The Confederacy had a law that anyone who owned twenty or more slaves was exempt from the draft. Thus, those who benefited most from slavery did not have to defend it.

Southerners who are nostalgic about the Confederacy like to pretend that the Civil War was not about slavery. It was, and the Confederacy was an evil country.

 

Well, now you're just being silly.

 

Nicely said. The response will be along the lines of: "blah blah blah socialist blah liberty blah blah destroy blah unconstitutional blah blah you're gonna pay blah blah blah takeover blah..."

 

Uh-huh. I'm gonna defer to the other guy because he said it better than I could. Due to my personal experience and hatred of the contemporary South, I get a slight gag reflex whenever I discuss the ACW.

 

I have said all I think I need to say on this issue. If backroom deals, bribery and no transparency is your idea of good legislation that only a mere 40 percent of citizens support I say more power to you. Pass it and then sell it? wow. When the people who wrote this bill are exempted that should tell you something also, shouldn't it? No one here is arguing against healthcare reform, just the opposite, that other 60 percent is against the government taking control of our healthcare decisions and if you can't see that glaring fact who really cares? you are blind like the rest. By taking healthcare out of the private sector and giving control to the government you are silencing progress and technology because the government has no incentive to do anything better, only cheaper and at a lesser value. Are you trying to tell me that a person who is responsible and works hard for a living is going to have their healthcare standards drop so a welfare baby who chooses not to work and has eight kids can have their standards raised? that is pathetic and not how America works. If you think this transformation of America under Obama is a good thing, check the polls again, he is on his way out. thank you

 

I have to totally agree and I think we can tell by just how quick they hung John Brown once they got their hands on him.

But they sure fucked up by giving him a chance to speak at his own trial. Thanks to professor Howard Zim and "The People Speak" I was made aware of it. And by the time Brown quit talking he was the one who was going to get hung alright, but he was not the one convicted: THEY WERE.

Not since Socrates, have I seen such a conviction proved more beyond any reasonable doubt.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/JohnBrown'sSpeech.html

Alright I'm not picking on you King Nothing. I'm not disputing what you're saying here. I just grabbed the fist handy quote on this subject so I can say the real reason for the civil war should never be forgotten or confused.

The real reason for the Civil War was to determine whether or not States can leave the United States of America once they have already agreed to live under the Constitution.

The Civil War was to prove States cannot secede from the Union just because they don't like the way things are going.

Lets remember that so we don't end up doing it again.

(And have you ever noticed how insane it is to quote a fictional character in one of these kinds of debates? But I can't resist doing it here).

The best argument I ever heard for the south not going to war seems to me to have come from Rhett Butler in Gone With The Wind when someone asked him if he supported going to war against the north, and demanded to know why when he said no.

"Because there's seven cannon factories in the north and none in the south."

Fuck, Gen. Custer should have been able to figure those odds.

 

I think Rhett's okay in highlighting the diversity of southern opinion. When the first 6 states seceded they knew they had no chance, so they appealed to Texas. Texas, not wanting to be the lone federal outpost, wrote the most pro-slavery article of secession in the South - despite being the least slavy of all the slave states. Realistically, these 6 states knew they couldn't win a war and were hoping for Virginia to broker a compromise. Virginia held out as long as they could to see who they could get a better deal from. West Virginia wanted no part of this nonsense. Andrew Johnson refused to give up his Senate seat when Tennessee seceded (Smartest American politician of ALL TIME - survived impeachment and softened Reconstruction - he got everything he could have dreamed of, he was the only winner in the ACW). Southern Illinois wanted to join the South even though they had never had slavery.

Suffice to say, slavery and rebellion were the glue that held the South together, but the motivations for secession were far more varied and appealed beyond the South moreso than history gives credit for, and the implications of the ACW went far beyond abolition.

 

Hi deidre, I'm not opposed to everything you say. I stated my position in my previous post on the subject and I'm re-posting it bellow so you can see that I'm not all for Obama's plan,... but as you said we do need a fix and the reason we need the fix is because the for profit system we've been using has served us so badly. And, I agree with you that a government plan will probably do even worse, so we need to find the best of both worlds and put together a better way of providing good health care that is available to everyone.

Previously Posted by "Hardrive"

Without picking a side, I’d like to state my opinion and see what you guys think.

1) There are a lot of intelligent arguments on this forum posted by both sides of this issue. The problem is that the insults and inflammatory language that accompany the arguments are self defeating and will never convince anyone.

2) Health care reform was necessary and well overdue. The problem is with the way it was done. The progressives have pushed through a very complicated bill filled with special exceptions and payoffs to special interest. The conservatives are complicit in creating this terrible situation because they opposed Health care reform but failed to propose an alternative, thereby reducing their position to that of obstructionist instead of leadership.


3) Health Care Reform has now been passed and there is no point in continuing to argue about it. What we have to do now is reform the reform by fixing the problems as they come up. Let’s see which elements of this bill work and which need to be restructured or eliminated. This is going to require cool heads and analytical thinking.


The last thing I’d like to say is, beware of lawyers and politicians. They are professional debaters for hire to the highest bidder. Remember, no political party or politician can aspire to high office without the help and support of special interest. Therefore, never completely trust or unconditionally support any politician or party.

Politics is not a spectators sport so don’t become a die hard fan of any party. Don’t mold your opinions to suit your party, rather educate yourselves about the issues and only lend support to those politicos whose views closely match your own educated opinion. And last, and most important of all; don’t ever be afraid to admit that you have made a mistake. Be willing to change your position if the facts so dictate. And, if a politician or party does not perform as you expected, vote the bums out and keep voting them out until we have honest representation that serves the public's interest.


HD

 

Thank you for responding respectfully to deidre79's comment.

Flaming never does anyone any good.

 

Alright get the fuck off the forum and never come back Hardrive. If you think we're going to put up with that much reason and insight in one post you've got another thing coming. What the fuck do you think you're doing? Trying to solve problems or something? Where's your irrational and illogical fear and hate? What kind of pervert are you anyway?

 

I have to take issue with this particular point. It wasn't the progressives who pushed this health care bill through Congress. Most progressives held out to the very last for something stronger, and supported it only grudgingly when it became clear that they were going to get no help from the White House. This bill was the darling of the moderates in the Democratic Party.

 

Sarcastic humor... one of my favorites. :laughing:

HD

 

I like hardrives post except one question. I don't keep up on politics very devoutly by any means but isn't every law passed in our country a very complicated bill filled with special exceptions and payoffs to special interest?

I was under the impression that that sort of thing is what drove politics in our country and got politicians re-elected?

 

Okay, I'll rephrase. Can we agree that it was primarily President Obama and a coalition of various factions of the Democratic Party that pushed the health care bill through?

HD

 

Yes, that's very true Jake, and also very unfortunate. However, this almost 3000 page bill is an exceptional example of this kind of political shenanigans.


HD

 

At first I didn't give two shits about the healthcare bill. I am in a income that dosen't matter. But a very close friend of mine I met was telling me about her son she had she was on state healthcare I figure close to what the federal goverment is going for Her son died at 5 years old from undiagnosed diabietes(sorry bad speller). That got me thinking Holy shit. I still don't care about Washington D.C the people there are out of touch with reality. Our country wasn't founded on having carear politicians. Ahh fuckit dem or republican either way we are all getting the high hard one and no kisses.

 

Whew, thanks, glad you got it. I'm just too vain of a writer to use the little emocons as a general rule.

 

Does it concern you at all that this really does not make any sense?

 

I dont judge women, racially or politically, I just like to fuck...........................and you are a prejudice bitch..............but I still love ya,,,,,,,,,,,ya want your clit massaged?

 

Yes, but massage it with your tongue...*lying back, reading a book*