I have heard that Canada sends their citizens here for specialized treatment, when necessary. The reason for this, however, is because there is not enough population in Canada to support Doctors that specialize. The USA has much more population and many more specialists as well.

 

If the United States had been weaker the United States would not have gotten involved in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

 

If the USA were weaker, we would not have our Independence.

 

This complaint in the Declaration of Independence, "He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us," was borrowed from the following complaint in the Constitution of South Carolina, that was signed in March 26, 1776. South Carolina's constitution complained that the British, "excited domestic insurrections; proclaimed freedom to servants and slaves, enticed or stolen them from, and armed them against their masters."
https://www.nhinet.org/ccs/docs/sc-1776.htm

When Thomas Jefferson demanded "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," for slave owners like himself, he complained that the British were helping slaves fight for it too.

 

focus-group tested talking points? I'm not aware of any focus group or talking points given to me, just what I see when I open my eyes, take off the rose-colored glasses, and look around.

The number of people is irrelevant. If people come here and pay cash for medical care when they are already part of a socialized plan at home, it speaks volumes about the difference in care quality and ability.

Often it's anticancer treatments, surgeries, and tests that are simply too expensive to be on the 'menu' in their own socialized systems. Think about that...

I ran into a British guy at Zale Lipsey medical center in Dallas who was here to have a brain aneurism clipped before it ruptured. He drove a lorry, which I believe is like a truck driver here. Certainly not wealthy, he and his family saved up to send him here because there were few doctors capable at home and the waiting list was too long. His doctors knew it was likely to rupture and kill him before he got the surgery but couldn't do anything for him. You probably won't find this in an MSNBC study so believe it or not, I don't care.

Not aware of anyone who goes abroad for care because it's better quality but plenty go elsewhere because it's cheaper. The question you need to really think about is WHY it's cheaper elsewhere, or why it's more expensive here. With insurance companies profiting between 2 and 6 percent, it's not the 'evil' insurance companies...

Ignorance is bliss I guess, have fun with it.

 

Originally Posted by Kimiko
First of all, do you have ANY documentation regarding the number of people who do this?

Oh, but the number is very relevant, as is the fact that you haven't documented any of your assertions. I have thoroughly documented my assertions that the U.S. health system is the most expensive in the world, that it is less popular among Americans than socialized systems are among the nations that benefit from them, and that those systems get better results.

 

Really? How blissful it it?

 

What's hilarious is that you say this as if it's a silly concept. The whole idea of LIBERTY seems foreign to you.

Actually, it allows ANYONE to opt out of the insufficient and unresponsive public school system.

The MANDATE is a liberal/socialist thing, not my idea.

Want a level playing field? It only happens by lowering the bar for everyone. That's just ...dumb.

The public school system has already failed, it just hasn't died yet because we keep pumping more and more tax dollars into it. Ineffective teachers are protected from losing their jobs, corrupt school districts waste money without answering for it, students graduating with half the knowledge of foreign competitors ...it's dragging our country down and you know it.

 

There's no question that you can get great care in the United States, provided you're in a position to pay for it, and pay dearly.

But that's the conservative ideal -- your health should depend on your ability to pay.

 

I figured you'd jump right on this. That way, the education you receive will ALSO depend on how much money you have...or how much money your parents have. Another conservative ideal.

But guess what? Most Americans like the idea of providing their children free access to a K-12 education.

 

DL, you are about the most extreme leftist liberal I've run into on message boards. You are a hardcore socialist, which is fine ...but I'm not going to change your mind and it's pointless to try. I sat next to that guy in the hospital and talked to him over the course of a week. He wasn't complaining about his home healthcare service in general, only that he HAD to come here to survive. He was floored at how nice the facilities and staff were, which I found amusing. This maybe irrelevant to you, which doesn't surprise me.

Your 'proof' and 'assertions' completely disregard the standing government services we have as examples of what is to come. The extreme cost vs low deliverable, the complete lack of customer service or responsiveness, the practice of determining a 'best fit' program and packing everyone into it. Go to the post office, a busy one, and see how enjoyable that experience is. Any belief that our doctor's office will not be the same way under government control in 10 years is gullible at best. You can complain all you want that the current system is bad but until we know the alternative is better WHY CHANGE?

Have you looked at the republican alternative? You can actually read and understand that one... and it keeps the decisions in our own hands.

 

If living were a thing that money could buy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIH1KccVlHk&feature=related

Hush little baby, don't you cry
You know your mama was born to die
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

The river of Jordan is muddy and cold
Well it chills the body but not the soul
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

I've got a little book with pages three
And every page spells liberty
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

Too late, my brothers
Too late, but never mind
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

If living were a thing that money could buy
Then the rich would live and the poor would die
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

There grows a tree in Paradise
And the pilgrims call it the Tree of Life
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

Too late, my brothers
Too late, but never mind
All my trials, Lord, soon be over
All my trials, Lord, soon be over

 

Good song.

"If the rich could hire others to do their dying for them, we, the poor, would all make a nice living."

Mordcha, in "Fiddler on the Roof".

 

I worked nights to put myself through school, took me 5 years to get a 4 year degree but I did it ON MY OWN. It took me almost 11 years to pay it off but I just did. Guess what, anyone can do this I'm almost certain such 'student loans' would be available for primary school as well. Then again, that means paying your own way and I have a hunch you don't like that concept.

Nothing is free.

 

You would not have been able to do that from the first to the twelfth grade.

 

Fine. Most Americans like the idea of taxing themselves to provide a K-12 education to their children.

You prefer that they borrow money and go into debt to do it. And if they DON'T want to go into debt, you're content to have a huge underclass of people without a basic education.

 

Sorry, emotion doesn't trump reality as bleeding hearts don't lead to sound or sustainable policy.

Issues like this should be dealt with locally, not by the federal government (with the cost forced on everyone without choice.)

 

There is no market for that ...yet. I'm quite certain loans (and grants) would be widely available.

 

Once again, I am a Democrat, and a social democrat, not a socialist. I have actually been flamed by stumbler, for being insufficiently liberal. You see, I agree with Charles Murray's The Bell Curve. I also think the black ghetto riots from 1964 - 1968 turned the United States into a Republican country. For stating facts about blacks, which again I documented, I have been called a racist.

All you and other opponents of universal health care have been able to come up with in this thread are undocumented anecdotes.

 

Do they really know what they get compared to what they pay? Do they know that the public schools which suck so much of their income are not turning out graduates with skills that compete on the world market?

People don't mind paying for service when it's a value. When it's not a value, we start to complain.

It's that personal responsibility thing, I don't expect you to understand or agree.

If it's an option and they refuse then that's their LIBERTY. Again, I don't expect you to agree or understand.