Well, I was mostly referencing the level of antagonism between the two democracies of Turkey and Israel. It flies in the face of neoconservative doctrine which says that democracies are much less likely to engage in conflict amongst themselves. I guess not in the Middle East...

I'm a liberal so I want us to spread democracy but we should temper our views with a dose of Realism.

 

Negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians have been useless and will continue to be useless because Israel is just using them to stall for time while Israeli settlers grab up more and more of the West Bank. Turkey is just warmup for what Israel is in for. If the US goes into a depression and has to stop giving Israel billions of bucks, Israel will begin to feel world opinion, which is more and more going against Israel.

 

Actually I'm looking at the same thing you are and think Turkey could be a wildcard unlike anything else Israel has had to face.

For one thing Turkey is every bit as powerful as Israel when it comes to conventional forces. Turkey can strike back and strike back hard.

Second, Turkey is no one's lap dog and while they would like to be in the European Union that's about the only hold the international community has over them. And I don't think Turkey is afraid to go it alone.

I'm not sure Israel can bluff Turkey at a time when they've got trouble in Egypt and feeling the pressure from the US and other nations that want to see peace between them and the Palestinians.

It should be pretty interesting to see how Israel handles this.

I think Israel has just about run out of time. I think the Palestinians are going to ask for and receive independent recognition from the UN and while Israel is counting on a US veto of that recognition I'm not sure they can.

Also the Obama Administration could very well begin cutting aid and support to Israel which is something I've advocated for for decades.

 

I could be wrong but I've got a bad feeling things between Israel and Palestine are going to be heating up before and especially after next Tuesday when the Palestinians ask the UN for recognition as an Independent State.

That seems like push coming to shove to me and I expect sparks to fly. Especially if the Palestinian's bid for independence is granted by the UN but Vetoed by the US.

Personally if I was President Obama I wouldn't veto it but I'm sure we will.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/20119121463224416.html

 

Palestinians And Israel At War In New York Subways

No link for that one yet because I just heard it on TV and in case you haven't guessed its a war of words not bullets.

But still the staunch supporters of Israel were let's say a little surprised at the least to step off the subway and being confronted with pretty slick advertising billboards calling for the US to cut off military aid and support to Israel.

Man, are they ever pissed off about that.

Of course its all just part of the Palestinian's UN bid to be recognized as an independent state. Mahmoud Abbas is speaking in Ramallah today trying to promote the idea and will turn in the application for independence Monday.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/20119166105349125.html
​

 

Interesting. Don't you think that if you were President Obama, you would have better information at your disposal? One would hope.

I understand your sentiment, though. Independence for Palestine. Simple enough.

I think Obama has no choice in the matter. I am thinking that if he does not veto it, Israel will respond by invading the Palestinian territories, dismantling its provisional government and imposing marshal law.

Some would say Israel has already done all of that. I disagree. They have not done it overtly. I am saying that, if pushed, they will erase the boundary line and annex the territory.

 

So which part of "Palestine" is the UN going to recognize? The Gaza Strip, control by Hamas, or the West Bank with the Abbas crowd?

And while you are at it, tell us what your buddy Barry is going to do?

 

Everyone on both sides of the aisle seem to be saying we should cut off all aid to Israel and the Palestinians.

We would take a hit, definitely, by letting Israel sink. We have a lot of skin in that game. Silicon lithography, for just one instance. Most contemporary chipsets are designed there. Most of the phone chipsets in use today. Most of the tablet chipsets, including the iPad. All made in Israel.

Man. I don't know.

In principle, I guess I would agree with everyone who is saying, "let'em butcher each other" (said by those on the right), and "let'em work out a peaceful solution without third party interference" (said by those on the left).

But I just don't know. Too heavily invested, I think, to not be involved. Too much to leave to chance.

In some ways our dependency on Israel's high tech engineering capacity is even more dangerous than our dependency on Gulf oil.

I just don't know.

 

Now this could be an entirely different approach to dealing with Israel and the pro Israeli lobby in the US.

U.S. tax-evasion probe leads to Israeli banks

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/16/u-s-tax-evasion-probe-leads-to-israeli-banks/


Gee we seemed to jump from Israeli banks to the amount of aid Israel gets kind of sudden like didn't we?


Probably just careless writing/editing.:excited:

 

What peace talks, they're over. Now the EU and the US are trying to persuade the PA not to apply for recognition of their state. I am guessing they will say piss off, they will apply the US will veto in the Security Council and they will not get recognition.

Pull the fuck out of the area, let them sort out their Arabic and Asian issues themselves, when they are throwing Jaffa oranges and dates they will realise it is time for peace.

 

And surprise, surprise, now that the Palestinians are seeking independent statehood at the UN Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said yesterday they should go back to the peace negotiations. And of course to day the Palestinians are saying not without some pre-conditions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/201192072347528476.html

One thing is clear though both Israel and the US are pretty nervous about the Palestinians bid for statehood in the UN. For reasons that aren't really all that clear to me that appears to be something they honestly fear.

 

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is speaking to the UN now listing their reasons for wanting to be recognized by the UN as an independent state. Naturally the US media ran a little of it and then cut away but I'll look for a transcript later.

Also here's a scathing editorial in Al Jazeera calling president Obama "the first Jewish President."

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201192216365733499.html

 

Ok I admit I don't know quite what to make of this other than the ever strange relationship between Israel and the Palestinians.

They can't agree on peace. They oppose each other in the UN. So we'll have a prisoner exchange instead and the kidnapped Israeli soldier finally gets to go home.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/10/2011101235736403417.html

 

Welcome back, stumbler. 8)

 

Thank you.

Did you see this?

UNESCO approves Palestinian membership bid UN cultural body admits Palestine as full member despite US threat to cut off tens of millions of dollars in funding.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/10/2011103172551498181.html

 

U.S. Will Withhold Funds For U.N. Agency After Vote to Grant Membership to Palestinians

 

It makes sense

Contribute a few billion a year to Israel to continue killing Palestinians, taking their land, and totally controlling their lives. Clearly, Palestinians are not people while the killer thief Israelis are, so screw the Palestinians, although they have shown more character in a day than Israel can muster in a year.

 

Take your extra cash, and give it to the U.N,,I absolutely agree with the decision that it is against U.S. law to support the UNESCO now.

 

Sounds like the Jewish lobby throwing its weight around.

 

It is really quite like you and Fox News to totally miss the point.

The rest of the world has sided with the Palestinians and against Israel, the US and the West. And they also put their money were there mouth is and told the US to stick their $10 million up your ass.