You and I have seen the same things, and it is most definetly a matter of personal responsibility and committment. And there is such a simple test and such a simple solution. The test is, if you think you might be having a problem with drugs (alcohol included) you do have a problem. And the solution is to accept that you have a problem and correct it. It is the indivudual's problem, not the government's.

It is so easy for people to point to someone who is addicted and failing in life and just assume they were just fine until they came in contact with some substance. That's not usually the case at all.

I have also seen a great deal of destruction caused by overbearing parents, unhappy spoiled people and my mother actually got addicted to Alcoholics Annonymous. But the most hurtful and destructive addicts I've ever seen are power addicts.

 

i agree to certain extent.. a lot of people dont want to admit they have problems..

in a perfect world our simple test and simple solution would work.. wonders even.. but our world isnt perfect.. and it certainly isnt going to get that way.. so my question is.. if its not the government's responsibility.. whose responsibility is it when the person is obviously a problem.. knows theyre a problem.. and just doesnt give a shit??

in reguard to government control over drug an alcohol abuse.. driving under the influence of alcohol is far too leniant in my opinion.. while punishment for simple things like marijuana possession are far too strict.. ridiculous if you ask me..

i dont think the crimes match the punishment..

 

drugs r bad, mmmkay

 

Unfortunately the power addicts get themselves elected to office and run the govt.

 

true.. very true..

 

Vitamins are not drugs......yet!
However, if Big Pharma driven legislation to classify vitamin supplements as drugs continues, they will be!

http://www.alliance-natural-health.org/index.cfm?action=content.eu.Default

This link relates to EU legislation, but the same legislation is being forced through via the FDA in the states.

http://www.healthfreedom.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=178

If you use supplements for health, or if you have a medical condition that you treat with vitamins or herbs, then you may be interested in this 'back door' legislation which is designed to bring natural products under the control of the big drug companies.

Sorry if this is a bit 'off topic', but Stumbler's comment about vitamins being drugs is very poignant, and worth commenting on.

 

There's a great book on that very subject entitled Ain't Nobodys Business If You Do. The author, Peter McWilliams defines a crime as an act or action that harms the person or property of aother. Under that definition drunk driving is a crime because it does harm the person or property of another or at least holds great potential for that harm it deserves to be a crime.
However, using drugs, prostitution, homosexuality between consenting adults, ect. should not be crimes.
As an example if a person drives to the liquor store and buys a fifth of whiskey and drves drunk that is and should be a crime. On the other hand if a person walks to the liquor store and buys a fifth everyday until they drink themselves to death that is not a crime nor should it be.
The solution is still simple if a person is trurely addicted to a substance they will stop taking that substance one way or the other. They will either quit using it or they will die. It's a personal decision and either way societies problem is solved.

 

Everything in moderation IMO

 

i thought anything could be a drug, just depends on if you abuse it , and what kind of monster it turns you into

most of you guys are hooked on the porn, it's your drug, and now your a sex monster lols

 

For Fanfiction I'm sure. For some of the readers of this thread I'd bet my life drugs will fuck their lives with regular use.

The problem is which ones will take drugs and experience a living hell on earth I can't know, any better than you.

As for such weighty concerns of which is the greater evil.. drug usage or prohibition

An anecdote

There is a man who has lost his job.. his wife takes the kids. He receives an eviction notice in the mail and he needs a fix REAL bad and his drug fucked brain tells him this is the end.

He stumbles to the bathroom and his luck is in.. he can't afford even one more hit of heroine since he's already sold all his furniture..
but he has one sharp razor blade left...

NOW.. Just as he starts to sink that sharp metal into the veins of his wrist.. an apparition appears through the fog of his misery and hell like suffering and regret.. and yes.. it's Stumbler.. he has a question fore this poor sod..

"Which is worse you foking looser? he asks, "Prohibition or drug use?"

To find out how YOU may answer that question you will need to take an A grade drug regularly for a few years.

 

Oh my God Fanfiction you just make me laugh my fucking off with your drama and lack of logic. First your very own statements prove prohibition doesn't work if it did your fictional character wouldn't have gotten hooked in the first place would he?

Second, do you think I'm just speculating on drug use. No, I've done my share and probably your share too. The ones I've had to come to terms with are alcohol, cocaine and nicotine. By far the most addictive of those three in my experience is nicotine. I've managed to quit using all drugs except cigarettes even though I did manage to stop smoking for 4 1/2 years and it only took one cigarette to get me started again.

Smoking marijuana was (other than my wife) the most beneficial thing that happened to me as a young adult, and through its use my brain actually slowed down enough to see myself think (a very good thing in my case) and I also was able to progress beyond an elementary school reading level. That's why I smoked it every day from June 15, 1972 until I quit a few months ago to take this new job and the piss tests that came with it.

I've also had a ball with methamphetamine, LSD, mushrooms, peoyte, and a few other drugs other than alcohol which turned out to be the one drug I just could not do responsibily. I might even consider quitting smoking sometime but once I watched my Grandmother and Great aunt reach their 90's I don't think I want to live that long anyway.

The truth is millions of people use all kinds of illegal drugs and experience no adverse affects at all. Of those that do begin to have problems the vast majority realize they are getting into a dangerous area and stop taking that drug all by themselves with no intervention and no treatment.

Most of those that do experience detremental addiction also have many other issues that have to be dealt with, which more often than not, are the real causes of their self destructive behaviors.

Your example is such a sopping cliche that I'm frankly diaappointed in it. But I noticed as usual you didn't bother to answer the questions I asked you.

PS I am not advocating the use of these drugs for everyone, what I am advocating is for everyone to decide for themselves what they want to do and let other people do the same. If there choices lead them to trouble it is their own responsiblity do deal with it. But look around and you'll see we already do that, because there are far more wineos than there are junkies.

 

Thank fuck you're just a blow hard on a web board and the world isn't following your bullshit ideas Stumbler.

What's next from your 'logic'..?

Lets ALL drive at ANY speed we want on the roads.. I mean sure there will be victims

but hey.. I've got a bull bar.. so I'll survive. And at least all those that don't survive had their chance to "live a little" or some fucking warped shit?

It's a fucking great world this Stumbler planet you advocate, at least for YOU.

 

Who's blowing hard here Fanfiction my friend?

My logic on this particular subject is consistent and stated throughout this thread. You should try reading it. You might actually learn something.

I think your illustration in this case is asinine and I don’t see the correlation. But if you’d bothered to read even a post or two above you, you’d know that I would consider driving at reckless speeds a crime due to the potential to harm the person and property of others.

I advocate for personal responsibility and moderation in all things, drugging and driving.

Can you ever just discuss a topic without over dramatization and personal attacks? Is your problem with drugs being good or bad, or is it with me? I don’t really have a problem either way but it does seem such a waste of what has otherwise been a civil and informative thread.

 

My sister is a cop. She runs a meth break down unit. They usually do about 4 to 6 a week around here. They are told not to discharge their firearms if possible because it may ignite the gases.

 

That seems like a lot of labs. What state do you live in?
http://www.dea.gov/concern/map_lab_seizures.html

 

there is a truth in what you say..

a sick, morbid, apathetic truth.. youre right in the assumption that the inevitible outcome for an addict's addiction is one of two things.. rehabilitation or death..

but it just seems far too cold and cruel of a conclusion to sit back and do nothing while these inevitibilities play themselves out..

so allow me to play devil's advocate for you..

would you let someone walk around with you every where you go every minute of every day with a loaded gun pointed at your head at point blank range.. not necessarily threatening to shoot you.. not even giving off the air of a threatening manor.. but at the same time never telling you theyre not going to shoot either..

but there they are every step every moment of every day gun pointed at your head everywhere you go.. with you haveing no idea of whether theyre going to shoot you or not.. do you just let them??

 

Sorry I don't see the correlation here. I wouldn't trust anyone, even myself walking around with a loaded gun at my head, everyday. But what does that have to do with drugs? I own and use guns and am responsible with them. I have done the same thing with drugs and so do millions of other people.

The real harm from drugs is in their prohibition. If you think drugs mess up people's lives and hurt their families you should see what prison does to them. We build more jail cells all the time but not treatment facilities. We imprison more people than any other modernized nation in the world and it costs about $25,000 per year to keep one person in prison which is about the same it costs to educate a classroom of 25 kids.

Look at some of the previous posts. What are the drugs that cause the most diseases and deaths? Tobacco and Alcohol. What is the most expensive health problem and leading cause of death? Obesity.

And here is the real truth. Most people don't die from their addictions. They by the huge majority stop. And the statistic that never gets played in the press is most of those stop all by themselves.

If you look you will also find the horror stories from sex addiction, internet addiction and something that comes up often around here is addiction to this forum. All those forums of addiction as well as the number one killer, food addiction have the same ramifications as drug addiction but should we make them Illegal?

 

the correlation being.. that these people with potential to become problems are every where every moment of everyday.. sure they might not seem dangerous even benine but given the right circumstance the right situation and the wrong person at the wrong time.. could drive his/her car through your house.. or some one too drugged up to think straight could shank you.. take your money just to feed his/her addiction..

now i know you gave the example of the guy that walks to the liquor store everyday.. and its a good example.. but thats just one example in the sea of millions of possibilities.. the guy with gun pointing it at your head everyday may not be this guy on that day.. but there are plenty of people out there who arent problems that have such a dependence that could become problems.. they could be a guy standing there with a gun to your head not threatening to shoot but they could do it..

what do we do.. just let these loaded weapons walk about us everyday?? why let a potential problem run loose just because theyre not a problem now??

 

HARD drugs can kill in one dose.

Don't try to snake around with food additives.. your playing a game of releasing a bunch of cats in with the fox to confuse the issue..

Some people will take drugs and die. Right?

You wont care coz that's up to them, right?

I think that is all you have to say here for young readers who will have perhaps decided you are an example that because you took drugs and had a great old time.. they will too - according to percentages it will be the other guy who dies or losses everything or both etc. and NOT them.. great example Stumbler.

 

This is nothing more than the human condition. The people who walk in schools, malls and workplaces and start killig everyone in sight are rarely if ever addicted to drugs. People who commit road rage and sometimes even pull guns and kill people are not usually on drugs. Mothers that drown their children of throw them into the ocean are usually not on drugs. In fact they often claim to be inspired by God.

There is no way to keep some humans from going over the edge and the alternative would apparently be to put us all in prison.