How is it possible to pre-ejaculate?

 

I beg to differ. Just a small point of Correction here. The Revolvers in the 1800's had devices built into the cylinders. WHile I have not handled a 1st generation colt SAA, Cap and ball revolvers had reliefs, or pins in the cylinder between the cap nipples that the hammer could safely be let down on. A six shot revolver made to only hold 5 rounds? Doesn't make sense. Look at most of the old guns and you will find a safety device(Not half-cock) that allowed for the carrying of six shots by placing the firing pin out of line with a cartridge or load.

Now as Old Provert said, His revolver is a modern day revolver with something called a Transfer-bar safety system. This system works in that a bar, seperate from both the hammer, and the firing pin, needs to be moved up into position on top of the firing pin (Which is held in the frame). The Hammer comming down does not strike the pin, instead, it strikes the Transfer bar which "Transfers" that energy into the pin allowing the gun to fire. It is impossible for the gun to go off without pulling the trigger unless there is some other defect such as a broken firing pin spring.

This method is mostly for single action revolvers, and some double action. On Smith and Wessons you have what is called a "Rebounding Hammer, which unless the trigger is pulled and held back, will not move the hammer blocks out of the way, therefore not allowing the hammer mounted pin to strike the cartridge.

 

More words on Safeties.

Another thing of interest is the designers. Firearms designers do not come up with guns that have no safety. One common debate is over the 1911 pistol. Traditional carry for this handgun is referred to as "Cocked and Locked", that is hammer cocked in the holster with the thumb safety on. Many people claim this is unsafe, but is infact a safe practice. Why?? John browning designed multiple redundant safeties into the gun.

For any non gun owner reading this, think of it like having an automatic backup power generator for your house that kicks on two seconds before the power goes out. What happens, The storm is raging, your neighbors lights have gone off, but you still have power, safe and sound.

As part of a demonstration, advocates of the 1911 have gone as far as throwing those 1911's out of 3 story buildings onto pavement while "Cocked and ready". Not one has gone off on impact do to the fact that the weapon has these multiple safeties that all must be manually deactivated by the shooter before the weapon will work.

That being said, I leave you with this final thought. Accidental discharges only ever occur with someone messing with the firearm.. It is impossible for it to go off on its own volition.

 

Thank you bg86guy for clarifying that for me about the transfer bar safety.
Ruger also puts the same safety on their single action revolvers and went as far as recalling any of their old style single actions when they first started to
use that design modifying the old with the new tech at no charge .
Also with the 1911 let us not forget about the safety on the grip that has to be depressed for the gun to fire ( I also own a Kimber 1911 a very sweet piece ). :excited::excited:
Did mean to drop out of the conversation yesterday but had to go to work unexpectedly ( DAMN BEEPER went off).

 

My Sig locks everything into place, but has no redundant safety latch. I don't keep the round chambered but I have also never misfired through operator error or mechanical failure, on any of the many weapons I have used.

My buddy's mother had a weapon fall off a shelf, apparently still in the holster, when she was cleaning, landed on a carpeted floor with the safety on and it discharged and hit her left hand.

There are weapons that are inherently dangerous because of their design. The M249 comes to mind first. That thing is an open bolt weapon, which means you can't place rounds in the feed tray until the bolt is charged to the rear. If you touch the trigger you will put 3-7 rounds down range before the trigger catches the bolt again. I have seen those pop off up to seven extra rounds, and that just depends on how tight maintenance and springs are. I have heard horror stories about them cutting lose in formations because the operator failed to seat and/or clean/maintain the trigger assembly (cure to that is you grab the charging handle and hold it to the rear, not stand there and let it run it's course through a 200 round belt). I have also seen a kid with locked and loaded M249s, safety off, with the barrel under his chin asleep in the back of a truck. (Some jack ass handed the PVT the weapon and told him to sit in the back of the truck, he had never used one before.) All that said, I loved that weapon.

A SAW in good working order is your best friend when things go sour, but it is like every other weapon. If you are careless with a kitchen knife you will cut your finger. If you are careless with that hand axe or machete you are using, you will take a chunk out of your leg. If you are a fucking retard and don't respect your fire arms they will eventually bite you or someone in your house.

Weapon safety comes down to individual responsibility, competence, and situational awareness. Nanny state bullshit only interferes with Law Abiding citizens, and since criminals don't give a fuck about laws they are placed at an advantage.

 

I've not only looked at old guns I've actually fired some of them. And when they first came out, especially the single actions, the firing pin on the hammer rested right on the primer of the cartridge. And cock or half cock and/or the hammer slipping was just one hazard. If you dropped one of those guns and it hit on the hammer it would discharge.

And that's also why most working cowboys didn't even own a gun let alone carry one with them because rifle or pistol there is no safe, comfortable way to carry a gun on horse back.

What both you and Old Provert fail to recognize is there is an infinite combinations that can happen with that gun under your pillow up to and including pulling the trigger in your sleep.

Its just a dangerously dumb thing to do with no clear advantage over having the gun NEXT to your bed.

About all I shoot is double action Smith and Wessons and I assure you I can make them go off accidentally. That's the problem with guns. There is no way to make them FOOL PROOF.

 

1911 .45 semi automatic

If we're talking about 1911 .45 caliber semi automatic Colt they were known for two things during their history.

One being extremely safe (for a semi automatic) and the other being extremely inaccurate shooting anything beyond 25 yards (I think it was). I really couldn't hit anything with one.

But a local gun smith we've got around here started converting them years ago and found once some of the safety features were removed the accuracy of the gun tripled. That was especially true with the safety feature at the end of the barrel. Once that was removed it was amazing how much more accurate the gun was.

For some reason that paradox has always stayed with me which makes me believe the simpler a gun is the safer it is.

 

Agreed on the position of the hammer, I have worked with those weapons too, and that is why I don't like them. I have seen holsters with a little leather strap that sits under the hammer, that guy was from AZ and made his own holster though.

Disagree on the horse back thing, it depends how you pack.

Agreed 100%! ! !

NEVER PUT OUR FIREARM UNDER YOUR PILLOW! ! !

You are asking for something bad to happen every time you do that. If you fail to respect that weapon it WILL bite you.

If you can 'make it go off' it is not an 'accident', it is a set up. I always viewed myself as 'the fool I needed to proof from'. Because of my fear of and respect for firearms I am extremely cautious with them, and take intentional steps to make them fool proof.

I don't even let the guy at the gun store hand me a weapon until I have watched him clear it, then I clear it again before handing it back.

 

I could not believe it when an old ranch foreman I worked with broke out out the old .45 he had. It was heavy, awkward, and that hammer looked like a pickax.

Then he put five shells in it (which is where the lecture came from) and handed it to me to shoot. The gun was so old he'd hand loaded bullets for it with black powder.

I'd loved guns, especially hand guns my whole life, and when I touched that one off between the recoil and the black powder smoke it scared the shit out of me. How anyone ever actually hit anything with one of those old six shooters is beyond me.

Try it all day everyday and I assure you just even the weight of that gun will begin to wear on you. Or if you have a rifle in a scabbard under your stirrup skirt it will eventually wear on your knee.

And then as far as safety goes if you're packing a hand gun in a holster (on your hip or upper body) and you get bucked off or your horse falls with you all bets are off. Even if the gun does not go off just landing on it could break your ribs or hip.

I swear to God I almost blew my own head off like that and never knew if it just got tangled up in the pillow case or if I somehow managed to pull the trigger myself.

But its not like I'm talking about this stuff because I'm some gun safety genius. And counting that one I think I've only had about three accidental discharges in my life and every fucking one of them still haunts me even though there was no actual harm done. But God damn it there could have been.

What I was trying to illustrate is that even though guns are much safer today a person can put the right combination of things together to make the gun go off. So one should never DEPEND on the safety features and treat a gun like it didn't have any.

I could not fucking believe that which is why I put it up. And what the fuck has happened to gun shows anyway? Damn it a gun show used to be one place where even the slightest act of carelessness would get you multiple ass chewings from sellers and buyers alike.

How in the fuck did that gun end up with a shell in the chamber and no one knew it? Like you said the seller should have checked before he handed the gun to the guy looking at it. And the guy looking at it should have checked the chamber as soon as the gun was handed to him if the bolt wasn't already open in the first place.

And that's what I've been bitching about on this thread. WE GUN OWNERS need to be demanding more responsibility and safety from our fellow gun owners and ourselves. I'm afraid guns are so common anymore they don't even seem real to some people.

 

This is exactly what gun control laws should address, gun owners should all embrace legislation mandating firearm safety instruction for all children and requiring proof of the completion of a accredited safety course before one can by a firearm.

 

Try telling that to the NRA. They're liable to shoot you.

 

I'm still standing.

 

IF DOORKNOBS ARE OUTLAWED ONLY CRIMINALS WILL HAVE DOORKNOBS

 

If God suddenly doubled your brainpower, you would still be a half-wit.

 

That is why they spent so much time with the low quick-draw and fire over the holster. And it is not like they had the same boresighting and such we have today. They had to 'know' their guns, until they were extensions of their arms.

The best example I had of this was the guy who made his own holster with the safety strap over his hammer. He showed up to my cousins wedding on a horse, with his wife trotting along beside him. He had a high riding .38 holster with a knife scabbard to the front. His belt passed under where the revolver chamber on the pistol was.

I'm an Armored Cavalry and Mech Infantry guy. The sissy boys in 1CAV are the only ones with horses anymore. Cram three guys into a turret with weapons armor and equipment and you have a new definition of 'is that your ass or mine'. . . A Brad is even worse, cram eight guys into an area that is 4' tall and close the sardine can.

I have a buddy who is a reinactor (sp?) and does that shit though. Personal experience plus his ramblings and you find a way, if your ass depends on that winchester whatever or that M240B with 1,600 rounds plus the rest of your equipment, you hump it where you need to hump it. No ifs ands or buts.

It is faster and safer to have it on your bed stand. it doesn't move when you do and when you are laying on your pillow, just put it down where you arm comfortably reaches and it will be there in the morning.

If you put it under your pillow you are fucking stupid and going to learn the hard way eventually

The gun store was not really an issue for me. The guy just took one look from me and he cleared the weapon. What pissed me off was the jackass standing next to me absently swinging the barrel of the .12 ga around.

he walked up behind me from the right, I saw the barrel behind my ear (I have good peripheral vision) and snatched the weapon out of his hands, and away from my head, and ripped him until he sputtered an apology and put the weapon down.

That only happened once, but is a trigger from my Army time. I was death on troops who screwed that up.

 

The guns are very nice

 

ok, I'll reitterate

Stumbler, The safeties have nothing to do with the accuracy. The root cause was a relatively loose barrel/bushing lockup. In fact, look up the early bullseye conversions done with the 1911's. They put extremely tight bushings on their guns because all they were shooting were 5 rounds at a time. Accuracy was good.

However, as the barrel heated up, it would lock the action up. It was an entire learning process that took decades with the 1911. Todays versions from Kimber and other makers all have the same safeties that browning designed on the gun, but they have models that can shoot 3/4 and 1/2 inch groups at 25 yards. I've seen most modern 1911's used successfully at ranges out to 65 yards.

Now back to the Cowboys. Most did not have 1873 Colts for a while. They made 30 bucks a month if lucky. Most Carried and continued to use Cap and ball revolvers all their lives. Wild Bill Hickock was noted for this. They trusted in them, and while some did have conversions performed, most did not. Ammo was not common out west and it was much easier to carry loose powder and a ball mould.

As to those cap and ball revolvers, take them apart and look over the cylinders. You will clearly see notches or little posts for the hammer to rest in/on, thus allowing for the safe carrying of 6 fully loaded chambers. This was the point I made before. Feel free to look it up.

As to the whole sleeping with a gun, If it is a Single action like I was talking about, with the transfer bar safety, you would have to cock the trigger first, then pull the trigger in your sleep. Those two steps must be completed for it to fire, there is no other way. If you were to argue that the hammer got pulled partially back, it still would not fire as the cylinder has not rotated into battery.

Me I personally sleep with a small double action tucked between the frame and mattress of my bed, handle up. I can get at it easily, And It is safe there, I have practiced dropping my arm over the edge to draw it. Safe, simple, and understanding the guns mechanics to know where to put it.

 

Because this is witty and original

Try harder, please