Wealthy people can be some of the stingiest people on Earth. My mother worked for a time as an administrative assistant to a corporate executive, and he was always gouging the company to pay for his personal perks. No expense was too small for him to seek reimbursement (bridge tolls, candy bars, Big Gulp at the 7/11. He would arrive at the airport at 4:00 in the afternoon, stop on his way home for a Chinese takeout dinner (he liked P.F. Chang's), and take it home to his family. All charged to the company.

He also liked to send flowers to people on the company tab, and the cared would have his own name on it, and that of his wife.

 

Good link! Watching the extremely wealthy these days is a lot like watching the behavior of the First Class passengers on the Titanic. And in fact, we're in another Gilded Age of excess and hubris...only we may have already hit the iceberg.

 

I used to kind of idealize a pool hustler called Minnesota Fats. Johnny Carson asked him one night on his show if he ever shot pool with the rich and famous. Fats said; "hell no. Rich people ain't got no money in their pockets. And if you go out to dinner with them you'll end paying the tab."

 

I share your concern there Kimiko and just like what was seen on the Titanic I think we are seeing the worst of us as a nation. But it is my hope that it also brings out the best in us.

 

wealthy successful people are worthy of demonization especially when that demon collects welfare

 

You don't realize it I'm sure, because you lack the mental capacity for it, but what you just said makes no sense at all.

 

WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM

There's one thing in this debate that's been bothering me, and I've mentioned it twice: where is the pro-Obamacare side getting the money they're throwing into advertising and buying protesters? Who profits by a win? Nobody spends that kind of money out of the goodness of their heart - there's got to be a profit motive.

Well finally, we have some answers to that question. You folks can decide for yourselves what it means.

From the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/13/AR2009081301914.html

Here's the money quote from the WaPo article:

"The coalition distributing the ads, Americans for Stable Quality Care, is funded largely by the pharmaceutical industry and includes the American Medical Association; Families USA; the Federation of American Hospitals; the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, known as PhRMA; and the Service Employees International Union. PhRMA has promised to contribute as much as $150 million for advertising and grass-roots activity to help pass Obama's health-care reform package.

The pharmaceutical industry has pledged to provide $80 billion over the next decade to help cover the costs of the overhaul, reportedly in return for an administration promise that Medicare would not be allowed to negotiate drug prices with the industry."

This one's from Reason Online, a conservative website:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/135407.html

And here's the smoking gun itself, from Huffington Post (just to show that this isn't some right wing conspiracy theory):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html

Just wanted you Dems to understand who's backing your side, and why.

 

Now it's all coming together,those evil pharmacutical companies, the very ones that the liberal leaders villainize.

The ones that make the big profit that most on here claim as greedy demons.

I should of realized that as soon as Pelosi was running her mouth about them.

I love this shit:excited::excited:

 

I read today that seven out of ten of the highest paid CEOs are in the oil industry. The highest paid CEO made on the order of $700 million last year.

 

HMMM,,oil industry huh, was that in the U.S or else where.

Just think about ALL of the taxes he will need to pay.

 

here's Incubus' take on the health care issue:


health care should be publicly funded and available to everyone. we have to care of each other...for lack of a better term,,,Christ's sake. we are all human beings.

more effort should be placed on preventative health care as well.


the end

 

This isn't just bad news for dems, it's bad news for everybody in america.

Let me get this straight... Here is the memo posted in the Huff Post :


While i do not claim to understand everything in this memo, it looks like Obama is selling-out. Is he? the LA Times and the NYtimes seem to confirm/agree with the Huff post on this agreement, while the White house and Pharms are screaming that it is not true. Maybe Obama will back out of the deal.

If it is true, then we are truely fucked. We will not have a chance at lowering health care costs (from the drug-side) because the Pharms will have the white house in their pocket. Congress could ignore this and legislate however they like! To those who still believe our congress is still watching out for our benefit, I feel very sorry for you. Our congress has no integrity left and could care less about anything that does not get them re-elected or line their pockets.

I have to admit that I had heard of this prior to today, but discounted it. It is hard for me to digest everything i hear, so I carry significant scepticism. No, this is not breaking News, but now I will try to follow the story. thanks.

 

Oh for Christ's sake prtndr you think this is money. Its a drop in the bucket compared to what the health insurance industry is and has been pumping into congress and alleged grass roots organizations in order to buy the debate. That's what others including Wendell Potter has been pointing out from the first.

And we've already covered the apparent fact that Obama cut some deals with the pharmaceutical industry for concessions and money for advertising in support of health care reform.

Now I've already admitted that I was surprised and disappointed by that but the more this thing goes on the more apparent to me it becomes that Obama was actually probably smarter than the rest of us are giving him credit for.

He can't take on the whole medical world and knowing in advance how powerful the health insurance lobby is and how hard they were going to fight health care reform it now looks to me like Obama decided to divide and conqure and by God it looks like its going to work.

Ok so let's look at this a minute. Beginning with FDR and probably even before that there have been attempts to reform or health care system. What's happened? They been killed at the starting gate each and every time.

So here we are trying it again and one of the main problelms is that congress has already been bought and paid for on the issue. Both the democrats and republicans.

Obviously it would just be another dead end attempt but like I said above the more I look at Obama and what he's doing the more I suspect he's actually outsmarted everyone and has gone to the only practical strategy that can result in something actually getting passed.

It might not be what I want. It might not be what some in congress want and it might no be what Obama really wants. But no matter what it is if a major reform of health care gets passed Obama will be the first president in our history to have accomplished that. And health care can be fine tuned from there.

You know you're a little slow aren't you. I've already posted and commented on all of this if you would bother to read the thread. I've also given an account and so has Wendell Potter of the hundreds of millions of dollars the insurance industry is and has been pumping into this debate. Some of which incidentally helps fund those protesters you're so proud of.

But I will say again something I'm very encouraged about is that for the past 30 years the conservatives/republicans have always been able to out spend the liberals/democrats. I'm glad to see that has changed.

 

You need to get your demons straight Ace. Its the health insurance industry that we're demonizing to the point of even renaming this issue from health care reform to insurance reform.

Try to keep would ya.

The big money in buying congress is coming from the health insurance industry because they don't want to have to compete with any kind of public option. If we come out of this with at least some kind of public option even if its the cooperatives the senate is talking about we've still gained.

If Obama cut deal for $80 billion in savings from the pharmaceutical industry that's at least something. If congress grows a back bone and insists of being able to negotiate drug prices even better.

But in the meantime as I said above I'm wondering if Obama hasn't actually out smarted everyone. There's no way to get health care passed if the Pharmaceuticals, the AMA and the health insurance industry lines up against it. So he might have made a smart move by getting he Pharmaceutical and AMA to go along with him and they can gang up on the insurance industry. I, like everyone else will just have to wait and see how it comes out but that is what I'm thinking now.

 

MY MISTAKE

 

Let's review Wendell Potter, shall we? A lifelong PR flack, who late in life discovers:

a. That he's a whore, and always has been
b. That the company he's been a whore for is in business to (gasp) turn a profit
c. That some people have more money than others, a realization that comes to him while he's eating dinner off fine china in a company bizjet at 30,000 feet.

He has no medical or business training, he's a PR flack. But, as usual, if he agrees with you he's obviously the foremost expert.

There - by your standards I have debunked Wendell Potter, and use of him as a source is no longer allowed.

You still use more words to say nothing useful than anyone I've ever met. Good thing I don't bother reading most of it.

Dismissed.

 

stumbler? did? did you read your fairy tell theater? oh?

 

I am not buying any "appeasement" deal. Nor should you, Stumbler. Town hall meetings ARE having an effect and I think if we can keep it up peacefully, americans can express their will. I think Obama going to Montana and colorado next week is commendable. I hope more ideas are heard and help to refine a poor plan into a fine plan that doesn't divide our country but manages to provide a health plan for those who need it.

We can't have a plan for lowering health care costs if obama makes deals like this (alledged) Pharm-fucking debacle. That's my opinion (being the feds already have us trillions in debt to the chinese/mostly not this administartion fault but it shares a considerable responsibilty for it already). We have to be free to negotiate for lower prices where ever we can. For every aspirin, if necessary. Why go through this mess if we aren't going to get it right? I hope the health care bill fails if we don't try to get it right.

Furthermore, I know it's not a large percentage of health care costs, but malpractice insurance is still very expensive. I see no reason why tort reform isn't being tackled along with this health care measure. Did obama cut another deal with the lawyers? Or did Pelosi? Reid? please explain or tell me why we are not trying to save money WHERE EVER we can. (cause we're getting fucked no matter what; is what i think)

the $80 billion is NOTHING relative to the trillion-dollar-health-care industry.

I hope to hear more on this also.

 

Yeah, yeah sure prtnd, I shoot holes in what you put up and so the best you can do is try and change the subject by conducting a personal attack against Wendell Potter because you can't attack what he's saying just like you can't refute what I say.

So the best you can do is throw a childish little hissy fit. You're losing all the way around prtndr; this debate, the broader health care debate and the contest for the hearts and minds of the majority of the American people.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmfMz5Fq2yM&feature=related Jeremiah Wright is scum! can i wipe the stains from his shoe? thank you