Now that's just plain fucking cold on your part.:twisted:

 

I take no one's word,,,,,everybody lies.................you prove it to me..................

 

No if we do that Ace, we'll be doomed to repeat it. And maybe we can't prevent it because people addicted to greed can be some of the most creative addicts there are.

But no Ace, I'm not willing to pretend this didn't all begin with Ronald Reagan and just kept getting worse and worse until it finally collapsed. And you know Ace they all knew it was going to crash, and instead of sounding any alarms, they all just dumped more worthless paper in it and invented new ways to make billions of dollars all in a greedy frenzy, that THEY KNEW was going to collapse and when it did the American Taxpayers would have to step in with trillions of our tax dollars because THEY KNEW we could not survive a total collapse of our entire global financial system.

That's pretty fucking low Ace and you and your buddies are not going to get away with blaming it on liberals. Most those boys were on your side of the fence Ace, and you're always sticking up for them.

Well you're going to have to get someone else for that Ace. I don't swing that way. How about girls and video tape of something?

 

Why do you suppose they wanted to do that?

 

What? That I lie?

 

NO, that you did not lie about how much better liberals are able to fuck, I dont believe it, you'll need to prove it to me.

Originally Posted by Kimiko
It's true. You'll have to take our word for it.


where were you when they were teaching mind reading classes?

 

I would, but then you'd be terribly disappointed in all those conservative women you subsequently fucked, and would spend all your time wondering how you could possibly recapture the magic of that one earth-shaking encounter, and why your life is now utterly devoid of meaning and purpose.

 

If we're going to be picky, it was a little more complicated than that. It actually had a lot to do with import tariffs and big government Republicans wanting to tax Southern wealth to give handouts to welfare Northern industrialists. Slavery got tacked on about half-way through.

Regardless, ask a fifth grader and they'll say the ACW was about slavery, and I was using the colloquial to make a point about how 5th graders would be taught in this hypothetical future.

 

Slavery was the main issue. Tariff policy was the second issue. Southern cotton growers produced the best cotton at the best prices. They did not need tariff protection. European factories produced better goods at better prices than Northern factories. Without tariffs many factories in the north would go out of business. The third issue was the same kind of culture wars that have been going on in the United States since the War in Vietnam. Southerners thought Northerners were cowardly and effete. Northerners thought Southerners were lazy and addicted to vice. Nevertheless, slavery was the main issue.

 

I dunno. Maybe I've been in the south too long.



It was still 19 Free to 15 Slave at the state of the ACW. While Kansas sent a pretty clear signal that the slave states didn't have anywhere else to expand to, I think that created more of an undercurrent of discontent than an imminent threat that allowed the politics to align in such a way that the 1860 election happened as it did.

I do not believe the North, at entry, was committed to ending slavery.

 

I'm all for it but from what I'm hearing while all this yelling and screaming has been going on over health care, the money boys have been quietly paying off congress again to keep from getting reined in.

And that is typical. Money almost always wins Ace, and always has. But I trust me and my friends a hell of a lot more than I trust you and your friends Ace. Because we just had to pump trillions of dollars into their pockets Ace.

I don't know about the other presidents. I just know about the ones I've seen and it was during the Reagan administration that they set things up to loot the savings and loan industry. Then they all jumped on the Dot.com boom and inflated that bubble until in collapsed. And then it was housing collapse. Which is a lie. People buying houses didn't have a damn thing to do with it. That was peanuts compared to what they did with that worthless paper that they just kept re-stacking and repackaging and selling them over and over knowing all the time it was all based on nothing and bound to collapse.

No Ace not politicians, knock that fucking bullshit off. Those were "business men Ace that ripped us off. It was private sector "businessmen" that had a feeding frenzy knowing three fucking things. It was going to collapse our economy, they would get bailed out, and they'd get to keep their fucking jobs and their bonuses.

That's not your government at work there Ace. That's the fucking greed of your fucking buddies out there in the private sector.

The fuck you don't and your still doing it right here. How got the money Ace, the politicians or your capitalist buddies.

And here's the height of conservative hypocrisy Ace. You try to blame everything on the government instead of the greedy motherfuckers who keep ripping us off.

 

What was the central issue underlying John Brown's raid in Harper's Ferry in 1859? He was trying to incite a slave revolt. That sent a shiver through the southern states, as did the election of Lincoln. Herman Melville called Brown "the meteor of the war". And let me tell you...John Brown wasn't too worried about tariffs.

 

if youre the best the fucking cross burners can come up with you wont be winning anything else in this lifetime. what a fucking limpdick

 

Okay. Whatever. The righteous North smote the wicked South, Honest Abe wiped away the crappy generals and personally freed every slave with a cross in one hand and a Springfield rifle in the other, and everyone got 40 acres and a mule and lived happily ever after. Fin.

 

Deidre, that depends on what you mean by "best." If you mean the most technologically advanced with the most modern medical procedures and the best equipped and staffed hospitals, you'd probably be right. But the last time I looked, the World Health Organization's rankings of industrialized Nations, ranked us 32nd. We didn't come in dead last but 32nd is a very shameful showing for the richest and most technically advanced country in the world.

The only thing in which we came in first was in cost. Our health care system is by far the most expensive in the world. Add to that the fact that our system is economically out of reach for a very large percentage of our citizens and you have a very strong argument against our system being called the "best" in the world.

I think that the chief reason for our poor showing is that we are among the last industrialized nations to still have a for profit health system. With all the advantages that a for profit system should afford its patients, you'd think that we could do better than 32nd. The reason for the poor showing is pretty obvious when you consider the most glaring disadvantage of a for profit system. That is that the system has a built-in incentive to keep it's patients sick and coming back for more and more expensive treatments, medications and procedures. If you think that what I just said is outrageous, just stop and consider this. When was the last time our system actually cured a major disease? I can, it was Polio and Tuberculosis back in the late 1950s. The cure of those two diseases dealt a major economic blow to the Health Care Industry. Since then no more cures... only the managed treatment of diseases through medication and surgery.

In America today, the state-of-the art health care of which we are all so proud is only available to those who can afford it. Those that can afford it may not think that is a problem but those that can't often it have to choose between basic necessities and medical treatment. That my friends is social and economic injustice and that is not what America is about.

We need health care reform. I'm not saying that Obama's health care reform is the answer to all our problems. It probably isn't. But health care reform is something our country needs and we should all work together to get the most effective reform possible. That's not going to be easy because the special interest groups are going to fight hard to hold on to the money they make off the suffering of the sick and disabled. The only way we can hope to win this battle is to stop fighting amongst ourselves and face the real enemies of our physical and economic health. Those that are reaping a big reward by keeping us sick, scared and disorganized.

HD

 

This is an intelligent and civil response.

 

I'm with King on this one. However, money was the ultimate issue. Slavery was just the means to that end. It was a combination of all the things that have been said. Trade, culture, power, and slavery but virtually everyone now boils it down to just slavery and it was never that simple.

The war solidified the central power of the federal government which we generally take for granted but it wasn't at all settled then. Constitution was only 80 years old at the time. States rights meant and to an extent still mean a lot more than racism. The southern states didn't believe that they the way the federal government was evolving was what they had signed onto in the first place. They figured that since they had signed on, they could opt out and that's what they did.

For better or worse, because of the war between the states we now have a much stronger central government than we might otherwise have had. As to states rights. Remember that right now 14 states are suing the federal government over the new health care legislation. So the concept never completely died and it isn't just a code word for racism as is claimed. States do have individual rights and there has always been friction regarding them.

The war was also a rich man's folly. The average southerner was dirt poor and had nothing to gain from it. The same emotional trickery that got people to go along with Vietnam and Iraq and most every other war was used. When that didn't work men were conscripted.

My folks owned no slaves and didn't give a shit about the rich planters. They mostly stayed at home in the mountains, worked there little farms and gave the conscription agents to the hot lead treatment when they tried to arrest "draft doggers" who refused to accept conscription. It was the same treatment they later gave to the revenuers looking for their moonshine stills.

As usual wars are much more complex than they end up being treated in history books.