you sure do worry about Palin a lot :excited:

 

Here's something I think Democrats and those supporting health care reform really needed to hear.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/clinton-urges-progressive_n_259298.html

 

I just got this email from David Axelrod and of course I'm forwarding it to everyone I know but I thought these eight advantages to health care reform are really worth having.

When you read this its obvious why the health insurance industry is fighting so hard to keep health care reform from passing.

And here's a video of the White House fighting back against the lies and misrepresentations that are being circulated to try and stop health care reform.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/71/?e=11

 

I really like the way President is willing to fight for health care reform. He's taking on two more "town meetings" this week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/13/AR2009081301914.html

 

stumbler hit it pretty good.

In norway we have a system of national healthcare. There's no hiding it IS expensive, but for every single Kroner (or dollar) spent on healthcare, more harm and suffering is protected against tthan any other protective measures (upgrading roads, sex offender laws, criminalizing prostitution, anti-drug measures and so on).

In the US, the republicans seem to have a dream of being able to do whatever they want personally, without taking any responsibility for what harm their actions do to other people (global warming and so on). Their right to do whatever they want can come at the cost of the lives of others. Why should they have to pay for other people surviving?

 

I think you hit it really good tortillachip. I hope more people in the US come to realize this.

 

Here's the counter to eight other health care reform myths.

8 common myths about health insurance reform

1. Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it: It’s a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.
2. We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.
3. Reform would encourage "euthanasia": It does not. It’s a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.
4. Vets' health care is safe and sound: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.
5. Reform will benefit small business - not burden it: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.
6. Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform: It’s myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.
7. You can keep your own insurance: It’s myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.
8. No, government will not do anything with your bank account: It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you – and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

 

And here's why Health Care Reform is needed.

8 Reasons We Need Health Insurance Reform Now

1. Coverage Denied to Millions: A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years or dropped from coverage when they became seriously ill. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/denied_coverage/index.html
2. Less Care for More Costs: With each passing year, Americans are paying more for health care coverage. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have nearly doubled since 2000, a rate three times faster than wages. In 2008, the average premium for a family plan purchased through an employer was $12,680, nearly the annual earnings of a full-time minimum wage job. Americans pay more than ever for health insurance, but get less coverage. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hiddencosts/index.html
3. Roadblocks to Care for Women: Women’s reproductive health requires more regular contact with health care providers, including yearly pap smears, mammograms, and obstetric care. Women are also more likely to report fair or poor health than men (9.5% versus 9.0%). While rates of chronic conditions such as diabetes and high blood pressure are similar to men, women are twice as likely to suffer from headaches and are more likely to experience joint, back or neck pain. These chronic conditions often require regular and frequent treatment and follow-up care. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/women/index.html
4. Hard Times in the Heartland: Throughout rural America, there are nearly 50 million people who face challenges in accessing health care. The past several decades have consistently shown higher rates of poverty, mortality, uninsurance, and limited access to a primary health care provider in rural areas. With the recent economic downturn, there is potential for an increase in many of the health disparities and access concerns that are already elevated in rural communities. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hardtimes
5. Small Businesses Struggle to Provide Health Coverage: Nearly one-third of the uninsured – 13 million people – are employees of firms with less than 100 workers. From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. Much of this decline stems from small business. The percentage of small businesses offering coverage dropped from 68% to 59%, while large firms held stable at 99%. About a third of such workers in firms with fewer than 50 employees obtain insurance through a spouse. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/helpbottomline
6. The Tragedies are Personal: Half of all personal bankruptcies are at least partly the result of medical expenses. The typical elderly couple may have to save nearly $300,000 to pay for health costs not covered by Medicare alone. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction
7. Diminishing Access to Care: From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. An estimated 87 million people - one in every three Americans under the age of 65 - were uninsured at some point in 2007 and 2008. More than 80% of the uninsured are in working families. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction/diminishing/index.html
8. The Trends are Troubling: Without reform, health care costs will continue to skyrocket unabated, putting unbearable strain on families, businesses, and state and federal government budgets. Perhaps the most visible sign of the need for health care reform is the 46 million Americans currently without health insurance - projections suggest that this number will rise to about 72 million in 2040 in the absence of reform. Learn more: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/assets/documents/CEA_Health_Care_Report.pdf

 

Please define "fair share", this term is bantied about by the left, but not nailed down.

 

Of course he's not saying that. What is it about conservatives like you and a few others that makes you want to make things up. What tortillachip clearly said was that of all the other services and laws Norway has their National Health care is the most beneficial.

Oh bullshit, on two counts. One is it is not a liberal trait or mind that minimizes personal responsibility. Second, that not what tortillachip said. He's saying from his observation Republicans seem to want all the advantages without being expected to contribute anything.

Yeah so why do you conservatives/republicans fight tooth and nail to keep from having to deal with these problems and only focus on your individual selves.

Oh bullshit again tenguy. We all pay taxes not just you.

No shit but you'd do everything you can to keep anyone else from even getting lunch.

 

That's "bandied".

Much more than they're paying now in taxes. For starters, how about we roll back the Bush tax cuts?

 

Yeah, what she said.

 

They also tend to view their accumulation of great wealth as somehow evidence of their merit and hard work, rather than the result of inheritance and/or the stacking of the economic deck in their favor. The truth lies somewhere in between.

 

Here's what gets me. I'm willing to pay more taxes to fix our health care system. I'm willing to do what ever it takes to make this country as great as it can be.

But I'll tell you what this reminds me of. It reminds me of when I worked for the state park system and I'd have to go out and collect $2 camping fee. I'd pull up on a camp site with a 10 year old Volkswagon and a row boat and even if the people had to dig through the back seat of the car to come up with the $2 fee they'd be happy to do it.

Then I'd pull up on the next camping site, with a $40,000 truck, $50,000 boat, and $200,000 motor home and they'd scream at me for 10 fucking minutes because they had to pay a $2 fee.

 

Republicans also overlook the fact that they already have had many public programs that they benefit from. For example, public education, waste water service, state universities, social security, medicare, an interstate highway system, fire fighting, law enforcement, mail delivery, libraries, etc. Imagine how much they would complain if they got a seperate bill for each of these services...

 

I don't recall anyone saying that the preference was for no government. Anarchy is never a solution. The preamble to the constitution states it perfectly:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

(pardon the links - they're from the site I copied this from)

What we have been saying is that the federal govenment has long been reaching into areas more properly handled by the states, and both have abridged individual freedoms through overreaching their proper boundaries under the constitution. What we want is a government rollback to its proper duties, and otherwise to be left to our own devices.

 

As usual prtndr, especially concerning this particular debate, you never seem to read your own links. See up there where it says "promote the general welfare"? That's health care in a nut shell.

 

Oh dear Kimiko did you ever nail that one. Here's a link to a new study which shows income inequality is at an all time high.

Here's a couple of out takes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/income-inequality-is-at-a_n_259516.html