were killed. Or the monumental clash of Soviet and Nazi tanks, planes, and soldiers during the battle of Kursk in 1943. More than 6,000 tanks were involved, almost as many planes, and a staggering 2.2 million soldiers.
As for the myth that the war liberated Europe, said Davies: Most of Europe went from being under Hitler’s boot to being under Stalin’s.
Poland, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, and other nations at the crossroads of combat were gobbled up by the Soviets in 1944 and early 1945, while the Red Army idled outside Berlin waiting for the Allies to creep toward the Rhine.
Winning a war means defeating an enemy, collapsing its economy, destroying its political structure — then replacing it with another. By those terms, Davies averred, the Soviets won the war in Europe.
Militarily, the Allies contributed less than the Soviets to the defeat of Germany, he said. Politically, they failed to restore democracy to most of Europe.
Poland, for one, had staked its future on an Allied victory, and in the meantime suffered the highest civilian casualty rate of any European power. In the end, the freedom guaranteed by the Allies “never happened,” said Davies.
A small number of concentration camp survivors were liberated, but they are not symbolic of a liberated Europe, he said. “Their places were soon taken by waves of other captives [under the Soviets], which is often forgotten and rarely imagined.”
In sum, World War II in Europe was not a “bipolar” event pitting the forces of good against the forces of evil, said Davies. It was a war with three sides: the titans of Germany and the Soviet Union, and the Western powers — whose armies entered the fighting too late and too weakly to turn the tide against Germany. Even Lend-Lease supplies, he said, were “too late to tip the war on the Eastern Front.”
This is not to denigrate the contribution of American forces, said Davies. They were simply unprepared early on, came into the European war too late, and were preoccupied with the war against Japan. “The two tasks were too much,” said Davies.
It was also the Pacific war that forced the United States to look the other way at Stalin’s land and power grabs, said Davies, since the Red Army was needed for “the final battle” in Japan. (end quote)


Fact is Britain is every bit inapt as America, also I would add that the British are becoming the second fattest people in the world (google it).

 

So, we get to play that old tune forever? I think we should base our current status on how we'redoing now. The past 8 years were literally shameful. Literally. So, we have som makin' up to do.

 

As far as anti-USA sentiment goes; it comes naturally, from being the big dog on the park. Nobody likes the big dog.

You've done no worse a job of it than the Brits did. Arrogance comes pretty easily when you really ARE the #1 superpower, and it pisses off every other country even more. Every mistake you do make gets gleefully pounced upon, and used to highlight that you're really not all that. (Boer War, anybody? Vietnam, anybody else?)

 

well baby, i really prefer my country than usa.

 

I keep reading where alot of people not living in this country say we are not doing the right thing. that they are better off than we are. If i recall if not for the United States, how would WW2 ended. Would the French And English people be speaking German now.And no i dont have anything againts german people.Would all of you in Auzzie land be speaking Japaneese, how many countries in our world have gained their freedom due to the part of the usa stepping in and helping them to gain that freedom. IM just wondering about all of this, GOD bless the USA and all it stands for.mrs d


Why we're bashing the US at the moment is because of the worldwide financial crisis your greedy money people have caused has fucked the world ecomony.

And as far as the World Wars are concerned, learn your history before you put both your feet in your mouths.......If the mighty US of A hadn't sat on thier arses from 39-42 then things may have been hugely different.........and as far as Pacific War goes, you guys weren't the saviours of us poor aussie's and kiwi's, sure you helped, but it was a combined effort..........And then we come to those bnombs you dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people. They were experiments to see if the bombs actually worked, the war against the Japanese was basically over. The fight in the Japanese was already gone.

Bashing America is a great game with us lowly foreigners as we know it gets you riled...........You can make fun of Oz as much as you like as this aussie doesn't give a shit what you think. All of us down here already know it's paradise down here.

Also learning different languages is fun. My advice to you guys in the USA should start learning Chinese as they already own your arses with the trillions of debt you owe them.

 

Why we're bashing the US at the moment is because of the worldwide financial crisis your greedy money people have caused has fucked the world ecomony.

And as far as the World Wars are concerned, learn your history before you put both your feet in your mouths.......If the mighty US of A hadn't sat on thier arses from 39-42 then things may have been hugely different.........and as far as Pacific War goes, you guys weren't the saviours of us poor aussie's and kiwi's, sure you helped, but it was a combined effort..........And then we come to those bnombs you dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people. They were experiments to see if the bombs actually worked, the war against the Japanese was basically over. The fight in the Japanese was already gone.

Bashing America is a great game with us lowly foreigners as we know it gets you riled...........You can make fun of Oz as much as you like as this aussie doesn't give a shit what you think. All of us down here already know it's paradise down here.

Also learning different languages is fun. My advice to you guys in the USA should start learning Chinese as they already own your arses with the trillions of debt you owe them.[/quote]


Well.considering you are the offspring of generations of intermating between the offspring of convicts, such a response doesn't surprise me whatsoever. :excited:

 

Absolutely! After all, you gave us this guy!

 

Well.considering you are the offspring of generations of intermating between the offspring of convicts, such a response doesn't surprise me whatsoever. :excited:[/quote]


That sounded like a compliment, then how would i know being a dumb interbred son of a pommy convict...:excited:

 

Lady, most of these anti-Americans are weak and fill with hate, they love to blame America with all their problems so I say fuck them they don't count..

 

My advice to you guys in the USA should start learning Chinese as they already own your arses with the trillions of debt you owe them.[/quote]


This is sad, yet so true.

 

This is sad, yet so true.[/quote]

Yeah, but they need us to buy their stuff.

 

I am an American with no criminals in my family tree at all. I thought 69magpie's comment was very insightful. It makes a lot more sense than the nonsense one hears on right wing hate radio.

 

Most anti-anti-Americans are stupid and filled with hate. They hate anyone who criticizes the United States, and there is so much wrong with this country, including the fact that there are millions of Americans just like them.

 

This is sad, yet so true.[/quote]Let them come and get it!

 

Yeah, but they need us to buy their stuff.[/quote]


True, but I wish we weren't so dependant on that, as in making things in the United States, thus, there would be more jobs etc. etc.