I respectfully disagree in that Distant Lover is absolutely downplaying the effects of rape on victims as well as the violence involved in such crimes. Furthermore, the evidence is in Distant Lover's opinions which are based on purposely distorted conclusions derived from his shallow biased research.

I have my opinion, X-orion and you are entitled to your opinion. Also, speaking the truth is not libel (written form of slander).:rose:

 

And I have my opinion.

Quite honestly, Carrie Joslin, you are disappointing. Because you have a Stanford degree I would expect you to have the intelligence to understand what my opinions really are.

However, I would like for you to quote something I wrote that indicates that I downplay the effects of rape on the victims. If I wrote anything that might give any suspicion of such an attitude, I did not express myself clearly enough, and I apologize.

 

His point that women are rarely beaten more than 'required' to carry out the rape appears to be true, from what I've read, so if that's your idea of how he's 'downplaying' the violence, then your idea is flawed.

He has made absolutely no discussion of the violence involved; in fact, I have barely touched upon it whatsoever myself - though you may disagree. I suspect that we can all - DL included - agree that rape is violent, abhorrent, traumatic, and utterly deplorable. The only point on which there will be differences of opinion is in our beliefs of the motives of the act.

In terms of recognising and deploring the violence involved, agreement on the motives is completely irrelevant.

And, in an interesting turn of events, I had this message from a friend of mine who is a pyschology and criminal justice double major and, according to their textbook which they inform me is the following: the seventh edition of "Half the Human Experience," by Hyde [with the section on rape beginning at 393]: [her words] The "rape is a crime of power" thing is actually a myth. It's one of those widely-held beliefs that is actually untrue. Somewhere along the line, someone started saying that, and later research that disproves this theory has been ignored for whatever reason. That's not to say that rape is never a crime of power; it most certainly is, especially in prison settings, but research shows that people actually rape for a myriad of reasons, including power and sexual arousal.

The plot, Carrie, thickens, and Distant Lover may not be as wrong as you would like to have it.

 

I am tired of discussing the racism and sexism in here. If people don't see it or choose to acknowledge it is sad, just sad.

My opinion of Obscene Cupcake and the Mexican jokes was one of disgust. You know, two women in here other than me were offended and it was like so what.

Well, if people don't see how Distant Lover is bringing gestures into this discussion in an attempt to make the rapist's motivation look like more of natural sexual attraction than an act of violence they are blind. :rose:

 

I think Susan Brownmiller is responsible for that liberal platitude. I call it a "liberal" platitude because Susan Brownmiller was active in left wing causes.

"The feminist theory of rape is summarized by Susan Brownmiller's statement: "rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear".[17] It asserts that some feminists see the male domination of female in socio-political and economic domains as the ultimate cause of most rapes, and considers male-female rape to be a crime of power that has little or nothing to do with sex itself.[16]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_for_rape

 

Where is the contradiction between a natural sexual attraction and an act of violence? Rape is both.

 

If I thought he was downplaying the affects of rape and violence I would have jumped all over him, he at no point as played it down, he acknowledges the distress the victim suffers and that the rapist should be treated harshly. So knock off the personal attack.

 

It is the violence involved that appears to be what Distant Lover is attempting to downplay. I think in his choice of motivation that applies to crimes is his way of doing this.

LOL yes, the plot thickens...

 

There's compelling evidence to suggest that rape is an evolved biological response; whether or not you consider that man is a 'higher' creature, rape occurs in other spheres of the animal kingdom with impunity.

Is violent behaviour learned, or is it inante? Are some men born rapists, or are they all made rapists by childhood traumas? If some are born, then it is reasonable to suppose that somewhere in their genetic makeup is a combination that makes them rapists? Is that a mutation, or an evolved strategy to further their genetic material? If it is, is it reasonable to suppose they would have been successful enough to the degree that, in all of us, there is a trace of a rapist?

Difficult questions, Carrie, and running away is not the answer.

Too many people are too quick to discount Distant Lover simply because of who he is, and the reputation he holds. No matter how distasteful you see his point to be, you must investigate it before dismissing it, and you haven't.

All he has brought to this discussion is derision of the school of thought that proposes rape is about power, and countering it with the other major school of thought, which is that rape is a sociobiological evolved response present at a genetic level. You have resorted to slander.

Why?

 

Then you're reading what you want to read, not what it's in front of you. He's asked you to quote where he downplays it, and now I'm asking you too. Nowhere has he done this.

 

That is pushing it into dangerous territory, if I were you I would retract that statement, unless of course you have proof.

He is not downplaying anything, he is stating that rape occurs for a different reason, not that for lust it is different.

 

The only thing I might have said that could have given you the idea that I downplay the severity of rape is when I quoted a social scientist as pointing out that rapists rarely use more violence than necessary to achieve their goal.

I quoted that in response to richief's claim that rapists cannot be motivated by sexual desire because they frequently murder their victims. The truth of the matter is that they rarely do. The main damage of rape is not physical, but emotional. I have never suggested anything otherwise. I have never said that women ever deserve to be raped.

 

As an aside, I think if anyone was ever in doubt of Richief's intellectual integrity, the fact that he is defending Distant Lover for intellectual reasons in spite of the fact he'd quite like to shoot the man speaks absolute volumes.

 

Ok... I will retract on the basis of lack of proof. Admittedly, I'm leaning hard on Distant Lover's racism history here too. :rose:

 

I have my suspicions but for now I'll retract as I said to Rich.

 

Why, if you feel the need to attack his views on race do it in the right place and don't muddy the waters here, next thing you know we will be discussing the veracity of certain members.

 

Suspicions of what? That he's Distant Lover? That he's me? That we're all one? What on Earth could you possibly 'suspect'?

 

Shooting him is a bit harsh, but I wouldn't take my foot off his head if he was drowning.

 

Distant Lover, it was the post below and your statement to X-orion about liberal platitude that put up a flag with me. I will let it go for now as I said and retract what I said about you downplaying the violence.