Lowering the amount of time a light remains yellow will increase tickets. Lowering the speed limit in an area that can safely support a higher one will increase tickets. I am pretty much with you on your rant. Policing should be about public safety and not revenue, but if people really want that they have to accept the "socialist" nature of public safety instead of expecting them to operate like a business.

 

This x2

 

This presupposes the fact that all laws are righteous and deserve to be obeyed. While the first two are appeals to basic fundamentals of a cohesive society, the third one distinctly is not.

 

It presupposes nothing, except that there are laws to be obeyed in each instance. Whether you agree with them or not, or whether you feel they are 'appeals to basic fundamentals of a cohesive society', has nothing to do with them; your choices are to either obey them, or be prepared to suffer the consequences if you are caught not obeying them. Feel free to try that argument on a judge, though, right along with 'I demand the right to face and cross examine my accuser in a court of law!' I doubt either will get you very far.

 

I'm in Colorado, one of the first states to experiment with the installation of "Red Light" cams, many years ago. It failed miserably, because they made the mistake of placing a private company in charge of the network. (private companies running law enforcement is an obvious no-no).
Long story short, the company was eventually found guilty of changing the timing on the yellow lights (shortening time) which increased tickets and made the city + company millions of (illegal) dollars. The whole concept shit the bed, and was disabled.

The concept has returned on a national basis, with the cities taking care not to make the mistakes of the past. In Denver, the fine is a mail in $75 fine that does not add any points to license. (they can't because the driver of the car is not always the owner). I just got a letter showing my daughter running a light. You can actually go to a web site, punch in your "code" and watch video of it! www.Violationinfo.com

There is a site that maps all cam locations by State/City. Go find your own city. It is all you can do for now.
Maps of red-light camera locations

http://www.photoenforced.com/

You think this is scary...the next phase is using cams to verify insurance coverage on vehicles.

Traffic cams to verify vehicle insurance coverage
http://www.theinsurenet.com/

Camera/Video Company producing many privacy invading solutions
http://www.intelligentimagingsystems.com/

Most people have no idea what is around the corner. Just monitor your DOT (dept of Trans). It all goes through them. ITS is the mother ship. (Intelligent Transportation Systems)

 

You forget the choice to undermine and circumvent.

Appeals to authority don't really mean much to me.

 

After living in Germany for 17 years and having the most amazing fun rolling out in my car and bike, blasting down the unrestricted autobahns as fast as I liked, I returned to England and accumulated over 2 years.
£2000 speeding fines
15 points on my licence. leading to a 6 month ban.

What a fucker.

 

There are so many exciting points to address on this thread I don't know where to begin.

Speed traps: In the next county over they have only 3 miles of interstate traffic. 1.5 miles going north and 1.5 going south. The majority of the county is rural agriculture. On any given weekend night there will be 2 highway patrol in one direction and 2 in the other direction. Plus a couple of county deputies helping out with the DUI arrests. Any time or day there will be an undercover car patrolling the area. Right or wrong this is an obvious revenue enhancement. The single largest money maker in the county. Those in the know, go thru slow.

Crooked cops: One particular rainy evening while visiting a friend in a nearby metropolitan city, I became ravenous for Krispy Kreame doughnuts and coffee. The "Hot & Now" sign was on. Less than two miles from the donut shop I saw the blue lights of a city policeman. I know cops don't get out in the rain unless there has been a significant infraction. I had no idea what I had done, but knew I was getting a ticket. I thought a little levity would lighten the mood and make the rainy night seem a bit less dismal for us both so I rolled down my window and said; "How did you know I had doughnuts?"

He leaned in and asked, "Hot & Now?"

I just passed him the 11 still warm donuts remaining. He went back to his car and drove away. I have been jacked for my Krispy Kreame!

Donuts are trivial. I'm sure some badges have a policeman pinned to them with power egos and less than altrustic intentions.

Red light infractions: Yes, I have been T-Boned at an intersection by someone running a red light. I could rail for hours about the injustice I recieved from the culprit, the police, my employer, my insurance company and even the doggone animal shelter. I stepped from my vehicle, remained calm and tried to restore order to a busy interesction as best as I could. I was sure all issues would be resolved in a court of law. I'LL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN! The next accident I'm involved I'll stand in the midde of traffic and argue until they pay me to leave!

That brings me to the one true point I wanted to make - pay attention.

To those in law enforcement: Why do you allow red light cameras and speed cameras? Did you waste all of that time, money and training to be replaced by soul-less, push-button automation?

To those in the court system: Has you mental ability and work schedule become so over burdened that you surrender your authority to 3rd party corporate interests? Can you sleep sound knowing fines are levied and collected without judicial presence, fair hearing or legal representation?

To the tax payer: How do you condone the expense of even one human in our legal system, when each and everyone of them is more than willing to surrender their responsibilities to anyone or any flashy gadget? Why spend one single cent on any legal system that can be surplanted by numerous and ever cheaper made in a foreign country electronic gadget?

The very heart and soul of our legal system is comprised of the men and women that work to see that truth, justice and the American way is more than a tag line from a TV show. Only by each and everyone of us, on all sides of the argument, putting our shoulders to the wheels of justice and making them turn, will our legal system be effective. Without the hearts and minds of those dedicated to protecting the innocent, seeking the truth and punishing the guilty we may as well abandon all pretense and return to gun fights in the street.

I write this passionate prose as someone that has worked in government and legal administration at various levels and capacities. I still get a bit of teary eye optomism about our system of government and the rights and wrongs that we all argue. However, I cannot remain silent, condone, consent or abide by the score of pusilanimous individuals that make "go-along to get-along" decisions where life, liberty, property and freedom are concerned without looking into how much their own humanity is required to make this system of ours work.

To these people; may your eyes turn to Lima beans and your soul be covered in dust.

A gent

 

Comes under "...be prepared to suffer the consequences if you are caught not obeying them."

See "...Feel free to try that argument on a judge..."

 

Red light cameras are huge revenue raisers, its as simple as that.

 

So you can't just plan to get around or even change laws?

Your entire argument boils down to "might makes right." By that logic, the big bully is going to take your lunch money and you better accept it. There is no more proof of this than trying to reason with him and failing.

 

The scary thing is that they actually do reduce the yellow light time. It's supposed to be 1/10 of the speed limit I believe. They've done studies that red light cameras actually increase accidents because people slam on their brakes to avoid getting a ticket.

It's not about safety, it's about money.

 

Several years ago before they had to advertise that photo cameras were coming up, a small town in north phoenix with 3 total cops raked in more revenue than any of the other surrounding cities in greater phoenix by dropping the speed limit by 10 mph and setting up a camera truck. Yes the state is pretty fucked economically, but that doesn't justify dirty pool. It has been such a "success" that after 3 years away, I come back to find many permanent camera structures augmenting the technically mobile trucks. As you said they could give a rats ass about actually reducing these traffic violations. Napolitano says she expects it to be worth $165 million this year.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2180.asp

 

Ever passed through Ohio on I-75 heading from Detroit? They drop the speed limit from 70 to 50 at the border. Ohioans are cannibals!!!

 

Wrong, my argument is that there are laws, and if you choose to disobey them, it is up to you to be prepared to pay the consequences. You alway have the option to work to change the laws; until then, like I said...

 

Go through Ohio, Illinois, Indiana and California driving a big rig, having to drive 5, 10 or even 15 mprh slower than other traffic.

 

I'm sure there are lawsuits about them. I remember reading a story awhile back about a town that got the cameras. The cops started getting tickets too, which apparently pissed them off. They started driving through intersections flipping off the redlight cameras. I think they were removed...


I don't think it's right on the grounds that there is no officer present at the time. The hardware could be malfunctioning, the car could be unable to safely stop, etc.

The main priority should be safety, not money. I'm sure it ends up costing more anyway due to increased accidents. The officer would be able to make that judgment call. Many of the red light cameras are maintained by 3rd parties who get a cut of the profit as well.

 

I speed everywhere I go, I drive a fast car so I can sometimes be going quite fast. If every once in a while, maybe 2 or 3 times a year I get caught for speeding (about $100 - $150 fine) it's unfortunate, but a price I'm willing to pay to save time.

As for the argument of the cameras in America being caused by Republicans or Democrats, I'd imagine that the Democrats would have been much more in favour of this than Republicans on the basis than they're liberalists and speed is evil. Most other countries have a similar attitude to the UK in regards of the penalties on road traffic offences, as in intensely policed and peanlised with high fines and in some cases jail time for some offenders. It's the only way to maintain some kind of order on the roads I suppose. And there's the problem of escalation. If there's 2 intersections in a town or an area and say for instance one has a traffic camera covering all directions and the other doesn't. One day there's an accident at the intersection without a traffic cam and the question would be asked "Could this accident have been prevented if there had been a traffic cam at both intersections?" and the answer would be, unequivocally, yes.

 

It is easy to see why he rants the way he does. Look at his picture, he's still broken hearted about the demise of his Hitler.