Gee we seem to be out of sync with our postings.

There is no point in arguing what your ideas might be, but their stated mission has nothing to do with political parties.

The will support those who support them, if that means more Republicans support them, so be it.

It has nothing to do with their objectives to teach safe gun practices.

 

I'm a member of the NRA!

I'm no Republican Come to think of it I'm not democrat either! I'm an American that votes based on who's beliefs that are close to mine and have the same overall goals in mind..

Do i have a grudge? Yes i did! I was once point considered a upper middle class blue collar worker, that lost his job, home and everything else flows with the American dream.

I picked myself up dusted myself off and hit the grind stone again. Yes its ruff, but im still pushing an trying. Did i get mad and go out and open fire on everyone that had or has what i had or have? No!

Hmm i wonder why that is??

 

Props to you, I look at things the exact same. This economy has been rough, I started out in construction, got licensed and went out on my own as a general contractor, couldn't afford the massive payments on all my sitting equipment after 2 years and went back to landscaping. I feel like i've wasted this last 5 years since I got out of highschool. I have nothing to show except a bunch of bills i'm behind on and a partially paid off business.

 

guns

There was a male person that made a speech one time that went something like this. What do we need guns for we have the police and military to protect us so i am going to take them. That man was ADOLF HITLER in 1939. Joseph Stalin said that the people that say we don't need guns are USEFUL IDIOTS to get the guns. Any person that try's to take ANYTHING i own loses all rights including the right to life!!:*/

 

Great idea. Don't let the government take our guns. Ok so what do we gun owners do about having an average of 50 kids a week getting accidentally shot?

Is that OK with you?

How about kids taking guns to school and having them fall out of their pockets or backpacks and accidentally discharging and shooting kids?

That's not a problem in your opinion?

What about shootings like we just had in Arizona?

You don't see a problem with that?

I do see serious problems with all of those and a lot more tragedies, crime, and death that guns are associated with. And I think an ever growing segment of our society is going to get fed up with them and their loved ones getting shot and killed.

So if we gun owners don't start taking responsible steps to stop innocent people from getting shot and killed out of simple carelessness with guns, the government by eventual popular demand will.

I don't see how we can own guns and yet not have any of the responsibility that comes with them.

How do you think we gun owners should go about solving some of those gun problems?

 

Please: Link or B.S.

Criminals who illegally possess firearms are involved in many times more incidents than law abiding citizens with CHLs or permits.

 

And as the opposition clearly points when you add the accidents and the crimes together it makes a very sound and logical case for trying to take all the guns away.

That's the real problem. The Second Amendment can be eliminated the same way it was created. By popular demand. And if problems with guns and gun owners continue unabated that's what's going happen.

See you're a perfect example of someone who wants his guns but none of the responsibility of owning them. We gun owners might not be able to do much about the criminals. But we damn sure have the ability and the responsibility to be safe with guns. That's something we can do ourselves and make other gun owners do the same by our insistence because the careless and stupid ones make us all look bad.

So have you got any solutions for any of the problems I mentioned? Because basically repeating NRA propaganda does nothing to solve any problems. Its just parroting.

 

That is the problem with that argument. You can't have your guns and want to collect them too.

LEGAL, Moral, Sane, Educated, and Certified gun owners are much safer than the criminals and jackasses. If you outlaw guns for sane people the only people who have them will be criminals, because they don't give a shit about the law anyway.

Look at Mexico. They have done a bang up job there. Firearms are illegal there, and all that has done is set the Cartels at a greater advantage over law abiding citizens. Another police chief was shoot to death in Nuevo Laredo this week, by the cartels. Those fuckers burn through about one chief every two weeks.

 

Each year 43,000 people of all ages are killed in automobile accidents, this number has been dropping in relationship to the number of people and vehicles in the US.

The reason for the drop is attributed to increased safety technology, federal regulations on safety and driver education programs.

The number of children who are victims of gun shot wounds has also dropped, in 1993 80 kids per day were victims. It would seem logical that we should increase the education of children in firearm safety and have tougher laws regarding unsafe gun storage and handling practices.

 

I'm not sure I can find the source that used the 50 kids per week getting shot with guns and admit it was from a pro-gun control web site.

But in reviewing the statistics I can see how they come up a figure at least close to that.

http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html


There are two other things I noticed when I was researching the statistics. These two sites have two things in common. It appears to me they both have at least a pro-gun control slant. And the second thing is they are supposedly "Medical" sites; i.e. Doctors.


And Doctors can be a very influential group in the US because people usually not only believe what doctor's say, they follow doctor's orders. So if the "doctors" ever throw their weight and influence against guns and gun owners we could be in real trouble.

 

SSsshhhhh!

Stop!

Sanity makes Stumbler's head hurt.

 

Lol

you guys are crazy lol

 

Thank you. I went to DoJ and didn't find the the stats.

I am an individual responsibility guy. And I hate criminals with a passion.

I believe in education and responsibility. I also believe that when someone kicks in my door, they deserve two in the chest and one in the head. Once they cross my threshold my general good nature, humor and desire for a proper intellectual sparing ends.

I hate criminals because those moronic pieces of shit pray on the labors of others. I have been mugged and assaulted more times than I can count and have fought off every single one. I have zero tolerance for jackasses coming after me.

As far as I am concerned they are outlaws by choice when they kick my door or window. They choose to live outside the law, they choose to step outside it's protections too. At that point their rights end and I defend mine violently.

To me it is simple. But I desire the right to defend myself with a firearm. If not I am forced to resort to a lesser weapon, and that increases risk to me and my family.

 

Yes, but crazy is fun. You should try it sometime. :excited:

 

And the problem with this is its not the truth. I want my guns and don't want the government involved any more than they are right now.

But I'm also pointing out that if all the problems with guns and gun owners do is get worse eventually the majority of people in this country are going to want to outlaw them. And they have every right and the constitutional amendment process to do exactly that. And then all our guns get collected by majority rule. That's what I'd like to avoid.

Whoa right there a minute. See that word "certified" which could also be read as licensed, which doesn't rhyme with "register" but is close enough for the NRA to kick off a national campaign to create a panic over the suggestion and you start getting death threats from your fellow gun owner.

Don't you know all it does if we register, license, or certify guns or gun owners is it just gives the gives the government the names and addresses of people they need to take their guns away.

Its one of those "that's what Hitler did" panic attacks.

But personally I agree. I think if we require people who drive cars to be tested and licensed maybe gun owners should have the same requirements. And maybe be ought to get over the government is going to take our guns away mentality, and look at some reasonable restrictions to gun ownership.

Do you know what the fallacy is about this argument. Its that one of our most common crimes is criminals stealing guns from the law abiding citizens.

That's how another estimated 341,000 guns end up in criminal hands every year. That's actually another pretty good reason to outlaw all guns.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/more/facts.html

Bad example. Actually a very bad example right now because the Mexican government is involved in the drug war to keep drugs from entering the United States and in the meantime the United States is not doing a damn thing to stop the flow of illegal guns into Mexico.

They've had about 30,000 people killed down there since the drug war kicked off and they are really getting tired of the US arming the drug cartels they are fighting. Especially when a US cottage industry has sprung up turning semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic weapons.

The Mexican Police and Army are especially unhappy about that one.

 

Naw and don't play dumb as tenguy. We're actually having a productive discussion here and I'll point out the same thing to him I just did for you.

Right there is your fallacy tenguy. As soon as you say tougher laws on gun owners you incur the wrath of the NRA, and the even more radical Second Amendment advocates that claim this is the first step in the government taking all our guns away.

And a constitutional right is an individual right not a privilege the government can control.

So your hypocrisy is showing here. You're suggesting something that has been rejected by the majority of gun owners out of the sheer paranoia created in large part by the NRA.

We need to overcome that and stop using scare tactics and unwarranted panic attacks every time some government entity wants to have some control over guns and gun owners.

We the gun owners should actually decide among ourselves what are reasonable restrictions, acceptable levels of education, and even certification and push for those instead of resisting everything proposed.

 

The police and army are owned lock stock and barrel by the cartels. They hire out as mercs to secure shipments and USBP agents are not allowed to engage them because they are carrying pistols v .50cal armed Mexican Army M998 HMMWVs.

There was a shoot out in NL about two years ago that killed a quarter of the department because two cartels (Zetas and 13s) set the cops up as protection and the two police factions went to guns on each other, on orders of the cartel masters. The citizens were caught in the middle.

There is something called "Plata o plomo" (Silver or Lead). It is what the cartels ask police, politicians, judges and news paper people. It means basically, 'you accept the Silver we give you and become ours, or we give you a Lead bullet and ask the next guy'.

The population can't defend themselves because they are routinely shaken down by the cartels and robbed or arrested by the owned cops for resisting the will of the cartels.

 

I really don't think you understand how much I enjoy these play arguments while I sit here backing up my files

I argue for the fun of it. Some times it is because I see jackassery, other times I just want to be difficult, or I am bored. In your case it is because you told me I didn't know what I was talking about. So I have fun.

 

None of this is any longer true. The army and police forces have been purged, rebuilt, and rearmed. The Mexican government's war against the drug cartels are very real and very deadly.

And the Mexican population for the most part does not need to defend themselves from anything except stray bullets from fully automatic weapons being used on both sides.

But they make a very good point when the Mexicans say the US insisted on this war on the drug cartels in the first place and now are actually arming those same drug cartels with guns from the US.

I think they have a point.

 

Really?? Nothing like this would have ever crossed MY mind.