Prove it. Prove it, and prove the world's psychiatric and psychological community wrong.

And why have you involved politics in this, anyway?

 

Okay let me say it slowly for you one more time. The act of sexual congress is not what excites the rapist, it is the power and violence he holds over the victim. He could rape the victim with any object and still reach the same state of arousal. Your lame insults are just your typical response when you are backed into a corner and losing the debate.

Now if that does not compute the rest of the world will see that you are ignorant troll deserving only insults thrown at them.

 

I smile condescendingly at the accusation of being ignorant.

 

Do you also get the impression that like a child he is unwilling to realise he is wrong and will stamp his foot till he gets his own way.

 

And yet, you've adroitly failed to provide any substantiated evidence for your stance, which is entirely at odds with the world's acedemic community, and instead fall back on simply blocking your ears and saying [a] that I'm wrong and politically stupid.

One: politics has nothing to do with this, and calling someone from the UK a 'liberal' is absolutely meaningless to us.

Two: if you're going to deny the accepted wisdom, back it up with hard evidence. If you cannot, then desist entirely. Your ignoring of a couple of my posts which you have clearly been unable to refute has not gone unnoticed.

 

Smile, you find it funny that people are telling you that you are wrong, not just forum members but learned professors of psychology and psychiatry, what we mere mortals forget is that we are dealing with the moribund Simple Lover.

You ignorant, sad little man, not only are you racist but your misogyny is now on the rise again. I do hope you find yourself in the same room as Bubba and his friends, I am sure they will tell you it is all about love and sexual gratification and not asserting their power over you, but maybe that as happened and like the fantasies you read and watch you secretly enjoyed it.

 

How am I a misogynist for pointing out that rapists are motivated by sexual desire and that they receive sexual pleasure from raping women?

 

Do you guys think it's any different for date rape? Many of those crimes do not involve violence.

 

When are you going to realise that it isn't about sex, or orgasms but power. Drive that into your head before we discuss this any further, does that compute troll.

 

Oh Distant Lover, you're still ignoring my posts that you can't refute in favour of pointing out ad hominem directed at you.

 

Why Men Rape

Scholarly opinion on this matter is much less unanimous than you claim. I am going to post several excerpts from an interesting essay I found on the internet.

This essay is by [FONT=New York,Times New Roman]Randy Thornhil, who [/FONT][FONT=New York,Times New Roman]isan evolutionary biologist at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, and Craig T. Palmer who is an evolutionary anthropologist at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. [/FONT]

---------

many facts point to the conclusion that rape is, in its very essence, a sexual act. Furthermore, we argue, rape has evolved over millennia of human history, along with courtship, sexual attraction and other behaviors related to the production of offspring.
Consider the following facts:
" Most rape victims are women of childbearing age.
" In many cultures rape is treated as a crime against the victim. s husband.
" Rape victims suffer less emotional distress when they are subjected to more violence.
" Rape takes place not only among human beings but also in a variety of other animal species.
" Married women and women of childbearing age experience more psychological distress after a rape than do girls, single women or women who are past menopause..

Sociobiologists...emphasize that learned behavior, and indeed all culture, is the result of psychological adaptations that have evolved over long periods of time. Those adaptations, like all traits of individual human beings, have both genetic and environmental components. We fervently believe that, just as the leopard. s spots and the giraffe. s elongated neck are the result of aeons of past Darwinian selection, so also is rape...

only by acknowledging the evolutionary roots of rape can prevention tactics be devised that really work...

a man can have many children, with little inconvenience to himself; a woman can have only a few, and with great effort.

That difference is the key to understanding the origins of certain important adaptations. features that persist because they were favored by natural selection in the past. Given the low cost in time and energy that mating entails for the male, selection favored males who mated frequently. By contrast, selection favored females who gave careful consideration to their choice of a mate...

Since women are choosy, men have been selected for finding a way to be chosen. One way to do that is to possess traits that women prefer: men with symmetrical body features are attractive to women, presumably because such features are a sign of health. A second way that men can gain access to women is by defeating other men in fights or other kinds of competitions -- thereby gaining power, resources and social status, other qualities that women find attractive.

Rape can be understood as a third kind of sexual strategy: one more way to gain access to females. There are several mechanisms by which such a strategy could function. For example, men might resort to rape when they are socially disenfranchised...

if rape is evolutionary in origin, it should be a threat mostly to women of childbearing age. And, in fact, young adult women are vastly overrepresented among rape victims in the female population as a whole, and female children and post-reproductive-age women are greatly underrepresented...

in today's rape-prevention handbooks, women are often told that sexual attractiveness does not influence rapists. That is emphatically not true.

http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Women/rape.htm

 

Go away. You have nothing to contribute to an intelligent conversation, and nothing to contribute to any conversation but hatred and venom.

 

I respecfully disagree with you, Distant Lover as does Yale University and my other reputable organizations and institutions. Please see the excerpt below. Specifically, read the following paragraph that I quoted from it.

"One commonly believed myth is that rape is primarily a sexual act. Persons with this belief often unintentionally place the victim on trial. Her motives, her dress and her actions become suspect not only to law enforcement officials but also to her family and friends. The woman’s credibility may be questioned and her sexual activity and private life may be made public. Perhaps because of the guilt, embarrassment and humiliation, rape has been a highly underreported crime. However, throughout the past 20 years a variety of psychologists and sociologists have begun to study the psychology of rape and rapists. Their findings have shown that rape is a crime of violence, often regarded by the woman as a life-threatening act in which fear and humiliation are her dominant emotions. Sexual desire is less a motivation for the man than violent aggression."

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1981/3/81.03.06.x.html#c

Actually, some reasons why rape isn't reported much are listed in that paragraph too. :rose:

 

Motivation for rape

Here is more evidence that the opinions of "the world's psychiatric and psychological community," is not the consensus you seem to believe.

-------

There is no single theory that conclusively explains the motivation for Rape; the motives of rapists can be multi-factorial and are the subject of debate. Researchers have attempted to explain the motivation of a rapist in terms of Socioeconomics, Anger, power, sadism, Sexual pleasure, Psychopathy, Ethical standards, attitudes toward women and evolutionary pressures...

n 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim. [8] Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual Coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.[9][10][11][12][13][14...


The disparity between men and women in terms of the number of offspring means that males who can inseminate a large number of females through force have greater Reproductive success than males who do not employ force.[16]
http://www.wikiwak.com/wak/Motivation_for_rape

 

Well as it seems you are the one to first turn to insults it appears you are the lesser man, you have been backed into a corner, your mouth opens and nothing but a study by a biologist and a anthropologist, go read some papers written by members of the psychology community.

If as stated in that paper it is for procreation how do you account for rapists who attack the elderly, the prepubescent, how is the woman meant to carry a foetus to term when she lies dead at the rapists feet.

Or are you defending your position for more personal reasons?

 

Some more from the resource referenced in my last post...

Myth or Fact?

Students may respond with a true (fact) or false (myth) response.

1. The primary motive for rape is sexual.
2. Rape occurs only among strangers.
3. Women who are raped are asking for it by the kind of clothes they wear.
4. Victims of rape are usually young, attractive women.
5. Rapists are usually one-time offenders.
6. Most rapists are between 16 and 24 years old.
7. Rape is not planned but done on an urge.
8. Rapes happen most often in the street, or alleys in the early evening.
9. Most rapes are not reported to the police.
10. In most cases a woman can fight off her attacker.
11. A victim can report a rape to the police without charges being pressed against the rapist.
12. Medical treatment for rape victims is not necessary unless the victim is physically injured, i.e., cuts or bruises.
​

Answers

1. False. Rape is an act of violence with domination a key factor.
2. False. Rape often occurs between acquaintances or dates as well.
3. False. Women no more want to be raped than a person who carries money wants to be robbed.
4. False. Known victims have ranged in age from 6 months to 90 years.
5. False. Since so few rapists are convicted they tend to repeat their actions.
6. True.
7. False. Rapes are often planned but the victim is left to chance.
8. False. Most rapes occur in the victim’s home. Most rapes occur between 8 p.m.-2 a.m. and more frequently on weekends.
9. True.
10. False. Most often a victim is caught off guard, is probably less strong and probably isolated.
11. True. If a victim does not want to identify herself to the police she can anonymously give a description of the attacker and details of the assault.
12. False. It is important for the victim to be checked internally as well as having venereal disease and pregnancy prevention measures taken.
​

 

Sociobiological theories of rape

Sociobiological theories of rape are theories that explore to what degree, if any, evolutionary adaptations influence the psychology of rapists...

It has long been observed that some animals appear to show Behavior resembling rape in humans, such as combining sexual intercourse with violent assault, often observed in Ducks and geese. Sometimes an animal is approached and sexually penetrated while it appears to not want it -- e.g. it struggles or tries to escape. These observations of forced sex among animals are not controversial...

The idea that rape evolved as a genetically advantageous behavioral adaptation was popularised by Biologist Randy Thornhill and Anthropologist Craig T. Palmer in their book A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion.

Evolutionary psychology proponent Edward H. Hagen states in his Evolutionary Psychology FAQ that he believes there is no clear evidence for the hypothesis that rape is adaptive. He believes the adaptivity of rape is possible, but claims there is not enough evidence to be certain one way or the other. However, he encourages such evidence to be obtained: "Whether human males possess psychological adaptations for rape will only be answered by careful studies seeking evidence for such cognitive specializations. To not seek such evidence is like failing to search a suspect for a concealed weapon." [1]

http://www.wikiwak.com/wak/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape

 

DL: I could point you to several places on the internet that would have you believe the Earth is flat, the Holocaust was a total or partial fabrication, that 9/11 is a Zionist conspiracy, but that does not make it true. A read of that article makes me think a number of things...

One: it purports to show that rape is not about violence, but about sex. It fails to do; all it does is point out a possible evolutionary precedent with dubious comparisons drawn to animals and insects.

Secondly, it appears to be a straw man argument; it takes great pains to express how unpopular such a viewpoint is, and takes great pains to show how the motives for rape are being misrepresented, but personally, I feel that they push the opposing side to theirs to an extreme to make their own point more palatable.

It's also worth pointing out the article is ten years old, contains virtually no references whatsoever, and there are no assurances that the reproduction of the paper has not been twisted to suit the ends of the hosting organisation.

Lastly, I find fault with the paper for being too narrow in its viewpoint. It does not ask a question and find an answer; it presupposes a point and then makes every effort to show it must be the case. It deals in unquantifiable concepts like 'amount of distress' as if they have a unit of measurement, and mentions studies that it does not reference, mentions 'interpreting data' which it does no provide, and nowhere does it detail the method of interpreting said data.

All in all, it reads like the work of a first-year university student studying philosophy. The paper is thoroughly inconclusive, poorly referenced, and - to my mind - absolutely no match to the countless studies that have shown that there is a primary motive of violence in rape.

 

From that very Wiki page, DL:

 

I have already posted some of this, but I will post it again.

-------

Most rape victims are women of childbearing age...

if rape has persisted in the human population through the action of sexual selection, rapists should not seriously injure their victims -- the rapist's reproductive success would be hampered, after all, if he killed his victim or inflicted so much harm that the potential pregnancy was compromised. Once again, the evolutionary logic seems to predict reality. Rapists seldom engage in gratuitous violence; instead, they usually limit themselves to the force required to subdue or control their victims. A survey by one of us (Palmer), of volunteers at rape crisis centers, found that only 15 percent of the victims whom the volunteers had encountered reported having been beaten in excess of what was needed to accomplish the rape...

Young women also need a new kind of education. For example, in today's rape-prevention handbooks, women are often told that sexual attractiveness does not influence rapists. That is emphatically not true. Because a woman is considered most attractive when her fertility is at its peak, from her mid-teens through her twenties, tactics that focus on protecting women in those age groups will be most effective in reducing the overall frequency of rape.

http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Women/rape.htm