Those on the right want to defund the public sector of the economy, and then to use its decrepitude as an argument that the private sector works better.

Nevertheless, liberals often overestimate the importance of money. One of the most expensive public school systems is that of Washington, DC. One of the cheapest is Utah. Washington, DC gets some of the lowest test scores; Utah gets some of the highest. I could explain why, but people will call me a racist. Because I have mentioned those facts, they will anyway.

One area where I would change public schools is in imposing more discipline. Students who are not trying to learn, and who interfere with the education of students who are trying to learn should be permanently expelled. Also, more should be done to control bullying. Bullies can be good students, but they need to be shown that their behavior is unacceptable.

 

Twist and shout.

Who wants to dismantle the public education system?? What is called for is accountability, not reconstruction.

As for health care, it is the liberal who wants to reconstruct the system, when simple tweaks can accomplish the same thing.

Good education and health care should be available to all, however the cost of both should be borne by those who benefit from it, as well as those who simply have more money.

 

Here is a link to the full health care bill, H.R. 3692, almost a 2,000 page document.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

And here is a summary of H.R. 3692.
http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/10/affordable-health-care.shtml


For those that think they oppose the new health care proposal before reading it, at least try to consider it for a moment with an open mind. After all, it should not be about politics as much as it should be about fixing problems. Just because you currently don't have problems, doesn't mean that that your brother or sister don't.

 

Actually my brothers and sisters did have lots of health problems, they either took care of themselves or suffered the consequences of poor choices.

Have you read the proposed bill? Or are you challenging others to do it for you?

The bill is 1990 pages long, yet the summary is not one page.

This is efficiency in action.

 

Deidre asked where could she read the bill. So I posted the bill. It's for the benefit of those that don't know where to find the bill.

Why do you have such a bad attitude about most things?
You are probably one of the most cynical posters on XNXX that I know of.
Did someone mistreat you somewhere?

 

Originally Posted by tenguy
Actually my brothers and sisters did have lots of health problems, they either took care of themselves or suffered the consequences of poor choices.

The Republican/Libertarian attitude is, "I've got mine. Get yours or get lost." Theirs is an essentially selfish, brutal attitude. It is an attitude of contempt for the weak, and those who needed for the coin to come up heads when it came up tails.

 

I think the Republican attitude is more like this DL : "We work hard for what we have. How about working hard to get yours."

 

Hard work is difficult to accomplish when you are seriously ill.
Also, there are many hard working people in the USA that don't have health care and are not wealthy.

So the circular debate continues...

 

This a very biased opinion of the conservative, it should be edited to read.
"I've worked for mine. Get yours or prove that you need my help."

 

The Conservative attitude that you articulated assumes a one to one relationship between work and wealth. Many of the working poor work over forty hours a week and barely make ends meet. I know several. Many of the rich inherited their wealth, or owe it to a few lucky breaks. I imagine you know several of them.

The terms "working class" and "leisure class" reveal a different appraisal of the relationship between work and wealth, and one that is frequently more accurate.

 

Do you think George W. Bush worked hard for everything he has?

At the 1988 Democratic Convention Jim Hightower said, of GW's father, "George Bush was born on third base and decided that he'd hit a triple."

 

Again you do what you chastise others for doing, you are generalizing.

Of those in the top 20% of the population in wealth the vast majority of them are self made, they did not inherit their wealth. If you subscribe to the theory that good luck is being ready to take advantage of opportunity, then it stands that these folks reaped what they sowed.

Of the people in the lower 20%, most have not gotten there through no fault of their own. There are a very large percentage who are chronically poor, kept there by events that were brought on them by others, not the least of which are the never ending entitlements which keep them bound to the welfare state.

There are folks who genuinely need help, some will need help for the rest of their lives, they should be receiving it. However, there are those who through fraud or deception, receive benefits that they are not entitled to, they drain the coffers of the funds needed by the truly needy.

Just as not every rich person does not deserve their wealth, not every poor person does not deserve help.

 

I have heard of rich people collecting social security. Sometimes we help the rich too!

Bernie Madofff will have free health care , room ,and board for life. He has always had money. I think he actually earned some of it, the rest he stole.

 

I cant remember, but you know that it was from some ''right wing'' study.

 

Ok here's the proof. It was our government that made trade possible. It was out government that facilitated ships, canals and railroads and land Ace.

Without our government and the armies and navies we would have ceased to exist about a half dozen times by now. Its been the government that saved banks and the stock market. Its been our government that made sure our food was safe to eat, that the products we use are safe. and our air and water.

Our government has been instrumental in helping Universities, private companies and even individuals invent new products, medicines and cures for diseases.

You know without our government we wouldn't even have this internet.

Now here's what's seems so dumb to me. We the people invented out government to do just those sorts of things and it always has and always will.

Sure our governments fucks up sometimes. And you bet there is some times waste and out and out fraud. But take one look around and it sure works better than private enterprise. And if it didn't then our government would not be constantly asked to bail private enterprise out when they fuck up. Look at the corruption and waste involved in just our financial system and Wall Street. Its obvious.

Government is our partner and protector Ace and it does a pretty good job of that. And the reason it doesn't do a better job is because of us. We really do have all the power and tools we need to change it and fix it. But you know we'd have to quit squabbling over the shit we do now before we could do that.

OK so now you show me the individuals that made this country great with no help at all from our government.

I'm sure it is Ace and I bet if I can find it I can pick it apart.

That's funny Ace we can say the same thing about our health care system but that's free enterprise and for profit.

And I agree there is plenty of room for improvement in our educational system but considering the task it is faced with, our incredible range of demographics, the way its funded, and the fact that we try to educate everyone our public school system is really pretty amazing.

Everybody I know is doing pretty good in life and none of them went to private schools. They are all products of the public education system and some of them are damn fine and successful people.

 

Can you think of a reason why a person who has paid into an insurance program all of his career, qualifies to collect benefits under the rules of the program and has followed the laws in his endeavors, should not collect the benefits he has earned?

So you are saying that Bernie should be not fed, clothed or sheltered while he is in prison? All the other thieves in prison get these basic needs met. BTW, do you really envy Bernie in his new digs?

 

I draw a sharp distinction between the working poor and the underclass. I have no sympathy for people who have illegitimate children and stick the tax payers for child support. Unfortunately, our economy is not generating jobs that enable people with double digit IQs and good characters to live at all comfortably. I do not have an easy solution, but you do not seem to recognize a problem.

 

My point is that anyone that works should have insurance. Not just people lucky enough to have health care through their employers, prisoners, and people over the age of 63 years and under 18.